Junior: nowhere left to run…

At the heel of the hunt, the primary sticking point is policing, according to Ian Paisley Junior. As one of our most respected commenters, Henry 94, has put it, the difficulty for the Republican movement seems to be more psychological than political.

  • BogExile

    ‘civic depoliticised, accountable policing’ says Gerry.

    1. Civic policing would exist if it were not for the active threat from dissident republicans and Loyalist gangsters who want to police their own areas. Civic policing is anathema to urban and rural republican heartlands where power tools and accelerants are ‘due process.’ You can’t easily be part of the solution if you’re part of the problem. And you don’t want to be anyway.

    2. Depoliticised policing: Pure agit-prop. The Securocrats are all working for Securicor now. This is a convenient way to caricature any attempt to rescue green and orange ghettoes from the law of the jungle.

    3. Accountable policing. The PSNI is the most accountable police service in the world. It’s so accountable probably all the police are actually trained as accountants now. At least that’s what it feels like if you ever need the poor hide-bound fuckers in an emergency. No wonder they’ve all turned to drink. You only have to look at some of the downloadable police documents on anticipating the human rights dimensions of public order events such as the ‘Tour of The North’ to know the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. The heroic effort to be seen not to offend anybody’s sensibilities (apart from victims) the wasted acres of newsprint on ‘human rights policing’ – it’s all so tragicly funny. The only issue of accountablility is to whom or to what. The answer is people and the rule of law. The reality is accountability to spin and politics.

    Why are we waiting for Republican permission to provide the most basic of rights – the right to be protected from harm and harrasment? What warped message does it sent to police officers who should be only interested in upholding impartially the rule of law? What message to the assorted Spides and gangsters who factor in this delusion of ‘protest’ into their obnoxious activities? What message to the hundreds of thousands of ordinary people who simply want a fast, efficient and helpful response when they dial 999?

    If Hain had any balls, he’d appeal directly to the electorate on a rederendum specifically on policing. That would take the pressure off the Shinners completely!

  • Nevin

    Paramilitary ‘control’ of justice and policing in local communities would not be deemed acceptable in the rest of these two islands yet the two governments are prepared to ‘legitimise’ it here.

    The Deputy Chief Constable’s recent intervention on PCSOs comes as no great surprise to me; he’s merely facilitating a little bit of political appeasement.

    Sadly, the IMC seems to have abandoned its earlier stance on a ‘culture of lawfulness’ when it ‘endorsed’ paramilitary ‘policing’ of parades.

  • eranu

    psycho more like. honestly, it really is just silly that a party in western europe seeking office thinks its right to be against the police. Just think about it! every minute that passes that position just looks more ridiculous. its like a child on sports day taking a temper tantrum because they didnt win the egg and spoon race. everyone else has to wait around and watch the spectacle until its stopped, then everyone can get on with the games. so please, cut the drama and get on with things !


    It may be on the site elsewhere, but there was an interesting piece on this at the weekend from Bruce Arnold.

    He made the point that the DUP were spot on demanding acceptance of the police and that the SDLP should be equally clear on the subject. Anyone else see it?

  • seabhac siúlach

    “…the difficulty for the Republican movement seems to be more psychological than political.”

    How is it ‘psychological’, when acceptance of the police will entail the final acceptance (hook, line and sinker) of continued British rule in Ireland? For some, that is a very ‘political’ matter. At the heart of republicanism, I would have thought. Approval of the police, with their patrolling of the border, and maintenance of partition, is quite hard to square with the republican mantra, of ‘breaking the link with England’. It would also appear to have political consequences, with the defection of support (and supporters) to other republican groups. Support for these groups is up to a combined figure of 7.5% in the latest poll, hardly a trivial or ‘pyschological’ matter…

    From that piece:
    “Mr Adams said that Sinn Féin had “no problem” signing up to “accountable civic depoliticised policing”.”

    In my view, it is impossible to have ‘depoliticised policing’, as any policing taking place in a part of the UK will have as its aim, as well as preventing crime, the maintenance of the Union and the security of the UK state. That is the essential purpose of policing, to safeguard and implement the laws of the state. Therefore policing is politics.

    The laws of the state may define one as a criminal, for example, if one carries out ‘terrorist’ atttacks. In the years of the 25th anniversary of the hunger strikers, it is deeply ironic then that Adams et al. wish to force through acceptance of policing (based on English law) which will mean that they are now happy to enforce the criminalisation of anyone who acts outside of UK law. That is, by their likely acceptance of policing, and, thereforce their full acceptance of British law, they are, in effect, retrospectively siding with the British vis-a-vis the right to criminalise the hunger strikers and all subsequent Irish political prisioners. If you sign up to British law, are you not also signing up to the view that there are no political prisoners, merely criminals (as that law states)?
    I am not saying that I agree nor disagree with the more pragmatic approach Provo Sinn Fein are taking, merely pointing out the hypocrisy at the heart of it…and to show that it is quite clearly a political matter…

  • Henry94

    seabhac siúlach

    The agreement allows for the north to remain part of the UK until a majority vote otherwise.

    It’s not in the UK because it’s policed by the PNSI. It is policed by the PNSI because it is in the UK.

    What you are suggesting is that there can be no resolution to the policing issue short of a united Ireland. But then you should also oppose the Assembly and the executive on the same basis. fair enough if you do but the broad republican movement has opted for a political approach which involves getting stuck into running the north as a part of Ireland and promoting the benefits of the north-south agenda.

    Policing is of course political. So why would we want to have our political representatives excluded from it? It is untenable to say we will take responsibility for the parks but not for the police.

    None of this is ideal but we have an agreement. The unionists don’t like all of it and we don’t like all of it. But there is no alternative for either of us.

  • kensei

    “The only issue of accountablility is to whom or to what. The answer is people and the rule of law.”

    Excellent. So when we have devolved justice, we will have this, instead of being ultimately accountable to whoever our current grand high overload is.

    I’m glad you agree the rest is smoke and mirrors, and we should all sort get those powers to the Assembly.

  • andy

    Presumably Bruce Arnold has always been in favour of recognising the PSNI? and before them the RUC.
    I would imagie (without getting man-not-ballish) he speaks fondly of the B-specials.
    Did he introduce some new reasons why the shinners should sign up to policing?

    Overall I think a previous commentator summed up the issue in a nutshell. If you don’t agree with the Assemby and executive then fine – but what is the point of signing up for the present constitutional arrangements and not recognising the police? Absolutely no reason.

    I could imagine Republicans thinking.. 30 years of armed struggle for this?… But that’s where we are folks.
    And frankly we should have been here a long time ago.

  • BogExile

    ‘…have as its aim, as well as preventing crime, the maintenance of the Union and the security of the UK state.’


    God help us all. Yep, that’s spot on. Exactly what neighbourhood policing is about. Every time a peeler goes to investigate a cat up a tree s/he has at the forefront of their mind, how can my actions best reinforce the United Kingdom Borders. Issuing a Fixed Penalty Notice for illegal parking is literally shitting on the memory of the hunger strikers.

    Ludicrous nonsense that would be laughed out of court anywhere else outside ‘Zimbabwe Lite’

  • Mickaline

    How ya keepin, Henry?

    “As one of our most respected commenters, Henry 94, has put it, the difficulty for the Republican movement seems to be more psychological than political.”

    So there lies the dilemma. Gerry Adams claims that the decisions Sinn Fein are making are for the long-term benefit of republicans. That being said, how does Sinn Fein placate the psychological “final surrender” perception within that element of republicnism?

  • nmc

    Sinn Fein (rightly) set about changing the RUC, and installing the various measures to make the police accountable. This is all good in my opinion.

    I can totally understand the Republican people who don’t trust the new PSNI, and to a certain degree, the new Sinn Fein. This is Sinn Fein’s lot, they’ve demanded the changes, and said that they’ll go along with things if these changes are made. As a result of that, they are likely (again IMHO), to lose support from Republicans who feel strongly about this.

    Thing is, the agreements and demands have been made, so at this stage Sinn Fein have to step up and say either that things are hunky dory, or that they are not hunky dory and more changes/demands are to be made.

    I would like to have use of the police in my area, and I would like to see certain anti-social behaviour being stamped out. As I’ve said before, the two Gerrys don’t have to worry about hoods, it’s unfortunate people like myself who have to put up with this shit. So get on with it, either endorse the PSNI or give us an alternative. FFS<>