“I think a more sinister element returned later..”

The ambulance crews are now safely out of the area, but the wreckage of the crashed helicopter remained until its removal today and police who were at the scene came under repeated attack yesterday and last night. This time the “kids with snowballs” had armed themselves with petrol bombs, numbering 30 in this report but the figure quoted on Talkback by a polioce spokesman was 70 – which is the number given here – as well as other missiles. MP for the area, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy has been widely quoted today, referring to a “sinister element” and “political influences” being behind the attacks.

“Our people were on the ground trying to get them to desist from the attacks,” he said. “I’m not sure it was well organised but I do suspect other influences there – political influences – but I can’t say that for sure.”

From the Belfast Telegraph report

Mr Murphy, who was at the scene until 10pm, today described the attacks as “unorganised” and claimed that those behind them only served to harm their own community.

“Our people were on the ground trying to get them to desist from the attacks,” he said.

“I’m not sure it was well organised but I do suspect other influences there – political influences – but I can’t say that for sure.”

Mr Murphy said parents and the community safety group also weighed in in what they believed was a successful bid to stop the youths.

Another frenzied attack, however, resumed before midnight.

“Our presumption was that things had settle down by 10pm,” said Mr Murphy. “I think a more sinister element returned later in the evening.”

And from the BBC report

He said Sinn Fein representatives in the area had talked to parents after the initial attacks and were able to get them stopped.

However, he said some youths returned at about midnight and resumed the violence.

He said those who did so “perhaps had more of an agenda to work out there”.

The Newry and Armagh MP said he would speak with people in the area on Tuesday.

“If I think that there is any information from the people who caused damage to the community last night it should be passed on to to the police, because those people who came later on and attacked only succeeded in harming their own community,” he said.

While in the Irish Times breaking news report

Chief Supt Bobby Hunniford said today: “Thankfully no one was injured but the blatant disregard for human life is deplorable. This isn’t the first time this has happened and it cannot be allowed to continue.

“In this era of wanting to move forward, it is totally unacceptable that police and other emergency services are met with bricks, bottles and petrol bombs when they respond to a call.”

And the best way to do that is for those responsible to be held to account in the courts.

, , , ,

  • BogExile

    ‘parents and the community safety group also weighed in in what they believed was a successful bid to stop the youths.’

    Hmm yes, presumably along the lines of: ‘Hi youse, stap wastin’ snow when there’s good stolen petrol ta thow.’ etc.

    If that’s successful parental control then I’m a Republican.

  • Nevin

    “the community safety group”

    Is this an alternative ‘policing’ organisation?

  • circles

    “Chief Supt Bobby Hunniford said today: “Thankfully no one was injured but the blatant disregard for human life is deplorable. This isn’t the first time this has happened and it cannot be allowed to continue.”

    Thankfully, a voice of sanity crying out in the wilderness! Well said Supt Hunniford – the sooner these death traps are prevented from flying over vilian areas the better!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Hmm yes, presumably along the lines of: ‘Hi youse, stap wastin’ snow when there’s good stolen petrol ta thow.’ etc.’

    Another pointless thread inviting the trolls to comment and sure enough from under the bridge they come.
    Has this already not been covered on another thread or is this duplication simply a means of keeping the topic at the top of the site and thus inviting the trolling.

    PB you are increasingly shameless in your tactics.

  • circles

    😉 vilian = civilian
    (the dangers of a laptop keyboard on battery power)

  • BogExile

    I think it is an extremely entertaining way of baiting humourless neo-republican agit prop specialists into demcomissioning meself 🙂

  • circles

    yeah whatever BE

  • BogExile

    Trollin, trollin, trollin
    Keep them comments rollin’
    Pokin silly Shinners
    Thin Hides!

    It’s just a mere distraction
    But your grim faced reaction
    Does no credit to your sunny side!

    THIN HIDE!

    (repeat until sense of humour regained)

    🙂

  • Belfastwhite

    Don’t feed the trolls especially the master troll PB!

  • Pete Baker

    To all

    Play the ball!

    And in case it escaped anyone’s notice that centres on the attacks on the police detailed in the original post and the subsequent quotes – not the attacks on the ambulance crews on Sunday.

  • Henry94

    Pete

    I had a post removed which compared you to Andrew McCann. Did he complain?

  • RD

    Henry,
    as Pete noted earlier “Mick’s taking a well-deserved break for a few days but he’ll be back soon”.

    Not wishing to be unkind to Mick, but it’s kind of like Blair going on holiday and leaving Prescott in charge.

  • Cuthbert

    There have been threads here on Slug that I have considered “questionable”. I have commented. I have been moderated and I have read and engaged with a variety of opinions. I listen to, and debate with, all shades of opinion but tell me why I, or visitors to this site, should have to endure the hateful narrow mindedness of SF sycophancy. The hypocrisy of “telling” others they are “anonymous trolls”, critising others for “shameless tactics”, feigning concern about “integrity of the site” (no pun intended), preferring to see the splinter in the eye of the other instead of the tree in your own eye. An identifiable personality on Slug is not obligatory is it? What’s more, avoiding such a thing lessens the risk of ad hominem irrelevancies surely?

    As I see it, this thread, (as was the other), was not about “SF” rather to draw considerations about the professionalism of our MP. There is a difference. How he dealt with this matter is not a trivial matter and warrants debate, especially if he is to be involved in the running of the country. Progress will be made when SF stop putting party-power first and self interest before all else. Conor Murphy MP called this one wrong and deserves to be shown. This thread is less about “SF” and more about one man’s ineptitude. Let’s move on? FFS, “Snowballs!!!”

  • New Yorker

    When are SF going to put some manners on these dregs?

  • SuperSoupy

    Slugger bloggers,

    You will be relieved to know the helicopter has been removed.

    This story will now end without you once having to address the issue of a miltary helicopter falling from the sky in a populated area and you managed to get in several digs at the shinners somehow.

    Mission accomplished – all issues but one ignored and some spun from thin area. Good job.

  • vor

    SuperSoupy, your patronising tone is offensive. If you feel agrieved at something not having been included on a thread, then why not take it up with Mick? It may be that a majority of people just do not agree with you and see things differently. Either way, tell some one who cares but don’t make us suffer your impetuous cries. Please?

  • SuperSoupy

    vor,

    I wasn’t talking to you. So take your melodrama to some one that gives a feck.

  • Henry94

    vor (and you’re very welcome. I haven’t come accross your contributions before.)

    Mick also thinks that complaining to him is the solution. I don’t agree. I think Pete should post whatever he wants. If I don’t think it makes sense I’ll comment to that effect.

    That’s why we are all here and I hope you enjoy your stay.

  • mickhall

    Soupy makes a good point about bringin an end to these military flights, however there is no report of Mr Murphy commenting about this here, it seems he preferred to play to the media’s agenda and condemn the locals who were clearly protesting about the presence of such flights, especially when they all but fall on their heads.

    OK the youngsters were clearly not up to speed on the new political reality a la SF, but that is no reason to turn on your own so publicly simply to placate Paisley and the Viceroy.

    No occupation, no military flights, no crash, no protest, no demos, violent or otherwise, simple really.

  • SuperSoupy

    Mick,

    Both Murphy (SF) and Bradley (SDLP) raised the ending of the flights and safety concerns.

    Just because the blogger’s here thought it was not a ‘notable’ side of the story doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    Don’t assume you are getting the full story via these blogs, it’s a point a few have raised.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    mickhall,

    I saw a snippet of CM bringing up why these flights are still being used to make life a misery for the people of Cross and other places. Obviously these have ended up in the cutting room floor as indeed the media agenda you have alluded to went into overdrive.

    It seems the Brirish army and their hangers-on on this sites till hark back to a bygone era when playing wargames in their expensive toys, all to keep the likes of Danny Kennedy quiet were the norm.

    No, in the headlong rush to get something on SF, afterall things are getting harder by the day, a real analysis of what happened anf why has gone by the board.
    Why are such flights needed? I would bet that the crime figures in that part of the world are some of the lowest in Ireland, yet unionists need their comfort blanket.

  • circles

    I still think this should have been the headline:
    “If I think that there is any information from the people who caused damage to the community last night it should be passed on to to the police”

  • Observer

    “The ambulance crews are now safely out of the area,..”
    Pete Baker

    “And in case it escaped anyone’s notice that centres on the attacks on the police detailed in the original post and the subsequent quotes – not the attacks on the ambulance crews on Sunday.”

    Difficult to see where people became confused, isn’t it Pete.

  • jone

    CM was on BBC Newsline last night making the point about the continuing flights.

    I also notice that while Ian jnr was pontificating on UTV last night the beeb didn’t give him the time of day.

  • mickhall

    Soupy and Pat,

    You both make fair points.

    Regards.

  • honesty doesn’t pay

    “I would bet that the crime figures in that part of the world are some of the lowest in Ireland, yet unionists need their comfort blanket.” – Pat McLarnon

    Considering that smuggling is absolutely bloody rife in the area >>>>> illegal>>>> CRIME

    Fraudulent claims to the DHSS from local people working in the agricultural industry>>>>> illegal>>>>>CRIME

    This area is the European capital of illegally doctored diesel>>>>> illegal>>>>CRIME

    Fraudulent applications for grants to the EEC that came from this area was the highest in Europe >>>>>> illegal>>>>CRIME

    The farmers in this area that burned their own cattle on the tounge and lips with white hot needles creating blisters trying to make it look like Foot and Mouth to milk the compensation board of grants>>>>> illegal>>>CRIME

    Mystery insurance fires, multi whiplash claims, battery eggs sold as free range, people smuggling from eastern europe, stolen cars broken for parts.

    LOWEST CRIME…….. I DON’T THINK SO!!!!
    LOWEST REPORTED CRIME…. PROBABLY

    THEN AGAIN WITH SO MANY CRIMINALS IN THE AREA IT’S HARDLY SURPRISING AS THEY WON’T BE REPORTING THEMSELVES

  • Henry94

    honesty doesn’t pay

    Welcome to Slugger. It’s always nice to meet new contributors. A little tip for you to start out. Posting in caps is considered bad form. Anyway, see you around the threads and enjoy you stay.

  • SuperSoupy

    Henry,

    Great to see so many new people connecting, people sharing a connection. The more of them the merrier.

  • honesty doesn’t pay

    Thanks Jim i’ll try and remember about the caps

  • New Yorker

    honesty doesn’t pay,

    I’m sure Pat can assure you these local sports no longer take place as SF supports the police and the criminal justice system.

  • Paul Rea

    Pat, how long has Curly Top been supporting the police and criminal justice system? Think The Coleen McCullough case will tell us much?

  • susan

    I wondered when you would realise “Colleen McCullough” is the author of “The THorn Birds” Paul.

    Welcome, honesty doesn’t pay. Interesting point about “battery eggs sold as free range.” Bracing myself for Slugger’s first rant against insidious “Free Range B•stards.”

    Vor, far from being shrill or “imperious,” I found SuperSoupy’s point about the safety of these flights measured and apt.

    Detaining and/or harassing ambulances and their crews shows a callous disregard for human safety and human life. So did the decision to fly that craft in those weather conditions in such a densely populated civilian area.

    The initial news reports quoted both Dominic Bradley and Conor Murphy making that point. Everyone who was out keeping the peace and helping to prevent greater hazard to the injured and to civilians deserves thanks. Take a look at this photograph on its own:

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42697000/jpg/_42697735_helicopter203.jpg

    Someone on the earlier thread, I believe it was Crategeus, made the point that when you interfere with an ambulance, you never know when you or your own might need one. And that is true. But look at that photograph and consider too how another strong gust of wind would have meant the helicopter, the crew, those homes and their inhabitants engulfed in a horror of smoke and flame. And that is also unacceptable.

  • Henry94

    susan

    Bracing myself for Slugger’s first rant against insidious “Free Range B•stards

    Excellent.

  • blogrus

    Just a few months ago, CM would have been supporting the attacks on the injured (or at least offering up some sort of validation for the attacks, e.g. Danger of low flying helicopters, too many flights just above the heigh of the houses, etc. etc.

    What has changed: The Army – NO, the PSNI – NO, Ambulance – NO. It is SF’s position that has changed on policing. Amazing just how much like they sound like the SDLP. Any wonder they want rid of the SDLP. THere is only room for one nationalist party and SF know tht if the only way they can get the votes is to become the SDLP

  • Observer

    “THere is only room for one nationalist party and SF know tht if the only way they can get the votes is to become the SDLP”

    Mmmm…the voting patterns suggest you have that arsewise.

  • vor

    ”Slugger bloggers,“

    “vor,

    I wasn’t talking to you….”

    This sounds like a poor take on a Monty Python sketch! Tell me soupy, who do you think DOES “give a feck”?

    Henry, I only post under the same pseudonym on any one thread. In order to allow myself the freedom to speak openly, honestly AND without ad hominem style jeering being thrown my way, I prefer to use different names; my thinking being that in doing this anyone wishing to comment on what I have written will have to do so based on just that “what I have written” and not preconceived perceptions. I see little benefit in developing a personal Slugger identity. I have no axe to grind. No party to defend or prop up…, just a few comments, that’s all.

    I do think there are two very serious but very different issues raised as a result of the crash.

    One is the danger to the civilian population whose lives are at risk living under the threat that such “accidents” might happen again.

    The second concerns the professionalism of our elected representative to put party interest before sound judgment. All that rubbish about “snowballs” certainly questions what he could see and what was going on. Conor Murphy has been around long enough to know that some people have daffodils in their garden and some people have petrol bombs. Neither appear by chance and it was disingenuous of him to suggest that he couldn’t see how the PB, rocks and stones being thrown wasn’t part of an orchestrated attack.

  • SuperSoupy

    vor,

    You aren’t a blogger, well not one Sluggers (you be elsewhere).

    You do know what a blogger is?

  • Pete Baker

    Mick & Susan

    The points about safety and the helicopter flights were raised in the comments on the earlier thread – and, it’s worth noting, the quotes referred to are linked in that post.

    No doubt there’ll be an opportunity to argue about all that when the crash investigation is completed – rather than hypothesising now – but nothing prevented a discussion of that topic at that point.

    The focus at the minute is the attacks [previously on the ambulance crew by ‘kids with snowballs’] now on the police by ‘sinister elements’.

  • Henry94

    vor

    Henry, I only post under the same pseudonym on any one thread. In order to allow myself the freedom to speak openly, honestly AND without ad hominem style jeering being thrown my way, I prefer to use different names; my thinking being that in doing this anyone wishing to comment on what I have written will have to do so based on just that “what I have written” and not preconceived perceptions.

    If the site allows it and you choose to take that option that’s up to you but I have seen enough to form my own view of what’s going on with that kind of posting.

    It was bad enough that we had more dissidents posting here than they got votes in the election (and now they are all gone) but the level of abuse coming from the “fly-posters” if I may choose a term means that you will be inevitably identified with it. You may or may not deserve to be. We can’t know and we can’t really take it seriously.

  • heck

    one less helicopter for Honest Tony to sent to Iraq

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Pat, how long has Curly Top been supporting the police and criminal justice system? Think The Coleen McCullough case will tell us much?’

    Dear oh dear, even the standard of trolling is diminishing at a fair old rate. Paul(sic) a bit of advice, if you are going to dig up some poor victim to bandy about the site as a term of abuse then at least have the common decency to get their name right. As stated Colleen Mc Cullogh is the author of the Thorn Birds (Freudian slip on your reading habits there).
    I think that in your own retarded way you were trying to drag up the case of Colleen Mc Murray. Can you please clarify as I would at least like to know what you are trying to say.

  • Ian

    Pat, I think he’s talking about Wayne Rooney’s girlfriend.

  • vor

    SuperSoupy,

    ”You do know what a blogger is?“

    I thought a “blogger” was some one who posts on a blog, but clearly not? Having resisted the temptation to develop an identifiable personality here on Slugger, I have avoided possible future a.h. jeers!

    henry,

    I am 100% with PB on this one. At the moment, I believe the thread is best served by debating the calibre and professionalism of our man in Westminister which was called in to question when he started talking about “snowballs”. After an investigation of the crash has been published, I am sure (as there should be), there will be a thread to debate that aspect of the crash in full.

    Until then, we are left with the situation where Conor Murphy MP appears to be making foolish PR driven statements that are designed solely to maximize selfishly, his party profile. I commend the positive influence he had on the situation earlier that evening and feel it is a pity that it didn’t have a longer lasting affect in to the night. I wonder if SF representatives like Conor Murphy MP are beginning to loose their credibility on the ground with their constituents. This will of course be seen in voting patterns at the ballot box but it will equally be seen at incidents like this where, in the past, the community has responded to calls by the public representatives, it hesitates and ignores them. In this case, it is a SF representative but the situation may well occur in any community.

  • SuperSoupy

    vor,

    The people who write the entries are bloggers – Mick, Pete, FD et al.

    You are a reader/commentator. (so getting all angst ridden about a comment not even directed at you was a bit OTT)

  • Nevin

    “Mr Murphy said parents and the community safety group also weighed in in what they believed was a successful bid to stop the youths.

    Another frenzied attack, however, resumed before midnight.

    “Our presumption was that things had settle down by 10pm,” said Mr Murphy. “I think a more sinister element returned later in the evening.””

    It seems that Murphy still favours sinister republican vigilantes/community safety groups (DOC file) over the PSNI when it comes to local policing. Sinn Fein’s commitment to democracy certainly comes dripping slow.

  • vor

    SuperSoupy,

    Though far from “angst ridden”, (merely taken by the pereived the tone), I take the point and hold my hand up to having got this AAF!

    As Bobby Hunniford points out, thnis “…blatant disregard for human life is deplorable” and it is right to look at what our public repreentatives are doing to help the situation. It is wrong for Conor Murphy to make crass comments about “snowballs” before getting all the facts, simply on the grounds that that was what he saw. If that is the level he is at, then we clearly need to demand more of our politicians.

  • Henry94

    vor

    I am 100% with PB on this one.

    You could 100% of PB for all we know. I certainly wouldn’t want fly-posters turning up to agree with me. It looks silly.

  • Paul Rea

    Pat, indeed an error. And as you say a Freudian slip correcetd immediately and posted, only then to be removed for some reason by the moderators. An error of course but not as great an error as thinking Scap is not a tout. No sign of you correcting that error yet? And of course you know exactly what is happening in the Colleen McMurray case just as you knew what happened on the night of the Enniskillen bomb but pretended not to. But of course Curly Top was being sent around to explain the need for republicans to support the PSNI. We are in for some interesting days ahead. How is the Hawk by the way? He not a tout either?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Paul,

    come on now, a bit miffed at making an ass of yourself.

  • vor

    “I wouldn’t want fly-posters turning up to agree with me”

    Is there an Internet snobbery now associated with Slugger that I wasn’t aware of? Surely it is a reflection on you and the confidence you have in what you write, as to the amount of credence you give to others supporting you?

    My support for PB was given “for the record”. Nothing more and nothing less. Clearly it’s a bigger issue for you as you saw fit to comment on it though I guess PB hasn’t given it much thought.

    Talk about “fly-posters” here is in the same ad hominem vein of introducing irrelevancies to an argument, in the hope they will carry the discussion in a certain way.

    “fly-posters” = ad hominem = irrelevancy

    “snowballs” = public representative =MP

    One IS important and one ISN’T. YOU DECIDE!!!!

  • Henry94

    I notice fly-poster are far more likely to use caps. I wonder why that is.

  • Paul Rea

    Pat, do I sound miffed? I don’t feel it. A blunder a day keeps the arrogance away. Doesn’t work in your case though. Anyway, you clearly know I made an ass of you in our previous discussion over your party colleague. And you know what is coming in the future.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Paul,

    the archives are available for all to trawl, should they wish to. I have no wish to re-hash an argument done to death some time ago. As you made clear at the time you were impressed by the likes of ingram and the various anti republican reporters who pimped their story. I thankfully, drink from a different pool.

    Your faux pas over the unfortunate Mc Murray merely indicates a tendency to play fast and loose with the facts. Conversation over.

  • Paul Rea

    Pat, we are not amused then? Oh dear, oh dear. If I were you I too would not wish to revisit the silly arguments you have presented here over the years. Freddie Scap was not a tout, indeed. Is the Hawk not one either? A faux pas on the word is not to play fast and loose with the facts but a silly person would be pushed to know the difference. Yes, please continue to drink your fill from the fool pool, the one that offers a heady brew with which to stupify the mind into thinking Freddie was the victim of a Brit plot. Your wisdom is so instructive and we are eternally grateful for that. Due to you we now know how to deal with Mr Adams when he next tells us that the Free State has an exchequer surplus of 40 billion. What was he out by? €38.43bn. You wish the story had died some time ago. I shall call you up here as soon as it does a Lazarus. I don’t think you will be up for it.

  • Roisin

    [i]I notice fly-poster are far more likely to use caps. I wonder why that is.[/i]

    Henry,

    I call it ‘drive-by posting’ myself.

  • mailcall

    Jools Holland you’ve got mail. noc.

  • Henry94

    Roisin

    Not bad but they are yet another symptom of the decline of Slugger into just an anti-Sinn Fein site. I’m not sure I see the value in posting here now. If it’s just about attacking one party then I’m inclined to leave them at it.

    If we are forced to defend SF from continual attack the we do begin to look as if that’s all we do which makes it easier for others to see us as just mouthpieces for the party. Maybe that’s the plan but I’m bored with it.

    What do you think?

  • Pete Baker

    Henry

    “Not bad but they are yet another symptom of the decline of Slugger into just an anti-Sinn Fein site. I’m not sure I see the value in posting here now. If it’s just about attacking one party then I’m inclined to leave them at it.”

    If you want to criticise the content of the original post here – as opposed to any other post – and a post which consists primarily of quotes from Conor Murhpy, then do so.

    Alternatively if your complaint is about the subsequent comments then, as you’re well aware, they are subject to the Commenting Policy.

  • Henry94

    Pete

    That is quite an extrodinary intervention. I am raising the issue of the agenda behind the post and the series of anti-Sinn Fein posts you are responsible for.

    Do you think you can insist that we refuse to notice what’s going on? That’s a joke.