Not enough for Robinson?

The Irish Times sources believe what is presently on offer is not enough to satisfy the concerns of DUP Deputy Leader Peter Robinson. His support is viewed as critical to success.

  • Gilbert-Paul Jeannon

    The Unionist veto once again denying us an opportunity to have democratic government.

    It is about time that the DUP decomissioned their stockpiles of excuses to govern with Sinn Fein.

    The DUP have not proved to the republican / nationalist electorate that they can be trusted to use their electorate mandate in a non-sectarian way.

  • Neil Harris

    To say that Peter Robinson is not satisfied by what is presently on offer is to put a spin on Frank Millar’s piece, FD. It is disingenuous of you.

    It appears that senior DUP figures don’t want to jump now but have no deep principled objection to jumping in a month or two. Peter R’s only concern is that the DUP should be given more time if it wants it.

    What is on offer seems perfectly acceptable to Peter Robinson. He just wants it to still be on offer in a month or two, if the DUP wants to walk away now.

  • observer

    The DUP have not proved to the republican / nationalist electorate that they can be trusted to use their electorate mandate in a non-sectarian way.

    it is up to sinn fein/ira, who worked to murder protestants for a generation, to prove they have given up their sectarian campaign

  • Harris

    “Not enough for Robinson?”

    Honestly, what are two more months going to give the DUP/Robinson, that they don’t already have? Letting the 26th slip away in order to prove a point to Hain that they won’t be ‘condition led’, would be the most egregious form of disregard for NI voters and their so-called democratic process.

  • Greenflag

    This was Paisley’s election . The election was on March 7th . The date March 26th for making a decision on devolved Government was set by Mr Hain last October following the failure of the previous November deadline .

    ‘It appears that senior DUP figures don’t want to jump now but have no deep principled objection to jumping in a month or two.’

    This is complete and utter shite reasoning . What is going to change in a month or two that makes jumping then preferable to jumping now ?

    Peter Hain should stop feeding the crocodile -Just close down the Assembly for good and consign Paisley & co to the political oblivion where he belongs ! *&*&^%#* charlatan /gobshite ! Bring on Plan B!

  • Harris

    And yet, more shite from Paisley!

    http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=81039&pt=n

  • Greenflag

    From the First Minister in waiting ( in bed that is )

    ‘we need more than Republic of Ireland euros, we need the British Exchequer to start making sacrifices for the people of Northern Ireland.’

    or in palin english

    Never mind the 6 billion a year subvention that’s all been wasted . I need more than that because God told me last night in a dream . After all youse have only been paying me for doing nothin for the past four years why should you stop now ! I want more do you hear me mammy ! I want more – wah wah wah wah wah I won’t stop whining till you give me more wah wah wah !

    Pathethic is the only word that comes close . Hoisted and petard are two that also spring to mind 🙁

  • Crataegus

    What exactly are the DUP waiting for?

    Is it more money?

    If so for what exactly?

    Is it SF and if so what specifically do they want them to do.

    Is it because they haven’t the balls to go into government?

    Is it because their party may implode if they do go into government.

    Is it because they are playing some stupid juvenile game? Ya Boo Hain we won’t play to your rules, we are boss here?

    It seems puerile, juvenile, asinine and utterly cowardly.

    What is the difference between March and May, do we all have to dance round the May pole first?

    End the veto.

  • fair_deal

    Neil Harris

    “It is disingenuous of you.”

    I suggest you actually read what I wrote.

    1. The title includes a question mark, it is not an emphatic statement.
    2. The text clearly identifies where the claim is coming from “The Irish Times sources”. It does not directly attribute it to Peter Robinson.
    3. An extra two months is not “presently on offer”.

  • circles

    Calm down now folks – its all just a load of politics.
    The DUP don’t actually want more, but need to be seen to be hesitant before going into government for the sake of form.
    SF didn’t actually expect the 26th to work but can now be seen displaying patience despite the disappointment, and may tut and hiss but only for the sake of form.
    The British government can gently place their arm around the shoulder of the DUP and be seen to be pandering a wee bit to the trembling lower lips, acting like they actually care, but of course all just for the sake of form.
    And Bertie will stay true to form and keep at it.

    But don’t worry – its all gonna be alright.

  • Aaron McDaid

    Why should the government care about DUP unity? The vast majority of the people and their MLAs want devolved government (as opposed to closing up shop alogether) – so it doesn’t matter whether they are in 10 parties or in 1 party. If anything, the pro-GFA split of the DUP will be more inclined to make it work in order to keep the anti-s down.

    Blair knows there is enough support among Unionist MPs to push this through if he sticks to the deadline. Maybe Blair will secretely enjoy splitting the DUP after they caused him so much trouble?

    Blair knows NI is much more important to Paisley’s legacy, than it is to his own legacy. Blair knows he’ll be judged by Iraq, not over whether an already-peaceful NI gets devolved government.

    But then again, the twat will probably blink…

  • circles

    “But then again, the twat will probably blink…”

    As much as he makes my skin crawl, a blink here wouldn’t do a bit of harm – its not important. The deal is done and we’re just tidying up the rough edges now, and a wee bit of flexibility is needed (if indeed it isn’t already part of the choreography). Forcing this through won’t split the DUP, but will rather unify them as they close ranks to fight of the “arrogance”.

    “Blair knows NI is much more important to Paisley’s legacy, than it is to his own legacy”
    Paisley’s legacy is in the bag – I don’t think there are too many people on the fence about what his influence may have been, and whatever way he hops now will not greatly change that. I really don’t think Papa Doc worries about this either way. Blair though could do with this a little more, and probably does spend time wondering how he’ll be remembered.

  • Dewi

    From the Paisley Article

    He (Paisley) accused Mr Brown of denying Northern Ireland its birth right to have a competitive Corporation Tax, comparable to the 12.5% level in the Irish Republic.

    Birthright ???

  • circles

    Sorry if i digress but just saw another quote of the Papa Doc that was on a par with the corporation tax :
    “Line dancing is as sinful as any other type of sexual gestures and touchings. It is sensual … an excitement to lust”

    Ans I always though an excitement to lust was my birthright 🙁

  • Dread Cthulhu

    From the Paisley Article: “He (Paisley) accused Mr Brown of denying Northern Ireland its birth right to have a competitive Corporation Tax, comparable to the 12.5% level in the Irish Republic. ”

    Dewi: “Birthright ??? ”

    Poor choice of words, but the broader concept — the inability to compete with one’s regional neighbors, is a logical one. How this reconciles with wanting to remain within the Union is debatable, as it would seem he wants to have his cake (the Union) and eat it, too (Independent rate-setting power, presumably with a guarantee that the British will subsidize this rate with other wealth-transfers).

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Paisley: ““Line dancing is as sinful as any other type of sexual gestures and touchings. It is sensual … an excitement to lust” ”

    My, such an exciting and cultured individual… likely has heart palpatations over the bridge column in the paper.

  • overhere

    “birthright” Was he reading from the good book before hand and got mixed up somewhere along the way

    How much long does he think the UK tax payers are going to put up with this garbage, we have been proping the state up since 1921.

    The Little Shop of Horrors is currently on show here in London maybe we should get him a ticket and afterwards ask if it reminds him of anyone.

  • Crataegus

    If Paisley is looking for more money or special tax rates then he needs to put it in the context of special case and it will save Westminster money in the long term.

  • Ian

    I agree with the comment about Paisley wanting to have the cake and eat it.

    “What is really needed are measures which will allow our economy to grow in future years and be less of an economic drag on the rest of the United Kingdom.”

    One measure which would achieve that springs immediately to mind – establishing a United Ireland.

  • Dewi

    Very easy way to get the same Corporation Tax Rate as the South………

  • Ian

    … and the same fuel duty.

  • Henry94

    and Sinn Fein out of government forever

  • USA

    That is an irony I had not considered, within a United Ireland the combined Unionist vote, FG, Greens etc could conspire to keep Sinn Fein out of power. A United Ireland may actually end any hopes Sinn Fein have of gaining power.
    Cute, but I don’t think this arguement would hold much sway in Larne, East Belfast etc. Besides, within a United Ireland many Sinn Fein supporters would consider it a job well done, and wander off into a happy retirement.

  • inuit_goddess

    South coming back into the UK then?

  • Ian

    “That is an irony I had not considered, within a United Ireland the combined Unionist vote, FG, Greens etc could conspire to keep Sinn Fein out of power. A United Ireland may actually end any hopes Sinn Fein have of gaining power.”

    Actually, that might be true at the moment but if Sinn Fein continue to grow at the rate they have up to now (thanks largely to Unionist intransigence), then by the time a United Ireland comes about they may be a bigger player both borth and south.

    Conversely, if Unionists had gone for a United Ireland 20 years ago they’d probably never have heard of Sinn Fein again.

  • DUP saying “More, More” reminds me of Oliver Twist

  • Greenflag

    Dread Chtulu,

    ‘it would seem he wants to have his cake (the Union) and eat it, too (Independent rate-setting power, presumably with a guarantee that the British will subsidize this rate with other wealth-transfers).’

    The DUP and ultimate Unionist dilemma .Somewhere over the rainbow there’s always a crock of gold and the British Government will always replenish said crock whenever it’s empty.

    I always knew that paying these MLA’s for 4 years without the buggers doing any work was a bad idea . Now not only do they think the world owes them a living but that they are also entitled to bonuses :

  • John East Belfast

    Brown should also have told Paisley if he thought a 9% Stamp Duty Rate, 21% VAT and 41% Top Rate of Income tax kicking in at a lower income level was also his birth right.

    The ROI has to raise its Revenue from somewhere if it decides to trade FDI & Jobs against lower Corporate Tax Rate.

    Here in NI we not only want our own cake but we want a few slices of somebody else’s as well.

    Although Crataegus makes the point that asking for Tax Cuts will (May?) lead to sustained reduction in Exchequer expenditure down the line – this point does not seem to be very well made.

    It wasnt even made very well in the CBI speeches at the dinner last night

    But it should be said a 12.5% Corporate Tax Rate could equally be made for Scotland, Wales and northern England as well.

    Brown needs the 28% to bleed the successful South East and is happy to slip subsidies to the regions to avoid upsetting the applecart.

  • Greenflag

    ‘Conversely, if Unionists had gone for a United Ireland 20 years ago they’d probably never have heard of Sinn Fein again. ‘

    On the other hand had Unionists accepted Home Rule in 1912 there would have been no Irish Free State – no Northern Ireland State and no troubles . All Ireland would have remained within the UK although with a devolved Parliament .We’d have been a full participant in World War 11 with the Allies . There would have been no 1916 no War of Independence no De Valera or Mick Collins or IRA or Ian Paisley no Civil War and no northern troubles 1969 to the present .There would have been no peace process lasting 40 years . We probably would have lost more lives when you factor in the extra number of lives that would have been lost in World War 2 as against those lost in the War of Independence /Irish Civil War/and Northern ‘Troubles’.

    As against that we’d be something like modern Scotland or Wales. There would have been no Celtic tiger economy and our membership in the EU would have been as part of the UK . Consequently we would not have done as well out of membership ?

    I would like at this point because it’s Friday halt all further conjecture and instead offer a heartfelt thanks to our Northern Unionist neighbours for being the natural born stubborn backward bastards they always have been:) For without them and their political parties collective dimness in the matter of compromise in politics we in the Republic would not be where we are today 🙂

    Keep saying NO -Rev Paisley! It’s the secret to the Republic’s greatness 🙂 It’s good for us . We can handle rejection . And we hope you can to when the time comes !

  • From the Paisley Article: “He (Paisley) accused Mr Brown of denying Northern Ireland its birth right to have a competitive Corporation Tax, comparable to the 12.5% level in the Irish Republic. “

    Am i right in thinking Paisley wants a united Ireland Corporation tax, now thats a first !!

  • Greenflag

    JohnEastBelfast

    ‘But it should be said a 12.5% Corporate Tax Rate could equally be made for Scotland, Wales and northern England as well. ‘

    It certainly could . NI can hoever plead special case given it’s land frontier with the Republic and it’s troubled history in recent decades . As against that EU rules apparently restrict national governments from having different rates internally .

    Anyway this 12.5% is a red herring . It could have made a major difference 20 years ago but Northern Ireland has missed the boat and can now only hope to attract major investment from the Republic’s fast growing private sector and perhaps local spin offs feeding into the multinationals in ROI. Most of the large international investment projects are now headed east to Asia /Eastern Europe and South America .
    Timing is everything both in economics and in politics and given the direct relationship between both if you’ve been a slouch for 40 years in the field of politics then you have to expect that this will have had a major impact on your economy.

    35 years wasted and for what ? So that Paisley can be First Minister and McGuiness as his Deputy . And now Paisley is demanding 8 weeks getting ready for bed time ? Even Peter Robinson admits it will be a battle a day !

    Bizarre and a sure recipe for another failure in the ever lengthening list of failures to restore some form of locally representative government in NI.

    Has anybody thought of just giving up on politics in NI and outsourcing it to China. Maybe the new MLA Ann Lo could be made FM? She could recruit her 12 Ministers direct from Hong Kong to do the business . Give them 100,000 each and pay the local 108 MLA’s their salaries as long as they stay at home and don’t open their mouths for a decade !

  • John East Belfast

    Greenflag

    very funny

    but on a serious note when I hear southern commentators rightly esteem the celtic Tiger are they not often missing the point that its is an early nineties plus phenomenon ?

    ie at least two generations of Irish Free Staters had pretty miserable existances – have their heads not just been trampled on to get to where the post 60s boom children are now enjoying ?

    ie it wasnt always the paradise you are now espousing ?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    JEB: “ie at least two generations of Irish Free Staters had pretty miserable existances – have their heads not just been trampled on to get to where the post 60s boom children are now enjoying ? ”

    As opposed to, what, the floundering time-capsule that is Northern Ireland?

  • pith

    What’s all this about Peter Robinson being a Unionist? Where’s the evidence?

  • Greenflag

    John East Belfast :

    ‘ie it wasnt always the paradise you are now espousing ?

    Paradise ? Not a believer in any paradise JEB.
    I refer you to Professor Joe Lee’s excellent history of Ireland 1912 to 1969 in which he compares the economic performance of both Northern Ireland and the Irish Free State later the Irish Republic . You could learn a lot form a perusal . Lee doesn’t pull any punches re North or South .

    And no it was not just a 90’s phenonemon . From 1958 to 1982 the Republic experienced steady growth . Although the growth rates were nothing like those of the 90’s they were significantly higher than in the period up the mid 1950’s . The Second World War gave the NI economy an impetus but it’s performance 1920 to 1940 was just as anemic as that of the Free State . Worse in fact when you consider that NI received an annual subvention from the British Exchequer wheras the Free State got nothing !

    ‘very funny ‘

    I wish it was . It’s not a good sign when the political truth is funnier than fiction!

  • John East Belfast

    Dread

    “As opposed to, what…”

    as opposed to nothing actually

    Greenflag was satirically thanking NI for enabling the ROI since Partition to experience success and I simply pointed out that a couple of generations of ROI citisens did not experience it.

    However if you must bring NI into the discussion then if you very simply consider that NI GDP per head exceeded ROI until when …… I dont know but I suspect it is until around 1998 ?

    Then taking Greenflag’s thinking a little further you could say around 8 million Irish people lived and died post partition with a standard of living less than they could have enjoyed if they had remained as he says like Scotland and Wales.

    Therfeore those people and their lost income have to be factored into any thinking today of any economic success of the Celtic Tiger ?

    ….although I wouldnt take it all too seriously !

  • the process is the policy

    Aye

  • George

    All this talk about the 12.5% corporate tax rate, someone should tell Paisley that he can have it if he thinks it will help.

    The Republic is moving and making an attempt at the creation of a fourth-level economy. Now that will take more than a tax break.

    John East Belfast,

    The Republic’s GDP growth rate has been growing above the UK average for a full 50 years now. It’s not simply a 90s phenomenon.

    Granted it was helped by the World Bank being on the UK’s doorstep in the 70s.

    The Republic’s GDP was ahead of NI’s a good few years before 1998 and more importantly it is built on sturdier foundations.

    For example, the Republic is creating approximately tens times as many jobs a year as NI.

  • John East Belfast

    George

    “The Republic’s GDP was ahead of NI’s a good few years before 1998 ”

    when ?

  • George

    John East Belfast,
    unfortunately it’s not that easy to get any information on Northern Ireland but it happened some time between 1980 and 1994.

    I would guess 1990-1992.

    Looking at the current situation, according to the CIA Factbook the UK’s GDP per capita in 2006 was 72% of the Republic’s.

    As Northern Ireland’s GDP per capita is 80% of the UK’s that means its GDP per capita is 57% of the Republic’s now.

    Not a big fan of GDP per capita myself but seeing as you brought it up, that is the current situation.

  • George

    When I say “it happened” I mean the crossover where the GDP per capita of the Republic passed out Northern Ireland.

  • Observer

    Some ask above why the DUP want more time …

    Has SF/IRA accepted the Police Service of Northern Ireland … NO!

    Has SF/IRA accepted the rule of law in this region of the U.K. … NO!

    Has SF/IRA demonstrated its commitment to all of this … NO!

    Words but NO action!

    And in the meantime while Ulster Unionists sat on the fence they were the ones seeking to ‘finish the job’ back in 2003.

    The DUP is offering strong leadership. They are a strong team.

    Many, including myself cringe at the picture of McGuinness representing Northern Ireland abroad. Mind you I’d be pleased to see him representing this region of the U.K. like Baba’s does in the European Parliament. What was their ‘war’ about really? What did Billy Sands die for exactly?

    Therefore a credible testing period is required.

    Blair and Co. are stupid if they do not offer the DUP somemore time. After all they’ve offer SF/IRA sweet cakes over the last 10 years.

    A split in the DUP would be disasterous for the DUP and for Northern Ireland. Mind you many of you may wish for that. Especially some of the so called ‘Ulster’ Unionists.

    I for one wouldn’t want that to happen.

  • Henry94

    Observer

    A split in the DUP would be disasterous for the DUP and for Northern Ireland. Mind you many of you may wish for that. Especially some of the so called ‘Ulster’ Unionists.

    Where’s Jeffery? It is raising self-pity to an art form to complain about the Ulster Unionists taking pleasure in the thought of a split in the DUP.

    Just because you are orange doesn’t mean you should have a memory like a goldfish.

    You clinging to the policing issue like a comfort blanket to protect your from power-sharing shows how un-serious you are about it in reality.

  • circles

    Observer you said “Many, including myself cringe at the picture of McGuinness representing Northern Ireland abroad.”
    How would you feel about having the self made “Rev. Dr.” Paisley representing the north abroad? With a phoney doctorate, his own religion, political party, orange order and most persisitently negative public image of anybody to ever come out of this place – I cannot imagine that that would make anybody proud.
    McGuinness is the voice of reason and flexibility compared to Paisley. If it wasn’t for McGuinnes and his party there would have been no change in the situation.
    Paisley and his followers had to be dragged kickin and screaming along the road to a settlement. SF did not cause the problems in the north (nor did the IRA) but were rather a symptom of the society – left to Paisley there would never have been a change.

  • “natural born stubborn backward bastards”

    Calm down, Green Flag. You may be rather more unpleasant and bigoted than you normally let on, but surely you’d rather people didn’t know?

    Come to think of it, has anyone thought of outsourcing you to China? Perhaps your single transferable post, and its bile, would still be novel there.

  • Who Benefits

    A very interesting discusion about the DUP and their ‘strong team’ who will not only be strong against Sinn Fien and the IRA but will also ‘be strong’ about other orange agendas that go along side the other ones of “NO” and “Where’s OUR Money” namely: “We Demand Majority Rule’ ‘cos Mark Durkan will not go into government without Sinn Fien….