Forget the Queen, what about the Soldier’s Song?

Fergus Finlay argues that the topic for discussion should not be the playing of the Queen at Croke Park but whether the Soldier’s Song should. He concludes:

The Soldiers’ Song says nothing to us any more. It’s time we retired it with honour.

  • Steaky

    Pretty stupid idea, most National Anthems are based on historic events.
    Does this mean that the French should abandon “La Marseillaise” for something by Serge Gainsbourg , MC Solar, or maybe a little Air number.

  • frank

    Know it’s nothing to do with this thread, but Indymedia has an interesting story on Polish PSNI by a Polish blogger, in which he suggests his community may become subject to further sectarian hate due to recent policing developments.

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/81111

    On the subject of this thread, has anyone noticed some of the riot organising going on on Bebo?

  • manichaeism

    He thinks we should pick a song that everyone on the island could join in with!

    I’m willing to bet that no matter what we picked it would be hated by some elements of unionism in a very short time. They certainly wouldn’t be joining us in singing it.

  • baldrick45

    Something about National Anthems. We all know they are badly dated, generally use language celebrating fighting, military conquest, the glory of bathing in the blood of our enemies or dieing for our homeland. Sentiments which 99% of our countries would dismiss as complete BS.

    And yet we cling to them just the same for the visceral sense of “belonging” they stir up deep in our guts. Nothing intelligent about it but the reaction kicks in every time.

    For this reason I can’t see Ireland giving up the Soldier Song anytime soon likewise “ussuns” dropping “God Save the Queen”.

    Though personally I like the suggestion from Billy Connolly that someone comes up with some lyrics to go with the theme from “The Archers” or alternatively the UK adopts Cliff Richard singing “Living Doll”.

    At least then everyone would know the words and we would have a catchy little tune to play on the rare occasion our sportsmen and women win anything…

  • Tochais Síoraí

    We’re going to have to change it in a few years anyway when the united Ireland thing happens so what’s the point in doing it now?

  • when you look at some of the later verses of the same song, still part of the national anthem though seldom sung nowadays, there’s even less reason to object to it on bloodthirsty grounds.

    I’m not sure why Finlay bothers with this argument given that its very well known that the later verses of God Save the Queen include this one:

    Lord grant that Marshal Wade
    May by thy mighty aid
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush,
    And like a torrent rush,
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the Queen!

    How’s that for inclusivity.

  • Steaky

    Alternatively “Il Canto degli Italiani” written in 1847 about the struggle for unification and independence of Italy could be changed to Joe Dolce’s “Shaddap You Face”.

    Or Dennmark’s King Kristian sould be changed to Whigfields saturaday night.

    Or Greece’s Hymn to freedom could be replaced by that dude(looks like a lady) from Eurovision

    Any other suggestions?

  • IJP

    Tom

    That verse has long been abandoned.

    Which kind of makes Fergus Finlay’s point!

  • smcgiff

    Well, I’d kinda like an Anthem in my own language and that of the vast majority of my fellow countrymen. Two guesses as to what language that is.

    I’m no fan of GSTQ either, as it isn’t even a NATIONAL anthem, more a eulogy to a Monarch.

  • The Dubliner

    How about an anthem for the British irredentists among us?

    Oh, United Kingdom, take us back,
    No glorious queen here, alas, alack.
    Stretch us long upon your rack:
    And with your batons, our heads do whack.

    (Okay, it isn’t Heaney – and proffered with profound apologies for spilt infinitives and botched meter)

  • Phil McAvity

    The use of “God Save The Queen” for the England Rugby team is as misleading as the use of “The Soldiers Song” for the Ireland team. Neither are the anthems of the nations that these teams represent as they are the anthems of the UK and RoI respectively. It is up to the Irish to agree an anthem for themselves and they are half way there with “Ireland’s Call”. As for England there is continued pressure for the relevant sporting bodies to stop using the UK anthem and adopt an English national anthem. The favorite in most polls has been “Jerusalem” which at the moment is only used by the England cricket team, ironic I know considering the Irish and Welshmen in that team!

  • Of course Fergus Findlay, in his rush to the Revisionist Flag, gets it wrong. The National Anthem is Amhran na bhFiann – the Soldiers Song is a version in the English language, the second official language.

    It should be sung until we all agree a new song. And if that occurs, Ireland’s Call should also be retired. It says nothing about Ireland today either.

    As for GSTQ. If the English are as ignorant as to want to sing this on Saturday, in Croke Park, I won’t object to them demonstrating to the world their lack of sensitivity and profound lack of civility. But that;s the way of the English isn’t it. Isn’t it time as Smcgiff says they got a proper national anthem rather than a eulogy to an outdated and irrelevant anachronism, no to mention sectarian, the monarchy, which should have no place in modern civilised life.

  • Steaky

    Leaving aside my suggestions for more hip up to date anthems, as no one seems to want to play.
    Hows about adapting the football model and starting on Saturday you could have
    “26th March, you are having a laugh,
    26th March you are having a laugh”

  • IJP

    None of the later verses of God Save the Queen are usually sung nowadays. The monarchy’s website mentions only verse one and verse three.
    So why is Finlay claiming verse four is relevant and ignoring verse six?

  • fair_deal

    “their lack of sensitivity and profound lack of civility”

    I must remember that “lack of sensistivity” argument the next time the Irish Language Act comes up 😉

    No its the arrogance of the Irish that the British national anthem must be kept from their sensitive ears alone.

    There are plenty of other countries in the world with poor past relationships with the UK and much worse that can cope with the British national anthem being played at sporting events.

    To all

    Why do some here lack the same maturity? Is the way this thread has veered off topic an example of it? It was proffered as one about the Irish national anthem yet by the third comment it became a reason to have a go at Unionists, derisive responses rather than engage in argument, ad hominen Irish unity stuff or a focus mainly on the UK anthem rather than the Irish one.

  • another_pleb

    How aboot this?

    Britain’s a marvelous place
    Abstemious and chaste
    And peace loving,
    It’s tolerant and fair
    So say people everywhere
    You’ll have a fun time there
    And not regret a thing.

  • middle-class taig

    I would have no objection to Amhrán na bhFiann being replaced as the Irish national anthem, in recognition of the fact that it is not representative of all Irishmen. In recognition of the not inconsiderable gesture that would be involved in such a change, it would be refreshing to see at least some sections of northern unionism participating in the process of identifying a new anthem, by way of acknowledgment that while they may want little to do with the Irish state, they do play at least some part in the Irish nation.

  • BonarLaw

    MCT

    exactly. What anthem the Irish state wishes to use as its’ National Anthem is of no concern to me, or I suspect a vast number of unionists. What I do object to is its’ use at an all island event, especially given the IRFUs’ attitude to GSTQ at Ravenhil.

    Incidently I don’t care what Eurovision tune the Irish state runs with either.

    Honestly, very little of what happens in the neighbouring state interests me. Perhaps this is what the “Process” has brought about- an end to the North/ South Cold War, replacing simmering unionist suspicion with overwhelming unionist disinterest.

    Soldiers Song? Whatever.

  • Mick Fealty

    There’s a good face off in the Irish Times yesterday that I’ve been planning to blog, but just haven’t had the time… will try to get out this pm…

  • Kloot

    Simple answer would be to suspend the playing of The Soldiers Song pending the outcome on an IRFU initiative to try achieve a consensus on this matter

    My view as a rugby supporter from the ROI is that the symbols of the ROI should be taken out of the equation and an agreed anthem/flag should be utilized. Surely the flag of the four provinces would be a suitable alternative, and im sure it couldnt be too hard to come up with a tune. yes, we have Irelands call, but thats just too rubbish and is not emotive enough.

    The agreed flag/anthem then should be used at all games regardless of location.

    Presidential and head of state salutes are a different thing and Id hope tolerance would reach as far as to allow these to take place where appropriate

  • George

    It’s a bit like “replacing” Nelson’s Column with the Millenium Spire in Dublin.

    I assume Fergus will now be all for replacing those old Imperial street names in Ireland like Grafton Street, Earl Street, King Street, Queen Street, Essex Street, Nassau Street etc. for some new ones that reflect the modern, open country we have become.

    After all, by his standards, they too have “nothing to say to us any more”.

  • Alan

    How’s about a variation of Woody Guthrie’s “This Land is my Land”.

    “This land is my land, this land is your land.
    From Dingle’s waters to Antrim highlands,
    From Taras halls to Derry’s walls,
    This land was made by you and me”

    Stands back to watch the bricks.

  • Niall

    Who’s going to write a new national anthem? Westlife?

    I’d rather stick with the militaristic hyperbole of the past than imagine what horror of a song would be dredged up by the official culturatti of modern Ireland. Would it be done on a television text-in show? Maybe Fergus has penned a few bars already, just in case.

    What would a new anthem celebrate? Traffic chaos, individualism, how ‘inclusive’, wealthy and wonderful we all are? I’d imagine it would not only be a political hot potato, but an insult to music as well.

    Bonar Law hit the nail on the head when he said most unionists don’t care about the anthem of the Irish State. Trying to be ‘inclusive’, ie pandering to what we think unionists might find acceptable about our history and our identity, is wrong to begin with, but also pointless when they make it perfectly clear they don’t want to be included.

    If Fergus Finlay didn’t know the words of the anthem at Croker, it says more about Fergus Finlay than about Ireland. Nationhood is something we should aspire to, not something that automatically changes to suit the fad du jour, although without the fad du jour newspaper columnists would have to be original in what they write about. There’s a fine line between wanting things to be relevant and being plain lazy.

    Anyway, most Irish rugby supporters are West Brits who would rather sing God Save the Queen anyway, (JOKE ALERT)

  • Owen Lee Joe King

    Alan, that would be from “Taras halls to LondonDerrys wall” for some, I fancy. Somehow loses the poetic metre.

  • BB

    Or :

    ” From the lakes of Kerry to the streets of Free Derry”

    (Ducks and runs for cover)

  • Phil McAvity

    Olibhear,

    “Isn’t it time as Smcgiff says they got a proper national anthem rather than a eulogy to an outdated and irrelevant anachronism, no to mention sectarian, the monarchy, which should have no place in modern civilised life.”

    In a word, yes! My preference is “Jerusalem” but I think that this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5h4PFBuzvw is a good new song reflecting modern England.

  • Rory

    Given that it’s only a rugby match and being sensitive to the musical and cultural tastes of its players and supporters wouldn’t it be more appropriate simply to play, for both sides, “The Ball of Inverness” or some similarly juvenile scatalogical ditty?

  • Dk

    THere is an online petition to replace GSTQ with “Gold” by Spandau Ballet. I think Ireland needs to be quick to get it first.

  • Dec

    Is ‘Through the barricades’ already taken?

  • So it no longer means anything to Fungus Finlay – did it ever?

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Oliver,

    “Of course Fergus Findlay, in his rush to the Revisionist Flag, gets it wrong. The National Anthem is Amhran na bhFiann – the Soldiers Song is a version in the English language, the second official language.”

    Except that he isn’t wrong. In any of the early Dail debates it was always TSS that was referred to. Anyhow, Amhran na bhFiann is just a translation of the original SS written years before.

    Hi Dk,

    Whatabout Green, white and “Gold”?

    Or more seriously, “Weela weela wallia”. Easy to learn and join in…

  • Now here’s something should bring us all together… Looking at the dominant colour of the DUP website, and the displays at Ulster rugby matches, what’s adrift with Jim O’Connell’s piece from the 1890s? It’s a well-known wee number, which starts:
    “The people’s flag is deepest red…”

    By the way, can it be noted that the Soldier’s Song (originally in English, and then translated) is by Peadar Kearney, Brendan and Dominic Behan’s uncle. And, yes, there is a small local connection: Kearney was interned at Ballykinler, County Down, during the “War of Independence”.

  • Diluted Orange

    middle class ..

    [i]I would have no objection to Amhrán na bhFiann being replaced as the Irish national anthem, in recognition of the fact that it is not representative of all Irishmen. In recognition of the not inconsiderable gesture that would be involved in such a change, it would be refreshing to see at least some sections of northern unionism participating in the process of identifying a new anthem, by way of acknowledgment that while they may want little to do with the Irish state, they do play at least some part in the Irish nation.[/i]

    These are pretty much my sentiments about the whole thing. I have been hoping that this change would come about for a long time so I don’t have to feel somewhat inferior when supporting the Irish team because I don’t want to be part of the Republic.

  • No Dozer

    It’s time the I.R.F.U. caught themselves on. Lose the republican trappings and stop insulting your fellow islanders who happen to be rugby fans and who are not republican and never will be.

  • Yoda

    Can someone please explain to me how the IRFU playing AnB causes such outrage on the grounds that it is “not representative” while at the same time NI continues to have an anthem that does not represent 40%+ of the population?

    I’m genuinely confused.

  • Realist

    Yoda,

    Like it or not, GSTQ is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    I fully accept that it is not the National Anthem of a sizeable minority of people from Northern Ireland.

    The IRFU team represents players/supporters from TWO jurisdictions.

    Therefore, the IRFU anthem policy should be either:

    1/ AnB for games in the Irish Republic, and GSTQ for games held in Northern Ireland.

    2/ Both AnB and GSTQ played for all games in Ireland

    or,

    3/ ONLY “Ireland’s Call” played for ALL Ireland games.

    As things stand, the anthem policy of the IRFU is certainly out of kilter with the notion of building an Ireland of equals.

  • Kloot

    Realist..All very good points.. Lets not let this thread get into the 400 odd posts that the croker one did. Why bother replay the arguments.

    I think for people to ignore the fact that there is an issue is a bad call and will eventually lead to genuine bad feeling amongst those Ireland supporters of the Unionist background and something which s a great unifier of the people on the island will be sadly lost.

    For those that say f*ck em, its Soldiers Song or nothing… so much for your inclusive UI.

  • Yoda

    Like it or not, GSTQ is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Saying “like it or not” doesn’t dispel the lack of consistency at work in most of these arguments.

    Nor does “like it or not” address the non-representation issue.

    “Like it or not” also attempts to sidestep the very idea of a shared NI.

    “Like it or not” actually covers up quite a bit.

    This perplexes me to no end.

    It’d be nice if some posters could use this issue to the larger context(s).

  • Yoda

    Oops: last line should read: It’d be nice if some posters could use this issue to rethink the larger context(s).

    I should also add that I don’t particularly care about using AnB. I’m more than willing to see it changed.

  • Realist

    Yoda,

    You seem to be making a case for “two wrongs make a right”?

    When you talk about the “non representation” issue surrounding the anthem in Northern Ireland, spare a thought for the practice of many Northern unionists who have gone to Dublin to watch the Ireland rugby team for many, many years – dignified tolerance.

  • Yoda

    You seem to be making a case for “two wrongs make a right”?

    Can you show me exactly where I do what you suggest?

  • Niall

    Realist

    “Like it or not, GSTQ is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”

    If the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were the team in question then that would be fine, but it is actually Ireland that we are talking about.

    To use your like it or not type of logic, similarly, LIKE IT OR NOT Amhran na bhFiann is played in Dublin for rugby internationals and the majority of rugby supporters on the island agree with that.

  • Kloot

    but it is actually Ireland that we are talking about.

    And what constitues this ‘Ireland’ that we are talking about.

    Is it the ROI and NI or is it simply a team made up of players from across the Island.

    In case 1 above, the argument of playing Amhran na bhFiann in Dublin and GSTQ in NI makes sense.

    In case 2, then an agreed anthem/flag makes sense. With no mention of national anthems.

    To use your like it or not type of logic, similarly, LIKE IT OR NOT Amhran na bhFiann is played in Dublin for rugby internationals and the majority of rugby supporters on the island agree with that.

    So Niall, I presume you are then in favour of NI becoming a seperate rugby entity. Because it wont be just the Unionist members of Ulster rugby that will pull support, the whole province will leave if enough empaty built up.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    I think “A Nation Once Again” would be a fantastic anthem – notwithstanding the fact that the Wolfe Fucking Tones have smeared their b1goted paws all over it, there isn’t a sectarian line in the song.

    It’s a powerful anthem dedicated to the ideal and the achievement of liberty. There’s nothing about enemies, just a line about renting chains in twain – and who is pro-chain these days anyway?

    The theme of “a nation once again” is also a powerful image for a nation riven with division for so long.

    And of course it’s got one of the all-time great choruses. (Imagine 82k at Croker bellowing it out…)

    Oh, and it was written by a great Irish Protestant.

  • Realist

    “If the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were the team in question then that would be fine, but it is actually Ireland that we are talking about”

    Yes, Niall…and “Ireland”, as represented by the IRFU, consists of players/supporters from two jurisdictions on the island ie. Northern Ireland (part of the United Kingdom) and the Republic Of Ireland.

    The IRFU have gotten themselves into such a pickle over their anthem policy that they now deem Belfast to be an “away” fixture, in order to avoid true equality.

  • Gerenian Nestor

    Surely it was the Ulster branch who pressurised the IRFU into abandoning Amhran na bhFiann abroad and using just Ireland’s Call? Since unionists are clear that Northern Ireland is a different country to the Republic, and therefore abroad, then Ireland’s Call it will be at Ravenhill against Italy.

  • I’m no expert, what what about Dana’s “All kinds of everything” as an anthem? It’s suitably peace loving, lyrics-wise. I could wheel out the obligatory Smith’s songs if you want? “There’s one for everyone in the audiance” to borrow a term from Gaybo.

  • Patrique

    Great idea, I have been arguing this for years, not for political reasons, but musical ones. The anthem is dire, and we have hundreds of beautiful slow airs to put in its place, the sooner the better.

  • big rab

    Perhaps rugby supporters from n.i should shout ‘no surrender’ during AMB, to put their own mark on it.

    It seems to be very popular during the football internationals , and the IFA are quite content with the Loyalist chant.

  • Bill

    Lets sing a song of love by Brian Kennedy

  • USA

    A shared anthem is required. No GSTQ at Ravenhill and no Amhran na bhFiann in Dublin. Four provinces flag to be flow instead of Tri Colour.
    What’s so hard about this stuff guys? Get it done and move on.

  • Plum Duff

    ‘Like it or not, GSTQ is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.’

    Fair comment, Realist, but in this game *ENGLAND* is playing. How come the Scots and Welsh can have their own national songs but England claims the ‘inclusive’ anthem for itself?

  • Realist

    “How come the Scots and Welsh can have their own national songs but England claims the ‘inclusive’ anthem for itself?”

    I don’t know Plum Duff.

    Was there not some talk that England might move to adopt “Jerusalem” as their “sporting” anthem?

  • Bob

    “How come the Scots and Welsh can have their own national songs but England claims the ‘inclusive’ anthem for itself?”

    I doubt anyone in England is stopping the Scots or Welsh from using GSTQ – its their own choice (quite rightly) not to use it.

    “Was there not some talk that England might move to adopt “Jerusalem” as their “sporting” anthem?”

    Don’t know about the rugby but the English FA have certainly considered replacing GSTQ – from what I have read the issue doesn’t appear to be GSTQ’s popularity but agreeing on an alternative.

    England and the UK are different things as far as I’m concerned. The Union Flag is hardly seen nowadays at England matches, time for a separate anthem too.

  • Niall

    Kloot,

    You rightly point out that NI is part of the United Kingdom. I stress that it is ‘part’ of the United Kingdom, it is not the United Kingdom so why play the UK anthem. After all, Scotland and Wales take the occasion to celebtate their own distinct regional identity, as opposed to the political one. This, I believe, is in the spirit of friendly rivalry that sport encourages and the Six Nations is about. England, as the seat of empire, sees itself differently, hence GTSQ, but even they prefer the St George flag to the Union Jack.

    By your logic Ireland’s Call should be changed to Ireland and Britain’s Call, as an Irish identity is evidently not sufficient. Ridiculous, yes, but no more ridiculous than an Irish team singing an anthem that is the State anthem of most of the teams we play against in the Six Nations, just so unionists can rub the majority of Irish rugby supporters face in it.

    A similar example might be when Munster play. It is a given that they are an Irish team, but on those sporting occasions it is Munster they represent, and correspondingly fly the flags, wear the colours and sing the songs (Fields of Athenry being an anamoly) of Munster, not Ireland, though nobody is calling into question their Irishness as a result.

    As for the IRFU representing two jurisdinctions, I’m not sure it does. As there is no separate ROI Rugby Union and NI Rugby Union, then the IRFU is not an umbrella body for two jurisdictions but an all-island body. If anything it represents the four provincial bodies, of which the Ulster body represents three counties outside of Northern Ireland.

    There is, to my mind, no obligation for any political anthem to be played at any international game. The precedent of Ireland’s Call being used for away fixtures proves this.

    Nobody really has a right for any political statement, by way of anthems, flags or otherwise, to be associated with any sporting fixture. It is something that has developed more out of tradition than anything in all international sports.

    The difference is that Amhran na bhFiann in the jurisdiction of the Republic is not contentious, God Save the Queen in the North is – not just to travelling southern fans, but to 40pc of the population of that region.

    A bigger question that transcends rugby is when will the North get an agreed State anthem, something which it will surely have to do in the near future. When that happens, this argument will be over.

  • DK

    “A bigger question that transcends rugby is when will the North get an agreed State anthem, something which it will surely have to do in the near future. When that happens, this argument will be over.”

    Nature loves an optimist – whatever is chosen will be rejected by one section or even both. It will be a bigger sticking point than Sinn Fein resognising the PSNI and there will be rioting in the streets. And someone will translate it into Gaelic.

  • páid

    Niall,

    a lot of your arguments are correct. But….

    The prods are telling us they don’t FEEL happy about the anthems situation. And to be honest I don’t FEEL happy forcing anthems on them.

    And technical arguments won’t change that, as anthems are about feelings.

    I suspect the prods are going to have to grin and bear it in Croker(BTW they might tell the IFA exactly how they feel)but in the new Lansdowne we should have an anthem everyone can sing.

    If the prods agreed a new anthem and presented it, Danny Boy or whatever, it might get the ball rolling.

    And folk who criticize Ireland’s Call should sit down with a piano and a bagpipes and let us know how they’re getting on with an alternative.

  • BonarLaw

    USA is absolutely right.

    The Ireland rugby team isn’t a national team so why play a national anthem?

  • Kloot

    The prods are telling us they don’t FEEL happy about the anthems situation. And to be honest I don’t FEEL happy forcing anthems on them.

    Spot on Paid….

    now.. any chance of borrowing your bagpipes for the weekend….

  • BonarLaw, when our American poster get GWBush to change his anthem to exclude bombs then I place greater emphasis on his postings…
    Oh, say can you see,
    By the dawn’s early light,
    What so proudly we hailed
    At the twilight’s last gleaming,
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars,
    Thru the perilous fight,
    O’er the ramparts we watched
    Were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rockets red glare,
    The bombs bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night
    That our flag was still there.
    O, say, does that
    Star-Spangled Banner yet wave
    O’er the land of the free
    And the home of the brave?

    It was the valiant defense of Fort McHenry by American forces during the British attack on September 13, 1814 that inspired 35-year old, poet-lawyer Francis Scott Key to write the poem which was to become the USA national anthem, “The Star-Spangled Banner.”

    The anthem comes from the following which speaks of British compound as “the foe’s haughty host” and then mention’s dead Brits “… blood has wiped out their foul footstep’s pollution.”

    Oh, say can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
    What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
    O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
    O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
    Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
    In full glory reflected now shines on the stream:
    ‘Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
    That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
    A home and a country should leave us no more?
    Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep’s pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
    Between their loved homes and the war’s desolation!
    Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
    Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    Not exactly like for like in comparison to the Soldier Song’s mention of “the Saxon foe” but the American’s seem more belligerent, no? and as for the Republican French !? Also remember how the American’s feel so strongly about their anthem… Sinatra and Skinhead O’Conner ?

    Personally, I’d sit down for GSTQ in Croker. In Twickers I couldn’t sit down as I was in the stnads but I completely ignored it.

  • barracks boy

    The IRFU should be allowed to adopt whatever anthem they feel their suporters are least uncomfortable with. Given that this is unlikely to be Ireland’s national anthem would they then kindly desist from calling themselves “Ireland” and stop begging the GAA and the Irish Exchequer for facilities and sunsidies? They offer bugger all to me and, quite frankly, I don’t like the idea of being forced to pay their wages. Bunch of west brit sell outs at the best of times.

  • BonarLaw

    “anonymous”

    I am very fond of the US national anthem and don’t find it in any way offensive. In fact its’ historical grounding is what makes it so powerful.

    However, not being an American citizen it cannot represent me nor should it.

    I don’t care what national anthem the Irish Republic has.

    However, not being an Irish citizen it cannot represent me nor should it. I would suggest that where Irish and British citizens come together as one team it cannot represent that team.

    “Personally, I’d sit down for GSTQ in Croker. In Twickers I couldn’t sit down as I was in the stnads but I completely ignored it.”

    Sad man.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    I can never read the words to the US national anthem without laughing my head off as I remember Kurt Vonnegut’s description of it in “Breakfast of Champions”.

    (I’ve even dug it out, for the enjoyment of my fellow Sluggerettes.)

    “Listen:

    Trout and Hoover were citizens of the United States of America, a country which was called America for short. This was their national anthem, which was pure balderdash, like so much they were expected to take seriously:

    “Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
    What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro’ the perilous fight’
    O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming.
    And the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
    Oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?”

    There were one quadrillion nations in the Universe, but the nation Dwayne Hoover and Kilgore Trout belonged to was the only one with a national anthem which was gibberish sprinkled with question marks.”

  • páid

    Aye bb,

    “a bunch of west brit sellouts”

    who happen to have built the only sporting world-class irish team we have.

    And kept the prods on board.

    And almost singlehandedly kept the ancient gaelic provincial identities.

    Féadfaidh siad mise a dhiol amach am ar bith.

  • No Dozer

    I don’t particuly care what the R.O.I. have as their national anthem. It’s not my country and never will be so I DON’T CARE! But I do resent it being played as the anthem of an All Ireland rugby team as if it was only anthem of both players and fans.

    I may be Irish born but i’m Northern Irish and Unionist and very proud of that fact. As i have said before I along with many other rugby fans feel we cannot give our support to the Island of Ireland rugby team for that reason.

    Maybe that nice man Mark Durkin who is always harping on about an “Ireland Of Equals” would walk the walk instead of talking the talk and do something about it.

    Until that day I will support the land of my grandfather-England!

    Nuff said– have to go and make the tea.

  • barracks boy

    paid (off?)

    “..the only sporting world-class irish team…”
    LMFAO!! How far up your arse can you get?? World class in a game that most of the world has never heard of and can never boast more than 5 decent teams at any one time. Well done big fella. And the “irish” bit is questionable as well, don’t they come from all over the colonies these days?

    “almost singlehandedly kept the ancient gaelic provincial identities” Yeah right. I suppose the “almost” had to be slipped in there to acknowledge a more successfull organisation that happened to do the same thing, only better.

    The IRFU are a bunch of scroungers who know no shame and never even blushed at begging the GAA for a leg up or trousering my tax for their private ground. Who will own Lansdown Rd when it’s finished? Not the people who paid for it, that’s for sure.
    But good luck with the anthem anyway, nice to see how the progressive liberals amongst us are getting on.
    KMA

  • Posted by BonarLaw on Feb 21, 2007 @ 03:36 PM wrote “…Sad man. ”

    but why?

    Many have written about people getting their knickers in a twist about a song. I just ignored GSTQ in Twickers and I’d sit if I was in Croker. That’s not too ‘in your face’ in comparison with some of what’s been written on this site.

    I like most English people I meet. I have very, very little respect for the British Govts for decades especially wrt their murderous behaviour in Irel. Therefore I ignore their official song… no biggie. I don’t like the Butcher’s Apron either.

    BTW I love the Marseillaise… the music and emotion… the best.

    How would the International be for you…?

    I’d leave out GSTQ, AnbF & Ireland’s Croak from the game completely and do “Eye of the Tiger” like for the boxing… that’ll get the aggression going..!!

  • BonarLaw

    “Butcher’s Apron ”

    Sad man.

  • Jim

    I reckon we should give Linton Kwesi Johnson‘s ‘Inglan is a Bitch’ a go this side of the water.

  • Southern Observer

    I just ignored GSTQ in Twickers and I’d sit if I was in Croker.
    It’s time we moved on from this sort of thing.I’ll be standing for GTSQ on Saturday and will remonstrate with anyone nearby who opens his mouth to boo it.

  • Sue

    “Oh! Canada My home and native land” as they sing for humorous affect on “South Park”

  • Eamon

    World class in a game that most of the world has never heard of…..

    Hurling – most counties have never heard of it and can never boast more than 3 decent teams at any one time

    There are 95 countries affiliated to the IRFU as full members and eight associate member countries.
    How many countries affiliated to the GAA?

    The IRFU are a bunch of scroungers who know no shame and never even blushed at begging the GAA …

    It was the GAA that was silently hoping that the stadium would be opened up to the IRFU & FAI as the Euro signs flashed before their eyes.

    The amount of money the IRFU & FAI bring into this economy, estimated at 30 million a game.

    trousering my tax for their private ground….

    Who Owns Croke Park?
    My Euro taxes helped build that ground.

    The GAA county Boards who objected mostly to opening up Croke Park to Rugby and Soccer didn’t contribute any sterling taxes to it.

  • Bill

    But I do resent it being played as the anthem of an All Ireland rugby team as if it was only anthem of both players and fans.

    Er Last time I looked Dublin was in the Republic of Ireland.

  • sue

    As pointed out elsewhere on slugger we are always told that Northern Ireland is in a separate country from the Republic and that when Ireland plays outside the Republic only Ireland’s Call is played so I look forward that, and only that, being played for the Ireland teAm at Ravenhill.