“if the DUP respond positively…”

Alex Attwood reckons that Sinn Fein’s Ard Chomhairle’s decision is an unalloyed positive move. But of course there are conditions. The ball, he reckons, is now in the DUP court.From Alex Attwood

“The provision of Sinn Fein’s is welcome and brings a sense of relief. It is welcome that having called policing so wrong for so long, Sinn Fein are now moving in the direction of doing the right thing. There is a sense of relief that in the near future anybody will have the freedom to join the police, to assist the police, or participate in policing structures after recent years of those same people being demonised.

“The nationalist community have made it increasingly clear its view on the new policing arrangements. Thousands have been applying to join the police. International experts confirm that 85% of Patten has been substantially or fully accomplished in only 5 years with the rest of Patten being pushed on by the Policing Board and policing structures. The PSNI is clearly a very different service than the old RUC. This has been achieved and driven by the work of the SDLP. Sinn Fein’s belated acceptance of policing sits in stark contrast with the success and achievement of the SDLP and policing structure over the last five and six years.

“Sinn Fein has said that if the DUP respond positively then the Ard Fheis would take place in January. The Ard Fheis should take place in January because Irish democracy requires all parties to accept the rule of law and policing. Sinn Fein must continue to do the right thing on policing and not wait and see if the DUP blink. If Sinn Fein do wait, it conveys a sense that republicans do things for the DUP and not for the people of Ireland. This is one occasion when the right thing must be done and there should be not doubt about it.”

  • Henry94

    The pressure on the DUP comes from the fact that they have always united around conditions and pre-conditions which cloaked the natural division between those who would share power and those who would not.

    It’s going to be interesting. I don’t doubt the compromisers will be the majority but the size of the rump will be the question.

  • Gerry Adams was just show-boating when he refered to the DUP response.

    He is much too long in the tooth to allow the DUP to set the agenda.

    He has just sent them a curve ball, focused the spotlight on the DUP.

    The hand of history is about to land in NI, this time it is for real.

  • Sean

    When Alex Attwood speaks of “…a sense of relief that in the near future anybody will have the freedom to join the police, to assist the police, or participate in policing structures after recent years of those same people being demonised.”, I would go one step further. let’s not forget that some people were murdered, treasonously, in the name of “a free Ireland” when they chose to join the Police. Sinn Fein are hypocrits of the highest order and it’s only a shame that it took them so long to realise that moderate nationalism (namely the SDLP) was right 30/40 years ago when the Shinners were busy supporting the murder of their fellow countrymen.

  • Miss Fitz

    Yeah but Sean, surely the point is now that they have. Everything we do here seems to be tainted by a past that chains us and everything that is done.

    We have two choices, sit on a bench and say it’s no good because of what preceded it, or on the other hand, reach out and accept cautious steps toward change

  • Gerry and the Sellouts

    Jan 2008: Adams calls for re-conquest of the 26 Counties.
    Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams last night called upon the British government to retake the 26 Counties. Urging republicans to “embrace change” Adams argued that his unification strategy remained on course

  • Sean

    miss Fitz, I take your point and to some degree at least, would agree with where I think you are going but (and in Norn Iron there’s always a BUT!)…., as morally bankrupt and offensive as i may find the Shinners, I think it is wise AND fair criticism to consider that past deeds indicate that, as a party, their past judgements have ruled them unfit for service?

  • Miss Fitz

    Thats a hard one historically isnt it? Parties of ‘revolution’ come to government, often with blood on their hands. Look at the post Civil War government of 1922 in the ROI. Indeed, the taint of civil war politics is only just beginning to fade. For many years after the state began, taunts were shouted from each side of the House reminding the other of atrocities from the Civil War. It hasnt been a hundred years yet, and from what I can see it takes a hundred years.

    Do those acts make them unfit for government? Well Sean, if they arent in government, where would you have them? In ditches wearing balaclavas and setting bombs? No, I think that democratic governance is the way to go, and we must remember that this can be done, no matter how unpalatable it may appear to people on all sides.

    Dont think I dont see your point, I do, but looking at the alternatives, which would you have?

  • gerry

    Is Alex hinting that this is being done for different reasons that the ones SF have given? Are Sf doing this, not because they want to do the right thing, but because Irish democracy demands all parties support for the rule of law and policing? Perhaps he could be clearer, but inmy view Alex is saying SF are doing this with an eye on elections in the south. Therefore, doing the right thing in and of its self is not enough for SF, there has to be something in it for them. Very upstanding people in SF.
    I don’t know where Alex’s evidence is on thousands of nationalists joining the police comes from, but at least they SDLP have been consistent, and I would have to bow to their superior knowledge on this. Sean is right. As far as constitutional nationalism goes, the SDLP have been consistent, and in there fighting for their beliefs. The SDLP deserve credit, for sticking to what they believe in.

  • William Barton

    A bit of perspective here. I was down in Dublin for Christmas, with family and friends. The talk there is of cheerful things, such as holidays, future plans, house prices (not quite so cheerful anymore) and the general inane delights of existence in the modern developed world. There are many levels on which I disagree with capitalism, but it has led to a strong degree of personal fulfilment in Ireland (Rep.). To Belfast, and I am faced by the dreary, rain- and drink- sodden reality that is Norn Iron/the Six Counties. The fact that SF may finally accept the right of the PSNI (and by extension the British presence in NI/6 Co.) to exist is the main news here. This is presented as some seismic shift, the saddest reality being that, in our little world, it actually is. (Some labour under the illusion that “the world watches” these things. Wake up, guys, they stopped in 1998. We had our 15 minutes. Over.)

    To one and all, get a f***ing life now and vote these idiots (on both sides) out, and vote for people who will make us able to forget about dreary, monotone faces like Adams and Paisley, and worry about trivia such as the best place to get chorizo iberico bellota, or new emerging property hotspots. Any injustice here (past or, as if, present) is nothing compared with the daily misery of life in hundreds of places around the world. Face reality.

    I hear you say there are no such politicians here, and I fear you are right. My New Year’s resolution for 2007? Southward bound, as life is too short for Northern Ireland.

  • ingram

    Miss Fitz.

    quote”Do those acts make them unfit for government? Well Sean, if they arent in government, where would you have them? In ditches wearing balaclavas and setting bombs?

    How about putting them in Jail for breaking the law of the land whether that be North or South.

    The line in the sand is now very clear. Sinn Fein members will be required to co-operate with the police at every opportunity to quell any dissent within the broader Republican family.

    In any decent society you prosecute those that threaten to set Bombs and hide in ditches wearing Balaclavas for a political purpose or to make a few quid on the side.

    Thank God we have moved away from that activity BUT from now on Sinn Fein are on the British bus, they will be required to match their words and support for the British criminal justice system with hard and fast deeds.

    Martin

  • Henry94

    ingram

    The line in the sand is now very clear. Sinn Fein members will be required to co-operate with the police at every opportunity to quell any dissent within the broader Republican family.

    Where on earth did you get that idea? The Ard Fheis can decide party policy but it certainly can’t mandate individual party members to do anything.

    How policing works out on the ground will depend on the willingness of individuals to put their trust in the police. This decision will give the police an opportunity to prove themselves but only that. It’s up to them to take it.

    The citizen owes the police noting. They are there to serve the people not the other way around.

  • Truth and Justice

    The DUP have to be positive they have really pulled it of lets hope the looney wing dont panick when they realize just that.

  • joeCanuck

    Please don’t feed the resident troll. I beg you. Please.

  • Sean

    I think you are right to point out that “Parties of ‘revolution’ come to government, often with blood on their hands.” IMO, too many people choose to forget this when it (rather conveniently) fits a particular political agenda. However, as one who is proud of his Irish identity, country and culture, I am prepared, in the spirit of furthering peaceful progress for all society to make sacrifices, to avoid being becoming bogged down in the multitude of unforgivable treasonous wrong-doings by arrogantly self-proclaimed Irish Republicans.

    In answer to your question, ”Do those acts make them unfit for government?” my answer would be “Yes”, but unlike some, I respect the principles of democracy. However, I don’t believe that it is the past treasonous misgivings alone of Militant Irish Republicanism that renders it “unfit” for government. Without doubt, SF have learnt much about PR and self-promotion from America. They are certainly outstanding in that field and the Nationalist people who depend on “spin” and “soundbite” to form their political judgment have rewarded them accordingly. There are many examples of SF contradiction and lack of coherent logic but, by way of an example, it was only recently (2/3 weeks?) that Gerry Kelly, in the Stormount chamber, called for the Tricolor to be flown over all police stations. He clearly didn’t realise that Patten had done away with flags being flown (all flags) and that if he was seriously calling for the reversal (even in part) of the Pattern proposal it would mean under Equal Rights legislation, the flying of the Union Jack too! All this from a so-called Irish Republican! There are many other examples and this is just one, however I have noted that many of their own supporters are growing increasingly tired of SF, seeing them as great at self-promotion but shallow on substance; seeing them as great with the single issue of Irish Unity (nobody does it better kind of thing) but hopeless as a party capable of running a micro-economy or dealing with the serious social issues of the day.

    With regards to where I would have them…? Now there’s a leading question! I’m sure by now you could have a fairly good guess! However I think little of the militant Irish Republican premise which seems to be suggesting that we can freely choose to vote SF into power OR they (militant Irish Republicanism) will rearm itself with the bomb and bullet. Some choice!

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sinn Fein are hypocrits of the highest order and it’s only a shame that it took them so long to realise that moderate nationalism (namely the SDLP) was right 30/40 years ago when the Shinners were busy supporting the murder of their fellow countrymen.

    Sean, I’m pretty sure that you’re a Stoop stooge speaking on Slugger, but let me assure you that some of us have not forgotten Hume’s rejection of the 91/92 Brooke talks. Some of us remember with total clarity Hume’s rejection of a deal with moderate unionism, and his assertion that the IRA would have to be part of the solution if there were to be a peaceful resolution in our country.

    What you say above was true in the early 1990s when the SDLP strongly advocated talking to Sinn Fein, and strongly advocated their involvement in the future here – this all well in advance of their constitutional rationalization.

    The SDLP have a hell of a lot to answer for.

  • BeardyBoy

    Only the voters can say who is fit for government – is is called democracy – if they get it wrong they suffer – simple enough even for the Unionists to understand I would have thought

  • Sean

    Stalin, wake up and smell the feckin coffee! If you want to label me as “SDLP” then that’s fine by me but, in the words of someone far greater than I, “It is you who say I am.” As for the “I’m sure you’re a STOOP but…” crap, you can stick it. Though I owe no allegiance to the SDLP, I see no shame if I actually did! I’m sure you’re a sycophantic supporter of the hype, spin and drivel that the treasonous Shinners drip feed plastic nationalist plebs but hey…., what does your opinion of me or mine of you matter? It doesn’t so shut the feck up and play the ball!

    As I have said, I fully respect any democratically mandated party, especially those whose politics I oppose! So what’s your point? Do you even have one?

    It just so happens that SF are a single issue party. They’re great at talking up Irish Unity – it’s what they’re good at and for thirty or forty years they thought the bomb and bullet was the way to go about it! Visionary? I don’t think so! Hume is a man of vision. He and many like him, could see that militant republicanism needed to be brought in to the decision-making process. I supported that then and history has proven him right.

  • doris

    At the end of the day, the people will decide.

    Nationalists & Republicans will determine their own future.

    I totally agree with the Sinn Fein decision on policing. As a former SDLP voter, who changed to voting Sinn Fein, i feel vindicated in my choice to choose a party who will try to end British rule in Ireland through the strength of the people.

    British rule in the 6 counties will end with the Nationalist community taking control of the systems of governance.

    It began with Hume and it will end in unity.

  • Crataegus

    Doris

    British rule in the 6 counties will end with the Nationalist community taking control of the systems of governance.

    British involvement will end a lot sooner if you can persuade a percentage of the Unionist community that a United Ireland is in their best interests!

    I find the timing interesting. The election is in March, so nominations will be early February. There is not a lot of time for the backwoods lot in the DUP or SF to get organised and cause some real trouble. It also limits the opportunity for Bob and Co to do damage. However if this lands badly in the DUP or SF camps they will be heading into an election in utter disarray.

  • Seán

    The Alex Attwood statement is the usual tired and dreary stuff pumped out by the SDLP in the last few months.

    Its a hard pill for them to swallow that they are now just bit players in politics here

  • dalek

    I presume post 20 is by a different seán?

    Would agree with Miss Fitz and a substantial amount of what the other Sean has said.

    Let’s just say that the lines have bluured so much between the SDLP and Nu-Sinn Fein that it is becoming increasingly difficult to tell the difference.

    i also liked William Bartons point as regards concentrating on the chorizo and taking a world view…Northern Ireland..Insularity..hello!!!!!!

  • EPM

    As a former SF voter, who changed to voting SDLP, I feel vindicated in my choice to choose a party who I know has and will use entirely peaceful democratic means to bring an end to British rule in Ireland. I wont be lending the treasonous plebs my vote again.

  • Alex

    just tried the DUPes Web site, un-available?????

  • daisy

    Alex Attwood and the SDLP have been proven right, again. Everyone said it was going to happen and it has!

  • Elvis Parker

    Doris:
    ‘British rule in the 6 counties will end with the Nationalist community taking control of the systems of governance.

    It began with Hume and it will end in unity. ‘

    If you believe that ….

  • Truth and Justice

    What a load of nonscience you must be living in Alice and Wonderland

  • Seán

    I have to laugh at those posting ,ex Sinn Féin this and that and the SDLP were right all along ,the elections over the last few years have proved the Nationalist community dont agree with them and as a politcal voice or force the SDLP are just bit players in the process

  • Observer

    The Provos are split right down the middle on Policing. The meeting lasted six hours and as reported in the Irish Times yesterday; ‘Adams looked tired and weary’ – he had it rough. Even a prominant Provo over on Balrog is foaming at the mouth over this issue. He does not support the Police and indeed does not want too. He is one of many.

    Sinn Fein are going to have great trouble here. I suspect the leadership will pull through at their conference and get the majority of people to back the police. However they will face losing alot of grassroot support and their candidates in the forthcoming election will face an uphill struggle left with the option of further taking the SDLP vote.

    Sinn Fein will aim to steal the SDLP clothes, if they have not already done – however their suits probably aren’t as fancy!

    They would hope that his strategy will be of benefit to them in such constituencies as South Antrim – where McLoughlan hopes to make in roads, Foyle – failing to make gains in 2005, make further advances in South Belfast against the SDLP however albeit with one high profiled candidate against the SDLP’s D.L. McDonnell, South Down – with ROI native Ruane already working at full steam while trying to swing an election in her favour in Middle-class SDLP territory Warrenpoint and Lagan Valley.

    Lagan Valley is an interesting one with the sitting MLA Patricia Lewsley stepping down.

    It is my understanding that 3 people are seeking nomination here. Two of the 3 candidates are people people will never have heard of with one ‘blow in’ from Newry and Cllr Heading making up the third possible candidate.

    Sinn Feins Paul Butler will hope to make advances on the SDLP vote with the aim to ‘swing it’ in his favour pulling in more transfers where they lost in 2003.

    In my opinion the sixth Lagan Valley seat is a toss up between Alliance’s Trevor Lunn, Lisburn Mayor with a fairly good profile who will seek to retain and make gains on Seamus Close’s vote, Sinn Fein – as already indictated and the SDLP. The DUP will take at least 3, the UUP perhaps 2 with a great possibility of just holding 1 and the DUP taking it therefore leaving one ‘lose’ seat.

    Sinn Fein will be likely to receive more 1st preferences, however that may depend on who the SDLP candidate is and will therefore hope to get those valuable transfers with alot of money (perhaps Northern Bank) holding on the policing issue.

    Alliance voters are likely to either transfer to a Unionist or the SDLP depending on personal preference.

    The Shinners are hopeful on the SDLP making a mistake in selecting a ‘nobody’ or a candidate not known to man. This was shown in their immediate reatcion by putting Tim Attwoods name out there.

    I understand the earlist the SDLP can hold a selection meeting is mid-January losing very valuable time to fight a campaign giving the Provos a clear run until then with any SDLP candidate having very little time to make decent inroads.

    The Shinners are good at publicity whereas the SDLP are not. This is shown in those Provos who comment on this blog/web site. Their aim is to create an image that the SDLP is finished, however they are mistaken as just look at the loser McLaughlan running to South Antrim after the SDLP’s great Durkan victory and indeed McGrady’s victory over Provo Ruane in South Down.

    If the SDLP pick the right candidate here who is right in front of them they could prevent a further humiliating loss.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sean:

    Stalin, wake up and smell the feckin coffee! If you want to label me as “SDLP” then that’s fine by me but, in the words of someone far greater than I, “It is you who say I am.” As for the “I’m sure you’re a STOOP but…” crap, you can stick it….

    Ah yes, the misdirected rant of a touched nerve.

    Though I owe no allegiance to the SDLP, I see no shame if I actually did!

    I don’t get it. Getting Sinn Fein into government was a stated policy objective of the SDLP for almost all of the 1990s. The SDLP argued that there could not be a peace process here without SF being in it. And yet, here you are saying how wrong their campaign was, how treasonous they were, and how the SDLP were right in opposing them. You sound like you’re a bit confused.

    I’m sure you’re a sycophantic supporter of the hype, spin and drivel that the treasonous Shinners drip feed plastic nationalist plebs but hey….,

    You must be new here. Most people are aware that I am the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. You may call be “Vozhd”. I like to think of myself as a constitutional communist.

    Heh, I remember John Hume’s European election leaflets during the 90s where he called himself a “life-long socialist”. I wish I hadn’t disbanded the Comintern.

  • Sean

    “…the elections over the last few years have proved the Nationalist community dont agree with them and as a politcal voice…”

    Predictable sycophantic dribble from Seán! He conveniently chooses not to mention the fact that for thirty years or more, the voting population told the Provos and SF they didn’t agree with an armed struggle. Did it stop them from treasonously taking it on themselves to murder their fellow countrymen, women and children? Did it feck! Such is the arrogant spin propagated by Shinner sycophants who like to think that any Nationalist voice who doesn’t agree with them just doesn’t count… Anybody else see a pattern here? It’s the same sickening attitude as demonstrated by Seán that put men in their graves.

  • Even a prominant Provo over on Balrog is foaming at the mouth over this issue

    Who?????????

  • Sean

    Stalin,

    It is you who seems overly familiar and no stranger to “misdirected rants” and “touched nerves” . It would appear that you didn’t bother reading my post 01:47 post in full before jumping feet first into a rant about yourself and your politics. Do you find people ignore you at home? I couldn’t careless if you think Marx wads a visionary. Are you capable of comprehending that? If you read my post again you will see that I stated, quite clearly, my support for John Hume’s visionary view of the need for bringing militant republicanism in out of the cold. Now if people want to label me as “SDLP”, “a STOOP” or any other associated term, that’s fine. I can only say that for the record, I have no strong affiliation to that party (or any other for that matter!) But why, oh why, would anybody think that necessarily follows that I support the circumstance which brought situation in the irst place, (namely the treasonous Provo armed struggle)? Nonsense! Hindsight and history has shown that he adopted the right position for dealing with the Provos (and loyalist paramilitaries for tat matter) but he didn’t create the situation. John Hume wasn’t risking the lives of his fellow countrymen by blowing them up in bomb attacks – that was the Provo response and treasonous response at that!

  • Comrade Stalin

    I couldn’t careless if you think Marx wads a visionary.

    Clearly you are a counter-revolutionary opportunist, Sean – or should I say “Leon” ? You will be dispatched to the gulags forthwith.

    John Hume wasn’t risking the lives of his fellow countrymen by blowing them up in bomb attacks

    No, but he made the people behind those attacks acceptable. That’s Hume’s legacy. Instead of self-promotion, Hume would have been more notable if he’d led the SDLP into backing the process during the Brooke talks. We may well have had powersharing by now if he had. Still, we are where we are.

  • lib2016

    ‘..Hume would have been more notable if he’d led the SDLP into backing the process during the Brooke talks.’

    Such a policy would only have led to the SDLP losing all influence and support before Sinn Fein had been brought in from the cold. Before anything could be done on the political front we needed peace – the Brooke talks were shadow boxing to keep Molyneux and the rest happy while the real talks were going on elsewhere.

    The Brits were still leading unionism on with the carrot of integration – a meaningless promise only made because it kept unionist MP’s in line at Westminster.

    It was the British Conservative Party which made Ulster unionism all those years ago and which has now discarded it.

  • Sean

    “…John Hume wasn’t risking the lives of his fellow countrymen by blowing them up in bomb attacks

    No, but he made the people behind those attacks acceptable…”

    No but…
    Yeah but..
    No but…
    Yeah but…
    etc etc etc

    At the time (in the early seventies?) JH could see that the Provos needed to be shown and allowed an alternative, if peace were to ever to see the light of day and for that he deserves our thanks and acknowledgment. Others at the time could have made the same judgment call, but they didn’t. “Why?” can be discussed at length elsewhere but the fact remains that JH made the visionary call; some may say to his own personal detriment and that of his party. Society needed a way back to peace and JH could see the path to take. It was never going to be quick and never going to easy but he could see the route down which society need to travel.

    What JH did NOT do was make “the people behind those attacks acceptable.” He did nothing to glorify, condone or glamorize their treasonous deeds; quite the contrary in fact. When others were busy demonising the Provos, he set about the task of showing militant republicanism an alternative. That is why, though I have no affiliation to the SDLP, if people choose to label me as “a STOOP” or with other similar tags as has been the case here on the SLUG’, I really don’t have a problem with it!

  • Comrade Stalin

    lib:

    Such a policy would only have led to the SDLP losing all influence and support before Sinn Fein had been brought in from the cold.

    Confusing suggestion you have there. SDLP losing support and influence *before* the rise of SF ?

    You mightn’t have noticed, but the SDLP have no influence. They have (somewhat diminished) support, but due to the way the “peace process” is rigged (by their design) only the largest parties from “the two communities” (spit) get to have any say.

    Secondly, it’s very hard to say what would have happened to SF if it had not been for Hume-Adams. I don’t think their rise would have happened by default; it happened because Hume made it acceptable for the middle classes to support paramilitaries who claimed to be reforming. Either way, personally I think the IRA was tired out, and it probably would have gone the way that the loyalists have now, pressured on one hand by feuding and on the other by British infiltration. It couldn’t sustain the war, not after the Brits stating during the Brooke talks that they had no selfish/economic interest in this place.

    Sean : I find your response, particularly the first part, rather derivative and childish. But I’ll humour you one more time.

    JH could see that the Provos needed to be shown and allowed an alternative, if peace were to ever to see the light of day and for that he deserves our thanks and acknowledgment.

    This is demonstrably wrong, take a look at the facts and forget about Hume for a second. Remember, the Brits (before this Hume-Adams business was under way) received a communication from the IRA that they had had enough and wanted to work with them to find a way out. The IRA came to the conclusion that it had to stop the violence without Hume’s involvement. I’d say they were working on it for a while, but the Shankill bomb allowed to the doves to win out. Sinn Fein needed Hume to make them acceptable to the nationalist middle classes, so that they could win votes, overtake the SDLP and persue the struggle politically.

    Now, I’m sure the stoops like to think that Saint John persuaded that bunch of uncouth bloodthirsty ruffians about the benefits of peace and how killing people was bad. Do you really think that Hume went into a room full of guys who knew nothing but the gun and said, “Look lads, the guns aren’t working, why don’t you try politics?. Nonsense. It’s damn obvious that the ‘RA made up their mind by themselves, and they did so long before Hume-Adams came to the fore. They are not stupid. I reckon that Gerry Adams knew that the war couldn’t continue by the mid 1980s, and I reckon he started working on trying to shift republicans over to the ballot box since that time – the Bobby Sands election was the watershed there. I’d say that Hume-Adams was an SF initiative, not an SDLP initiative. Obviously the first thing Adams needed to do to make the peaceful path work was eliminate his competition at the ballot box. Worked pretty well.

    Society needed a way back to peace and JH could see the path to take.

    I remember by mid-1998 that JH’s path was shown pretty comprehensively to be bollocks, given that the IRA ceasefire was suspended and they started killing people again.

    What JH did NOT do was make “the people behind those attacks acceptable.”

    Now you’re just being silly. What do you think SF got out of Hume-Adams ? Why do you think they were in it in the first place ? They knew could not just call a ceasefire and expect to get votes. ETA tried that a few years ago, and it didn’t work. They needed endorsement from a moderate face with a certain amount of credibility. That is where Hume came in.

    When others were busy demonising the Provos, he set about the task of showing militant republicanism an alternative.

    The Provos demonized themselves. Christ’s sake they killed 3500 people. You reckon people didn’t like them because of some kind of media or PR problem ?

    If I were a republican, I’d be patronized and insulted by your suggestion that I knew nothing about peaceful means until Saint John explained it all to me. I think you need to dig out a history book and educate yourself on the true role of Hume, and stop assuming that the chuckies are knuckle dragging idiots – they aren’t.

  • kensei

    “t’s damn obvious that the ‘RA made up their mind by themselves, and they did so long before Hume-Adams came to the fore. They are not stupid. I reckon that Gerry Adams knew that the war couldn’t continue by the mid 1980s, and I reckon he started working on trying to shift republicans over to the ballot box since that time – the Bobby Sands election was the watershed there. I’d say that Hume-Adams was an SF initiative, not an SDLP initiative.”

    While it was obviously not a one way thing, Hume undoubtedly took some great political risks and did a lot in bringing both Republicans in and bringing others to Republicans. This isn’t a binary thing – you can give Hume credit without being patronising to Republicans.

  • Sean

    “It’s damn obvious that the ‘RA made up their mind by themselves”

    “They (sic the Provos) are not stupid.”

    “I’d say that Hume-Adams was an SF initiative.”

    Whatever you claim your politics are, a true sycophantic Shinner couldn’t have said it better!

    The Provos needed to be coerced away from violence. JH set about that task. The Provos thought they could win a war against the British Army – that’s stupid! Other than society at large and at a personal level, only one person had something to gain from the Hume –Adams talks and it wasn’t JH. I think kensei is right to point out that you can give Hume credit without being patronising to Republicans but, if by “Republicans” you mean the Provos, I have only contempt for them because it was they who callously, treasonously and cold-bloodedly turned their bombs and bullets on their fellow countrymen.