Policing Committee meets as threats confirmed

The Policing and Justice sub-committee is to hold its inaugural meeting with a progress report required in early January. Meanwhile Sinn Fein’s policing spokesperson, Gerry Kelly, has received PSNI notification of a dissident threat to his life.

  • Secur O’Crat

    And the Fre State collaborators are going to try to stitch up Bik Peacenik McFarlane for the Tody kidnap/execution of Free Staters. The Peace Process has never been in more jeopardy.

  • seabhac siúlach

    Is there not some contradiction here…a man who does not yet (fully) support the PSNI (and who once, on a similar disgarded principle, would not have even set foot in a partitionist Stormont…) is more than willing and happy to trumpet its ‘warnings’ on the day he is in Stormont to attend a sub-group on policing and justice.
    These ‘warnings, whether real or not, are politically very useful to Sinn Fein (and boy, have they talked them up) in deflecting attention away from the ‘dissidents’ and their alternative analysis. By supposedly threatening the ‘revered’ Sinn Fein leaders, the ‘dissidents’ are placed beyond the pale in the eyes of many who might otherwise have some sympathy with their position regarding the police. These means that attendance at ‘dissident’ meetings, etc. can be kept down, and so the use and manipulation of these ‘threats’ is of great political benefit to Sinn Fein. Outside ‘threats’ are always a good cynical way of promoting unity and silencing dissent…witness the use of the IRA bogeyman within unionism down through the years for the same purpose…

  • SDLP-supporter

    Now he knows how the SDLP felt. What goes around comes around.


  • Maitiú Ó Garmaile

    I wouldnt want to mess with Gerry Kelly

  • Mickhall

    I am very skeptical about these death threats, for I cannot for the life of me see why dissidents would target the SF leadership at this time, for they are well aware if any attack took place it would reflect badly on their own organizations etc.

    There is the rub of this matter, for If Mr Kelly was murdered the only beneficiaries would be SF and more so the British State. The latter has a record of not only carry out such assassinations, but also colluding with criminals/paramilitary elements when doing so. Thus it is not impossible that the UK security services have colluded with some unstable individual and encouraged them to mount an attack of the SF leadership, who knows.

    In the murky world that the intel services operate in, who gains is the first question any rational person should ask, and in this case the answer bellows back at one, the UK state and the Adamsite SF leadership. [I am sure I am not the only one to feel that Mr Kelly and co’s failure to mention the secrocrats on this issue is very revealing.]

    Far from acting in a violent manner, it is the Republican dissidents who are organizing public meetings to discuss the issue of policing; and it is SF and the SDLP who are refusing to engage with the nationalist people within public forums, where all shades of the nationalist communities political opinions are represented.

  • Yokel

    4. He bleeds like everyone else…

    5. Mickhall, I’d have to agree with you some of these threats don’t make sense. I’m sure some out there at the hard end of republicanism would want senior Sinn Fein members dead but actually seriously intending to do it is a different matter. The cops have to inform those under threat, I suppose, but that doesn’t mean its considered a very real possibility (assuming there is a threat of some kind).

    Will we have an inquiry in 20 years time with one headline from it being ‘Brits conspired with Sinn Fein leadeship to talk up dissident threats’? I suppose it is a form of collusion in a way….

  • Terry Doherty

    2 points stand out very clearly here.

    First is that SF would need to concoct threats to the leadership to discredit dissidents alternative analysis. What alternative? King Canute definitely had an alternative to flood management, but you’d hardly need to discredit it.

    Secondly, the belief that dissidents wouldn’t threaten the SF leadership or membership because they are sane and rational beings. Even by their own standards, with a record of zero,(0), nought, nada military successes after a combined operating period of 29 years, you’d be forgiven for wondering how people view them in this light.

    And if you examine the language used by the dissidents, traitors, sell outs, treason etc it only takes one off day for their handlers to let the nuts out.

  • kadenza

    Undoubtedly in the theology of Irish republicanism it would be straightforward enough to legitimise Kelly as a target.

    So he probably is. Dissedentism has not developed a coherent political or military response or alternative to a peace process, or indeed a political/military response, and therefore if we accept that there must exist within the C/RIRA volunteers as motivated and comfortable with the use of political violence as their Provo predecessors, then frankly it is only a matter of time before some group has a pop at a senior shinner. it is almost historically inevitable.

    The only surprise here is that anyone is surprised.

    From a dissident POV which I think they are more concerned, at the moment, with being “correct” than victorious, sometime soon would be the opportune time to attack the shinners on the basis that they can claim the title of purity that seems to be the short term goal of the various different groups circulating on the fringes at the moment.

  • seabhac siúlach

    “First is that SF would need to concoct threats to the leadership to discredit dissidents alternative analysis. What alternative?”

    There is always an alternative…just perhaps not a very pleasant or advisable one…

    …to my mind what is taking place within republicanism is similar to the treaty debates of 1921/1922 that led to the Irish civil war. The discussion on policing now is largely a debate on a matter of principle and symbolism as was the discussion of the oath of allegiance in 1921 (the principle cause of the civil war). Instead of an oath this time, we have, in 2006, the required acceptance of British law and ‘justice’ in the six counties. To accept policing, much as accepting the oath of allegiance in the 1920s, entails a turning away from the essential idea of republicanism, the breaking of the link with England, in return for the ‘stepping stone’ to the republic approach first advocated by Collins and now by Provo Sinn Fein. In itself this idea of stepping stones to the republic is fallacious, as the republic that the PIRA were killing and dying for all these years was supposedly already in (de jure) existence since 1916/1918 and it was from this that they had their mandate to carry out their activities. To symbolically accept the PSNI now, to conform to the stepping stone idea of Irish unity (shown to have been a false promise in 1921), is obviously worrying for many former/present members of the Provos as it essentially delegitimises the actions they were involved in for the last 40 odd years. In short, to symbolically accept the primacy of British law in the six counties is to accept also that the actions of the Provos during the last 40 years were criminal. It is not hard to see that this is troubling for many who tool lives under the impression that they were doing so with some form of (perhaps unreasonable) legitimacy.

  • GPJ

    The leadership of Sinn Fein represent a significant propotion of the Irish population, one that has accepted that British mis-rule on this island can now be reversed through the political process.

    As Che said, never take any action which will make your enemy stronger, politically or militarily…who will gain from Gerry Kelly being assasinated?

    Not Irish republicanism.

  • kadenza

    seabhac siúlach, I would feel that the problem is not that the present course may criminalise the provo campaign, i think that is taking it too far, the problem is that it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to cohernetly argue for its purpose, post mid 70’s.

  • What goes around comes around

    So true! Now this Shinner gets a taste of his own treasonous medicine!

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    I have to say that I am also very sceptical about these threats. In order for a threat to be believable there has to be a real possibility and more importantly the capability that the threat can be carried through.

    As I see it there appears to be a cosy relationship between the so called dissidents and the so called security services. As long as no members of those said forces are killed then it appears those same forces will not be too drastic in their pursuit of the so called dissidents.

    For eg since the creation of the Contras in 1987 not one single crown force member has fallen to this crack army. The Cokes fare little better though they have been in the field for less than a decade.

    They can of course be of use at times of heightened political debate and negotiation. A bomb attack here, a shoe shop burned down there. Was it really a coincidence that their threat against anti social elements was delayed until the eve of the ST Andrews talks.

    No I think Gerry et al can sleep safely in their beds at night as not too many off these people would be prepared to venture off their bar stools.

    The only alternative to the SF poltical analysis, from a republican point of view, is to ignore the present situation until the Brits leave Ireland. Just how the 32sm, RSF and IRSP plan to bring that about is anyones guess. Because as can be seen quite evidently from their presence on the streets of nationalists areas (well those areas where they have a presence) they are doing very little by way of political activity.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    I wonder how it feels for Kelly to be at the receiving end of a death threat after issuing plenty of them during his reign in the upper echelons of the Provies’ 3rd Battalion in Ardoyne…perhaps the notion of karma isn’t so fantastically unbelievable after all!

  • Mickhall

    seabhac siúlach

    I agree with your analysis on some points, but you are mistaken when you claim this issue is about accepting the PSNI, it is not, what is being demanded of SF is something completely different and it is that they take “responsibility” for the police, which is something completely different and is the reason so many republicans and others are either against it, or feel extremely uncomfortable with it, no matter who they give there allegiance to.


    I am saddened by your statement that there is a cosy relationship between the British security services and the dissident for you know it to be rubbish. If you are saying that the UK security services have informers within dissident organizations like RSF and 32 county etc, then this is in all probability correct, just as they have had in the past, and in all probability still have informers in SF, included within its top leadership, talk about glass houses Pat.

    Your use of the word “cosy” was designed to smear all those republicans who oppose the Adamsites as working in tandem with UK intel and their political masters, which you know is a lie. Whilst I could go on here, I do not believe anyone should be accused of informing without hard evidence, although as a reminder to you, I will mention the names Donaldson and Scappiticci, now what department did the latter head?

    What I am saying is no radical organization is immune to such State infiltration and for you to suggest that the dissidents are any more infiltrated than SF is with respect infantile and will not help us understand this difficult problem any better.


    Non SF republicans have a clear policy on policing in the north, it is not to take responsibility for a UK police force, it could not be clearer. Beyond that many republican ‘dissidents’ have well thought out ideas about how policing in the north could be developed and I have to say, dissent republicans like Tommy McKearney and Anthony McIntryre, amongst others, have thought this thing through a dam site more than Gerry Kelly appears to have. Whose only idea about policing nationalist communities seems to be either let the British do it, or ask the boys to take ill disciplined youngsters who cause a nuisance round the back and beat the shit out of them or blast their knee caps off. Christ I do not know how the shinners can accuse others of not having an alternative when what they themselves offer is so little.

  • Siobhan

    Is anybody seriously believing this???

    Time for Sinn Fein to quit the publicity stunts and get down to the business of making policing work. Surely by now even the most dim witted Sinn Fein hack realised that this is inevitable.

  • realist

    Christ, I do not know how the shinners can accuse others of not having an alternative when what they themselves have to offer is so little.

    How true Mick Hall, though your regurgitation of AM sometimes gets a little old.

  • Joe

    Lets get real here. So Far by my reckoning SF/IRA have killed at least two dissidents including Joseph O’Connor


    SF are just at their usual self pitying propganda.People are growing tired of it.

  • Mickhall

    How true Mick Hall, though your regurgitation of AM sometimes gets a little old.

    Posted by realist

    Ahh, that really hurt, they say the old ones are the best, we all have to get our ideas from somewhere, in your case you seem to have got your line from the shinners, who first made the claim that you have repeated above some years ago.

    Still, it is not often one receives a complement which is followed with such a swift kick in the balls.

    Best regards.

  • I believe the threats to be bollocks, and if Sinn Fein don’t stop creating these alleged threats then Dissident Republicans will issue threats of a real nature.

    Now that would really confuse everyone, Dissident Republicans threaten the lives of senior Sinn Fein members for issuing bollocks alleged Dissident Republican threats.

  • This is getting beyond a joke! I would imagine that Mr Orde and his officers would have checked out these threats so why can’t they say where they are coming from.

    Obviously Psf and the RUC are working together on this in order to 1) bolster Psf’s position as a republican party, 2) Stem the haemorrhage of support from Psf to Republican groups 3) Ease the way for the more overt cooperation that Psf MUST engage in when they join with the RUC.

    It is strange that these ‘threats’ are coming now when Psf are running into trouble with their support of partition.

    It is also a good platform for anti-Republican/pro-Provisional Sinn Féin enthusiasts as we can see from the posts like Pat Mc Larnon’s.

  • time will tell

    Pat McLarnon,

    You were very impressive at listing the failings of the military minded republicans as opposed to the Sinn Fein nationalist politics, and you are so confident that they en-mass militarily are beneath what you expect.

    So tell us all Pat…. what did you do in the war?

  • ingram


    Choppy waters ahead me thinks.


  • BeardyBoy

    Terrible situation – brother agin brother – As a non-republican I have no great joy in seeing this – it is the result of putting country before God however

  • The leadership of Sinn Fein represent a significant propotion of the Irish population..

    It is this kind of SF spin which only serves to discredit the death claims. It is disengenuous to suggest or imply that they ae alone in representing a significant proprtion of the Irish population. SF represent a minority of the Irish population, North and South combined.

  • Time will tell

    Pat McLarnon….

    Well I am still waiting for an answer