The Stan and Lawrie Show Continues…

Trading Places was a 1980s Eddie Murphy hit comedy film, but it could be confused as a likely sentiment being felt by Rep Ireland manager Steve Staunton as his eyes gaze north from Dublin tonight. Faced with a fifth successive international defeat in only six games as manager (one more than in Brian Kerr’s 32 match tenure as manager), Staunton will surely be hoping/ praying/ baying for a reversal of fortunes ahead of tonight’s fixture with the Czech Republic.
100 miles to the north, and the grass looks certainly greener- and the sky a lighter shade of blue- for the North’s most successful manager since Billy Bingham. Lawrie Sanchez has his fans actually believing qualification can be attained for an International tournament for the first time since 1986, and has publicly set his sights on overtaking Staunton’s men in the International Rankings. With Latvia bound for Windsor tonight, who’s to say Lawrie’s dream ride won’t continue? For Stan, at least a draw is required to relieve the pressure and give him time to ride out the storm.
We shall see…

  • Steve

    cynic,

    talk about digging up the dead. in the round a statelet one third the size of its neighbour who is soon to take it over (belatedly)shouldnt be yakking about an anomaly in the rankings. Sit tight and normal service will be resumed when lawrie goes off to accrington stanley or whoever is the first to offer him a job. Then may mcfetteridge can take over and watch the rankings plummet…………….

    Nah, you can keep your Republic. We have (belatedly) decided against occupying your bog-infested entity. BTW May McFetteridge is in fact already gainfully employed. I mean, have you ever seen Stan and May in the same room? Keep up the good work Sta…I mean May.

  • Billy

    Cynic

    It would be stupid to deny that NI are currently better than RoI and deserve to be ranked higher.

    However, neither team will qualify for Euro 2008. At that stage Sanchez will leave – some NI fans delude themselves that it’s a big job – IT ISN’T – almost any championship club would pay better. I think Sanchez would be in the frame for a decent sized championship club or even a small premiership club – do you think he’ll turn that down for NI? – no chance.

    In the medium term, the RoI are a much better bet. Frankly, I think Stauton should go. However, the RoI have some great kids coming through the Under 19 and youth ranks of major EPL and SPL clubs.

    In a couple of years (hopefully with a new manager), the RoI will have a much better squad and a reasonable chance of reaching the finals of major tournaments.

    That’s why the vast majority of decent young players from a Nationalist background will opt for the RoI which (despite the absolute shite coming from some NI supporters on this site) they are legally able to do.

    Well done to Lawrie Sanchez and I hope that NI supporters enjoy their “day in the sun”. However, it will NOT lead to qualification for any major tournament and their higher ranking than the RoI will be temporary.

  • marty owc97

    Good to see Northern Ireland still ranked the best team in Ireland-48th to the Republic’s 49th .

    Easy! Easy!

  • george

    well said Marty.

    Bring on Licktinstein

  • roisin

    The big one is tonight. Roy Keane versus Mick the Muppet McCarthy. Let’s hope Keane loafs him, for openers. As Billy hints, maybe Sanchez wil be thrown to the Wolves afterwards. Geddit?
    “Therre’s only one club on Wearside, one club on Wearside”

  • ray

    Sanchez has only been interviewed for one job in England and he failed to get it.

    There seems to be very little interest in Sanchez, in the premiership & the championship.

    Maybe league 1 or 2 would be more likely.

  • austin

    Interesting report in the Sunday Life that the first game at the Maze Stadiun would be a George Best Tribute Match involving an All-Ireland soccer team.

    I’m sure we would all agree that this would be a fitting tribute to George who was a strong advocate of an All-Ireland side.

  • Ziznivy

    I’m sure we’d all agree nothing of the sort. With any luck such a thing will never happen and if it does I will be nowhere near that particular match, nor will the vast majority of Northern Ireland fans.

  • austin

    why not?

  • Ziznivy

    Because Northern Ireland fans won’t attend any event that legitimises the creation of an all-Ireland team unless the breakaway association came under the remit of the IFA. Best may have had his views on this, but just because our most talented player says something doesn’t make it gospel. I want nothing to do with an All-Ireland team and what is more I don’t want to see a stadium at the Maze. Most Northern Ireland fans certainly subscribe to the former view.

    If Brazil play in Northern Ireland it should be to play the Northern Ireland national team. The last thing the IFA should do is cosy up to the predatory breakaway association.

  • austin

    Oh dear, sorry to see that this issue exposes your latent hatred towards those who play for and follow the (other?)Irish team and that you cannot set aside your hostility and prejudice for a game in memory of the most talented Irish player ever.

    Following your own dubious logic , why do you claim George as a Northern Ireland hero when he was so ambivalent about playing for Northern Ireland as his playing record shows and indeed when he craved for the creation of an All-reland team?

  • Ziznivy

    He was not ambivalent about playing for Northern Ireland. He was of the view that an all-Ireland team would have more success. That was his view and he was entitled to it.

    There is no prejudice in my dislike for the breakaway association, just an appreciation of their predatory attitude, a detestation of their Northern fanbase and a grasp of the history of the two associations.

    George’s memory has been honoured in many different ways. It is completely unecessary to link it to a meaningless game with a contrived team who represent nobody in a stadium that is not wanted by majority of supporters that faetures a museum of terrorists on its complex.

  • austin

    ‘that faetures a museum of terrorists on its complex.’

    Please stick to sport Ziznivy. Your reference to the proposed museum is not relevant to the footballing debate and betrays your underlying political prejudices.

    And then you wonder why the Northern Ireland team draws its support from one section of the community only and why young players such as Gibson, O’Connor and Kane don’t want to play for NI.

    No wonder, with the likes of you sitting in the Stand.

  • tom

    George Best was always consistant in his support for an all island team and the idea of a tribute game consisting of players from all over the island playing together in tribute to George, would be a fitting tribute.

    Best was not alone in his support for an island team ,Derek Dougan & Pat Jennings are strong supporters of the idea.

  • tic

    George was idolised by fans north and south of the border.

    Why not have a friendly game involving a team drawing its players from all over the island?

    It would be nice to see Duff and Keane playing up North alongside Kyle Lafferty and Sammy Clingan

  • adrec

    Austin

    George Best advocated an all Ireland team for purely football reasons, he is also on record as saying he never expected it to ever happen.

    You on the other hand advocate it because you hate the idea of Northern Ireland existing.

    When the first of you lot who comes out and says, yes I want to see NI wound up because I hate the state, all things NI and all things British…Furthermore I follow ROI because of this, I love the provos, Northern Ireland fans are orange bastards etc etc….well then you will win my respect until then stop misquoting Northern Irish legends and say no to the Maze.

    By the way Austin stop trolling with different names you where caught the last time and warned.

  • kensei

    “When the first of you lot who comes out and says, yes I want to see NI wound up because I hate the state, all things NI and all things British…Furthermore I follow ROI because of this, I love the provos, Northern Ireland fans are orange bastards etc etc….well then you will win my respect until then stop misquoting Northern Irish legends and say no to the Maze.”

    Er, I suppport the Republic because they play under my flag, stand for my anthem and sport players from the whole island. What this has to do with the Provisional IRA I do not know.

    While true I dislike the entire concept of “Northern Ireland” taht is only one part of why i’d like to see an All-Ireland team. the other main ones being that we might have a better chance of qualifying together, and also because it is the only identity we share, and thus the only way to unite all Irishmen on the island behind a team. It’s worked in rugby. How about that? People are one than one dimensional cartooons!

  • kensei

    “With any luck such a thing will never happen and if it does I will be nowhere near that particular match, nor will the vast majority of Northern Ireland fans.”

    Of course, if you want actual evidence of unreconstructed bigotry…..

  • adrec

    Kensei

    “Er, I suppport the Republic because they play under my flag, stand for my anthem and sport players from the whole island. What this has to do with the Provisional IRA I do not know. ”

    They play under the flag and anthem of the ROI, they do not sport players from all this island. Just recently they have poached players from Northern Ireland who come from a Nationalist tradition, none of whom have played for the senior ROI squad.

    If this is your idea of inclusiveness, well we really are off on a bad start on your all ireland team pipe dream.

    Now kensei did you go to the game against San Marino and sing stand up if you hate the brits….or have you still to make it to Landsdowne yet.

    Say No To The Maze

  • Realist

    “Why not have a friendly game involving a team drawing its players from all over the island?”

    Can the game be “Linfield XI” v Brazil?

    “I dislike the entire concept of “Northern Ireland””

    Enough said, kensei.

    Of course, if you want actual evidence of unreconstructed unpleasant…..

  • kensei

    “They play under the flag and anthem of the ROI,”

    Yes. The flag and anthem of the Irish Republic. That, as a Nationalist, is the flag and anthem I have allegiance too.

    “they do not sport players from all this island.”

    Really? But then….

    “Just recently they have poached players from Northern Ireland who come from a Nationalist tradition, none of whom have played for the senior ROI squad.”

    Yet. And the possibility is at least there, and I’d be surprised if there are none with a 6 county background in the past.

    “If this is your idea of inclusiveness, well we really are off on a bad start on your all ireland team pipe dream.”

    I didn’t say it included Unionists, I said it included people from all over the Island. And indeed, beyond. I’d like Unionism to be included, which is why I would be for an All Ireland team.

    “Now kensei did you go to the game against San Marino and sing stand up if you hate the brits….or have you still to make it to Landsdowne yet.”

    Still to make it. I’m hoping to go to Croke sometime next though, as I reckon that’ll increase my chances of getting a ticket.

    Now, if you insist on replying, try to up your level of the debate.

    “Of course, if you want actual evidence of unreconstructed unpleasant…..”

    I think you are confused. I’ll let you into a wee secret – Nationalists and Republicans want to see an end to NI! Shock! In fact, you could almost say it defines them. It isn’t actually unpleasant anything, more a legitimate political goal.

    kthnxbye.

  • Ziznivy

    “Still to make it.”

    “I’d be surprised if there are none with a 6 county background in the past. ”

    Sums up your knowledge and commitment to the Republic’s football team. Never been, don’t know who has played for them. Simply backs them to make a political point.At least the Northern Ireland supporters on here actually go and watch their team.

  • Ziznivy

    “Please stick to sport Ziznivy. Your reference to the proposed museum is not relevant to the footballing debate and betrays your underlying political prejudices.”

    It is a fairly relevant point as to why unionists would be reluctant to go to the Maze and certainly wouldn’t do so to watch an all-Ireland team. What an inclusive day it would be! A wee bite of lunch in the Bobby Sands bistro and then out to cheer on the FAI stealth 11 with no doubt hordes of West Belfast spides donning a foreign country’s flag.

  • kensei

    “Sums up your knowledge and commitment to the Republic’s football team. Never been, don’t know who has played for them. Simply backs them to make a political point.At least the Northern Ireland supporters on here actually go and watch their team.”

    Never been because never had any money. Now I work, and getting to Dublin isn’t easy, and getting a ticket is harder. Watch plenty of matches on TV.

    Also – while some people have an encyclopaedia of knowledge on their team, those people are fucking geeks. Most normal people could discuss a bit about the current team and who they’re favourite all time players are, not the background of every player that has played ever. And not everyone needs to be ultra die hard to be a fan. Some people just join in around tournaments! Fair play to them, I don’t sneer, all support welcome whenever. What age are you? Get a life.

    And you also miss another main point. You’d have to be bloody sad to care where people come from. They play for Ireland, can come from anywhere on it, or among the dispora and that’s enough.

  • Ziznivy

    You can of course watch your football entirely on TV and back whoever you want. It doesn’t make you a supporter of that team though. It also means that those of us with some commitment to our team can totally disregard your opinion as it is completely irrelevant.

    My age is of no relevance whatsoever, but I think you’ll find that most football SUPPORTERS are a bit cynical about the armchair hangers on who claim to be one of them.

    Knowing every detail of every player is of course not a pre-requisite for supporting a team, but you would think you could muster a single name.

    It totally re-inforces my opinion of most Northern Irish Republic fans. Unschooled in the sport and post-1990 bandwagon jumpers. You deserve as much respect and consideration of your opinion from Northern Ireland supporters as some twat up the Shankill in his England top.

  • Ziznivy

    “No wonder, with the likes of you sitting in the Stand.”

    In other words with unionists sitting in the stand. If you think that it’s a political prejudice to adjudge those who were incarcarated in the Maze as terrorists, I think you’ll find it is an opinion every unionist and a fair proportion of fair-minded nationalists share.

  • trev

    “It totally re-inforces my opinion of most Northern Irish Republic fans. Unschooled in the sport and post-1990 bandwagon jumpers.

    If you consider that n.i were only getting about 6000 fans at a game a few years ago, that would make the majority at Windsor ‘Unschooled in the sport and post-England win bandwagon jumpers’

    If you are using your logic !!!

  • kensei

    “You can of course watch your football entirely on TV and back whoever you want. It doesn’t make you a supporter of that team though. It also means that those of us with some commitment to our team can totally disregard your opinion as it is completely irrelevant.”

    Er, no, only if you’re some kind of elitist wank fuck. I would like to get to more games both for the Republic and for Leeds (which I have been to a few times). But it normally quite an expense and difficult to organise in either case, so it is normally an occasion when I go. It doesn’t mean I’m “not a supporter”. Less dedicated perhaps or less prepared to spend silly amounts of money I don’t have on football, but that means jack fuck in this discussion.

    This truly is a discussion more at home in the playground.

    “My age is of no relevance whatsoever, but I think you’ll find that most football SUPPORTERS are a bit cynical about the armchair hangers on who claim to be one of them.”

    Yeah, some have weird superiority complex in some attempt to give their lives some meaning. A lot don’t actually care and the rest of us love it because it makes them so easy to wind up about football. Comedy Gold.

    “Knowing every detail of every player is of course not a pre-requisite for supporting a team, but you would think you could muster a single name.”

    As I said, I don’t actually care where they come from. They play for Ireland.

    “It totally re-inforces my opinion of most Northern Irish Republic fans. Unschooled in the sport and post-1990 bandwagon jumpers. You deserve as much respect and consideration of your opinion from Northern Ireland supporters as some twat up the Shankill in his England top.”

    I was 8 in 1990. In fact, I can remember watching Toto Schillachi knock the ROI out of 1990 World Cup while we were on holiday in Blackpool. I can’t actually remember much else from when I was eight.

  • Ziznivy

    “If you consider that n.i were only getting about 6000 fans at a game a few years ago, that would make the majority at Windsor ‘Unschooled in the sport and post-England win bandwagon jumper”

    At the very odd friendly match. Most Northern Ireland based Republic fans haven’t even been to Lansdowne Road at all.

    Kensei, you’re getting hysterical. I think you realise you haven’t a leg to stand on when it comes to credibility with long-standing, committed football fans. Being a “supporter” does kind of predicate a need to actually support a team, rather than watching them on TV.

    I’d urge all those who actually attend the game to disregard Kensei’s views on it. I watch a hell of a lot of cricket on TV, but I’d not feel I had the right to mouth off to England cricket fans that their team should amalgamate with New Zealand.

  • austin

    No wonder, with the likes of you sitting in the Stand.”In other words with unionists sitting in the stand’

    Not at all Ziv-stop your MOPEry.

    I have no problem with you being a unionist but I am perplexed as to why you felt the need to use the fact that a museum may be situated near the ground as validity for your opposition to the stadium. This shows a breath-taking intolerance and arrogance on your part in refusing to countenance the prospect of something you don’t like actually being built in the vicinity of the stadium that you may attend.

    What will happen if you get your way and the stadium is built in the Ormeau Park?

    Will we have to bulldoze the Irish Language School in the Lower Ormeau because it’s too close for comfort for you?

    I’m being flippant but you make it so easy for me with your thinly-disguised intolerance.

    If you aspire to nationalists feeling comfortable playing for or watching NI, then you will have to leave your politics at home at least for the duration of the game.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Hmmm Kensei, you’ve been exposed as somewhat of a charlatan. Your argument about not being able to get to matches at Lansdowne doesn’t really hold water. The attendance for the San Marino game was about 35,000 which by my reckoning was not a sell-out, nor do I imagine those tickets went like wildfire. If you really wanted to go, you could have gone. Or maybe you were too busy finishing off your thesis on the ‘disgraceful’ behaviour of the IFA.

    Also, how can you say that money is an issue and then admit that you’ve been to see Leeds. A championship game is not cheap. The greatest irony in all this is that in the past you have accused fellow-contributors to Slugger of not being Irish enough based on the football team that they support where as you yourself are much more committed to an English team than your own Irish national team. While I disagree with Ziznivy that all Northern Republic fans are bandwagon jumpers I can see why he has a problem listening to the pontifications from certain contributors to Slugger.

  • tony

    “The attendance for the San Marino game was about 35,000 which by my reckoning was not a sell-out, nor do I imagine those tickets went like wildfire.”

    twgm

    The San Marino game was a sell out. All competitive games are sell-outs.

    All tickets are sold through the Ireland block booking scheme.

    There are currently over 5000 fans on the waiting list for the scheme.

  • austin

    ‘The attendance for the San Marino game was about 35,000 which by my reckoning was not a sell-out, nor do I imagine those tickets went like wildfire’

    sorry but you are misinformed. I was there . The game was a sell-out but the reduced capacity was due to the top tier of bucket seats in the South Stand not being installed for this game.
    There is presently a waiting list of 6,000 people waiting to get on the block booking system on top of the existing 36,000 capacity gates for home games at Lansdowne.
    Roll on Croker…

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Ok apologies for that – my point about the pontification of certain contributors still stands. Jesus – I’ve been to more ROI games and you can count the number of ROI games I’ve been to on the fingers of one, er, finger.

  • kensei

    “Kensei, you’re getting hysterical. I think you realise you haven’t a leg to stand on when it comes to credibility with long-standing, committed football fans. Being a “supporter” does kind of predicate a need to actually support a team, rather than watching them on TV.”

    Jesus H Christ, I hope you aren’t older than twelve. Go and ask any FA in the world if they only value fans that go to matches. Not got a leg to stand on? Only if you are braindead.

    “I’d urge all those who actually attend the game to disregard Kensei’s views on it. I watch a hell of a lot of cricket on TV, but I’d not feel I had the right to mouth off to England cricket fans that their team should amalgamate with New Zealand.”

    Of course, no one ever watches football matches in the pub with their mates, have opinions on it and banter. Hell, no, that’s just crazy talk.

    Perhaps if England alagamated with new Zealand they could avoid… no wait, Cricket is tedious beyond belief. The issue of a united team for Ireland is both a sporting a political decision, so I offered both.

    “Hmmm Kensei, you’ve been exposed as somewhat of a charlatan. Your argument about not being able to get to matches at Lansdowne doesn’t really hold water. The attendance for the San Marino game was about 35,000 which by my reckoning was not a sell-out, nor do I imagine those tickets went like wildfire. If you really wanted to go, you could have gone. Or maybe you were too busy finishing off your thesis on the ‘disgraceful’ behaviour of the IFA. ”

    If I had infinite time and infinite money, sure. Unfortunately, unlike some people I work and have limited holidays to take, and limited money to spend.

    And let’s be real. If you can afford to go to maybe one match a year, or indeed every couple of years, you’re hardly going to pick fucking San Marino for a memorable game.

    “Also, how can you say that money is an issue and then admit that you’ve been to see Leeds. A championship game is not cheap.”

    Actually, I’ve been 4 times. On all 4 occassions my father took me to see them because I was either a school kid or a broke student. I plan to repay the favour by taking him to either Leeds or the Republic when I’ve saved up the money. Because now I have a fairly hefty mortgage, so it’ll take me a little time. Apparently when I manage to make it to a ROI match all my opinions will magically become more valid.

    Ok, and I used to attend Cliftonville matches for a period in my youth as well. They were shit.

    “The greatest irony in all this is that in the past you have accused fellow-contributors to Slugger of not being Irish enough based on the football team that they support where as you yourself are much more committed to an English team than your own Irish national team.”

    Er, no I was trying to find out if their “Irishness” was the same as my “Irishnes” and where they meet. I was trying to understand if they are “Irish” why they wanted another team. I was trying to find out a lot things. Don’t misrepresent me.

    Committed? Simply more oppurtunities and easier to get tickets for a Leeds match.

    Fuck, I’m giving up now, because arguing with idiots is a futile exercise.

  • adrec

    Austin

    Why would you want to demolish a school in the Lower Ormeau……..is Ormeau Park an non go area for Nationalists. Since when.

    It is necessary for the rejuvenation of Belfast that any new stadium be built in it.

    If the proposal is unattractive to the GAA at present they can come aboard at a later date.

    It is becoming increasingly unlikely that any new stadium will be built on the site of the Maze prison….so a nuetral and safe location in Belfast is the only real alternative. The Ormeau proposition has backing form Unionists and Nationalists and Belfast Chamber Of Commerce….it´s only little bliggots like you who want to object and see conspiracies that just are not there.

    Kensei

    You are someone who obviously cares little for football so why comment….I do not wish to stop you from following ROI so why do you have sleepless nights agonising over real football fans following the football team they love Northern Ireland.

    Say no to the Maze. Europes officially recognised No.1 football fans.

  • robert

    The Ormeau venue is a poor choice.

    A nationalist would be safer walking up the Shankill than walking through the uvf stronghold at the lower Ravenhill Road.

    ‘No taigs on our road’ grafitti can still be seen in the area.

  • adrec

    Robert

    The Ormeau Park is accesible via the Lower Ormeau a foot brige is indeed proposed from this area to the stadium. It will be opposite a mixed area, thriving with bars and restaurants, in the very mixed mid Ormeau area. The upper Ravenhill and Upper Ormeau are also very middle class and mixed areas.

    The bottom of the Ravenhill is a run down Protestant area and yes does have slogans. So I would suggest anyone not wanting to be offended by slogans on walls can either gain entrance via Ormeau road or guage their eyes out, because theres very few places you won´t see grafitti.

    The only problem I can forsee for a new stadium in this area is potential vandalism from Lower Ormeau residents, similar to what happened at North cricket club. “No Garrison Sports”.

  • adrec

    Actually if anyone from the Short Strand wanted access to the new stadium, they could walk down the Lagan toll path to the proposed new foot bridge, this will take them straight into the new stadium, without even having to look at an offensive prod face.

    More problems solved.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Kensei
    ‘Apparently when I manage to make it to a ROI match all my opinions will magically become more valid’ – maybe, maybe not. However, presently you give the impression of being little more than an opportunist – someone taking cheap shots at football fans, not for sporting reasons but simply because they may or may not have a different view of the world than you; someone who who sees a lot of political mileage in criticising a team that someone else supports and follows passionately. As for your excuse that you’ve got a hefty mortgage, well boo hoo. What a bullshit excuse – if you can afford to buy a house, you can afford, just once, to go and see your national team.

    ‘Er, no I was trying to find out if their “Irishness” was the same as my “Irishnes” and where they meet. I was trying to understand if they are “Irish” why they wanted another team. I was trying to find out a lot things. Don’t misrepresent me’ – I don’t need to misrepresent you, you do a good job of that yourself. The following are just a few quotes from a discussion you had with a fellow Slugger contributor, someone who follows an Irish national football team to both home and away matches, regardless of mortgages hefty or otherwise…

    ‘Just don’t then say you are as Irish as me, when at best you are only 33.3% as Irish as me’
    ‘You cannot be as Irish as me’

    ‘Fuck, I’m giving up now, because arguing with idiots is a futile exercise’ – yes please do, you are a busted flush. Bugger off and leave the football threads to those that actually care about football.

  • Realist

    “The following are just a few quotes from a discussion you had with a fellow Slugger contributor, someone who follows an Irish national football team to both home and away matches, regardless of mortgages hefty or otherwise…

    ‘Just don’t then say you are as Irish as me, when at best you are only 33.3% as Irish as me’
    ‘You cannot be as Irish as me’”

    And I managed to get a ticket for the ROI v San Marino match too 🙂

  • warren

    Sounds like a great position for a stadium, not.

    People having to make detours and build bridges to gain access.

    The Maze is the best place for the proposed stadium.

  • DK

    The Ormeau Park is lovely. Why would anyone ruin it with a football stadium? Put it in the Maze.

  • adrec

    Warren

    “People having to make detours and build bridges to gain access”

    No Warren it´s called travelling to a match, you will find that teleportation from one´s front room isn´t available yet.

    These are just suggestions as some people find it difficult to look at Ptotestants without being offended. My Aunt Mary when we visit goes into all soirts of emotions at our eyes wide apart faces.

    So perhap`s you can tell us why you perfer the maze, as it seems this option is perferred by people who won´t actually use the stadium.

  • douglas

    adrec

    A bit less MOPEry might help your arguement

  • Ziznivy

    “I have no problem with you being a unionist but I am perplexed as to why you felt the need to use the fact that a museum may be situated near the ground as validity for your opposition to the stadium. This shows a breath-taking intolerance and arrogance on your part in refusing to countenance the prospect of something you don’t like actually being built in the vicinity of the stadium that you may attend.

    What will happen if you get your way and the stadium is built in the Ormeau Park?

    Will we have to bulldoze the Irish Language School in the Lower Ormeau because it’s too close for comfort for you?

    I’m being flippant but you make it so easy for me with your thinly-disguised intolerance.

    If you aspire to nationalists feeling comfortable playing for or watching NI, then you will have to leave your politics at home at least for the duration of the game.”

    An Irish language school is of course in no way commensurate with a museum commemorating convicted terrorists, sitting on the actual stadium complex. Objecting to that is actually consistent with wanting to leave politics at home and keepinh them well away from the match. Having the museum at a sports’ stadium is actually a conscious mixing of politics and sport.

    Certainly merely removing the museum would not be enough to convince me that the arsehole of nowhere was a fitting venue for a stadium, but it is a particularly abhorrent facet of the plans.

    As for your final paragraph, I would be interested to know how you think my politics manifest themselves at games? As I wear only green, sing no song that would be in anyway offensive to nationalists and even abstain from singing the national anthem, I doubt I will cause much discomfort for nationalists who might decide to attend.

  • Lapsed Presbyterian

    What I’ve found most sad about this thread (aside from Kensei whose posts are just inherently depressing, repetitive and predictable) is the implicit assumption that the football-supporting Prods and Taigs just fall into the same old sectarian camps and follow some sort of generic modes of behaviour…so at this juncture I’d like to announce the fact that I’m all for Irish unity, I follow Hibs and Man U and happily cheer on my fellow-Irishmen whether they’re playing for Northern Ireland OR the Republic …I’m also just as proud of the Scots-Irish contribution to American culture as I am of James Joyce and Brendan Behan…hope that helps!

  • adrec

    Idiot

    “A bit less MOPEry might help your arguement ”

    My argument is based on what is Belfast for Belfast, can you give an example of mopery….it is not good enough for you just to come out with bollox if you can´t back it up.

    The Mopery being shown here is by folks who base the entire Ormeau stadium project as a no go for Nationalists because of one slogan at the bottom Of My Lady´s Road, aprox three quarters of a mile from the proposed site of the new stadium.

    One would be forgiven for thinking that anywhere other than Andersonstown Road would be unacceptable to these philistines, and yourself.

    Lapsed Pres.

    No it didn´t help and in fact you smell of troll.

  • austin

    Ziv,

    I accept that from your perspective, you have strong convictions for wanting the stadium in Ormeau Park, as opposed to the Maze.

    I disagree but so what says you.

    Regardless of the eventual location of the stadium, I do think it would send out a very positive signal if An-Ireland team played the likes of Brazil in a high-profile Friendly. This would be a fitting tribute to the memory of George Best but would also send out a strong message that the stadium is designed to be accessible to all sections of the community.

  • austin

    sorry meant All-Ireland team!

  • jim

    Perhaps the n.i supporters club in the Ormeau Road area could host the all Ireland team in their ‘band hall’ prior to the game in the new stadium.

    Sausage rolls, cocktail sausages and a mix of loyalist paramilitaries for company, nice !!!

  • adrec

    Jim

    You are a dinosaur.

    Austin

    Why should an all island side play the first football match at any new stadium. It does not send out any message of inclusiveness whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

    Bringing George Best in to sway this argument is an insult to his memory.

    Any new stadium should be avaialble for Ulster /Ireland Rugby matches, GAA games and Northern Ireland football matches, if you feel that none of these sports represent inclusiveness of everyone in Northern Ireland, then you probably are not a sports fan.

    Say no to the maze, say ues to sport for all.

  • kensei

    “You are someone who obviously cares little for football so why comment….”

    Because I care about more than one thing?
    And if I don’t care for football in general, why have I been over to see Leeds? Or watch matches on TV including almost all of the WC matches? Or read the papers, buy the shirts etc etc Jesus.

    “I do not wish to stop you from following ROI so why do you have sleepless nights agonising over real football fans following the football team they love Northern Ireland.”

    Sleepless nights. I come here, I have a debate. I leave, I don’t think about it unless I happen to get into a discussion elsewhere. Why would I?

    “However, presently you give the impression of being little more than an opportunist – someone taking cheap shots at football fans, not for sporting reasons but simply because they may or may not have a different view of the world than you; someone who who sees a lot of political mileage in criticising a team that someone else supports and follows passionately.”

    Perhaps this is difficult for you to understand, so pay attention. Whether or not to have an All-Ireland team is BOTH a POLITICAL and SPORTING question. So it is obvious that any reasons I have for that will include both those facets. As you have attacked the sporting bit on the basis that as I’ve never attended a ROI match therefore all my opinions must be rubbish, you leave only the political ones, which you then attack me for. Breaktaking, really.

    And I’m interested in politics too. And issues of identity and sport seem to tie themselves up as well, so of course there is fucking mileage in it. Oh, and let’s not forget – I’m talking on a political website.

    “As for your excuse that you’ve got a hefty mortgage, well boo hoo. What a bullshit excuse – if you can afford to buy a house, you can afford, just once, to go and see your national team.”

    And I think I said I will, so in a year’s time this argument will be pointless. But football is far from my only interest, so I have to balance that against others things. It’s on my “To do” list. As is “attend World Cup”, but that will have to wait even longer.

    “Just don’t then say you are as Irish as me, when at best you are only 33.3% as Irish as me
    You cannot be as Irish as me”

    Out of context and as I said, I’m interested in the issue. How can someone be “just as Irish as me” when that is all I’ve got, and they have multiple identities, some of which they are apparently more proud of? Is it really “Irishness”, is it something else? If they are Irish why do they want a separate team, when we can find some common “Irishness” and all supportt he same one? The answer to that seemed to be “I am from NI, which is another way of saying I am Northern Irish” and therefore something different.

    Something doesn’t sit with me quite right when people shift that way, but I’m not 100% sure what. SO I pull at until I see what falls out.

    And some people seem to want to use their “Irishness” to block mine, so I’m interested.

    “yes please do, you are a busted flush.”
    Fuck if I’m going to let you misrepresent me and shout me down.

    “Bugger off and leave the football threads to those that actually care about football.”

    Of course, I don’t actually care about football because I’ve never seen the National team, I forgot.

    “And I managed to get a ticket for the ROI v San Marino match too :-)”

    Interested in how. The FAI website only seems to offer block bookings, and it is completely impossible for me to attend every home game. The only other places are websites that seem to charge a couple of hundred for a ticket.

  • Realist

    austin,

    Whoever Mr Oliver’s “contact” is within the IFA, it’s safe to say that they are obviously not high up the food chain.

    The IFA made this announcement in June past on their website:

    BRAZIL ARE COMING
    19/06/2006
    It has been announced that World Champions Brazil have agreed to play Northern Ireland in the opening game in the new national stadium.

    The announcement was made today (Monday) by IFA President Jim Boyce.

    Following discussions with FIFA and the Brazil FA President Ricardo Terra Teixeira at the World Cup in Germany, Mr Boyce said that he was pleased to announce that Brazil have agreed to play Northern Ireland in opening game of the new national stadium which is planned to be built for the 2010 Olympic Games.”

    Brazil may well be the opening game a new stadium in Northern Ireland, but I don’t believe it will be at The Maze.

    Nor do I believe it will be in 2010 – the UK Olympics are in 2012.

    We have the IFA trying to spin the notion of The Maze, and Mr Oliver talking nonsense about “All Ireland” teams, using Brazil as the bait.

    In 2007 the IFA will begin to understand the depth of feeling amongst the majority of Northern Ireland fans, opposed to The Maze.

    Football doesn’t want it, the GAA and rugby don’t need it.

    NO TO THE MAZE WHITE ELEPHANT.

  • Realist

    kensei,

    “Interested in how. The FAI website only seems to offer block bookings, and it is completely impossible for me to attend every home game. The only other places are websites that seem to charge a couple of hundred for a ticket”

    A friend of mine who follows the ROI throughout the world attended a couple of Northern Ireland games with me recently – versus Azerbaijan and Spain.

    (He’ll be welcome anytime he likes, as he watched two Northern Ireland victories 🙂 )

    He had a spare ticket for the San Marino game as one of his fellow block booking pals couldn’t make it, and asked me would I like to go.

    I was delighted to take up the offer.

    I appreciate that it is difficult to get tickets for ROI games, but I understand that the FAI had some on general sale for the San Marino game.

    When the away team does not take their allocation (10%), I believe the FAI have a “waiting list” of non block booking ROI fans whom they sell to.

    With the ROI now playing home games at Croke Park, it may prove easier for the likes of yourself who is not a block booker to get tickets.

    I would recommend that you contact the FAI and ask to be added on any waiting list they may have.

  • Ziznivy

    Austin,

    A team representing the whole of Ireland is not the crux of the issue. It is being involved in a joint enterprise with the breakaway association that I am opposed to. Particularly given recent events in which the FAI have sought to poach players who have come up through the IFA youth system and have benefited from IFA coaching and resources, I would object most strongly to participating in any such venture with the FAI. As far as I’m concerned, if there is to be an all-Ireland team at any level, to play even one game, it has to be made clear that the Irish Football Association, the original football governing body on this island, is the association it represents.

    Slightly tangentially I’m of the opinion that there was much, much less animosity from Northern Ireland fans towards the Republic’s team in the not so far distant past. I clearly remember backing the ROI in the World Cup 1990, whereas by 2002 I was eager for every other side to beat them. The FAI’s predatory activities are one reason for this change, another was the antics of Jack Charlton in a particular qualifying campaign. Then there was the swathe of northern supporters who clambered on board the bandwagon to the detriment of our own side, the politicisation of a decision to support the Republic’s team by northerners and the fact that the hateful scumbag Keane played for them.

  • adrec

    Ziznivy

    Your last paragraph is spot on….None cheered more than me in 1988 when they beat England….and again none cheered louder than me in 1999 when they scraped an embarrassing draw with Liechtenstein.

    Of course their fans who are fuelled by their hatred of the “brits” and “nordies”, put it down to just a bit of craic when they are caught singing anti semite slogans, and the notoriously bliggoted “stand up if you hate the brits”.

    Kensei

    I have been to 3 ROI games in Dublin as a guest, does this alone not dent your credibility.

    SAY NO TO THE MAZE.

  • kensei

    “I have been to 3 ROI games in Dublin as a guest, does this alone not dent your credibility.”

    No.

    Realist

    Thanks.

  • austin

    ‘Bringing George Best in to sway this argument is an insult to his memory’

    Why Adrec? George unashamedly supported an All-Ireland Team which he was perfectly entitled to do and there is nothing insulting to his memory in recalling his opinion and suggesting a game reflecting his wish as the inaugural game at our new shared stadium.

    Ziv, You are clearly very resentful of the fact that Northern fans had the temerity to follow the
    Irish team.You must know that the Windsor Park of the 70’s ,80’s and 90’s was not a welcoming place for Catholics/Nationalists. I have no doubt that fans like you have made great efforts to change this and to a large degree you have been successful.However Northern fans were always going to follow the ‘other’ team given the hostility towards my community. I know because I attended a few games out of curiosity in those days and was sh*tting myself in case anyone recognised me as a catholic. Instead of deriding fans like me for feeling more comfortable supporting the Republic, you should acknowledge the reasons why fans were afraid to go to Windsor.

    Another reason why NI fans are much more hostile to the Republic is understandable jealousy at the success of the latter in reaching three World Cups Finals and the finals of a
    Euro Championship in the last 18 years.

    Your reference at Jack Charlton’s ‘antics’ is risible in comparison to those of Billy Bingham, One Night in November, when whipping up the home crowd into a frenzied chorus of the Billy Boys. Remember that moment, then ask yourself why northern nationalists support the Republic and why young lads like O’Connor and Gibson wish to play for the Republic.

  • adrec

    Austin

    “One Night in November”
    The title of a play Austin by Marie Jones, it doesn´t feature Billy Bingham, and Marie herself said she only read about the match in some of the local papers.

    Of course you are trying to turn this into Nationalist folklore, in the same way you try to twist footballing remarks from East Belfast legend George Best. You sully the name of Best and Bingham for political reasons (Best never advocated an all Ireland team, he merely pointed out the benefits it might have in competition, he never once pursued these ideas to either IFA or FAI and was a regular feature at Windsor on match days), that really don´t need to be mentioned. Billy Bingham did not lead a chorus of the Billy Boys, he roused the crowd as it was his last match in charge and why shouldn´t he.

    I really don´t care if you support the ROI, you are entitled to do so, I am in no way jealous of their exploits (really grow up), as I can remember well the Northern Ireland glory days in the eighties (two world cup finals and still British Champions), when the whole community where behind the boys in green.

    Austin I have been to three internationals in Dublin with mates, one of which was against Israel. The shame that was brought to ROI football that night was sickening…players and supporters from Israel subjected to the most disgusting anti semite chanting. Garda did nothing, although Holocaust denial and race hate are both crimes within the European union. That night my mates and most ROI fans left disgusted at the mob, since then the FAI have done nothing to curb this kind of hatred among their supporters, with “stand up if you hate the brits” the most popular chant at the moment.

    Players like Kane and O´Connor are being poached by FAI, they have already represented Northern Ireland, now given this level of hostility shown towards it´s neighbour why do you think the IFA would play a combined IFA and FAI team, to mark the opening of a new stadium.

    But you are right in the respect that the IFA and GAWA have come a long way constantly trying to shake the shackles of sectarianism. It will never go away completely and while people like yourself continue to blow up stories, twist quotes from people, always just see one side of the coin and treat anything without a tri-colour on it as hostile it will always be near.

  • cyberman

    Austin

    “George unashamedly supported an All-Ireland Team ”

    How could he have when such a thing didn´t exist in his lifetime.

  • tiny

    Ardec

    Did you used to be Dr Who ??

  • big jim

    I don’t think things have actually improved with regard to the sectarian attitudes of n.i supporters.

    Granted, the ifa have managed to improve the atmosphere somewhat inside the ground, apart from the chanting of loyalist slogans like ‘no surrender’

    Outside is a differant matter.

    Hundreds of drunken bigots singing the billy boys at the top of tates avenue pre-match, is hardly progress.

    Supporters singing songs in celebration of the uff in Lavery’s post match is hardly progress.

    Supporters from Belfast, Ballymena, Glengormley and further afield flying their n.i flags alongside the flags and emblems of the uff & uvf during the orange order marching season is hardly progress.

    I think the ifa were forced into taking action after the worldwide attention given over the sectarian singing & death threats against your own player, Neil lennon. So while the ifa are managing to gain some success in controlling the sectarianism within the ground, its impossible for them to change the sectarian mindset that is still very strong within a large contingent of the support.

    Window dressing will not eradicate the problem

  • adrec

    Big Jim

    No one is denying that there is still an element of NI supporters refusing to move on. Every football team has them including ROI as i´ve pointed out. The important thing is that the IFA are always making strides foward.

    I recently followed GAWA to Copenhagen, flags flown there included Union Flags, Ulster Flags, IFA flags and Saint Patrick crosses. Never once did I witness a UVF flag or a UDA flag etc.

    UEFA have now recognised the effort that NI supporters have made in particular to the enormous generosity in fund raising for UEFA charities.

    GAWA have moved on, the IFA has moved on, Neill Lennon has moved on, don´t you think you and your ilk should do the same.

  • Cahal

    “Ulster Flags”

    Do you mean the old government of northern Ireland flag i.e. the stormont flag.

    I’ve never seen the Ulster flag flown at a ni game. I’ve seen it at Ulster rugby games though.

  • Realist

    big jim,

    “Outside is a differant matter”

    It certainly is.

    Not just for Northern Ireland, but for the ROI and some club sides too.

    Whose responsibility is it for these matters to be tackled AWAY from the ground?

    ROI fans regularly put “add ons” into their singing of the Fields Of Athenry.

    I read only last week of dissident republican groupings canvassing support outside Celtic Park, prior to a recent SPL game.

    I would not be surprised if similar activities have been organised by loyalist groupings elsewhere, surrounding football matches.

    Point the finger by all means, but point it at ALL those who engage in such things.

    Look at things in the round, not just to shore up your own political prejudices.

    And don’t tell us the problem (we know it all too well), tell us the answer.

  • Munsterman

    Realist :

    “And don’t tell us the problem (we know it all too well), tell us the answer”.

    I had suggested one Ireland team, as in rugby, provided that the team play under AGREED emblems, flag, protocol etc. – i.e., one team representing the island in an AGREED manner.
    We can continue to disagree about the 2 states as we surely will – but at least we could find something in common to cheer (or cry) about.

    David Healy scoring the winner v Italy from a Damien Duff pass – does that that not float your boat ?

    I recall some years ago being in a pub when David Humphreys planted a 50-metre penalty to beat France in Paris (O’Driscoll scored 3 (!) tries in same game). Place went ballistic. There were a few lassies from the wee North (your lot 🙂 in the pub and I have to say I was very tempted to have a go – except they had their “Gorillas” in tow.
    My heart was in the right place though……

    I presume you’re off to Ulster v Leinster tomorrow night ….?
    I hear it’s sold out.(again)

  • Realist

    Hi Munsterman,

    “I had suggested one Ireland team, as in rugby, provided that the team play under AGREED emblems, flag, protocol etc. – i.e., one team representing the island in an AGREED manner”

    I am happier to support local players from my part of the world ie. Northern Ireland.

    If the FAI ever wish to return to the fold of the IFA, I have no doubt they will get a fair hearing tho.

    A single Irish team will never to it for me in the way that a team representing Northern Ireland does.

    “David Healy scoring the winner v Italy from a Damien Duff pass – does that that not float your boat ?”

    No.

    Much prefer the winner to come from a Steve Davis pass to Sir David, just like when England were put to the sword – or a Sammy Clinghan pass, similar to the one that ended up in the back of the Spanish net.

    Not that I dislike Duff, I hasten to add.

    “I presume you’re off to Ulster v Leinster tomorrow night ….?”

    Unfortunately not. I’m off to Coleraine to watch the Blues play an IPL game there tomorrow night.

    The IPL programme has been shifted to Friday night this week to accomodate the CIS Cup Final on Saturday.

    I’ll have my earpiece in, listening to events at Ravenhill tho.

    Ulster to shade it.

    “I hear it’s sold out.(again)”

    I believe it is – there’s something special about Friday night games at Ravenhill.

  • LGeorge

    Can we stop listening to the excuses for the terrorists who support the NI soccer team? To hear about progress fighting sectarianism or drug dealing in Loyalist areas from them and to compare them to the South where such things have never been a problem is like listening to the Taliban or Paisley complain about the Pope. No credibility in other words.

    The talk of dissident republicans hanging around outside Celtic Park is more hot air. They cannot organise anything so why try at the wrong end? If you want to stiff a Loylist killer, the best place to get him, on the evidence, seem to be after a Rangers game or one of its more local clones: Portydown, Linfield etc etc.

  • Ziznivy

    Ah, the myth of the one night in November being raised, as well as a series of unverifiable and isolated incidents by individuals or small groups amongst a crowd of thousands. Billy Bingham had the temerity that night to raise a finger and make a motion to sing up to the crowd. Meanwhile Jack Charlton had embarked on a campaign of belittlement, mind-games, mind-boggling disrespect and had used republican songs to wind up his team on the way to the ground. Poor old Billy, his crime was to retire on the night that crowd came to town. When you clear away all the accusations and rubbish the resentment that night came down to one thing, Northern Ireland refusing to roll over and let the Republic win. Billy Bingham was a gentleman and a football giant, Jack Charlton was repugnant on both a personal level and for his contribution to bastardising the beautiful game. It isn’t risible to point that out. It is risible to trot out the same old hackneyed lies 12 years after the game was played.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “And if I don’t care for football in general, why have I been over to see Leeds?”

    er, QED surely? A foot more in a mouth than those of the leeds back 4

  • Realist

    “Can we stop listening to the excuses for the terrorists who support the NI soccer team?”

    LGeorge,

    And whilst we’re at it, can we stop listening to the excuses for terrorists who support the ROI, Celtic etc?

    You really are sadly myopic in your observations.

    You offer nothing at all constructive to resolving the problem.

  • dub

    bla bla bla,

    how come this post is still going on…

    george best DID support the idea of a united ireland football team…

    but maybe its moment has passed as an idea for a while…

    roi team has in a way become more nationalistic whilst ni one less so…

    emotionally i would love to see a united irish team because i really believe that everyone born on this island is irish and particularly i really believe northern protestants are irish… as indeed do most of the latter who have posted here…

    it is obvious to me that this being the case the healthiest option would be a truly united team of hearts and minds representing the whole island…

    as i have pointed out many time the symbols etc would not be hard to agree on… shamrocks, celtic crosses and green… (in fact the ifa symbols)…

    we would have to accept that a lot of supporters might want to bring tricolours and old northern ireland state flags along…

    and some union jacks…

    i think a lot of roi supporters would find that a little hard and old ni suppporters might find it very hard to be in a stadium swamped in tricolours…

    if those facts could be lived with (as they are in rugby) then we would have a goer…

    in the mean time we already have a de facto ui team and a ni team for those who do not feel represented by it…

    this is a fair situation and would only stop being so if northern nationalists were not allowed to play for roi…

    those of us who would like a ui team should in the light of this stop criticising a team which has done a lot to eradicate sectarianism and start arguing for a really represtentative ui team amongst ourselves… coming up with an ireland flag representative of the whole island would be a start… we could then start bringing it to games..

    in other words if we want the change then we should set about changing ourselves…

    if we dont do this we are are not being sincere…

    dub

  • caulfield

    I support NI – always have done and always will. Nevertheless I would have no objection to a united team – if it works in rugby why cant it work in football?? There would be many problems to overcome including all the predictable flags, anthems etc Just for once, however, couldnt we try some compromise? Maybe just a one-off match against Brazil.
    NI are ranked 49th, ROI are ranked 50th in the world
    Ireland are 3rd in the world in rubgy. We have every chance of winning the 6 nations and doing very well in the world cup. I’m not saying that a united ireland football team would be world beaters but we might qualify for something.

  • austin

    Oh Dear Ziv-all these years later and you’re still hurting so bad. Who can forget Alan’s sweet strike that sent the sectarian hordes on the Kop into a stunned silence?

    All of the adventures of USA 94 awaited. On being subjected to yet another tirade of sectarian abuse, Niall Quinn retorted”I’ll send you a postcard from America, pal!”

    How the jealousy of our success of 3 World Cup Finals and a Euro Championship in the last 18 years has been eating away at you and we didn’t even realise until now. What a pitiful and envious bunch of saddos you are!
    In the same time, NI has achieved fuck all squared.

    Oh shit, hold on.

    You’re 48th in the rankings and we’re 49th.

    Oh dear that’s us even then -isn’t it?

  • Ziznivy

    Firstly Northern Ireland have been to three World Cups with a much smaller population than the ROI. Secondly I don’t know where you’re from, but I assume you must be from the 26 counties otherwise “us” hasn’t qualified for anything in the last 18 years. Thirdly that particular game was drawn 1-1 (such a triumph for the ROI!!) after a free-kick was preposterously given for Nigel Worthington winning a clean tackle. Fourthly there was no-one standing on the Kop that night whether sectarian or otherwise as the all-seater regulations had come in and the West Stand and yet to be built. Fifthly, as I had previously indicated, I was actually quite happy to get behind our neighbours in the 1988 and 1990 competitions. Sixthly (if that is a word) your mask has slipped and the real Northern Ireland hating inspiration that always lies behind these “inclusive” schemes has shown itself.

  • austin

    Ziv, I’m from Belfast and I have followed the Irish Team to 2 World Cups and I have been a regular at Lansdowne since 1987.

    However in your warped world, I’m still not Irish as your ‘irish-hating inspiration’ shines through yet again.

  • Ziznivy

    Bullshit. The Repbulic of Ireland team is not “Ireland”, it is a part of it. I choose to support the part of Ireland I am from. It’s your concept of Irishness that is narrow.

  • austin

    Owen go back to OWC

  • austin

    If NI fans are so non-political, can somone please explain why recent debates on their fans web-site have included debates on such footballing matters as ;-
    -Johnny Adair on C5 tonight.
    -The message to Dissident Republicans
    -Lest We Forget….
    -Dissident Republicans campaign

    and the (grand) daddy of them all… wait for it folks-
    -How can I find out which Regiment my Grandad fought in?

    It’s a funny old game…………

  • Realist

    “In the same time, NI has achieved fuck all squared”

    austin,

    That makes your desire to be “united” (cough) with us even funnier 🙂

    Onwards and Upwards.

  • dub 2

    ziz

    Steve Staunton’s Ireland team draws its support from every county on this island.

    Players from all over the island play for Ireland at all levels.

    Like most Ireland fans we see no distinction between our players and supporters from Belfast, Cork, Limerick, Derry ,Dublin or wherever.

    Whatever about the politics, ‘The boys in Green’ see no boundries when it comes to following our team.

  • caulfield

    Austin
    Just had a look at the OWC forum. 99% of topics are football related. The comments about Johnny Adair were hardly complimentary. There was only one political topic in all the “other stuff ” forum
    Not that different to a topic about sport on a political website is it?

  • Realist

    “If NI fans are so non-political”

    Who ever claimed that austin?

    I would say many Northern Ireland fans hold political opinions – of various kinds.

    Keep this to yourself – but OWC even has Catholic/nationalist Northern Ireland fans who contribute. Shock, horror eh?

    Same as political discussions that take place on the various GAA Boards*, the Foot.ie ROI fans board, the TAL Celtic fans board (“for the republican minded Celtic fan”) and many, many other sporting boards.

    What’s your point?

    * classic on the GAA Board at the minute about how middle class, northern “castle” Catholics (you know, the type who have tried to better themselves – heaven forbid, and who dare send their children to schools like Methody) are traitors.

    Funny enough, there’s one about the J Adair programme too.

  • Realist

    dub 2,

    “Players from all over the island play for Ireland at all levels”

    At rugby?

    Name me the last player, born in Northern Ireland, to play for the Republic Of Ireland senior team in a competitive international?

  • austin

    Northern Ireland? Senior Level? The last player?

    Realist,

    Try;-

    Ulster, all levels and future players.

  • austin

    I’ll give this fellah, Realist, his dues .

    His question is the most intellectual poser set by an NI fan since that old footballing classic;-

    ‘How can I find out which Regiment my Grandad fought in during the war?’

    Answers on a postcard please to Uncle Albert at Nelson Mandela House, Peckham

  • Realist

    austin,

    dub 2 stated:

    “Players from all over the island play for Ireland at all levels”

    Assuming that you agree that the six counties of Northern Ireland are in Ireland, perhaps you could tell us who was the last person born in any of those six counties to represent the Republic Of Ireland at senior international level?

  • Realist

    “His question is the most intellectual poser set by an NI fan since that old footballing classic;-

    austin,

    ‘How can I find out which Regiment my Grandad fought in during the war?’”

    Given that the above question was posed in an “Everything Else”, ie. non football related, forum, I am at a loss to see your point.

    Have you one?

  • dub 2

    Realist

    I think you miss my point.

    As a Dublin based Ireland fan i see no difference between our supporters or players from any part of this island playing or supporting their country.

    I have met many supporters from the North at games, home and away, and they are as passionate for ‘the boys in green’ as any supporter.

    With regard to the appearance of young players from the North representing Ireland at senior level, i think we have to look back to the silly unwritten rule between the two associations regarding who plays for who.

    The FAI have obviously had to succumb to the pressure from young players from the North wanting to represent their country at international level.

    Its not a strange development considering that a large percentage of the population support our team and we welcome all Irish supporters and players, irrespective of their colour or religion.

    I wish the Northern team well in the future but please respect the rights of all players and supporters to represent their country.

  • Cahal

    “who was the last person born in any of those six counties to represent the Republic Of Ireland at senior international level?”

    Ahh, I love trivia, even if it is meant to diminish my sense of Irishness.

    Was Shay Given born in Altnegalvin (Derry) or Letterkenny General (Donegal)? Either way he is practically a nordie being from Lifford/Strabane.

  • adrec

    Dub2

    “The FAI have obviously had to succumb to the pressure from young players from the North wanting to represent their country at international level. ”

    Naive or simpy taking the piss. It doesn´t work like that at all and you know it. These young players who have represented their country (Northern Ireland) at junior levels are being poached….some have refused these hostile advances such as Chris Baird, who I hear is going to spill the beans on the nature of these advances.

    I find the episode sickening because it is using politics to try and improve one countries international prospects in an agressive manner towards it´s neighbour. We should be doing more to keep politics well away from sport.

    The IFA have asked FIFA to look into the matter and do have a number of options they can explore, in the meantime beacause of the poaching the FAI have ruined any possibility of an All Ireland Premier League, which would really have to be up and running for years before the idea of an All Ireland side could even be considered.

    Dub2 our team have always been representative of the whole community in Northern Ireland, as a state it exists, rightly or wrongly, it still exists. Playing for Northern Ireland didn´t make Martin O´Neill any less Irish, he captained our side with pride. So your bullshit of ROI being representative of the whole island is firstly insulting and secondly untrue. Have you ever wondered why they only try to poach players from a Nationalist background.

    I would also like to remind you it was the FAI who made the break in Irish football, so if they want to come back into the fold they will need to contact WIndsor House.

    Austin

    You continue to be discredited on this thread, so again you resort to trolling under different names, it´s time for you to LOGG OFF.

  • dub 2

    Ardec

    I cannot argue the political arguements as i am non poitical, unlike yourself, in a sporting context.

    If someone born in Ireland wishes to represent Ireland that’s totally normal in my book.

    Does the fact not exist, that many young players in the North have grown up following Ireland and their natural home is playing for Ireland in Dublin.

    How can you poach a player like Darron Gibson from Derry who has grown up supporting Ireland and who has attended many games at Lamsdowne Road. He lives and breathes Ireland and has no greater wish than to follow in the footsteps of his hero Roy Keane.

    Kevin Deery from Derry City(who was voted young player of the year) has been capped at u17, u19, u21 level for Ireland. He was also named in our ‘b’ international squad. Who poached him ? Noone.

    Its clear that many young players from the North want to represent Ireland and i find it strange that it has taken so long for the FAI to wise up to the situation.

    Perhaps the future lies in a system where young players have the right to choose their international future, free from political influence or threat.

    Surely the FAI should have training facilities within the North to facilitate players who wish to represent Ireland rather than being forced to play for the North.

  • adrec

    “Perhaps the future lies in a system where young players have the right to choose their international future, free from political influence or threat.”

    Couldn´t agree more, perhaps you can remind the FAI and certain Northern so called community groups about this.

    Darren Gibson lived and breathed ROI when he was growing up and they played for Northern Ireland at schoolboy level….Come on man….the first one of you lot of *biggots* to come out with I hate NI and that goes for any of the poached then you will have my respect.

    “Surely the FAI should have training facilities within the North to facilitate players who wish to represent Ireland rather than being forced to play for the North. ”

    LOL LOL LOL…..you really are an arrogant bunch down there. Perhaps the IFA can arrange all this for you and even pay for it. Please supply me the names of any players who have been forced to play for Northern Ireland.

    Your constant referral to Ireland as a team and the North as the outsiders is of course wrong. IFA are Ireland, FAI are Republic Of Ireland. If you are going to refer to us as the North then please at least refer to your team as ROI.

    As for Roy Keane he always put “Ireland” first didn´t he. Besides David Healy wanted to follow in his heroes footsteps, Pele, but the Brazilians refused to break FIFA rules, so he had to settle for the wee place he was born.

  • Ziznivy

    “IFA are Ireland, FAI are Republic Of Ireland.”

    Preach it brother!

    “If NI fans are so non-political, can somone please explain why recent debates on their fans web-site have included debates on such footballing matters as ;-
    -Johnny Adair on C5 tonight.
    -The message to Dissident Republicans
    -Lest We Forget….
    -Dissident Republicans campaign”

    Non football subjects on everything else forum shocker! What a pathetic point.

  • Realist

    cahal,

    “Ahh, I love trivia, even if it is meant to diminish my sense of Irishness”

    How is anyone trying to diminish your sense of Irishness?

    I merely highlighted an inaccurate/misleading statement made by dub 2.

    adrec,

    “Dub2 our team have always been representative of the whole community in Northern Ireland, as a state it exists, rightly or wrongly, it still exists”

    Indeed.

    As has been stated (correctly), many nationalists from each county of Northern Ireland may support the Republic Of Ireland team.

    They do not however watch players from those counties perform, and never have, for the Republic Of Ireland.

    In contrast, I have watched and supported nationalists from each county in Northern Ireland represent Northern Ireland – at EVERY level.

    “some have refused these hostile advances such as Chris Baird, who I hear is going to spill the beans on the nature of these advances”

    That WILL be interesting. Chris loves playing for Northern Ireland, and is a firm favourite of his beloved “Green & White Army”

    dub 2,

    “rather than being forced to play for the North“

    No player has ever been forced to play for Northern Ireland.

    If a player doesn’t want to play for us, he can simply say “no thanks”.

    If he were to say – “no thanks, I’m a nationalist/republican, and as such I do not wish to give credance in any way to the illegitimate six county statelet, in keeping with my political beliefs and principles”, at least his position could be respected.

    Those than wear the shirt of Northern Ireland and then decide they want to play elsewhere are a different kettle of fish altogether.

    For my part, I only want to see players dedicated to the footballing cause of Northern Ireland wear our famous old emerald green shirt -regardless of their political or religious beliefs.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Wow – still going I see.

    Austin – I take it your various posts from the evening of Nov 30, 2006 (07:44 PM, 09:00 PM, etc) are all part of your strategy for persuading Northern Ireland fans to support a UI team, by fostering a spirit of friendship and reconciliation with your fellow Northerners. Why on earth would you even care about uniting with a team, organisation and fans that you obviously hold in such disdain?

    ‘in the last 18…NI has achieved fuck all squared’ – I believe NI has achieved a European record in this time – in fact might even be a world record. Anyway, I think you are being harsh. NI with a smaller population of the likes of Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Albania has still managed to bloody the nose of some of the world’s leading nations as well as, shock, horror, the ROI. There have been some some lean times and some good times.

    Munsterman and Dub – noble sentiments indeed. However, for someone who isn’t (wasn’t) completely opposed to the idea of an All-Ireland team the heart is hardened by reading some of the contributions to Slugger.