Successful Integration in a Loyalist community

Henry McDonald highlights the successful work in the Loyalist Old Warren estate to integrate the new residents from East European communities. Part of the work has included education around the Polish contribution to the Allies against the Axis powers in World War II.

  • loftholdingswood

    Outstanding work from those down at Lisburn Old Warren. Groundbreaking stuff. Congratulations to all those involved.

  • Dec

    While anything that stops loyalists attacking immigrants is to be welcomed, the hypocrisy of the likes of Colin Halliday is hilarious:

    So we pointed out that you couldn’t be loyal to Britain and a racist.

    Presumably, then, we won’t see any Irish tricolours being burnt at bonfires this year, then?

    Just a pity, someone didn’t point out to Colin and his mates in the UDA all those years ago that you couldn’t be loyal to Britain and sectarian.

    ‘We wanted loyalist people to remember the contribution the Poles made to defeating Hitler

    Hopefully, the UDA will further explain Poland’s previously secret involvement in WW2(hint: it all kicked off when Germany invaded it) by reminding people how Britain shafted the country by handing it over to Stalin at the end of a war they had apparently declared over Poland’s freedom. Non-racist British loyalists may subsequently think twice before pouring petrol through their letterboxes.

  • tom

    Or perhaps the uda can see a new customer for its drugs.

  • Or perhaps the Poles votes may hold the balance of power in the future in NI and as they are predominantly Catholic, Loyalists may be courting them to prevent them from becoming Nationalist/Republican?

    Any future vote on a UI might depend on the poles/immigrants votes.

  • BonarLaw

    Dec

    I would have thought that given Irish Republicanisms’ WWII flirtation with the Nazis the UKs’ relationship with twentieth centuary Poland shines in comparrison.

    (Interestingly the only “No Irish” sign I ever saw was at a Warsaw camp site in 1992. A bad experience of Hibernian Inter Railers or a long memory?)

  • Reader

    Dec: Presumably, then, we won’t see any Irish tricolours being burnt at bonfires this year, then?
    What is the connection between the two ideas? Unless you think the tricolour is the symbol for a race? Surely not!

  • Comrade Stalin

    What is the connection between the two ideas? Unless you think the tricolour is the symbol for a race? Surely not!

    Why else do you think it’s burnt ?

  • manichaeism

    Hopefully the descendents of the Poles in 300 years time won’t be insisting that they’re not really Irish and demanding that they be ruled from Warsaw!

  • Reader

    Comrade Stalin: Why else do you think it’s burnt ?
    Politics? Intolerance? Burning tricolours is like painting up ‘Brits out’ graffiti. But calling every flavour of narrow-mindedness ‘racism’ is not a helpful simplification. And wasn’t the flag burning referred to as ‘sectarianism’, here, not too long ago?

  • Pádraigín Drinan

    Congratulations Fiona and all in Old Warren involved in this.
    I’m not surprised at this initiative. After all, it was Old Warren that had a picket a few months back to show that they objected to racist attacks.
    And it was the women of Old Warren who supported their neighbouring estates in letting drug dealers know that they were not welcome.
    Old Warren has much to be proud of.

  • wild turkey

    Padraigin and lofstholdingwood

    spot on for your positive and encouraging comments. There seems to be an undercurrent on some comments here that looks for the dark lining of a silver, however tentative it might be, cloud.

    For the insightful if cynical boys on the rest of this thread. Maybe just once, encourage and support the people on the ground in their attempts to establishing a better life for all concerned. Or, you can chose to maintain your purity of vision and purpose.

    In any case. give over with the political handjobbery. It might excite you you, but stick to home matches.

    Regardless of your no doubt pure and coherent political agendas, Let people get on with their lives, however they may, in some relative peace quiet and safety… or you can continue to score cheap points from afar

    Celah

  • Dec

    I would have thought that given Irish Republicanisms’ WWII flirtation with the Nazis the UKs’ relationship with twentieth centuary Poland shines in comparrison

    BonarLaw

    Nice bit of whataboutery but if you think one man hitching a lift in a U-Boat is a far more serious crime than handing over an entire country (which btw made the fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort) to the most totalitarian regime in living memory then good luck to you.

  • Dec

    Let people get on with their lives, however they may, in some relative peace quiet and safety

    Wild Turkey

    The UDA don’t do irony, do they?

  • Gary Blair

    The Poles had a Hellish existence throughout the 20th Century. They were invaded by the Nazis and their intelligencia slaughtered and then shafted by the Allies who handed them over to the Commies who also slaughtered their intelligensia. Any wonder they find NI a good place to live – even here compares favourably with their experiences in the home country. Rather than wonder at the reasons for the Old Warren initiative, lets just hope other places adopt their policies.

  • Aquifer

    The Polish pilots were shocked to see the RAF flying along side by side as if on marching drill. They had already faced the Germans in the air and knew that this was asking for trouble, so refused to fly the old RAF way, luckily for all concerned.

  • British with a small b

    Dec, presumably you’ll be extending your tirade to take in the republican movement of the 40s whose avowedly anti-semitic leader died on a U-Boat after plotting with the Nazis?

  • Harry Flashman

    @GB

    “Nazis and their intelligencia slaughtered and then shafted by the Allies who handed them over to the Commies who also slaughtered their intelligensia.

    Any wonder they find NI a good place to live -”

    I’m sure you don’t mean by your statement that the Poles like NI because, just like back home, there’s no intelligentsia left 🙂

    Actually the story of the Poles is one of the truly heroic struggles of WWII (we’ll pass over their own wee flirtation with fascism before the war and their renewed anti-semitism after it).

    They faught both the National Socialist murderers of Hitler and the International Socialist murderers of Stalin with ferocious courage. They even were willing to swallow their pride and fight alongside the Russkies – despite the barbaric treatment they had received at the hands of the KGB – after Stalin switched sides (or more pertinently had his side switched for him when his former ally Hitler turned on him).

    They were treated shamefully by the Allies after the war, even being refused a place in the final victory parade in London for fear it might upset Uncle Joe.

  • ulstercanbanmanplease

    how come polish catholics can live there and not irish catholics?

  • loftholdingswood

    “The UDA don’t do irony, do they?”

    They may or they may not but one thing is for sure – they are taking strides towards a future where people can coexist without fear. I can understand constructive criticism (even a sense of disbelief at times) as to where the UDA are apparently going but sometimes it seems that the likes of “Dec” would much prefer to revert to the days of old when we all knew exactly where we stood with paramilitary groupings i.e violence, unblinking, unthinking violence. Now that the progressives from within seek to change they are faced with a barrage of snide remarks and reminders of the past. Should we encourage a return to the 70’s and 80’s then “Dec” ?. Was it fun for you then?.

    The more sensible amongst us will see this scheme (and hopefully more to follow) for what it is and welcome it and encourage more to do the same.

    “Wild turkey” – spot on.

  • Free Agent

    More of this please. Congrats to those involved.

  • Dec

    “Loftholdingswood”

    Should we encourage a return to the 70’s and 80’s then “Dec” ?. Was it fun for you then?.

    Oddly enough, I don’t yearn for a return to the days of attending funerals and mourning family and friends murdered by that organisation simply because of their nominal religion. I apologise if I’ve hurt your feelings, but pardon me for doubting the credentials of an organisation that names its initiatives after a racist sectarian bootboy who’s idea of an enjoyable day out was planning the murder of an 18-year postman then going off to watch Rangers play football.

    But as I said, if it stops immigrants being attacked then that’s a good thing. Just don’t kid yourself that people should drop to their knees thanking you for it.

    Ps how much will all this this cost the taxpayer? Or are you still preparing the invoice?

  • Banulsterman – plenty of Irish Catholics do live in Old Warren.

  • Diluted Orange

    ulstercanbanmanplease

    [i]how come polish catholics can live there and not irish catholics?[/i]

    Being from Lisburn I can tell you that plenty of Catholics live in Old Warren. There are even Catholic schools nearby; St Patrick’s High School and St. Aloysius primary. People slag off Lisburn but comparing it to other parts of NI it is a lot more tolerant than people give it credit for.

  • Steaky

    “political handjobbery”

    Quote of the day goes to Wild Turkey! Congrats

  • People slag off Lisburn but comparing it to other parts of NI it is a lot more tolerant than people give it credit for.

    I’m doing the profile for Lagan Valley now, and being the sort of Belfast Taig who thinks all those towns around are ‘black holes’, was very surprised how big the Catholic population in Lisburn. I sort of thought there were virtually no Catholics except on the Belsize Road, but Rathvarna is really the only area with virtually no Catholic population, and while Hillhall is only a little better, the rest of the town is suprisingly mixed. Even the estates.

  • Maybe I’m Amazed

    Yes!

    Congratulations to one and all especially those who want to move quickly to the next level and admit the Poles – especially the Catholic ones, to that most important organisation that holds the Unionist family and state together. I have even designed a new sash for them to wear. Why I can hear those lovely Catholic Poles singing the sash now….

    Meanwhile back in the real world some of the Polish kids are asking their Mothers ‘Mummy what’s a Taig?’ and ‘What’s a feinian’ ‘cos their neighbours seem to like shouting those names at them. Yeah – sticks and stones. Nothing compared to the next 12th when we will see the name of some unfortunate a top a bonfire because he happen to be murdered his only crime – being a taig.

    The time for cynicism is over – yeah right!