Ireland – the Argentina of Europe?

Broadcaster and former RAF fighter Cathal O’Shannon has put together a 2 hour documentary to air this week on RTE, looking at Ireland’s sheltering of Nazi war criminals. “Notorious Nazi war criminals were given safety in Ireland after the war and lived here under assumed names sanctioned by Eamon de Valera’s government. The killers, responsible for some of the worst ethnic cleansing atrocities of the Second World War, were told that Ireland would welcome them as they fled from the allies.” (See also: The founder of Folens was a member of the Gestapo)From the article by Nicola Tallant:

Prof Brian Girvan says that de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitler’s army. “He saw the Nazi regime as a nationalist regime that represented the German people to a certain extent. His stance doesn’t make him pro-Nazi but he was very narrow in his focus on them. There was also, in Ireland, a scepticism about the right of the Allies to accuse anyone of being a war criminal. And so it was that if someone did arrive in Ireland the Irish government wouldn’t arrest and expel them from the country.”

This sounds very like Ireland’s ambivalent attitude towards “the war on terror” (for lack of a better catchphrase) today. For example, many people see Islamic fundamentalist groups as representing ‘downtrodden Muslims’ – they wouldn’t nessecarily agree with Islamic fundamentalism in any way, nor endorse their end goal, but like the idea of their resistance of the West (i.e., America and the UK). When Saddam Hussein was executed, a common refrain was similar to the scepticism described above. So, who is Ireland sheltering today, and will history look on it kindly? Any Rwandan war criminals out there, or Sundanese, Congolese, Colombian? How about any Balkan war criminals? Are they too finding an “Ireland of the Welcomes”? What do you think?

‘Hidden History: Ireland’s Nazis’ will be shown next Tuesday on RTE One at 10.15pm (webpage will likely be updated later)

  • Yokel

    Is this a surprise to anyone?

  • ingram

    The biggest sanctuary for these criminals was in the UK and USA.

    Given the Ireland did not have a rocket program or an arms industry of any kind it is difficult to see what the gain for Ireland was.

    The allies would have known and so it must have been sanctioned. There are no secrets in Ireland from the Brits or the Yanks.

    Martin

  • lib2016

    There’s a TV programme coming up this week on the 1000-strong community clustered around Obins Street in Portadown. Unfortunately I haven’t got the details with me but I will post them tomorrow if someone else doesn’t do it first.

    We’ve had numerous posts on past threads about where our new citizens sympathies are likely to lie so this might just shed some light on the subject.

  • lib2016

    “There are no secrets…..”

    Yeah….we saw what a success they made of Internment Day!

  • ingram

    LIB2016.

    Are you suggesting internment was not a success?

    or

    are you refering to the leaders like Martin McGuinness escaping across the border the day before?

    Just interested.

    Martin

  • It’s very likely that the allies did know about Artukovic in particular. The CIA, MI6 and the Vatican were all involved in supporting ratlines for Croatian Ustashe escaping from Tito.
    This was a time when Trieste and the Yugoslav-Austrian border was becoming one of the first flashpoints of the cold war.

  • George

    While I am a big fan of showing the complicity of or lack of leadership of states on issues like these, I think to compare Ireland to Argentina or to say Dev “identified with Hitler’s Army” is egging the pudding somewhat.

    If Ireland was a haven for war criminals then it would be safe to assume that they came in their thousands or at least hundreds.

    After all, this is Nazi Germany and its actions throughout Europe we are talking about here. There were certainly enough to go around.

    This programme seems to have found one short of a handful and as for comparing Ireland with Argentina, I would like to see any evidence of this.

    I would also like to see evidence of where Dev “sanctioned” these people living in Ireland under “assumed names” as this post implies.

    As for refusing requests from the US or anyone else, Dev also refused requests from the Vatican regarding refugees.

    By the way, much-maligned Argentina also took in 40,000 Jewish refugees between 1933 and 1945.

  • iluvni

    The Colombia 3 appear to be home free, by the looks of it.
    Welcomed home with open arms.

  • George

    Iluvni,
    the Colombian government haven’t applied for their extradition.

    They are all Irish citizens who aren’t wanted in this jurisdiction so what do you recommend within the rule of law?

  • Cahal

    Hardly on the same level as Operation Paperclip.

  • Secur O’Crat

    Cui bono? Who gains? Zionism for one. Look at all the letters international Zionists put into the Irish Indo justifying their exterminaiton campaigns. Having failed to get the expulsion of Lithuanian bloodsuckers from Limerick branded as a pogrom (what an abuse of English), they are now on about this. Otto Skorzeny, for one, was a frequent visitor to Ireland but what of it?
    The Croatians and Flemish were not the only ones fleeing persectution or looking for opportunities at the time. Basil Chubb of Trinity College decided to seek his fortune in Ireland by stdying politics when he was an MI5/RAF POW in Germany. Who elevated him on high and why?

    O’Shannon is also ex RAF. I am sure Mossad fed him the names. Now that Ireland is rich, the dossers of Isrsel no doubt want their cut. Instead of singling out hard working Croatians in modern Ireland, it might be time to look at Mossad’s activities down the years and maybe send the more vociferous ones back to Zion. Ireland would be well rid of them.

    At the Battle of the Bulge and elsewhere, Joachim Piper was one of the great SS heroes. He later did a few years for the Malmedy massavcre when his men allegedly whacked a few hundred Americans in their own shoot to kill policy. Piper explained that his SS men hated the enemey because they had seen what Bomber Command did to their families at Dresden and other places. after Piper got out, he (stupidly) moved to France where some cowards later murdered him and got away with it. Reminds me of the brave INLA torching a supposed Nazi’s house some years ago; that guy had been previously fingered by our brave media. Now Mossad, through their useful idiots, are at it again.

  • Secur O’Crat

    Is the former Mexican President stil hiding out in Blackrock by the way? On the subject of Rwanda, why are the downtrodden Hutus punished and the Tutsis and Belgians given a free pass? Remember what James Connolly said about Belgium. Also, is it not odd having the war crimes tribunal in the Hague, given the Dutch were such colonialist bastards? And when do we get to see Yanks being strung up? And yes, given the history of Ireland, we should admire the resistance fighters of Iraq and Afghanistan and, if nothing else, see why they have the respect of the Sunni world, especially when compared to the Castle Sunnis the Yanks installed in Bagdad. The Iraqi government belong in a black comedy sketch. And they will get their come uppance. Globalization, my friends, is at an end. Not everyone can be bought off.

  • The Devil

    Ireland being the Argentina of Europe makes perfect sense once you have thought about it a little, because the two countries have so much in common they are like mirror images.
    For starters both countries suffered military defeats at the hands of the British army also both were economic disasters with high unemployment and spiraling inflation and now both have the luxury of residing in an economic boom period, and other similarities are that, well… emm…ah… uh… oh… not much really

    Argentina welcome tourists, Ireland fleece them
    Argentina gave the world Fangio we gave it joy-riders
    Argentina have cattle roaming the pampas, ours roam Bradbury Place and Castle St.
    Argentina only let Nazi’s into their country we let Nazi’s run ours
    Argentina gave the world Ernesto Guevara de la Serna, we gave it Gerry Adams
    Argentina gave the world Haydee Bunke Bider we gave it Mary Lou McDonald
    Argentina had Eva Peron and we have Danna

    Yeah that list of similarities never ends does it

  • Rory

    “Broadcaster and former RAF fighter Cathal O’Shannon”

    Was he an RAF fighter in the sense that Davy Crockett was an Indian fighter, i.e. did he fight the RAF? Or was he a secret useful addition to the Hurricane and the Spitfire ? I think we should be told.

  • Secur O’Crat

    Rory: Most Speical Services soldiers are trainers, cock suckers and the like. Today, war is a matter of logistics. Just look at all the Israeli and American drone controllers who kill Arab children fror example. The key thing is O’Shannon was part of the British war machine. Is he still doing his bit for England, home and beauty by spreading anti Irish, pro Zionist crap like this. RTE should do prgrammes outing British collaborators. Was Conor Cruise O’Brien on the payroll for example? How about the entire McNeill family? Just how many MI5 spies have been infiltrated into the Southern structure? At least Judas had the decency to do the right thing.

  • CS Parnell

    Not all the Nazi war criminals are dead: look at Secur O’Crat for instance.

    By the way Herr O’Crat. Don’t say “international Zionists” when you mean the Jews. Your esteemed leader Mr A Hitler of Munich was never afraid to be direct, so I don’t think you should be.

    By the way, Black is so slimming, but that death’s head thing is sooooo 1940s.

  • Secur O’Crat

    CS Parnell
    As I am not a Nazi, I cannot be a Nazi war criminal. Italy still hunts down old Nazis but has never jailed one Italian for their massive crimes against Arabs, Ethiopians and Serbo Croatians.

    Do you think the Italians deserve a free pass the way fascist Israel is given a free pass all the time by the USA, home to more Nazis today than anywhere else. Do you think the people who murdered Jo Piper when he was an old man were heroes? What about the INLA who torched the house but stil have not coughed up Seamus Ruddy’s body?

    Do you think objecting to Israel’s genocidal attack in South Lebanon and praising the heroic resistance of the locals makes one a Nazi?
    Do you think Israel should pay its way in the world? Do you think they should have weapons of mass destruction and be allowed detain Lebanese citizens for almost 20 years now? What about slaughtering Palestineans? Ahould they pay reparations for the genocides they committed in Jericho and other places?

    What about its unprovioked and sustained attack on the USS Liberty? Was that kosher?

    How about objecting to the lynching of Saddam so that he would not spill the beans on the Yanks? As the fascist state of Israel armed Iran against Iraq, maybe you can say someting on that.

    As regards your invoking Hitler, Hitler was anti smoking and he instituted the world’s first wide ranging anti smoking measures. Does that make campaigners against smoking Nazis?

    The sectarian state of Israel is a fascist state and its defenders are apologists for fascism. Would that they would all return to Zion.

    And as regards being anti Jewish, why prattle Hitler’s name? Why not Voltaire or Martin Luther or Karl Marx, all of whom condemned them in language as extreme as Hitler’s?

    I am against all bullies and all gunmen, those with bigger guns, bombs and bullets in particular. Enjoy Mr Cathal Bomber Command O’Shannon. Spare a thought for the hundreds of thousands of Croats and White Russians handed over to Tito and Stalin after the war. Or even the 100,000 Berlin women the Red Army raped. Or the tens of thousands of Serbs and Croats they raped and which Tito complained about and Stalin laughed off. Next time you see a Pole, think of the Katyn Forest massacre. Or, long story short, just keep mouthing cliches. It’s easier that way.

  • aquifer

    There seem to be a few red herrings being thrown about, this must be worth watching:

    ‘Hidden History: Ireland’s Nazis’ will be shown next Tuesday on RTE One at 10.15pm

  • After reading Secur O’Croat’s diverting posts I had to go back to the top of the page to see what we were supposed to be discussing. Sure enough, he was pretty much ignoring the topic of Nazis in Ireland.

    Still, conspiracy theories are generally good for a laugh.

    Any chance of getting back on topic? Or should I muddy the waters further by asking whether any parties to the conflict in Sri Lanka have any resemblance to the central European gentlemen referred to above?

  • Ian Tims

    Anyone know if the tapes of the Folens interview have been uploaded yet?