Riot on Boucher Road

Cliftonville fans went on the rampage on the Boucher Road yesterday afternoon. This is the second serious incident of trouble so far this season, there were clashes between Cliftonville fans, Linfield fans and Village residents in September. It also seems a season cannot go by without at least one serious clash for example disturbances at a Linfield v Glentoran game. The FA would fine such clubs heavily but the financial precariousness of many clubs makes the IFA reluctant to do this, what can be done to prevent further trouble?

  • aquifer

    Take league points off them?

  • jimhancot

    Problem is, most of those who were causing the trouble were most likely hangers-on, who saw the Reds trip to Windsor as a good excuse to go for some Prods in the Village:

    http://www.irishleagueforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76617

    And can you dock points for incidents involving fans outside of grounds? Dodgy legal ground there. I wouldn’t have thought so.

    The IFA have an interesting ‘names and addresses’ scheme for all those buying tickets for all-ticket games to foresee the punishment of future offenders within stadia, and if any of the arrested troublemakers are found to be season-ticket holders or regulars, they could be banned from their club. But to punish the clubs for yesterday is unworkable and targeting the wrong culprits, IMO.

  • miss fitz

    I cant answer the ‘what can be done’ question, but I can tell you about the impact of this. I was on my way to B&Q when the rioting apparently started, and the police immediately swung into action. The Boucher Road was shut from the Donegall Pass entry and the motorway was down to one lane of traffic. I finally got off (30 mintues later) on Stockmans Lane, and onto the Boucher Road. The staff I spoke to in B&Q said they had been literally terrified as dozens of youths swarmed up and started throwing bricks and missiles at the windows. The doors were closed and staff were unclear as to when they would be able to leave.

    I would take the stand that this is unacceptable behaviour in a civilised society. I should be able to go to a store on a Saturday aftenoon without having my freedom of movement curtailed by thugs.

    Whoever owns the problem needs to stop pussyfooting and deal with it. What happened in GB to reduce the level of football hooliganism? Are there lessons to be learned?

    As we attempt to create a normalised society, anti social behavior of this nature is not tolerable

  • GavBelfast

    What could a small, financially precarious club like Cliftonville really do about hangers-on causing trouble on the Boucher Road? And would penalties stop hangers-on who aren’t interested in the fotball or the reputation of the club from thuggishness?

    They were hardly regulars – they have been known to get less than 300 at home games for goodness sake.

  • joeCanuck

    I remember a spoof panel discussion on this type of behaviour on BBC over 30 years ago (That was the week that was?).
    The psycholgogist on the panel said that we shouldn’t blame these young people because the problem was a physiologiacal one. She said that they had too much testosterone and that the best solution would be simply to cut their goolies off.

  • miss fitz

    Joe
    What an eminently sensible suggestion! 🙂

    See when I was stuck last night, not knowing what the h** was going on, I would have volunteered to do the surgery myself.

  • GavBelfast

    But, Joe, what if the rioters were all women already?

    😉

  • Doctor Who

    Miss Fitz

    “Whoever owns the problem needs to stop pussyfooting and deal with it. What happened in GB to reduce the level of football hooliganism? Are there lessons to be learned?

    As we attempt to create a normalised society, anti social behavior of this nature is not tolerable ”

    The problem is these things now happen outside the grounds. On mainland UK the Police worked with the clubs and Football Asociations to practically eradicate trouble from inside the grounds.

    New stadia also contributed to a safe envoirment for spectators.

    Outside the grounds in England, Police monitor groups of supporters by a sophisticated network of CCTV and at times can pre-empt any serious conflict. Perhaps you would like “Big Brother” to be watching us more closely.

    The trouble yesterday was sectarian, a bunch of republican foot soldiers using football as an excuse to knock a few prodie heads in the village. Cliftonville football club have always come out against these hooligans but can do nothing to stop these people from following them to away games. Limiting ticket numbers is not fair as there would naturally be a bigger demand for Cup Final tickets at Windsor Park.

    I do think Sinn Fein could act on this, by demanding theses people who act in their name decease from this “anti social behaviour” as you call it.

    Football has nothing to do with this, it is old fashoined sectarianism that is always going to be the shackles of this society.

    Joe Cannuck

    The sketch you refer to was from “Not The Nine O´Clock News”. A great solution none the less.

  • miss fitz

    Who

    I am not disputing your version of events, but the first hand version of events that I heard when I arrived in B&Q was very clearly about gangs of youths coming up the Boucher Road and throwing missiles at shops. I further understand that the police directly came under attack from the rioters.

    I have heard nothing so far about this having been sectarian. Indeed I was speaking to several police officers yesterday evening and no one mentioned a sectarian element.

    Again, not disputing, just surprised and wondering where your info came from?

  • harold

    Violence has been a fairly regular occurance over the years at football here.

    The difference with this incident is that it took place outside, rather than inside the ground.

    I doubt that it will have the same impact as some of the more recent events of violence like loyalist lvf paramilitaries fighting with knives during the Game At Windsor or the mass riot at the Oval.

    While it is totally deplorable, most sports fans don’t follow Irish league football so it only reflects badly on the hooligan support among these teams

  • Rubicon

    Don’t the PSNI have water-cannon? Not the best time of year to be out in the cold soaking wet – and Miss Fitz might have got her car washed! 😉

  • Doctor Who

    Miss Fitz

    “Again, not disputing, just surprised and wondering where your info came from? ”

    Perhaps if you took your head from the sand.

    Cliftonville have a small following, some home games attract crowds of less than 100.

    Whenever they go to a ground with a sizeable Protestant support, i.e. Windsor Park or the Oval, in recent years also Mourneview Park or Shamrock Park, their own suppport swells and attracts the violent republican element.

    This has very little to do with football and if football wasn´t there they would attach themselves to something else.

    So pray tell me is it coincidental that the rioters where exclusively Republican, shouting IRA slogans at Police, waiving republican banners and doing their best to cause destruction in a Unionist area of Belfast.

  • McGrath

    No doubt the police will get around to identifying a few of them, with the most egregious offender being sentenced to 4 consecutive life sentences, with a recommendation that a minimum of 1.5 hours of community service be served.

  • bruno

    Perhaps if it had been played on a sunday it might have been easier to police the crowd.i.e less traffic, shoppers etc..

  • willowfield

    Very disappointing that thugs have spoiled a sporting occasion.

    This incident demonstrates again the urgent need for Provisional SF to show some leadership to their community and immediately and unequivocally to support policing.

  • Doctor Who

    Bruno

    Couldn´t agree more, Sunday football is palyed everywhere in Europe aprt from Northern Ireland.

    The majority within the IFA want Sunday football but they need a 75% majotity to make that decision, at the last vote they just fell short.

    It inded could have been swayed had the PSNI published recommendations for such a change.

  • GavBelfast

    I’m all for the option of Sunday football, but I think the mention of it is a bit of a diversion on this occasion.

    The fault lies with the culprits – that’s it.

  • paco

    When did the Boucher Road become unionist, Dr Who?

    Earlier you said that the rioters attacked protestants in the Village area but when challenged, you could not substantiate this-the reason why was because it was wishful thinking on your part.

    Having stood at Windsor, when the UFF threw blast bombs at men, women and children supporting Cliftonville, I know that there are two sides to every story.

    I personally would never go to an Irish League game again and I certainly feel I made the right decision.
    Yesterday’s game was a lifeless and insipid affair compared to the barn-storming FAI Cup Final today-Well done to Derry City and commiserations to St. Pats who played their part in a seven goal thriller.

  • mcgrath

    Perhaps if you took your head from the sand.

    Cliftonville have a small following, some home games attract crowds of less than 100.
    Doctor Who:

    Whenever they go to a ground with a sizeable Protestant support, i.e. Windsor Park or the Oval, in recent years also Mourneview Park or Shamrock Park, their own suppport swells and attracts the violent republican element.

    This has very little to do with football and if football wasn´t there they would attach themselves to something else.

    Violent republican element? Come on Dr Who, do you really thing this demographic has a political motive? They are just thugs, that’s all. If they could get away with it, they would kick the shit out of Gerry Adams just as quick as anyone else.

    They are exactly the same type as the thugs who are often labeled as “violent loyalist element”.

    Take the celtic / rangers shirts off them and you couldn’t tell them apart.

  • Doctor Who

    Paco

    Perhaps you hadn´t realised that the Boucher Road runs very close to the village.

    Yes I remember the icident on the Kop when Cliftonville fans where attaked by a blast bomb exploding in Midgely Park. The irony of course was that the Cliftonville supporters cheered thinking it was a provo attack nearby.

    What matches you choose to go to are your business and I don´t see why you engage in this juvenile whataboutery. The fact remains these rioters where republicans, the very same who riot at the site of a protestant face in their or nearby neighbourhoods.

    Mcgrath

    If this was Union Flag waving Rangers top wearing “football fans” rioting after a Lifield V Donegal Celtic match at the Park Centre, would your opinion change.

  • paco

    ‘Perhaps you hadn´t realised that the Boucher Road runs very close to the village’.

    i.e. very close to but not actually in the Village’

    Thanks for proving my point, Dr.

  • TTt

    Sorry DR Who,but the blast bomb landed in Windsor park at the steps leading up to the old Kop,a few yards from were Cliftonville supporters were standing.Not in Midgely park as you are telling people.
    I was at the game and i never heard anyone cheer when it went off.
    I just saw people diving for cover and moving away from that area.

  • paco

    Dr.Who will try to re-write history in relation to the UFF mass murder attempt on Cliftonville fans and wearing his other hat, he will then scratch his head in puzzlement and disappointment wondering why nationalists do not go to Windsor to sit beside him watching Northern Ireland.
    Dr. prides himself on being in the vanguard of the new non-sectarian,inclusive NI fans but doesn’t mind down-playing terrorist attacks on football fans.

    Keep digging, Dr….

  • Doctor Who

    Well it took about twenty posts to get there but Paco and Ttt (probably the same person) did it.

    Republican hooligans go on the rampage in the village and boucher road and who is to blame but Northern Ireland supporters of course.

    No Nationalists don´t come to Windsor Park in their droves to watch a non partisan Northern Ireland team made up of all denominations from all six counties. But hey if it´s a match against a pile of huns and the chance of a riot,well there straight for the hotbed evil sectarian den of iniquity Windsor Park.

    Attempted mass murder, really guys do you have a folk song penned by the Wolf Tonnes for that one.

    And by the way the idiots did cheer…as it was not uncommon for republican mass murderers to leave bombs at or near Windsor Park on the build up to matches.

    I remember one particular car bomb explosion a few hours before a match aginst England designed to have the match called off, it was of course played.

    As I said earlier the board and true supporters of Cliftonville FC would rather their team was not associated with this sort of scum.

  • free bird

    ‘Attempted mass murder, really guys do you have a folk song penned by the Wolf Tonnes for that one. ‘

    Dr. you really are confirming yourself as the worst class of a sectarian b*got who condones terrorist attacks on innocent nationalist football fans.

    Your derisory remarks again reinforces the fact that nationalists are not welcome at Windsor to the point where bombs are thrown yet you make light of this by insulting intended nationalist victims of bomb attacks by loyalists scum.

    Irish Leagues ganes or NI International games?
    It is apparent that you do not want a catholic about the place.

    Hang your head in shame

  • Doctor Who

    Free Bird

    Try as your name suggests to rid yourself of the self depreciating, cliched mopery bullshit that you spout.

    Your last post was a scandalous waste of enrgy.

  • fair_deal

    Paco

    They attacked property in the Village during the trouble in September

  • free bird

    Dr.,
    Your failure to address my point of your scandalous condoning of a terrorist bomb atack on catholic football fans confirms that you are a b*got of the highest order.

    Thank you for proving the point that the myth of self- proclaimed progresive and inclusive NI fans is exactly that-nothing more than a myth.

  • Doctor Who

    Free Bird

    No where in my posts am I atempting to condone terrorism. I am pointing out that on a thread concerning the antics for the second time in three months of republican hooligans, that we end up with a load of wahtabotery and cliched bullshit from the likes of yourself.

    It does not worry me if you think Windsor Park is a no go area for Nationalists, when yesterday in clearly showed this to be different depending of course on the conditions.

    Instead of you engaging in this juvenile mopery perhaps you could lobby your political representatives to speak out against these hooligans who are giving Cliftonville FC (the oldest club in Ireland) a bad name.

    Now your attempt to brandish me a terrorist should be retracted by yourself or you should be red carded.

  • againstthehead

    free bird wrote

    Your derisory remarks again reinforces the fact that nationalists are not welcome at Windsor to the point where bombs are thrown yet you make light of this by insulting intended nationalist victims of bomb attacks by loyalists unpleasant.

    are u infact insane free bird?? who exactly attacked the cliftonville fans on saturday?? hmm nobody…. less of the whataboutery and hold ur head in shame!!

  • free bird

    It is clear that Dr. Who represents a substantial viewpoint that nationalist fans are not welcome in the Irish League-to the point that blast bombs attacks by terrorists are a source of amusement to Dr. and his ilk.

    This being the case, let Cliftonville, Newry City and the DC move to the FAI League where at least attempted mass murder on fans might not be seen as a source of amusement.

  • Doctor Who

    Free Bird

    It is your petty juvenile mopery that I find amusing, not attacks on football fans.

    Please retract or show the evidence.

    Now you claim to be a spokesperson for Newry City, Cliftonville and Donegal Celtic.

    Tell me Free Bird when did they apply to the League Of Ireland….if you cannot answer I suggest you go back into your cage and tweep to yourself.

  • dalek

    Perhaps Linfield manager Davey Jeffries could suggest an alternative route into the the loyalist stronghold that surrounds windsor park.

    As a senior member of the orange order in Newtownabbey, Mr Jeffries sees no issue about marching through Nationalist communities in the Glengormley area every summer so perhaps he should suggest that cliftonville supporters should be allowed to march through the village area, and take a detour onto the Donegall Road and exit the area via Roden Street when leaving Windsor ???

    It could be a new traditional route !!!

  • Doctor Who

    Dalek (well for this post)

    The thread is not about Jeffries being an Orange man or in fact no one is saying that Cliftonville “supporters” should not be welcome at Windsor Park.

    The problem was for the second time in three months a bunch of Republican hooligans used a football match to run riot.

    Not if that confuses you maybe you should self destruct.

  • free bird

    If you were not such an idiot, Dr. you will see that I suggested that these clubs should consider applying for membership of the Eircom FAI League.

    Contrary to your last post, the thread should in fact be about everything that makes Irish League Football a coldhouse for nationaists including the very dubious loyalist connrctions of a senior IFL Figure at yesterday’s presentation.

    Football For All? My arse.. anyone got a whiskey-If not, Jamesons will do instead,,

  • Doctor Who

    Free Bird

    Perhaps you should clarify what you mean, you say that Irish football is a coldhouse for Catholics and then object to a Protestant being at yesterdays presentation.

    1. Who are talking about.
    2. What dubious loyalist connections

    Answer and confirm that you are the idiot.

  • dalek

    The northern league self destructed a long time ago.

    Crumbling grounds, tiny crowds, protestant fundamentalists running the league (sunday football), A chairman with a dodgy past (Jameson) & an association unable to leave their unionist politics out of football.

  • Doctor Who

    Dalek

    “The northern league self destructed a long time ago.”

    A completely different argument and one that I agree with but for varying reasons.

    Protestant fundamentalists running footabll. As i stated earlier 75% majority was needed to secure Sunday football, the result was just a few per cent short. This still does not indicate that all those against Sunday football are Protestant fundamentalists.

    Changes proposed are a samller top tear league with qualification being SUITABLE STADIA…Mourenview Park for example is far superior to most of the cow fields in the Eircom league.
    Chairman with a dodgy past..come on don´t beat about the bush (no pun intended) say what you mean.

    An association unable to leave their Unionist politics out of football…more hot air sweeping statements dalek…and i´m still not sure what it´s got to do with republicans going on the rampàge yesterday.

  • dalek

    “Mourenview Park for example is far superior to most of the cow fields in the Eircom league”

    the point being that the ‘cow fields’ social clubs are not controlled by loyalist paramilitaries.

    I suggest you look into the loyalist paramilitary usage of the Glenavon ammenities before talking about sport.

    And then question why a former director of Glenavon’s near neighbour’s Portadown was a recognised loyalist paramilitary and the clear connection between Portadown football club and the uvf ???

  • Doctor Who

    Fair deal

    I think you may have to look at the ridiculous and most likely libelous previous post by Dalek.

  • Doctor Who

    Dalek

    For the record the ground improvements at Mourneview Park where overseen by Adrain Teer the then Glenavon chairman. A man of great vision who wanted to pull Irish League football from the doldrums…a man who also happened to be as an accident of birth a Catholic, to most people at Glenavon that meant nothing.

    Now for you to sit with the comfort of anonymity, between looking up images of Britney Spears, and make disgusting accusations without any foundation whatsoever, threatens the very existence of these forums.

    Behave yourself.

  • real life

    Miss Fitz, your inability to see the sectatarianism in hundreds of republican hooligans running amok in that area demonstrates that you are a naive simpleton. Again.

  • Topcat

    TTf lied when he said

    I was at the game and i never heard anyone cheer when it went off. I just saw people diving for cover and moving away from that area.

    The grenades landed at the bottom of the steps to the Kop (those steps not used by the Cliftonville fans). From the South Stand I saw nobody dive for cover, it wasn’t near anybody, and a cheer did go up from the Cliftonville support as, due to the acoustics, it was thought a bomb had exploded across the M1.

    Interestingly it was only discovered what the souce of the bang was when the UFF ‘claimed’ it the next day.

    Still why let the myth get in way of the truth.

  • mcgrath

    Unleash the Sjambok and spare it not least against the detractors in this thread.

  • Realist

    “nationalist fans are not welcome in the Irish League”

    Wrong.

    Those who engage in wanton acts of hooliganism – apart from the riot,numerous seats in the South Stand were also damaged on Saturday and some one day wonder “fans” thought it nice to urinate over seats too – are not to be welcomed, be they unionist, nationalist, republican, loyalist, Protestant, Catholic or none of the above.

    In addition, Northern Ireland manager, Lawrie Sanchez (not sure what religion he is, but I’m pretty sure he’s not an Orangeman) was subjected to a torrent of sectarian and threatening abuse from so called Cliftonville fans, housed in the South Stand. Lawrie was in the Directors Box.

    “Linfield manager Davey Jeffries”

    Have they changed manager recently?

    “let Cliftonville, Newry City and the DC move to the FAI League”

    A league in which organised hooliganism is on the increase.

    A number of Shamrock Rovers fans (notorious for trouble) travelled to Belfast on Saturday hoping for such “action”. Seems they weren’t disappointed.

  • miss fitz

    Real Life
    In response to your cogent and well thought out argument that I am naieve and a simpleton, let me take you back to my original point, indeed one of the points I have been making for as long as I have been contributing to slugger.

    Thuggery and vandalism disrupts the normal traffic of society and should not be tolerated. Having experienced many societies, I have listened in many places to the apologia of some who find all sorts of excuses for refusing to abide by the rule of law.

    Maybe you dont get this, but I dont give a hoot whether the rioters were catholic, protestant or dissenter. They acted in an unlwaful manner, caused damage to persons and property and sustained an attack on the police service of our land.

    My view is simply that we need to have zero tolerance for this behaviour, regardless of the source. The other posters who suggest that organised groups should ‘control’ these thugs is risible. People should have a sense of responsibility, both personal and social. If they cannot conduct themselves they should be arrested, face a court and be punished with a fine or imprisonment.

    If we pussyfoot forever around the delicate sensitivities of whose paramilitary group is involved and how it should be handled, ultimately we all lose.

    I have never demurred in my support for the rule of law, and maintain that if nationalists want to change the system they need to do it from within.

  • kloot

    Rugby is a better game anyway!!!

    Soccer just attracts the wrong crowd across the world. Its frequently hijacked and used by organisations for their own purposes.

    When was the last time you saw rugby fans, cricket fans or volley ball fans engaging in such activities.

  • Fair Deal

    Contributors to this thread are reminded of the sites

    Commenting Policy

    Also they are reminded of the ball not man rule.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Although not on the scale of football hooliganism, crowd trouble is be coming a real issue in cricket. Far from the gentile world of cricket in the British and Irish Isles, a game of village greens and breaks for tea, cricket in other parts of the world is much more a game of the people and as such arouses passions that leads to mob violence. As yet no ‘casuals’ culture, or umpteen books from ex-cricket hooligans about the good ole days having a rumble in your best Fred Perrys, but it is fair to say that violence is on the rise.

    Even in England, during the 2001 Natwest series among England, Australia and Pakistan, incidents included Michael Bevan being struck on the face by a beer can and a Headingley steward sustaining broken ribs during a crowd invasion. But the rest of the cricket-playing world is also suffering a growth in violence:

    In India…
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/4890448.stm

    http://www.voanews.com/bangla/archive/2005-04/2005-04-17-voa8.cfm

    In Pakistan…
    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/story/239766.html

    In New Zealand…
    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/story/144697.html

  • Kloot

    The Worlds Gone Mad

    I stand corrected! Cheers 🙂

    I still think though that the atmosphere at a game of Rugby is the complete opposite to that at any football game. Just look or even listen at the difference between crowd reaction when a penalty is being take in either game.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Kloot – not just off the pitch. Look at the reaction by players to referee decisions. In rugby any backchat to the referee is punished by an additional 10 yards. In football, arguing with the referee is now almost mandatory and there is something really unsavoury about a bunch of highly paid millionaires screaming at a ref that he’s a f***ing cheat. A stand-out image for me is the sight of Roy Keane, veins in is head bulging, and the rest of his Man Utd cohorts chasing a ref (I think it was Andy Durso) around the pitch to dispute a decision. There is such little respect for the rule of law in football these days, from arguing with the referee to diving, shirt-pulling, trying to get other players booked. Football has lost all self-respect.

    And of course what happens in the Premiership and on television is played out in parks and amateur leagues up and down the country. Who on earth would want to be a referee…

  • darth rumsfeld

    “I was at the game and i never heard anyone cheer when it went off. ”

    So was I, and I also have it on tape- the cheer is, and was, quite clear. Dr Who is quite right. Perhaps the blast affected TTt’s hearing, or memory, or perhaps…he wasn’t really there.

    BTW, I am sure, that in the interests of consistency those people who say the Boucher road goes past and not through the Village, will say the same about..oh,I dunno,the Garvaghy Road in Portadown perhaps. And obviously I agree that Cliftonville cannot be held responsible for the actions of these thugs- any more than the Orange Order can be held liable for the actions of criminal hangers on at Whiterock etc etc.

  • paco

    lovely stuff Darth.

    ‘Garvaghy Road, Orange Order, Whiterock Parade’

    and the small matter of making light of a mass murder attempt on his fellow supporters-i.e ‘perhaps’the blast affected TTt’s hearing’

    All in a day’s work for your new, ahiny, non-political Northern Ireland football fan.

  • roger

    “any more than the Orange Order can be held liable for the actions of criminal hangers on at Whiterock etc etc.”

    Darth, be serious man.

    The orange order supported the paramilitary shootings & bombings during the Whiterock riots.

    Senior Belfast orangemen made the following statements during the 6 day rampage of violence when questioned about the order’s association with the uvf & uff.

    Deputy Grand Master of Belfast, Bro McMordie said “They are on our side (uvf/uda) and continue to defend the orange order”

    Senior Belfast orangeman Billy Mawhinney said that the uvf & uda were an integral part of the unionist commuinity and are the protectors of the protestant people.

    Dawson Baillie, when questiones about the continued participation of orange lodges in the commemoration of uvf sectarian killer Brian Robinson said “The Orange Order is a very broad church and its not my responsibility to say to people they can?t be members of various organisations,??

    Your above statement is a bit like the Cliftonville chairman saying that he supported the actions of the hooligans on saturday, claiming that they were on the reds side & were important to the club…and then trying to wash his hands of the situation.

    Get real.

  • Realist

    Credit to Cliftonville official, Mr Gerard Lawlor, who stood up to some of the bigots within the one day wonder, hangers on “supporting” Cliftonville on Saturday.

    I’m quite sure that the vast majority of genuine Cliftonville fans, who watch their favourites every week, would dearly wish for these hangers on to stay away and stop dragging the name of a great old club into the headlines for the wrong reasons.

    I understand that the club has had some problems with a gang of teenage “schooligans”, calling themselves the IBA (I’d Buck Anything) *frown* frequenting games in recent months.

    Hopefully, they will soon learn that they will find no welcome for their “antics” at Cliftonville Football Club in particular and the Irish League in general.

  • paco

    ‘IBA (I’d Buck Anything) *frown* frequenting games in recent months.’

    You dirty old man, Mac/Realist

  • Doctor Who

    Paco

    http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/bombsatwindsor.html

    Have a look at these headlines, or perhaps you can even look up the death threat issued to George Best by republican freedom fighters in 1971.

    Again no one is making fun of Cliftonville fans ironically cheering the sound of a blast bomb in Midgely Park, I´m just bewildered as to why you and the hangers on on Saturday wish to see the demise of Irelands oldest club.

  • Realist

    “You dirty old man, Mac/Realist”

    Eh????

  • Realist

    “All in a day’s work for your new, ahiny, non-political Northern Ireland football fan”

    paco,

    Who ever said football fans in Northern Ireland were non political?

    I take it you live in Northern Ireland and are a football fan.

    Clearly you are “political” – hence your statement above seems rather stupid and pointless.

    Or, did you have a point?

  • Donnacha

    Well as a former hooligan myself, I can tell yout hat the sectarian/religious angle is most likely used as an excuse to get involved in a running punch up with whoever happens to be about. I take no pride in my former activities, but I do know that I didn’t give a shit who was in front of me, they were going to get a kicking, be they black, white, catholic, protestant, whatever. It has little to do with politics or religion and everything to do with a strange, nihilistic joy of destruction, of belonging to a pack and of getting into a massive ruck and getting away afterwards, surging off on adrenaline.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “All in a day’s work for your new, ahiny, non-political Northern Ireland football fan.

    Posted by paco on Dec 04, 2006 @ 08:50 PM”

    No.All in a day’s work for a seeker of truth and justice to expose the dishonesty of a classic MOPEist. Honestly, you Shinners think that if you repeat the fables often enough that makes them true. Well it doesn’t, and if it means having to waste valuable sleeping time to catch you out, so be it.

    “The orange order supported the paramilitary shootings & bombings during the Whiterock riots.”

    That would be by the famous attempt at condemning the violence (OK, I know Dawson said “condone”, but even you know he didn’t mean it). And still noone can find a reason for distinguishing the Garvaghy Road from the Boucher Road vis a vis community ownership.

  • Realist

    It looks like the thuggery and vandalism wasn’t confined to the Boucher Road post match.

    The South Stand

    Approximately 60 seats broken and damaged and some nice stickers of Basque flags with men carrying Kalashnikovs and wearing balaclavas on them.

    A lot of empty alcohol tins and bottles about the place, inspite of Eventsec supposedly doing a search for bottles etc on the way in.

    Kop Stand

    Approximately 40 seats broken and damaged, some are buckled and pulled away from the concrete below (the metalwork has given way), in the main gents toilets the toilet partitions and doors have been kicked in and left in a heap.
    Again lots of tins and bottles around.

    I hope the damage is repaired in time for next Wednesday’s CAS Semi Final fixture between, er, Cliftonville and Glentoran at the same venue.

  • Valenciano

    Doubtless apart from the sectarian angle, much of the violence was alcohol fuelled as usual so one solution would be to have lunch time kick offs for such key games. Obviously it wouldn’t totally solve the problem as some people head along purely for a scrap anyway but it would hopefully lead to more calmer heads.

  • Doctor Who

    The Sunday Life reported that sections of Cliftonville supporters in the South Stand shouted expletives at Northern Ireland boss Lawrie Sanchez.

    “YOU DIRTY ORANGE BASTARD”, “STICK YOUR GREEN AND WHITE ARMY UP YER…” AND “BURN, BURN….YA ORANGE….”

    Expletives???

    Downright sectarian abuse…no doubt if Steve Staunton had of been there with Glen´s or blues fans´s singing Ya Fenian!!! the media would have taken a different angle.

    To be fair Cliftonville directors and stewards where disgusted, with Gerald Lawlor challenging one set of supporters who where making disgusting reference to the Northern Ireland managers late wife.

    Nationalists have been right all along on these threads when they say that Windsor Park is a sectarian den of *bigotry*, it is,but only when so called Cliftonville fans visit.

  • Realist

    Cliftonville Football Club issue statement:

    “The Management Committee of Cliftonville Football Club is delighted with the team’s progress on the pitch this season and the increase in the club’s support off it. We are proud of and appreciate the work that our many decent fans have done in recent years to improve the atmosphere at games and make supporting the Reds an enjoyable experience for everyone.

    We are therefore very disappointed by the actions of a small minority of trouble-makers during and after matches in recent weeks. Our club and our genuine supporters want nothing to do with those responsible for the trouble on the Boucher Road after the CIS Cup Final and for the attack on Glenavon supporters’ buses. Anyone involved in such actions is not welcome at Solitude and anyone successfully identified or convicted of these incidents will be banned from the ground.

    The club is conscious of and shares our fans’ concerns over some aspects of the external stewarding and policing before, during and after the CIS Cup Final and we are pursuing these issues with the relevant authorities in order to try to prevent any reoccurrence.

    The club is also aware of the new IFA policy on semi-finals, finals and ‘high risk’ games. If we are as successful as we hope to be then there will inevitably be an increase in games for which our fans will require tickets. The Management Committee will at all times do its best to ensure that any rules are applied reasonably, consistently and in an even-handed manner.”

  • Dr Strangelove

    So then Darth, would the residents of the Village be happy to see a Catholic organisation marching down Boucher Road, while having police landrovers confine them to their streets ?

  • darth rumsfeld

    probably not, but they’d have to get used to it, since it’a an arterial route. And of course they wouldn’t be penned in by police landrovers if they didn’t present a risk of preventing the parade by force. Not up to a serious standard of debating point, Dr. Surely you can do better than whataboutery

  • Dr Strangelove

    A little churlish to call the juxtaposition of the situations whataboutery… however I do admire the faith you have in the ability of the residents of the Village to show restraint, if it was ever called for.

    Whilst no one community can lay claim to a particular stretch of road, surely the demographic makeup of local communities means certain sensitivites must be taken into account when extraordinary use of that road is sought.

  • Dr Strangelove

    Be it by rioters or Orangemen, when they are not one in the same

  • Realist

    http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=718526

    Sunday Life article also features a picture of a Clifonville “fans'” Irish Republic tricolour drapped from the South Stand with PIRA written across it.

    Why was this flag not removed by the Cliftonville Stewards on duty at the game?