No go areas or events?

Sinn Fein Councillor Peter Anderson has questioned a police presence at an unnotified parade by dissident republicans. A gang of youths attacked police with bricks and petrol bombs. He said:

The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area.

  • Ziznivy

    “The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area”

    Perhaps they were policing it.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    “Sinn Fein Councillor Peter Anderson has questioned a police presence at an unnotified parade by dissident republicans. A gang of youths attacked police with bricks and petrol bombs.”

    There is always some idiot who doesn’t get the memo, isn’t there, Mr. Anderson? Or does the consigiere consider petrol bombs an ordinary fashion accessory?

  • Dr Strangelove

    “The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area”

    Maybe they were handing out application forms.

  • slug

    “The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area.”

    LOL!

  • Surely anyone who now acknowledges the legitmacy of the police would recognise that they should be applying the law equally in all areas, in which case what point is this SF councillor trying make about their presence in a ‘republican area’? Does an Ireland of Equals not mean that all people in all areas should be treated, well, equally?

  • Dr. S-

    “Maybe they were handing out application forms”

    or paycheques 😉

  • Gerry Lvs Castro

    “The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area”

    ”Hello Peter? It’s Gerry here. You’re fired.”

  • Bole

    As hard as they try Gerry and Martin just cant control the big mouths like this clown Anderson and Gildernew in their party.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Bole: “As hard as they try Gerry and Martin just cant control the big mouths like this clown Anderson and Gildernew in their party. ”

    Yeah, but that’s just the human condition… regardless of how disciplined a group is, there is always a handful of crack-pots willing to sound off at the drop of hat.

  • Nickyg

    Perhaps Mr Anderson took the opportunity to point out the obvious. Could there have been a decision by the PSNI at some level in the locality to have a wee pull the strings of the puppets like El Mat and the usual suspects who have always moved so predictably when prompted?

    At best it was an ill advised policing decision, at worst it was a deliberate attempt at provoking just such a kerfufle as this.

    Dissidents will eventually fade as they lose the arguments. No one should be in any doubt that there are also “dissidents” within the ranks of the police who will still want to have a little sly nip and stoke the dying embers of their dirtly little war just for another day here and there.

    It’s naive to believe otherwise. Whilst the state systematically colluded with Loyalists, the self same pontificators always did swallow the simple, uncluttered official reality hook, line and sinker. So what are SF do, stick their fingers in their ears and effectively give these guys carte blanche? We saw what that approach by El Mats predecessors produced.

    The police have to earn the allegiance of the people, not the other way round. SF are entitled to raise any reasonable criticism in relation to the police, and it does not affect thier commitment to make a success of those structures. Or have the SDLP and Unionists on the Policing Board heretofore merely been handing out awards and certificates?

    Shall we apply the same reasoning to our new ministers and have any criticism of their actions branded treasonous.

  • Nicky-

    Can you address the points raised by me earlier in the thread vis-a-vis equal policing of all areas?

    It’s perfectly legitimate to criticise the police when the need arises. However, what the SF councillor in question is suggesting is that police should stay away from ‘republican areas’ and events per se– that’s an entirely different kettle of fish, and one which prompts the question- ‘Why should these people be treated any differently from anyone else?’

    Regardless of the details of this particular incident, it’s not unheard of for police to accompany parades- I witnessed a small orange march being tailed by uniformed officers just two days ago. Additionally, the fact that the dissident republican parade mentioned hadn’t been approved just increased the likelihood of a police presence.

  • Bole

    Too true Dread Cthulhu, and as the last few days have shown, the DUP also have their own fair share of big-mouth crack pots!

  • “SF are entitled to raise any reasonable criticism in relation to the police, and it does not affect thier commitment to make a success of those structures.”

    And this was a “reasonable criticism”?

  • Bemused

    Unbelievable. When are the Shinners going to start dealing with half-wits like this Anderson flat-earther? The party should now be hounded publicly to either condemn or endorse his preposterous comments. Scum like Anderson genuinely seem to think that they have the right to live in some lawless netherworld where Republicans are only policed when they want to be policed.

  • Nickyg

    In fairness, I think the “Republican parade in a Republican area” comment has been siezed upon and wilfully taken to mean something not intended.

    The essence of Mr Andersons comments were, quite simply “Look everyone knows those marchers didn’t agree with the policing decision, they still don’t accept their legitimacy. They are marching around in thier own little patch so why are their antoginizers in cheif deliberately making a policing decision they know will be counter productive.” It’s a red rag to a bull. Stupid. In my opinion deleiberately so. Anyone ignoring these realities should perhaps come and live in the real world.

    Objectively, can any sane person say that it would not have been a better policing decision to let this thing run it’s course for an hour or two, where the only people who would have heard of it would have been the participants themselves? Anyone?

    Unless of course there was something else at play. It seems, at the very least, possible.

  • Bemused

    Here’s a clue NickyG – the parade was unnotified i.e., illegal. Presumably you’d be happy for all sorts of loyalist scum to have whatever sort of obnoxious gatherings they feel like having without any lawful authority just so long as these parades/marches/whatever consist of people ‘marching around their own little patch’? Presumably you’d be happy for all sorts of illegal loyalist nonsense to be allowed to ‘run it’s course for an hour or two’? Like fuck you would. Grow up – you and you’re entitlement complex-suffering ilk are a boil on the arse of northern society.

  • devil’s advocate

    Lads and lasses, could I just point out that there’s been a load of slagging about OO trying to get a LEGAL march down at Garvaghy on another thread but there’s no comment about this being an ILLEGAL parade. Level playing field please!! If prods can’t march legally then how is it equitable if republicans march illegally? Mebbe the OO shd just leg it down the Garvaghy Road and hope no one notices.
    Nickyg- are you mad? doesn’t matter if they’re in their own area! Reality is SF have decied to accept rulwe of law – ALL of it, not just the bits that suit you

  • SuperSoupy

    Before people go nuts on the ‘illegal parade’ stuff:

    “They had planned to gather at the gates of the City Cemetery before making their way to the republican plot to hold an Easter Rising commemoration”

    That’s not a parade, that’s walking from one area of private property to another.

    The petrol bombs, stone-throwing and reasons behind it are definitely the issue not this ‘illegal parade’ nonsense.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    nickyg: “In fairness, I think the “Republican parade in a Republican area” comment has been siezed upon and wilfully taken to mean something not intended. ”

    Really? Let’s take a look at your analysis…

    nickyg: “The essence of Mr Andersons comments were, quite simply “Look everyone knows those marchers didn’t agree with the policing decision, they still don’t accept their legitimacy. They are marching around in thier own little patch so why are their antoginizers in cheif deliberately making a policing decision they know will be counter productive.””

    First of all, as a politician and, putatively, a leader, Mr. Anderson should understand that he needs to watch his words. Secondly, as a member of an organization that has signed on for policing, I would think that countenancing the behavior of these dead-enders would stand in stark contrast to the position of the party to which he belongs. His words are simply more of the same drivel that went on previously.

    nickyg: “It’s a red rag to a bull. Stupid. In my opinion deleiberately so. Anyone ignoring these realities should perhaps come and live in the real world. ”

    Given the self-deluded nature of the dissidents, perhaps your advice is mis-aimed…

    nickyg: “Objectively, can any sane person say that it would not have been a better policing decision to let this thing run it’s course for an hour or two, where the only people who would have heard of it would have been the participants themselves? Anyone?”

    Hardly. It would set a precedent in this new period that the same old bad behaviors were going to be allowed. Best to disabuse them early than let the idea go that they and not the police and the elected officials were the powers that be.

  • Roisin

    Nickyg,

    Good points, well made.

  • Garibaldy

    This does raise a wider question of the relationship between the police and political activity in the new era. For example, the police film participants in Easter parades. So are we looking at a situation where in the future the Justice minister is being filmed attending a parade because the police regard it as potentially seditious? This will have to be sorted out at some point. None of which necessarily has anything to do with an illegal parade such as this under discussion, but it might.

  • SuperSoupy

    DC,

    To me it seems as if they were acting entirely legally at the start.

    They were gathering at the gates of a cemetery to hold a commemoration within the cemetery.

    This doesn’t seem like an event that needs policed, just as other rememberances in cemeteries don’t need policed or protests.

    However, whatever the reason behind deciding to ‘police’ remembering the dead in a legal manner the response was unjustified and completely wrong.

  • Nickyg

    Here’s another clue. If Sinn Fein decided to show up and picket these “Loyalist obnoxious gatherings” in thier own areas.. perhaps that would be a better comparison? Actually any number of illegal, obnoxious Loyalist gatherings have gone on for years. I don’t think the sight of a Tricolour waving protestor would have went down too well at Jim Allisters pres conference, eh? That’s teh flipsid, like it or not. Play your staraight as a die, law and order this and that approach all you like, just keep burying your head in the sand as to the incendiary nature of northern politics. Hint, it’s caused a bit of bother over the decades.

    Of course, for your purposes you’re conveniently forgetting the distinction between Loyalist and Dissident Republican (are sure you’re in the right site?). Dissident Reoublicans raison d’etre is opposition to the PSNI. Loyalists not so much. Geddit?

    Therefore it is highly questionable in terms of effective tactics, for the PSNI to fan the flames. It seems that if political policing is to be indulged in, there is a worrying trend towards the politically mischevious throwing of a spanner in the works, rather than taking the politically nuanced decision to let the thing slide and fizzle out. That deserves to be challenged. There’s no harm in “putting the manners on the police” when they seem to be at something questionable.

    As for entitlement complex yah-dah yah-dah.. as I almost certainly contribute more tax to “northern society” than your good self, I’ll put that down to desperation and stereotyping ignorance on your part (now there’s a new phenomea in the North).

  • Dread Cthulhu

    DA: “Lads and lasses, could I just point out that there’s been a load of slagging about OO trying to get a LEGAL march down at Garvaghy on another thread but there’s no comment about this being an ILLEGAL parade.”

    Ah, but there is no OO parade, given the OO’s unwillingness to abide by the process, DA. It won;t be a legal parade until the OO comes to terms with the resident’s group. Likewise, what is there really to discuss — an non-noticed parade was attempted, the police intervened and there was unpleasentness, the end. Arguably, that’s what passes for normal in Northern Ireland. Given the outcome of the most recent OO parade to make the news, even the legal one’s are not something to be desired.

    DA: “Level playing field please!! If prods can’t march legally then how is it equitable if republicans march illegally?”

    Um, point of fact, the dissident group did not get to march. If the police were sufficiently reliable to give the same treatment to the OO were they to attempt to march illegally, then it would be a level playing field.

    DA: “Mebbe the OO shd just leg it down the Garvaghy Road and hope no one notices. ”

    A risible notion on its face, DA. The pissed Loyalists who come out for these events are difficult to hide, if only for the trail of broken glass in their wake, let alone the parades themselves.

  • Ulick

    Considering these people intended to process between the gates of the cemetery and the memorial it could hardly be described as an “unnotified parade”. I attended two commemorations on Easter Sunday and the PSNI were not present at either cemetery, so the question as to be asked why they turned up at this one, unless it was with the intention of provoking a response.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Soupy: “They were gathering at the gates of a cemetery to hold a commemoration within the cemetery. ”

    And, per the article, the police rover was simply present. Now, I’m not sure how it is where you are, but police patrol through neighborhoods do happen, even near graveyards.

    Also to quote the article:

    “The parade was organised the 32 County Sovereignty Movement, the political wing of the Real IRA.”

    Now, we can quibble about whether it was a parade or simply a mess of folks walking along in unison, but that would seem to be splitting hairs.

    Soupy: “This doesn’t seem like an event that needs policed, just as other rememberances in cemeteries don’t need policed or protests. ”

    Sure they don’t… petrol bombs being a simple fashion accessory to this set…

    Soupy: “However, whatever the reason behind deciding to ‘police’ remembering the dead in a legal manner the response was unjustified and completely wrong. ”

    I don’t personally consider a police car within line of sight to be a “provocation,” Soupy. The fact that these hoods had petrol bombs on this “solemn rememberance” suggests that they were looking for trouble to begin with, does it not?

  • Yokel

    Enough excuses lads and lasses. No sale.

    Anderson fucked up, end of. if you don’y like the brave new NI arranged by the DUP & SF don’t vote for either.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    nickyg: “If Sinn Fein decided to show up and picket these “Loyalist obnoxious gatherings” in thier (sic) own areas.. perhaps that would be a better comparison?”

    Not really. What we have, if the article is to be believed, is a collection of 25 to 30 goombahs, armed with petrol bombs, who decided they wanted to take down a police land-rover. Hint — if I am “policing” 30 or so hoods, I don’t send a single car.

    nickyg: “That’s teh (sic) flipsid(sic), like it or not. Play your staraight(sic) as a die, law and order this and that approach all you like, just keep burying your head in the sand as to the incendiary nature of northern politics. Hint, it’s caused a bit of bother over the decades. ”

    Simply allowing the dissidents and Loyalists their own way, free of the strictures of civil society, is not a recipe for improvement. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    nickyg: “Therefore it is highly questionable in terms of effective tactics, for the PSNI to fan the flames. ”

    So, what are you saying, nicky — any group of thugs armed with home-made incendiaries are free from the strictures of the law?

    Better to sort out those dead-enders who have figured out their day has passed than to let them live the delusion they are still relevant. As demonstrated lately, they are unelectable, lacking support even in those areas they claim as their own.

    nickyg: “It seems that if political policing is to be indulged in, there is a worrying trend towards the politically mischevious throwing of a spanner in the works,”

    One has to wonder about the sort of person who considers a petrol bomb a “mischevious spanner in the works…

    nickyg: “There’s no harm in “putting the manners on the police” when they seem to be at something questionable. ”

    See above.

    One calls the ombudsman when the police do “something questionable.” Tossing a few petrol bombs, on the other hand, is a less than constructive response…

  • Nickyg

    Dread..

    In my opinion, SF are the real losers here, hence the exasperation from them.

    In trying to bring Republicans along as a unit and limit the effectiveness of small dissident groups, every obnoxious policing move undoes hours of debate. Again, I repeat, it is my belief that there are those “dissidents” within the PSNI who would love nothing better than to throw the odd spanner in the works and, as I said, give the odd metaphorical sneaky nip.

    So Anderson chose his words clumsily, but the sentiment is correct. If the PSNI are adopting clumsy and questionable tactics, then they deserve to be called on it.

    I think it’s a tad disingenious to make the argument about disabusing them early etc, as the whole point of the exercise has been to see dissident opinion fade into obscurity with success on the ground. Similarly, it’s a tad gormless to pretend this whole process of conciliation is anything other than one gigantic, coordinated balancing act by all concerned parties. Saying it’s just a law and order approach and no more is being wilfully disingenious.

    Quite simply, that some in the PSNI are evidently intent to tip the balance now and then, tells me that the odd (now famous) “bad apple” remains alive and kicking and willing to make counter productive decisions.

  • Bemused

    Sorry NickyG – your 5:58 is so badly constructed as to be incomprehensible. Let me guess – you weren’t a very regular attender at the ole’ reading/writing/spelling classes. That said, the following gem couldn’t be ignored.

    “….as I almost certainly contribute more tax to “northern society” than your good self…”

    Oh dear – vulgar as well as illiterate. If it’s any consolation (and apologies other Sluggers for stooping to this level but, hey, he started it) – I’d doubt you pay more tax then me – I paid over £300k last year.

  • Builders Merchant

    Just as a matter of interest where did the Derry lads get the bricks from as we could do with a new supply around here?!

    Wicksie

  • Nickyg

    you also misconstrued me (deliberately?).. the spanner throwing, so to speak, i refered to seems to be coming from some in the PSNI. tt was not a reference to the throwing of petrol bombs. I trust this wasn’t deliberate twisting on your part.

    Quite simply, I’m saying this: Stormontgate, Northern bank evidence thrown out, election day arrests and a decision (probably localised, I’d imagine) to seemingly antagonise dissidents and give them an oxygen boost. If there’s going to be politically nuanced direction being taken in relation to policing decisions, they are certainly showing a trend towards the destructive rather than constructive. Of course, I will stand corrected should the version of the 1 landrover and a pre prepeared arsenal be proven correct, but my assertion of the posibility of a sinister agenda from some within the PSNI remains pertinent, and in my opinion, probable.

    That deserves to be challenged.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    nickyg: “In my opinion, SF are the real losers here, hence the exasperation from them. ”

    I agree with your conclusion, if not your theory of said conclusion.

    I think SF loses this one due to Anderson’s reflexive regurgitation of the same old same old.

    nickyg: “it is my belief that there are those “dissidents” within the PSNI who would love nothing better than to throw the odd spanner in the works and, as I said, give the odd metaphorical sneaky nip. ”

    Maybe, but I don’t think that this is the case in this instance. Also, I would point out the possession of petrol bombs on this “solemn rememberance” suggests that these thugs were looking for something more than a prayer and laying wreath.

    nickyg: “So Anderson chose his words clumsily, but the sentiment is correct. If the PSNI are adopting clumsy and questionable tactics, then they deserve to be called on it. ”

    No, they’re not. First of all, I can say that I believe the “marchers” were laying for trouble — honest men don’t go to a memorial service with a molotov cocktail in their pocket — what is the purpose — torch a hearse on the way out? Second, given the atmosphere, I would say it was far more stupid of the dissidents to pick a fight with the police. This sort of patch-guarding and chest thumping is reminiscent of Loyalist gangsters.

    nickyg: “I think it’s a tad disingenious to make the argument about disabusing them early etc, as the whole point of the exercise has been to see dissident opinion fade into obscurity with success on the ground.”

    And how, pray tell, are they to succeed in maintaining law and order if they permit armed thugs a free pass at every opportunity, nickyg? These hoods are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Its better to sort them out earlier rather than later.

    The hoods came looking for trouble, as evidenced by their bombs.

    The problem with a child with a hammer is that everything looks like a nail.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    nickyg: “Stormontgate, Northern bank evidence thrown out, election day arrests and a decision (probably localised, I’d imagine) to seemingly antagonise dissidents and give them an oxygen boost.”

    Actually, those aided SF far more than the hoods on the street, nicky. One wonders if “dissident,” in the Republican lexicon, is a euphemism for “those who wanted to keep their rackets and guns intact.”

    nickyg: “If there’s going to be politically nuanced direction being taken in relation to policing decisions, they are certainly showing a trend towards the destructive rather than constructive.”

    I don’t want political policing at all, nuanced or otherwise, nicky — I want thugs, regardless of political or religious preference, removed.

    nickyg: “Of course, I will stand corrected should the version of the 1 landrover and a pre prepeared arsenal be proven correct, but my assertion of the posibility of a sinister agenda from some within the PSNI remains pertinent, and in my opinion, probable. ”

    I leave you to your tin-foil, then…

    Hint: just where did the petrol bombs come from, if all they were going to do is walk from the grave to the memorial? What do they take with them when they go to the pub, mortar bombs?

  • Nickyg

    Bemused..

    Have you ever seen A Few Good Men?

    Conversing with you is somewhat remniscent of the scene..

    Kaffee: Colonel Jessup, did you order the code red?!
    Judge: You don’t have to answer that question!
    Jessep: I’ll answer the question. You want answers?
    Kaffee: I think I’m entitled.
    Jessep: You want answers?!
    Kaffee: I want the truth!
    Jessep: You can’t handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who’s gonna do it? You?! You, Lieutenant Weinberg?! I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago’s death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said, “Thank you,” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to! (There may also have been some jibe about a post at 5:58pm and going to school in the original script)..
    Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?
    Jessep: I did the job I was sent to do–
    Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?!
    Jessep: YOU’RE GODDAMN RIGHT I PAID £300K IN TAXES LAST YEAR!

    😉

  • Yokel

    Bemused if you PERSONALLY paid that kind of tax (not your company) then you either need a better accountant,the Revenue are clawing it all back after years of underpayment..or I might actually know who you are…..

  • Anthony

    I wonder if Cllr Anderson is anything to Martina Anderson…anyone know?

    As for the police being at an un notifed parade in a republican area, get ta fuck…they were most likely on a regular patrol in Northern Irelands second city when some steeks full of the zeal of Pearse and others and eager to show off to eachother starts pelting the police. No big mystery.

  • IJP

    Again an exposé of a view held by far too many in Sinn Féin.

    The law applies equally everywhere, to everyone.

    There can be no such thing as a “Republican area”. The very division that implies is an ethnic nationalist notion, not a true republican one. Real republicans recognize that we are all equal under the law in all locations.

  • fair_deal

    On a legal note lack of notification of a parade does not automatically make it illegal.

  • Nickyg

    Dread..

    for you to suggest that SF being guilty until proven innocent on the Northern Bank, Stormontgate etc was beneficial to them makes me wonder if you are going to be offering me your very own well worn tin foil hat. 😮

    If the inconsistencies and agendas are subsequently exposed, perhaps, but the original damage can never be erased.

    I’m not a big fan of this taking excerpts from posts and making pointed replies to particular paragraphs, ignoring the context or continuum of the sentiment expressed.

    Of course, Anderson may have been clumsy in his verbage, but I think you will agree that his sentiments are more reflective of his highlighting the possibility of mischevious policing, and attempting on the eother hand to not make the fatal error of marginalising that dissident opinion which can still be won. This, rather than the alternative which many in this society would gleefully sieze upon: that this shows SF are unreconstructed, unfit for sharing power. This thread is a case in point.

    I did say I will stand corrected if your version of events proves correct, though I doubt it’s as simplistic as you make out. As a Republican, with regards taking the official line: once bitten and all that.

    Listen, I am in opposition to the fruitlessness of the dissidents arguments. It is exasperating to see elements (and not just in the PSNI) fanning the embers of a debate which SF has hard won (imo). That is the crux of the matter for me.

    For you to seemingly peddle the “law and order” line without recognising that there MUST be a nnuanced approach in these transitional times, is not really tenable.

    I agreee, there is a time when that must kick in, but, as long as dissidents have the evidence that there are destructive elements at play within the system, they are always going to be able to cling to a shred of legitimacy in opposing that. Remove that, which is what I am after, and that crutch is gone. Surely we can learn from our own history here, from The Easter Rising, the anti treatyites, throught to the current “troubles?”

    So, Anderson:
    Calling for No Go areas again? No

    Peed off at the possibility that elements in the Police may be working to old agendas? Possibly

    Attempting to balance and prevent Dissident waverers from turning their back on SF completely? Probably

    The usual suspects siezing on this with venomous zeal in order to give lifeblood to their faltering desire for exclusion? Definately

  • Dread Cthulhu

    nickyg: “for you to suggest that SF being guilty until proven innocent on the Northern Bank, Stormontgate etc was beneficial to them makes me wonder if you are going to be offering me your very own well worn tin foil hat. 😮 ”

    ROFL…

    The ultimate failure of these events were (and may continue to be) more beneficial to SF, in the long run, than the events themselves were detrimental. They do still tell the fable about the boy who cried wolf, do they not? Or have they neglected the classics?

    nickyg: “Of course, Anderson may have been clumsy in his verbage, but I think you will agree that his sentiments are more reflective of his highlighting the possibility of mischevious policing, ”

    No, I wouldn’t. He came off sounding like just another hoodlum claiming his patch of turf.

    nickyg: “This, rather than the alternative which many in this society would gleefully sieze upon: that this shows SF are unreconstructed, unfit for sharing power.”

    No, it shows that Anderson regurgitates the old lines on command, like one of Pavlov’s dogs salivating when the bell rings.

    nickyg: “I did say I will stand corrected if your version of events proves correct, though I doubt it’s as simplistic as you make out. As a Republican, with regards taking the official line: once bitten and all that. ”

    Think it through, nickyg. Where did the get the bombs, if not having them with them? Are you suggesting the police politely waited for them to scavenge the necessary components?

    nickyg: “I am in opposition to the fruitlessness of the dissidents arguments.”

    And yet you sit here and applaud their behavior, absolving the hoods of guilt in their actions.

    nickyg: “For you to seemingly peddle the “law and order” line without recognising that there MUST be a nnuanced approach in these transitional times, is not really tenable”

    Political policing is how we ended up here in the first place. What we need is one law, period. To proclaim that that area is a “Republican area” is the antithesis of honest Republicanism. Let the hoods either stand down or be arrested.

    nickyg: “I agreee, there is a time when that must kick in, but, as long as dissidents have the evidence that there are destructive elements at play within the system”

    Bootstrap levitation — your argument allows the dissidents to cause mayhem, which you applaud and absolve them of guilt, and then claim it as evidence. We’ve had enough of this sort of merry-go-round logic. The less tolerance there is for the dissidents and their “bull-in-china-shop” behavior, the sooner they will dry up and fade away.

  • Ali

    “The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area.”
    They might have been making the point that it is their job to keep the peace and both communities have now signed up to this.

    We are suddenly ruled by law and democratically accountable authority rather than the arbitary powers of paramillitary thugs: an almost civilized society.

    Them then getting attacked by an armed mob while an SF councilor tuts about their insensitive invasion of Republican turf adds a touch of comic opera to the whole policing deal.

  • GavBelfast

    Meanwhile:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6546693.stm

    What does the new establishment have to say about this, and what can / will it do? Blame “themmums” and tell the cops to stay away?

    Anywhere else, the clocks going forward and a hint of blue skies and warmth is a cause for optimism. But here!!! ….

  • Dread Cthulhu

    GavBelfast: “What does the new establishment have to say about this, and what can / will it do? Blame “themmums” and tell the cops to stay away? ”

    To give the wholly consistant answer, seeing as I am getting a trencher’s worth of shite on each thread, the loud-mouth who felt the need to regurgitate the same old same old should make himself scarce for a while and unlearn his apparent reflexive jingoistic comments.

    There should be one law. There should be one process. Frankly, if any group cannot fufill their obligations to the community, vis-a-vis a parade, then they should not be allowed to parade. If they choose to force the issue and parade without the proper notification, then they should be subject to the penalties of the law. This should occur regardless of political allegience or creed.

  • Bemused

    NickyG – nice one.
    Yokel – i paid it personally and my accountant is superb – I’m intrigued that you think you know who I am.

  • Bemused

    “On a legal note lack of notification of a parade does not automatically make it illegal.

    Posted by fair_deal on Apr 11, 2007 @ 07:22 PM”

    Certainly FD, but it surely gives police a clear basis for attending?

  • grumbleweed

    “Perhaps they were policing it.” – Ziznivy

    Or perhaps the Securocrats were trying to disenfranchise the community and destroy the peace process with their whataboutery.

    😛

  • Aquifer

    Dissident republicans, Orangemen, UFF, Red Hand Commandos directing traffic or obstructing it? No thanks.

    The police can attend any gathering they like thanks, and should attend every illegal parade.

    Sinn Fein should tell their members that it is no longer necessary to selectively excuse stone throwers on the basis of their religion.

  • Forecast

    This really sums it up for me:

    ‘A spokesperson for the 32 County Sovereignty Movement claimed that republicans attending the commemoration had been “goaded” by the police.

    “The police were sitting there and they goaded the young people who were standing watching. If the police are going to sit in landrovers in the middle of Creggan at a republican parade then this was always going to happen,” he said.’

    Police sit in a (singular)land rover, observing the political wing of the RIRA (a terrorist group who carried out the Omagh bombing by the way). Youths feel so aggrieved and goaded by this they get out their petrol bombs (handy) and fire bomb the police.

    Verdict – its the peelers fault. Always going to happen if police SIT and by doing so GOAD the locals (with their petrol bombs)

    What fucking planet do some people live on?

  • seanzmct

    A footnote to all of this.

    Can someone explain why the Sinn Fein Easter Parade at Stranorlar in Donegal, addressed by Martin McGuinness, was fronted by a colour party of young gents in the traditional paramilitary attire of black leather jackets and matching berets. I thought the “war” was over.

  • Dora the Explorer

    Despite what Gerry has said, it sounds like they don’t want a police officer about the place. No change there then! Let the PSNI police unionist areas because if the PSNI goes in to Republican areas it’s just provocation isn’t it?

    I hink IJP hits the nail on the head…

    “Again an exposé of a view held by far too many in Sinn Féin.

  • Terry Doherty

    What is the difference between an illegal parade and an unnotified parade? And can you have an illegal parade on private property, since a march from the gates to the republican plot will only involve walking within the city cemetery, which is owned by Derry City Council?

    As for claims that the PSNI were only passing, any knowledge of Creggan will show they were definitely going out of their way in passing.

    And I’m sure I heard Peter Anderson condemn completely the actions of those young hoods who attacked the PSNI.

    It might annoy people that SF haven’t become cheerleaders for the PSNI, but then why should they? Its not as if the PSNI are all saints who wouldn’t be above a bit of mixing now and again, Sean Hoey’s frame up for instance.

  • Dewi

    I know who Bemused is as well – he’s Laurie Sanchez !

  • fair_deal

    Bemused

    “Certainly FD, but it surely gives police a clear basis for attending? ”

    Agreed. My apologies for the lack of clarity, I did not intend my comment to imply the police had no basis for being there. I was simply trying to tidy up the terminology around the parade.

  • O’

    If PSNI were less violent and sectarian,maybe we could accept the police…I only hope policemen weren’t there to harass those guys.I surely blame who attacked PSNI agents.But I’d like to know if policemen had provoked demonstraters.
    Peter Anderson,thanks!

  • http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6547857.stm

    hmmm… not as much interest in this is there?

    Probably not worth blogging at all

  • Diluted Orange

    “The question has to be asked, however, what were the police doing at a republican commemoration in a republican area.”

    Do fishermen not go to the sea to catch fish? Do police not go to Republican dissident marches to arrest terrorists?

  • IJP

    Dora

    To be fair, without wishing to over-generalize, I do think there is a rural/urban distinction when it comes to policing/justice issues (and not just within SF).

    The exposé is specifically of the fundamental SF belief that they get to govern “republican areas” alone while also having power-sharing for the rest of the country. Sorry, it doesn’t work like that.

    Also, some SF supporters have accused me of not recognizing the issue of conflicting rights. Of course, this is an example of people accusing others of the things they are guilty of themselves.

    The very reason we have a process with a Parades Commission is to deal with these conflicting rights. So why is SF opposing that process?

    The laws of NI apply equally everywhere to everyone. It’s simple in theory, but actually quite tough in practice.

  • Tori

    Diluted Orange,
    Have you got something that afford you to judge dissidents in this manner?