“the leadership of the IRA has conducted an in-depth inquiry into the circumstances..”

As well as the IRA’s Easter message 2007.. As noted by the Belfast Telegraph, this week’s issue of An Phoblacht carries an apology from the IRA.. for the murder of Eoin Morley in 1990 – ‘Kevin Fulton’ has already admitted to being one of two gunmen involved. It’s also one of the cases in which the Police Ombudsman’s office has already investigated the subsequent police actions – report here [pdf file] – a report which his brother, Ivan Morley, responded to in The Blanket at the time, Feb 2005.The IRA’s statement on the murder of Eoin Morley

The following IRA statement was supplied to An Phoblacht this week.

“Following meetings with the mother of Eoin Morley the leadership of the IRA has conducted an in-depth inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death of Eoin Morley.
“Eoin Morley was shot and killed in Newry on 15 April 1990. No order was issued for the killing of Eoin Morley. At the time allegations were made that he was an informer. In the course of a lengthy interview in An Phoblacht in November 1992 the IRA leadership described those allegations as, “incorrect and totally inaccurate”.
“The killing of Eoin Morley was wrong. The IRA leadership offers its apologies to the Morley family for the grief and pain they have suffered as a result of our actions and the subsequent false allegations levelled against Eoin Morley.”

However the Police Ombdusman’s report [pdf file] begins by noting that

1.1 In July 1989, through a local newspaper, the Provisional IRA had issued a death threat against Eoin David Morley. On Easter Sunday, evening, 15th April 1990 Eoin Morley was at his girlfriend’s home address in Derrybeg, Newry, when at about 2200 hrs, two masked men knocked on the door. It was answered by his girlfriend and they entered the premises and dragged Eoin Morley into the front garden where he was shot twice. Following emergency surgery at Daisy Hill Hospital, Newry, Eoin Morley died of his injuries at 0020 hrs the following morning. The Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for his murder.

The recommendations of the Police Ombudsman’ report [pdf file]

6.1 A separate letter has been sent to the Chief Constable by the Executive Director recommending investigative actions regarding the murder and relating offences. The murder investigation has been re-opened.

The failures in this investigation can be attributed variously to the investigating officer, the lack of supervision by his supervisors, inadequate fingerprint audit systems, some Special Branch officers and the lack of systems for the dissemination of information in Special Branch at the time. The standard of proof for disciplinary failures from that period was ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ and, in the absence of an identifiable responsible officer, it has been judged that disciplinary action in respect of the failures in the Morley investigation could not.

And the conclusions on the 4 complaints

7.1 Complaint 1

That the RUC failed to conduct a proper and thorough investigation into the murder of Eoin David Morley.

This complaint is substantiated.

7.2 Complaint 2

That police knew who was responsible for murdering Eoin Morley.

This complaint is not substantiated but the Police Ombudsman is of the view that police did fail to take appropriate action.

7.3 Complaint 3

That police failed to arrest the known suspect “A” and sought to protect him.

There is nothing within the murder file to indicate that anyone was arrested in connection with Eoin Morley’s murder. High-grade intelligence was held by the RUC in relation to a number of individuals who were named as being responsible for the murder.

The frequent practice of the RUC Special Branch, not to disseminate information, and the consequences thereof inevitably led to suspicion that individuals were being protected.

This complaint is therefore partially substantiated.

7.4 Complaint 4

That Eoin Morley was murdered at the instigation and behest of the police to create a feud between PIRA and the IPLO.

There is nothing to indicate any prior knowledge by police or any police involvement in Eoin Morley’s death. Nor is there any evidence or intelligence to indicate that there was an attempt by the police to provoke a feud between the IPLO and PIRA.

This complaint is not substantiated.

, , , , ,

  • seanzmct

    I was just wondering when Dr Paisley will avail of a photo opportunity with P.O’Neill in the furtherance of the process of cementing relations between sectarian bigots on both sides.

    O’Neill might even find it within himself to apologise for all the innocent Protestants that his volunteers did away with to achieve office in a partitionist powersharing six counties parliament.

    Paisley could apologise for all the inflammatory behaviour that encouraged loyalist killers.

  • And I was just wondering when all the FRU double agents in the PIRA – especially ‘Kevin Fulton’, Samuel Rosenfeld, ‘Martin Ingram’ et al. – will be obliged in a judicial context to account for all the murders they help commit – starting back in January 1988 with the killing of Anthony McKiernan after John McMichael’s assassination, and many others, of course, including that of Eoin Morley, etc.

    This was all part of fixing up the Provisionals’ ‘Stake knife’ aka Freddie Scappaticci for what the FRU was arranging through the services of ‘Steak knife’ aka DUKE, etc. – what the new MI5 director Jonathan ‘Bob’ Evans aka William Perkins will be hard pressed to keep covered up.

  • Ingram

    Eh Trow,

    Looks like the Easter Bunny has been smoking the old weed again mate.

    Ding Ding Dinga ling

    Marty

  • While I have no idea, Marty, about what the Easter Bunny inhales, I have not smoked anything for nearly a half century now, and I have never aided and abetted any conspiracy murders.

    What say you, the biggest FRU ‘whistleblower’?

    Still hope to see you, Rosenfeld and ‘Kevin Fulton’ in a private court battle, even if HMG cannot manage a public one.

  • Henry 07

    Hi Ingram,

    Just wondering if we can expect those O’Loan revelations this weekend as they failed to turn up last time despite your assurances.

  • Ingram

    Henry,

    I think they are doing Gibralter party this week mate, when the Ra were massacred by their own touting.Somethings never change and some people never learn.

    The week after I think it is the other cull Loughall. D day.

    Night, night and Ding Ding

    Martin

    PS. The fact the Ombudsman chief investigator met with Handlers and others ON TAPE over four years ago about Freddy Scap yet only a couple a weeks ago announces an inquiry into the many murders is remarkable. You may not think that important but just like a camera, the tape recording does not lie.Deal in facts mate.LOL

  • Henry 07

    I’ll take that as a no then.

  • Northsider

    Hey Ingram, is it possible that those journos assuring you that this week they’ll definitely go to press with your story are doing so just to get you off the phone?

    I know I would.

  • Dec

    Hey Ingram, is it possible that those journos assuring you that this week they’ll definitely go to press with your story are doing so just to get you off the phone?

    Either that or its because Ingram keeps referring to Stakeknife by Greg Harkin as ‘that book what I wrote’.

  • susan

    I’m glad the family received this apology, and before another Easter went by. When I saw it, I couldn’t help but think of the famous Seamus’s line “No poem or play or song/can fully right a wrong/inflicted or endured” — ” but if the statement and the apology did not matter, Eilis and Ivan Morley would not have sought it. I hope the apology may bring them some solace, and I’m genuinely thankful to whoever decided the possibility of bringing some solace to that family outweighed any other consideration.

  • Vincent Ferrer

    “The Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for his murder.”

    “The killing of Eoin Morley was wrong.”

    Knowing this, how can any self-respecting Irish man vote for SF? It is just not acceptable to say “hey, shite happens in a war”.

    I do however welcome the IRA apology. It is not just to the family of those murdered who deserve an aplogy, but the people of Ireland too. This apology is a small step in the right direction. The Provos need to do whatever is necessary to convince the people of Ireland that their remorse is genuine. Afterall words alone are cheap so let’s here the SF leadership excusing their treasonous deeds and promoting the volunteers as “great Irishmen/women”.

  • Pete Baker

    Susan

    Whether the family accept any such apology is entirely a matter for them.

    However, when any apology is accompanied by a statement from the leadership of an organisation which declares it has conducted its own internal inquiry, in-depth or not, and which also inludes the self-absolving line, “No order was issued for the killing of Eoin Morley.”, then the sincerity of that apology should be called into question.

    Not least given the previously noted claims of responsibility for the murder.

  • susan

    Pete, I don’t mean this at all unkindly, but I doubt very much you were the intended audience for the apology.

    I did not read the line you referenced as “self-absolving.” The PIRA statement concludes “The killing of Eoin Morley was wrong. The IRA leadership offers its apologies to the Morley family for the grief and pain they have suffered as a result of our actions and the subsequent false allegations levelled against Eoin Morley.”

    My understanding of the PIRA statement is that they are saying the murder of Eoin Morley was not sanctioned by the Army Council, but that it was carried out by a person or person who was a member of PIRA (obviously, the fact that Fulton is now known to have been a member of the FRU acting as a member of PIRA is yet another wrinkle). If I am misreading that, I’m sure someone will correct me, and the sooner the better.

    Not for one moment am I suggesting that this a “happy ending.” All I am saying is that I hope this apology brings some comfort and solace to the Morley family who sought it and fought for it. It is hard to see what PIRA could have to gain by this apology, except to clear Eoin Morley’s name and bring some comfort to his remaining family.

  • Pete Baker

    Susan

    I have no doubt that I am not the inteneded audience.. however, since it was a public statement..

    “Self-absolving” refers to when an organisation declares, after its own internal inquiry, that it did not “order.. the killing of Eoin Morley”.

    The attempt to pass responsibility onto “a person or person who was a member of PIRA” outside of the control of the leadership should be transparent – and neglects the previously noted claims of responsibility from that organisation.

    I wouldn’t accept the findings of any organisation’s own internal inquiry without question.. and even less so when that inquiry centred on a murder.

  • Henry 07

    In fairness to you Pete your scepticism has been known to extend to independent enquiries too.

  • Remember the Falls Road 2

    [i]I think they are doing Gibralter party this week mate, when the Ra were massacred by their own touting.Somethings never change and some people never learn.

    The week after I think it is the other cull Loughall. D day.

    Night, night and Ding Ding[/i]

    No party in between for your pals who were executed at the funeral?

  • Kez

    This is a statement from the Morley family in response to the statement from the IRA in regards to the murder Eoin Morley:

    The Morley family would like to comment on the statement from the IRA regards the murder of Eoin.
    Seventeen years have passed since Eoin was shot on Easter Sunday 1990. We understand that it would have been easier for the Provisional movement to continue with the charade that were the ever changing “reasons” given to try to justify Eoin’s murder. For the PIRA to take the unprecedented step of fully retracting the explanation given at the time and in subsequent statements, and to apologise for what happened is a bold move and we, Eoin’s family, welcome it.
    We have always known that the PIRA did not sanction Eoins murder. Privately many members of the Provisional movement confirmed this and expressed their disgust at what happened. From the outset we suspected that Eoin died at the hands of British agents.
    Sadly history has proved us right. The statement from the IRA, and the recent investigation from the police ombudsman, Nala O’Loan ,confirm what we, Eoins family, and Republicans in Newry have known for years.
    Eoin was an active republican. The only people to benefit from his murder were the enemies of Republicanism. It has now been established that the RUC special branch shielded Eoins killers, helping them to plan the killing and avoid prosecution, even though a wealth of evidence was available against them.
    Collusion took many forms throughout the conflict, from the blatant targeting of catholic’s by the RUC and their loyalist allies, to the age old tactic of using paid agents planted within the IRA and other Republican groups, who were used to agitate from within, all to a FRU and RUC special branch agenda.
    Eoin was murdered on Easter Sunday, still wearing his Easter lilly on his lapell.Easter Sunday is a day that is special to all Republicans. On that day we remember all those throughout the years who made the ultimate sacrifice in pursuit of the goals laid out in the proclamation of 1916. Eoin Morley also paid the ultimate price, murdered by British agents because he dared to take up the fight. On this Easter Sunday, and every one to follow, we the Morley family will remember them all.

  • FAP

    The Morley statement makes it plain they regard SFIRA as British agents. Talk about stating the obvious.

  • Marcellinus

    If the statement gives the family a sense of closure with which they can live with, then this is to be welcomed and for them I am happy.

    However I have to side with Pete and view the statement as self-absolving.

    Can we expect to hear further apoligies which only serve to glorify the IRA, blaming their treasonous atrocities on loyalist death squads, the Brits, spies, spooks etc?

  • While I do not want to focus attention away from the Morley family’s statement in the slightest, I do think that ‘Ingram’s statement about the culls at Loughgall and on The Rock should not pass without more notice.

    Here ‘Ingram’ is alluding to what ‘Steak knife’ helped obtain – the imprisonment of Captain Simon Hayward, the Brits’ leading hitman in both Northern Ireland and apparently here in Stockholm at Olof Palme’s expense – in return for a trumped-up FRU drug-trafficking charge against the Ops Officer of 14 Intelligence Company’s South Detachment (June 1985-March 1987) at Loughgall and in the capture of the Eksund.

    And the cull on The Rock was facilitated by the Irishman aka ‘John Oakes’ and ‘Steak knife’ working with Sergeant Margaret Walshaw aka ‘Mags’ to fatally trap the three unarmed volunteers.

    This all has nothing to do with ‘Stake knife’ aka Freddie Scappaticci, indicating that ‘Ingram’s attempt to hide what the former did at the latter’s expense is nothing more than more FRU disinformation – what too much early Easter drinking last night induced him to ignore.

  • Marcellinus,

    Without the sacrafice of the brave volunteers of Provisisonal Oglaigh na hEireann, republicans and nationalists in this place would be still be living as second-class citizens under an oppressive regime, subject to systematic state discrimination and violence.

    Whether you like it or not, this Easter Sunday we will honour them proudly in our tens of thousands at Easter Commemorations throughout this island.

    “Believe that we too love freedom and desire it. To us it is more desirable than anything in the world. If you strike us down now, we shall rise again and renew the fight. You cannot conquer Ireland; you cannot extinguish the Irish passion for freedom; if our deed has not been sufficient to win freedom then our children will win it with a better deed.”

  • seanzmct

    Dear Wickey Stickit,

    If agreeing with the Workers Party’s denunciation of the idiotic Provo “armed struggle” makes me a “Stickie bedfellow”-then so be it.

    The only sense I can make of your comment is that provincialised political perception leads you to stereotype anyone who dares to provide a leftist critique of those political knuckle-draggers, Paisley and Adams, as “Stickies”.

  • T.Ruth

    MCswiney
    What freedoms did you lack that were worth three thousand deaths? A rate paying franchise in local elections.Some notion that the Protestant poor were advantaged by the political system.

    Who are the Irish of whom you speak?-The DNA of Northern ireland people is all the same. How far back in history do you have to go to find a time when you can say “those people were here first and have a right to own Ireland?”
    If you are opposed to repressive regimes check out why and how the IRA gave so much support to Nazism/Fascism throughout its history.
    T.Ruth

  • mickhall

    Whilst one welcomes this apology from the PIRA, especially coming at this time of year, they need to understand it is simply not enough for the Provisional Republican Movement to apologize. Now that they are a political force to be reckoned with in the north they should mount a vigorous campaign for a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which would look at what actually occurred during the troubles and before which those who were engaged in violent acts will take responsibility for their behavior. Whether they be the British State, local politicians or para military’s.

    This case is important as it looks very likely that a paid informer and an undercover soldier were involved in Mr Morley’s murder. The UK state and the PIRA must not be allowed to close the book with this apology, for the community as a whole and Mr Morley’s family deserve better.

    There is also still the question of whether the Provos ordered that Mr Morley be the victim of a punishment beating, and if so what was the bases of the information they were given before they made such an order. Am I mistaken in believing that the PIRA has not apologiesed for any punishmnet beating of Mr Morley?

  • mickhall

    You may not think that important but just like a camera, the tape recording does not lie.Deal in facts mate.LOL
    posted by ‘ingram’

    ‘martin,

    I take it you are having a laugh here, if not I am tempted to post the photo someone sent me of you having sex with a pig.

    Regards.

  • Ivan

    Yes Mick, you are correct that the PIRA never apoligised for the so called punishment attack that was planned for Eoin. There was never any order issued for that eithier as far as I am aware. The fact that they used a rifle that was used in the past to shoot at helicopters would lead you to think that Eoin stood no chance, and they always intended to kill him.
    I believe that Eoin knew that the main instigator in his attack was an informant. This was because after some arms dumps were found in the Newry are in the mid eighties, Eoin was arrested and questioned for several days by the PIRA. It was then accertained that he couldnt have been the source of the weapons finds. He was subsequently released, but severed allties with the PIRA. Eoin knew if it wasnt him that informed on the weapons hides, then it must be one of very few others.
    The real informant knew that Eoin knew the truth, and instigated the attack on him, helped by his sidekick, brit agent Keeley-Fulton.
    This man is still in Newry, where he is now a member of the “Real” IRA, and continues to be a informant for the Brits.
    We the Morley family felt it was important that Eoin’s name was fully vindicated once and for all. Micks call for a truth and reconcillation process to be examined, is a good point.
    For us, we never expected, (nor did we get), any assistance from the RUC. Eoins name is now vindicated, and he should be remembered at Easter time, along with all the other brave men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice.

  • mickhall

    “Eoins name is now vindicated, and he should be remembered at Easter time, along with all the other brave men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice.
    Posted by Ivan”

    Indeed he should.

    Best regards

    Mick

  • T Ruth

    1. The IRA were not responsible for the entire death toll in the troubles. You choose to conviently forget the 1000 or so dead killed by UDA/UVF/UFF/RHC,RUC,British Army,UDR,MI5 etc..etc.. Would you also care to analyse, justify and explain why all of those deaths of mostly innocent victims were justifiable by each of the organisations that I have mentioned?

    2. As for what has been achieved. Lets list just a few;

    UDR – Responsible for many sectarian murders, both directly and indirectly – DISBANDED and consigned to history for ever.

    RUC – 90% Protestant Police Force responsible for 31 civilian deaths – DISBANDED.

    BRITISH ARMY – Responsible for 318 deaths in the troubles, including many children killed by plastic bullets and 168 civilian deaths in total. – All army watchtowers disbanded and troops forced to withdraw from every virtually Nationalist area in the North. Army levels at their lowest since the trobles began.

    EQUALITY – Mass Discrimination against the Catholic community has been virtually eradicated following 70 years of appalling sectarian rule by a bigoted Unionist Government has been . Equality has been acheieved in virtually every aspect of our society.

    ALL-IRELAND INSTITUTIONS – As part of the agreement, All-Ireland institutions have been established for the first time since partition in 1921. Cross-border links being strenghtened virtually on a daily basis and the North’s financial economic security now dependant on £400 million pounds of investment from the southern government.

    There are many, many more but i would be here all day… The island has changed, is changing and will continue to change. You can pontificate and exercise historical revisionism to your hearts content but the harsh realities and truths cannot be so wistfully expalined away…

  • seanzmct

    Sticky Wicket,

    What a petulant ad hominem emotional spasm. I fully intend to lodge a complaint about it. It is the stuff of the sectarian political gutter. One of the worst I have come across on this web-site.

    You have persisted in calling me a “Stickie” ie a member of the Official IRA , in your posts, despite the fact that I have repeatedly stated that I have never been a member or supporter of that political tradition. In the past, such irresponsible behaviour could get innocent people shot. But perhaps you don’t give a damn about that.

    One wonders how you would react if someone publicly denounced you as a Provo just because you might happen to concur with aspects of the SF analysis of the North.

    Of course my individual posts on this website do not constitute a developed critique of Sinn Fein and the DUP. Fancy that.

    But my wider critique of the Shinners and Paisleyites is a leftist one which has also been expressed by people like Brendan O’Neill, Eamonn McCann, Brendan Clifford and Mark Langhammer. It may not be to your liking but that does not give you the right to finger those who voice it as members of the Official IRA.

  • jerryp

    Statement from Morley family notwithstanding, this was a brutal murder, one of many carried out by ” freedom-fighters ” and for what ?

    Just look at what is now happening at Stormont and look at Sunningdale in 1974 and then consider all the pain and suffering that happened in between. It doesn’t justify as much as a headache, let alone the brutalisation of a generation.

  • seanzmct

    Sticky Wicket,

    If Lord Falls feels aggrieved by my little joke about the Shankill “reaching out to him” ,he is quite capable of responding himself. After all he has a political machine and a private army at his back. I do not.

    Complain away. I did not accuse you of paramilitary connections.

  • sticky wicket

    No double standards there then, Sean.

    Anyone else who espouses violence is a mindless thug. If you do it, it’s a ‘little joke’-rather like your invisible ‘critiques’in fact.

  • harveyck

    I have to say I agree with seanzmct, Sticky Wicket has gone way over the top and should issue an apology. There is reasoned debate and there is threatening personal abuse.Sticky Wicket seems to excel at the latter. Pack it in please Sticky for the good of this otherwise generally civilised website.

  • sticky wicket

    OK Sean(AKA Harvey)

  • Mick Fealty

    sw,

    Get a grip! If you want to conduct a grudge match with someone do it elsewhere. Consider this a yellow card!

    Now can we get back the topic in hand?

  • Aye

    Sean and Harvey should have a look at this as there’s invaluable information contained therein for them.

  • seanzmct

    The abusive and threatening personal attacks on me issued by “Sticky Wicket” have been pulled and their perpetrator issued with a yellow card.

    I would advise all contributors to Slugger to be on their guard against this pernicious troll.

    He/she accused me of a paramilitary connection on the basis of my offering a socialist critique of the Provos and Paisleyites which simply made reference to the Workers Party position on powersharing in the 70’s.

    I also intend to complain about “aye” (probably Stinky Wicket’s doppelganger) for his/her insulting post above.

  • Marcellinus

    macswiney,

    You are wrong is so many ways, yet I am guessing that you are stuck like glue to your views that no “debate” would be possible.

    Who specificaaly are you referring to when you mention the “brave men” of PIRA? Is it a blanket term (no pun intended) for everyone who signed up? Furthermore, where did these people get their mandate to do what they did?

    It would seem that for the duration of the PIRA campaign, the Irish people were telling them en masse, to end it. North and South, every time there was an election, the Irish people spoke and there was a very clear message. Did the PIRA listen? No. They took it on themselves to do as they pleased, not listening to the Irish people. They set themselves up as judge, juror and executioner, not just of the occupying crown forces but of their fellow countrymen too. That’s nothing short of treason.

    I do not want to suggest that this applies to all the PIRA volunteers. I am sure there were many brave men who acted honorably through this time but I think the Easter Commemorations hide the fact that there were equal numbers of treasonous, bloodthirsty volunteers who were acting for themselves and not for Ireland. The Godfathers who sanctioned countless murders of their fellow countrymen, and the hit-men who stole the lives of sons and daughters all over the countrymen, only serve to discredit what was once an honorable organization.

    There is nothing honorable in dismissing the fact the some people took it on themselves to use the name of Ireland in order to justify the murder of innocent people, even to the point of denying them and their families a Catholic burial. Clearly some people feel comfortable ignoring this and are happy to stand next to people who condone this behaviour, but I can’t. It has no place in the Ireland I want to see and until Republicans stop trying to justify it, I won’t be able to attend any of the Easter Commerations. Instead, I will say a private prayer for the fallen members of Oglaigh na hEireann and for all those who lost their lives as a result of treasonous acts carried out in the name of Oglaigh na hEireann.

  • Getting back to the subject of this thread, what are the answers to the following questions:

    1) Who killed Eoin Morley and why?

    2) Why did ‘Kevin Fulton’ claim that he and apparently Mooch Blair were involved in the killing when, it seems, that there is no evidence to support the claim?

    3) Why did ‘Fulton’ claim that there would be hell to pay by the RUC’s SB and the Box if he were prosecuted for what he claimed in his book, Unsung Hero?

    4) Was this just a ploy to get HMG to give him the gongs, glory and gelt he allegedly so richly deserved?

    5) Was ‘Fulton’ working in London for the Box, especially Jonathan ‘Bob’ Evans apparently aka William Perkins, at the time and subsequently when the murders occurred in N. I. which he claims he was also involved in?

    6) If ‘Fulton’ and Blair were not the British agents who killed Morley, who were they?

    7) If Morley was not killed officially by the PIRA Council because of his joining the IPLO, and allegedly taking information about PIRA arms dumps to a republican competitor, who in British military intelligence would want to murder such an apparently important informer?

    8) Wasn’t ‘Steak knife’ the biggest informer of this nature, and could it be that someone in British military intelligence suspected Morley of being that informer or wanted others to think so?

    P. s. Please see fit to add any questions and certainly answers you think to be relevant.

  • heck

    Why all the unionist griping about this apology. At least republicans have apologized. Where is Honest Tony’s apology?

    Let us not forget that the actual trigger man was an undercover member of the British army.

    This is just more

    British kill people –brave honorable warriors
    Irish kill people —-murdering terrorist scum

  • ingram

    Ivan,

    I am sorry for your loss BUT your brother was no Angel?

    I accept your logic in respect to mooch.

    Why dont you take this opportunity to inform this audience what action Martin McGuinness took against those involved in this operation when the family initialy complained.

    I look forward to Martin making his information available to the C2 ( Police) investigation, he interviewed/ debriefed those IRA members involved in this operation .

    I believe a very interesting tape of this debrief exists, come on Ivan tell my fellow Sluggers what the family knows of Martins involvement in the post operation investigation.

    Martin

  • Roisin

    Marcellinus,

    [i]Clearly some people feel comfortable ignoring this and are happy to stand next to people who condone this behaviour, but I can’t. It has no place in the Ireland I want to see and until Republicans stop trying to justify it, I won’t be able to attend any of the Easter Commerations.[/i]

    Do they have a lot of Easter Commemorations in America?

  • Ivan

    Martin, as you will be aware, I (and my family), were not privy to the actual debrief that went on regards those that killed Eoin, or have any of us personally met MM. But apparantley, you and Keeley have a tape of this debrief, and have often spoken of its existince, alas, to my knowledge, no such tape has been released. I understand that to keep you cards close to you chest is always a good ploy, but you have to reveal your hand eventually. I would think the time to release this tape would be now, when the story is in the spotlight. Yet there has been nothing, Martin I am sure that younunderstand my scepticisim regards the tape. Its no point asking me to back up your story, You and Keeley are the only people who can do this.

    Also Martin, you say Eoin was no angel, well you often spout a pro-republican agenda. If standing up and fighting for what you believe in is classed as being “no angel”, then Eoin is guilty.

    I have answered your questions Martin, (i hope), now I have a few for you. Why is Keeley still reluctant to mention Mooch’s name in public? On the radio interview involving you two, It was you that said his name. Peter is still reluctant to do it, why is this Martin? Even in his (attempt at a) book, he is very very thin on any substance regards those who he betrayed, why is this Martin?

  • ingram

    Ivan,

    That is a disingenous reply.

    You know that it was martin McGuinness who handled the families complaint on behalf of the IRA, YES or No.

    In respect to Eion. He was No angel in respect to his criminal activity, lets not get into the drugs side of this argument but lets just say that I do not consider Eion to be a fundamentaly sound Republican.

    In respect to Mooch. kevin is free to say what he likes in all these matters, I am not his keeper nor his spokesman.

    I have made my own position very clear.

    I am not sure what your point is in regards to Substance Ivan? Fulton was an Agent of the state, he did not sing from your Hymn sheet, that is what Agents within illegal organisations are charged to do.Lie and cause Mayhem and apparently some went that extra mile.

    On a related point ! You suggest that I offer pro-republican agenda?

    I am very pleased to correct you on this point.

    I am a Nationalist,that is I believe and hope one day to see a United Free Ireland. Republicans have done nothing for that JUST cause. To mix personal gain with a political belief is a recipe for a F**k up. That is what happened in the North all too often .Too many Republicans had one eye on their personal wealth to be taken seriously,sadly Eion was a classic example of that mentality.

    Regards.

    Martin

  • Marcellinus

    Clearly an “Ireland of Equals” is just words for you for you to be so flippant, little more than spin.

    There are many people who hold the same views as I do but I guess for you it’s just a case of feck ’em, ‘cos we’ve got the biggest mandate?

    The actions carried out by some Republicans in the name of the Ireland only serves to dishonour the just cause for Irish unity. What I assume to be a pitiful attempt at sarcasm on your part tells everyone that a truly united Ireland, an Ireland of Equals, is a long way off.

    Funny how you choose to ignore the issue of the treason Irishmen who killed their fellow countrymen without any mandate from the people. Sarcasm is easier I guess?

  • Ivan

    I am dissappointed that you found my response “disingenous”. I have looked over it again, and I thought I answered the points you asked me to Martin, instead of slagging off my response to you, ask me what you need more clarification on, I will respond the best I can.
    Again, I do not know, or was I privy to, who conducted the enquiry into Eoins killing. I am aware that Peter says it was MM, but I (or any members of my family) cannot verify this.
    Martin, I stand corrected on the point of calling you a Republican, when in fact you are a nationalist. An easy mistake to make, but make it I did, I apoligise
    Martin, you never covered the point about the supposed “recording” that is in existance in relation to the debriefing that took place after Eoins murder.
    Do you agree that NOW would be the time to release this? As I said Martin, Its alright havin a good hand of cards, but sometime you will have to reveal that hand.
    Martin, If you were privy to that info, would you not release it now?
    I look forward to your response………..

  • All this concern about what Martin McGuinness did and didn’t do, and say in his inquiry into the British covert murder of Eoin Morley essentially escapes me, except as just another red herring by the Brits to cover up again all their dirty work, starting with their assassination of Francisco Notarantonio in October 1987 to keep other players increasingly in the dark about what was really going on.

    And ‘Martin Ingram’s nationalist aims just leads us further afield.

    McGuinness apparently never figured out who killed Morley and why – what a tape of his inquiries would only determine – so why all the concern about what he might have said?

    Murder investigations are supposed to determine who and why they were done, not all the failed attempts along the way.

    And Ivan, how would you physically describe Eoin?

  • ingram

    Ivan,

    Your family are steeped in active Republicanism to say you do not know who carried out that internal inquiry in an area that could not keep any secrets is just not plausable.Not many families would or could have gained an IRA internal inquiry led by a PAC member without being very well connected?

    We shall agree to disagree about your family knowing who conducted the internal IRA investigation on behalf of the IRA.

    Let us move on.

    What we do know though is you did complain to the IRA and the IRA admitted to carrying out that murder.The IRA cleared those volunteers of any wrong doing and it subsequently cleared Eion of being a tout.

    Your family made a formal complaint to the Omdudsman/PSNI about the murder of Eion! that murder is now being investigated by the PSNI.

    What exactly do you and your family want Ivan from that investigation?

    1.Do you want the IRA men arrested and tried for this offence?

    2. Have the police informed you of a decision to interview Martin McGuinness?

    May I ask you did co operate with the police fully and make a detailed statement in respect to those that took part in the operation and those that sanctioned and ordered the operation against Eion?

    Did you name Mooch to the police and give a detailed statement as to why you believe he was involved. Have you co operated with the police to solve the many other crimes that he ( Mooch) and the local IRA committed which rendered many other families in the same position your family are today? if not why not?

    Why do you think senior IRA members have protected Mooch for decades and allowed him to kill many IRA men in the course of his work for a state.?

    In respect to the tape.

    Clearly now that Martin McGuinness has sworn to uphold the law and to coperate FULLY with the Police he will at some stage be making a full statement to the police about these matters.Failure to do so would be a very silly thing to do,I imagine those who are charged with the safe custody of that tape are patiently waiting for the most opportune moment. The Deputy first minister will be questioned as I believe you and your family know as a witness to this murder investigation, his answers will be interesting and informative.

    Best Regards.

    Martin

  • Northsider

    Call me cynical, but it seems Ingram’s concern for the family of Eoin Morley is conditional on it providing more ammunition in his obsessive, soul-destroying crusade to bring down Martin McGuinness.

    Somehow, I don’t think that the ‘tape’ he refers to exists.

    And as for his ‘nationalist’ credentials, well – he certainly worked hard on behalf of an organisation which was instrumental in liberating nationalists from their lives.

    Why anyone would lend him any credibility is beyond me.

    ‘But he exposed Stakeknife!’ comes the siren cry.

    He didn’t. He confirmed what journalists had been fed via other sources.

    And from his feverish doodles on these pages one can infer that he wasn’t ditched from his job due to whistle-blowing…

    It must really sting him to see McGuinness and the SF project flourish – and to see those people (who were targetted by the organisation he worked for) flourish with him, growing in confidence, embracing the promise of this new Ireland, with a new political dispensation.

    It must realy, really, really hurt to see that – and there’s you, holed up in some safe house, hunched over a computer every night, treated as a crank by every journalist in Ireland, and by most of the public who’ve come into contact with you — and you’ve nothing to show for it, and you cann ot even show your face in public.

  • ingram

    Northsider,

    My interest lies in the truth, Ivan knows who was involved in that attack and I suspect he knows there is a tape.

    As long as everybody tells the truth whats the problem! Martin makes a full disclosure as to his role in that IRA investigation and helps the police then there is no problem.

    Ivan needs to give a complete account not a one sided version.

    In respect to Steakknife. I was arrested for leaking that information back in 2000 a few years before he was exposed and I co wrote the best selling book Stakeknife. Freddy sought to have me imprisoned for allged offences under the OSA for compromising his right to confidentiality.

    Sounds like you dont understand this situation.

    Over to you Ivan?

    Regards.

    Martin

  • Northsider

    As long as everybody tells the truth whats the problem!

    Mags Walshaw. Gordon Kerr. Sean Grahams on the Falls Road. Brian Nelson…

    We’re listening…

    Oh, truthtful, honest one.

    I co wrote the best selling book Stakeknife.

    Best-selling? You’re having a laugh.

    A question for you, to establish your bona fides: when are we going to get the ‘bestseller’ on McGuinness?

    A straight answer if you please…

  • Northsider

    Forgot to add:

    where’s the ding ding?

    Or have I touched a nerve?

    Or maybe, put manners on you?

  • Ingram

    Northsider,

    Thanks for reminding me mate.

    Yes it was me who brought Mags into the public debate through the murder of OAP Notorantonio.I also uncovered Gordon Kerr.

    Satkeknife the book is a best seller on its 5th reprint and doing well in the states and Australia. Take a look at the front cove mate if you can read. BEST SELLER.LOL

    Martin McGuinness is only just stepping out upon a very long road that will one day arrive at the same point Freddy Scap and others finaly arrived upon. Martin did his best to protect Scap, even going on TV to defend him but eventually we played our cards at exactly the right time. We shall do the same this time around.

    Martin will be interviewed by the Police shortly Ivan knows that, it is a shame Ivan could not come back and answer the questions posed about both Martin and Mooch . Ivan knows the protection offered to these serial Agents by very senior IRA figures.

    It is just a shame that he cannot be honest in his one sided appraisal of the murder of his brother but I never expected him to come back and tell us that he has done his bit to bring justice to many who fell victims to the IRA double agents.

    One last chance Ivan! over to you mate.

    Ding Ding

    Martin

  • Marty, you are thanking Northsider for reminding you of telling the truth about ‘Mag’s, Kerr, Nelson, etc., when all you can do is little more than claim that you identified their existence?

    And what little you imply about ‘Mag’s role in killing Notarantonio is not true since the UDA has always denied that it ever targeted Scap aka ‘Stake knife’.

    And books can go through many reprintings because publishers don’t want to be left with many unsold copies on their hands. And the key to selling copies is spin about sales.

    I am sorry that Ivan has not provided a description of his brother – what he can obviously do – rather than what you request – vague speculation about what Martin McGuinness and Mooch Blair might know and have said about his brother’s activities and murder.

    And you do not have a good record about predictions, starting with Scap, the Northern Bank job, the McCartney murder, the Ballymena feud, Donaldson murder, MM’s and SF’s downfall, etc, ad nauseam.

    Ding Ding

  • Pardon the mistake in the above post. Meant Ballymurphy feud.

  • Roisin

    Ding Ding Man,

    [i]but eventually we played our cards at exactly the right time. We shall do the same this time around.[/i]

    Who’s “we”?

  • Mordechai

    Forgive me for asking: but who or what is the leadership of the IRA? If that isn’t an impertinent question, Monsieur.