Ulster Poles to be PSNI piggy in the middle…

Thanks to Frank for the heads up to this piece on Indymedia, written by a Polish blogger, Krystian ‘Mackozer’ Kozerawski

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  • kensei

    I’m not so sure it will have quite the negative impact suggested. The Polish community has the advantage of sharing the same religion as Nationalism, which puts them in contact with Nationalists in a way that Unionists never really were.

    I reckon that the SF Ard Dheis with have taken the sting out of it too, and any anger would likely be directed at the government or the police service itself.

    Some decent leadership on the issue on the Nationalist side would go a long way, though.

  • DK

    Anyone see the piece in the observer about how the UDA are trying to help poles and others in loyalist areas, to the extent of helping them get to catholic schools.

    How times are changin.

  • David

    I think the involvement of the Poles in Northern Ireland has been largely positive and it seems clear that they are likely to be a force for good in this situation.

  • mnob

    Its been a while since I read such a disturbing article.

    It is Lord Haw Haw saying – listen up lads :

    The prods dont like you, they never will cos they are sectarian bigots and you wouldnt want to be their friend anyway. We *want* to be your friends but if you join the police then we cant be. So do you want to be far away from home and have no friends ?

  • gerry

    The police aren’t loved much by any society, why would it be different here. If you are a nationalist/catholic and you are charged by a copper say for illegal parking and the copper is a nationalist/catholic does that make it ok. If the copper is a nationalist/catholic/polish will that make it great? The logic to this is, if he is polish its ok but if he is not, if he is N Irish then give him hell. I can’t see that working out on the ground. If a polish immigrant is arrested for illegal begging does that mean on n Irish nationalist catholic coppers should charge them in case they face harrassment or intimidation in their own communities.

    The question is do polish immigrants want to integrate with the whole community or only the catholic section of it. Either way, policing a community where you have only arrived is a recipe for bad relations whether that be here or anywhere else. For the PSNI to use them as pawns to get their quotas makes the situation worse.

    On the late late show recently, there was a discussion about parking attendants in Dublin being from Mozambique, and the comment was passed off as a joke, but the message behind it was, it did not improve integration or relations with the host society. If you want to be accepted don’t be a peeler no matter who you are.

  • mnob

    I’m not quite sure its the PSNI using the Poles as pawns. They didnt create the rules and have no power to alter them.

    Summary of gerrys message :

    Keep yer heads down lads, dont rock the boat and maybe someday you’ll be welcome.

  • gerry

    I didn’t say anybody wasn’t welcome, except ruc/psni/peelers. Relations involve diplomacy between all sides, thats a fact whether you like it or not. I am agreeing with the writer of the piece.

  • mnob

    gerry – u are precisely saying that poles are welcome unless they do something you dont agree with in which case the gloves are off.

    To dress it up in the ‘nobody likes the peelers’ argument is only kidding yourself. Its a purely political (in the narrow NI terms of the word) argument. In short you dont care about a transparent open police force – your only concern is that you get your quota.

  • PaddyReilly

    Have we read the same article? It is a blogpiece by a Pole called Kozerawski. He says that while it is appropriate for some Poles to join the PSNI to make it a representative institution, and it is certainly a profitable job opportunity, he wouldn’t like to see too many doing so for fear that the unpopularity of the police might be transferred to the Poles. It is not a Fenian threat, it is a Polish prevarication.

    Apparently in some parts of the USA the Irish are distrusted and even disliked because it is assumed they are all related to policemen.

  • USA

    It is certainly true here in the US, that even to this day, the Irish representation in the emergency services (Police dept, Fire dept etc) is disproportionately high. Although I never got a sense they were distrusted because of it. Having said that, I am Irish and a supporter of the police here in the US, so my social circle would not include many (if any) who generally viewed the police negatively.
    But on the issue of Polish police officers in the “wee six”, obviously it is to be broadly welcomed. I would however have strong reservations about “1000” Polish police officers as that is way out of balance with their representation in the population. I suggest that no-one intends to hire “1000” Polish police officers, as this would have a negative effect on the PSNI’s ability to engage in proper community policing.
    Someone has got their facts wrong surely?

  • Mario el argentino

    When traveling through Europe, with the exception of England and France, I did not see Police officers that were not white. This was specially strange in parts of Rumania where there were huge pockets of Roma and yet no Roma police officers.

    My question thus is, are Pakistanis, Chinese or other, non white immigrants, welcomed to join the PSNI? Or is it just the white European immigrants? I am not trying to start anything. I am merely asking.

    For all the problems that the United States has, I saw large numbers of non white police officers and other goverment employees who were not white, but I cant say I saw the same in Europe, though the immigrant population has grown.

  • Mario el argentino

    On the above question, I am of course, referring to those immigrants with full citizenship in those countries. Why is it that only England and France have police officers of other ethnicities?

  • gerry

    mnob perhaps you need to read the article again?

    Mario, Orde did come out at one stage and say that ethnic policemen are welcome. I took it he meant non white, but perhaps he was refering to European people. Who knows, clarity was never really very good in public matters here. I expect no one will know until applications are made, or if they have been made and rejected why that is happening. With quite a high number of Chineese people here, and now with their own political representation going, I would have thought there’d have been some Chineese peelers by now.

    Either way, would it make the PSNI more acceptable in certain areas, I don’t think so.

  • Dk

    I vaguely remember from an old article that there were cops in the PSNI from africa and Iran. Dion’t know what ethnicity they were though.

  • mnob

    “This ‘job opportunity’ can put all Polish people of Northern Ireland as a piggy in the middle – between two sides of the conflict – and face discrimination from both of them.’

    According to the police almost all the troublemakers were linked with Loyalists.

    Fortunately, so far, the Catholic community, or – so called – nationalist community in the North hasn’t shown any serious dislike for the Poles. There have not been any attacks reported or any serious troubles.

    For many nationalists the PSNI is just a continuance of Royal Ulster Constabulary, or at least it is still a British colonial force.

    Employing Poles due to the lack of Irish Catholic officers in the police service could actually do harm to the Polish population. We are a foreign element, not linked to the problems, memories and sensitivities of the local Catholic communities. In my opinion, Polish PSNI officers cannot be a good representatives of Irish Catholics in the North and they probably will not be a regarded as one of ‘our people’ by them.”

    I read the article gerry – did you ?