“Either there is law or no law.”

Whether there are any rabbits left in that hat or not, the policy that is Processing™ suggests that fudge is on the menu.. again. In the meantime, as well as public cheques being used to move paramilitary groups on, other issues rumble on in the background. In Lurgan, police investigating a suspicious death have come under attack on two consecutive days – one man has already been arrested and bailed. ‘While in Crossmaglen, where the week began with violent attacks on police and ambulance crews after a military helicopter crashed near a housing estate on Sunday, the police station was attacked last night with petrol bombs and there were also reports of automatic gunfire.Seems worthwhile reposting a quote from the late Mgr Denis Faul, whose comment I noted when considering the long-term effect of The Process™

“Either there is law or no law. That is the basis of a civilised society”

, , ,

  • Add together these incidents with new ones true and manufactured in the next six weeks and the DUP/UDA will be in a stronger position to say no without getting flack, as they would now.

    This just another smoke screen and if allowed to happen it is just delaying the inevitable of no to power sharing on better terms for the DUP/UDA.

    However, if the DUP/UDA are sincere then let them approach Sinn Fein directly and offer an olive branch and request the six week delay.

  • Henry94

    “Either there is law or no law. That is the basis of a civilised society”

    With all due respect to Fr. Faul that is nonsense. The law serves the citizen and not the other way around. Did he tell he police every time he know of a law being broken? Not if he heard it in confession. So he had his exceptions too.

    As does everybody. If you were at a party where dope was smoked would you inform the PSNI?

    There is no test of the citizen in relation to the law. You either keep the law or you break it in a particular case. If the police believe you broke it then it is for them to prove it.

    The more support they have in the community the easier their job is but support is earned and they have to earn it over time.

  • SuperSoupy

    I refer you to Aquinas’ First Precept of Law (again) since you’ve been getting on Catholic on our asses – the Catholic prime directive on these matters.

    Law is secondary to doing good and preventing evil in Catholic doctrine.

  • Pete Baker

    SS

    “Law is secondary to doing good and preventing evil in Catholic doctrine.”

    You may want to refine your rebuttal [again] of this point to avoid certain assumptions being drawn from your comment – on the law being secondary to subjective assessments.

    Oh, and it’s more a case of catholic.. rather than Catholic.

    Henry

    “You either keep the law or you break it in a particular case.”

    That sounds very similar to a recently noted comment

    As for – “The law serves the citizen and not the other way around.”

    If anything, it’s more a case of a mutually beneficial contract between government and the citizen.

  • Henry94

    Pete

    It was you who introduced Fr Faul to the discussion. I have shown that he would have and must have withheld information from the police in certain circumstances as would any Catholic Priest bound by the seal of the Confessional.

    That you revert to “I’m against all religion stance” having introduced a Priest to support you utterly confused understanding of policing in principle, the policing debate, and the Sinn Fein position on policing is comical.

    Again I ask if you would report all crime to the police in all circumstances. Or would you use your judgement

  • SuperSoupy

    Pete,

    Regardless of our shared atheism, in recent days you have quoted Augustine and now Faul in relation to Law and its acceptance.

    Aquinas is the accepted catholic authority on these matters and as noted above even Faul will reject the law for the confessional on the basis of the First Precept.

    If you are using catholic dogma to support arguments on law it is only right to point out in catholic philosophy law comes a poor second to doing good and preventing evil on a personal level.

    Law is a poor second relation to doing the right thing in catholic teaching.

  • Pete Baker

    Simply repeating your comments doesn’t constitute a discussion, guys.

    But if you insist on repetition..

    SS

    I’ve quoted many people, quite catholic in my quotations actually..

    Again..

    You may want to refine your rebuttal [again] of this point to avoid certain assumptions being drawn from your comment – on the law being secondary to subjective assessments – Re: “Law is a poor second relation to doing the right thing in catholic [Catholic, surely?] teaching.”

    Henry

    I’m not, by the way, quoting a Catholic priest for the sake of it.. I’m quoting someone who has made a pertinent point on this issue.

    And again.. in response to your argument – “The law serves the citizen and not the other way around.”

    If anything, it’s more a case of a mutually beneficial contract between government and the citizen.

  • SuperSoupy

    You badly quote Augustine, then ignore Aquinas, then reject all religion but still claim it supports your point, then quote a priest but still ignore Aquinas and reject religion again but claim your point is substansiated by these religious figures.

    *shrugs and walks off*

    Whatever.

  • Pete Baker

    Yeah, SS, ’cause the post was all about religion..

    Whatever, indeed.

  • SuperSoupy

    It was you using religious quotes to support another anti-SF contribution.

    I quoted the central tenant of catholic views on law which are essentially Platoan.

    Law comes after doing right on a personal level. Only*authoritarians tend to argue against this concept.

    *or those that will twist theology and philosphy to attack SF

  • Observer

    Not sure what the post was about.

  • Pete Baker

    “It was you using religious quotes to support another anti-SF contribution.”

    Whatever.

    Check back on what I’ve actually written.

    My entire post is above. And, despite your apparent paranoia, I’ve not referred to any party.. because it’s not a party political issue..

    At least not for me.

  • heck

    Either there is law or no law. That is the basis of a civilised society. That is the basis of a civilised society.

    Sorry to be pedantic but it depends on what you mean by “Law”. If you mean the ability of the state to enforce its rule then Sadam’s Iraq had “law and order”. Before honest Tony’s illegal war Iraqis could walk the street in safety and there was a civil code. But it was hardly civilized- at least not in my opinion. ( And bush and Blair have made it infinitely worse –they have created chaos and opened the gates of hell to the Iraqi people!!)

    The rule of law is the tool through which the citizen controls the state-not the other way round. The state and its agents have to be bound by the law for the law to be “the basis of a civilized society”.

    Based on your statement “Either there is law or no law”, I guess that in Nor Iron there is no law.