Murders linked – possible dissident connection

The PSNI are now linking the murders of two men whose bodies were found in North and West Belfast on Monday morning. The victims have been named as Edward Burns from Ardoyne and Joe Jones from Poleglass. The murders may be linked to internal tensions within CIRA. Police describe local co-operation with the investigation as “excellent”.

  • Harris

    “The murders may be linked to internal tensions within CIRA.”

    I know it’s early on, but have the PSNI looked into other possible motives besides internal squabbling, or is just more convenient to do so under the current circumstances?

  • Harris

    “Detective Superintendent George Clarke said that a spade had been found at the scene of Mr Jones murder and was being forensically examined.”

    The only “spade” I’m aware of is from a deck of cards. Was it a King of Spades, an Ace of Spades? Can someone explain otherwise?

  • Yoda

    A shovel (if you’re not being funny).

  • Harris

    Thanks, Yoda.

    I wasn’t being funny. I had no idea they called a shovel a spade in NI.

  • Ondine

    Harris, where are you from where they don’t call a spade a spade? 🙂

  • picador

    FFS. A man was brutally beaten to death. Have at least some modicum of decorum.

    There were two shootings in Ardoyne last week. Could these incidents also be connected?

    I hope those responsible are put behind bars quickly.

  • Irish Republican in America

    A spade is a smaller shovel, here in the States.

    Got to attend a “relatives for Justive” event in DC today. Great event and good to hear from Raymond McCord.

  • Harris

    “Raymond McCord”

    He’s got to be a nationalist in loyalist clothing!

  • Irish Republican in America

    No, he’s a Father who’s son was brutally murdered by the very state he loved and supported.

  • Harris


    I’m aware of who he is and what happened to his son. I posted the above due to new-found republican fondness for the guy.

  • Rubicon

    Classifying Raymond McCord seems inappropriate. Well said Irish Republican in America.

    Raymond may have failed to get elected on Wednesday but 1,745 people voted for him. His transfers went – 42% SDLP, 28% UUP (Fred Cobain) and 30% DUP. Hardly the profile of a sectarian vote.

  • Plum Duff

    This turn of events in Ardoyne is cause for concern. As Picador above has mentioned, apart from the recent savage murder, there were also two shootings in the area last week. No one has yet linked these to anything. There have also been sectarian incursions into nearby Twadell Avenue, rightly condemned by Gerry Kelly. I hope it doesn’t start any other balls rolling. I remember several years ago when a paramilitary bunch of low-lifes called IPLO were told to ‘retire’, they shot up a loyalist bar in Roden Street to flag up their ‘republican’ credentials, killing and wounding several innocent people in the process. All of which, as events proved, led to other needless deaths on the nationalist side.

    We’re still not out of the woods yet, apparently and unfortunately.

  • Rubicon

    Harris – have you asked yourself why republicans may be fond of this bereaved father and why you are not?

  • Harris


    “Harris – have you asked yourself why republicans may be fond of this bereaved father and why you are not?”

    I’m aware of the empathy that republicans feel towards Mr. McCord, and rightly so.

    As far as I’m concerned, I feel for the guy as well. If it wasn’t for him there may never have been an inquiry into loyalist collusion.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Harris, I’m starting to get really bored of the heavy sectarian undertones that seem to underline every single point you make here. Perhaps you should take a step back and think about these things first.

  • SuperSoupy


    Your breakdown of McCord’s transfers may make some think SF leaning voters did not lend him a vote but I would point out at his elimination both SF candidates had already been elected. Some of the SDLP votes may well have been 4th preferences with SF candidates ahead but we’ll never know for sure.

  • Rubicon

    SS – as you say – we’ll never know for sure. 30% of McCord’s vote didn’t transfer which indicates a large number either preferred elected or already eliminated candidates. 3 candidates were elected at the time of McCord’s elimination – 2 from SF and 1 from the DUP (Dodds). It is likely a large proportion of the non-transferable votes were destined for SF.

  • P O’Neil

    Isn’t it a little premature for PSNI to be pointing fingers at CIRA, or any group, unless the forensic samples were fast-tracked some results will not be completed for another 4-6 weeks.

    Republican and Nationalist empathy for Raymond McCord is understandable, not just because of the loss of his son, but because he was murdered by the state. If Bloody Sunday and Pat Finucane are anything to go by, then unfortunately, Mr McCord has a very long road a head of him because he’s going up against a state that just doesn’t care. I’m sure that due to effective media and polital spin the O’Loan Report has already fallen into the memory hole of the British population.

    PS it wasn’t just a spade, it was a bloody spade.

  • Frustrated Democrat

    On a pedantic note a spade is not a shovel, a spade is used for digging and a shovel is used for shovelling.

  • Henry94

    P O’Neill

    It’s not forensics that would link the murders to a group but intelligence. For mainstream republicans this creates a dilemma. While appalled by the murders we remain cognisant of the fact that spin and falsehood can never be ruled out when accusations are being tossed around by the police.

    I suggest that the way forward is for anybody who has any information about the murders to give it to the PSNI while we all keep an open mind on what might ultimately turn out to be the truth of the case.

    It is in all our interests that the murderers be caught.

  • Briso

    Posted by P O’Neil on Mar 14, 2007 @ 07:22 AM
    >Isn’t it a little premature for PSNI to be
    >pointing fingers at CIRA, or any group, unless
    >the forensic samples were fast-tracked some
    >results will not be completed for another 4-6

    Not at all. The sequence of events is as follows. A crime is committed. The police tell us who did it. Politicians use this information to their best advantage. The police investigate the crime. If the police charge someone, subsequently either they drop the charges or the PPS rules out a prosecution. The perpetrators are never convicted. We all carry on either believing or disbelieving the police version of events depending on what suits us. Sometimes one of those charged is murdered.

  • Lagmore

    Word on the ground is that the killings are connected to a certain “family feud”.

  • Sean


    My god I have never heard a more trenchant explanation of how things work in Northern Ireland

    Perfect example? The Norther Bank heist