William Joyce – Yellow Card!

I don’t normally put up a post to announce a Yellow Card, but in this case I think it is worth it, since it probably requires certain context that some of our more recent visitors may not be aware of. Although we have our moments, one of the things that has marked Slugger out amongst a lot of online fora is the capcity of its commenters to conduct vigorous debate, rather than mutual slagging.The primary rule here is play the ball and not the man. The intention is to encourage people to put their own point of view with eloquence and clarity. Like the best games, Slugger is at its best when people compete for the ball.

If posts or part of posts are removed it is not to censure a point of view, or to attempt to impose some artficial set of manners on how people express themselves, but to encourage people to argue politics.

A yellow card is just a request to clip to substance. I don’t really want to move on to making it a red, but will if I’m forced into it.

  • Bemu s e d

    ‘William Joyce’ is quite patently a troll.

  • Mick Fealty

    We tolerate trolls here Bemu s e d, it’s abusive behaviour and simple sloganising that gets you in trouble, as you well know.

  • Pete Baker

    Mick

    I would have been tempted to bypass the warning and go straight to the same verdict his chosen namesake received.

  • wsc

    Haw Haw

  • Sinner not a Saint

    [removed]

  • willis

    How can you tell a troll from a run of the mill buckeijit?

  • smcgiff

    Mumble Mumble been here years Mumble Mumble William Joyce here only a wet week Mumble Mumble Mumble There’s never been a thread with smcgiff in the title Mumble Mumble Mumble

  • Mick Fealty

    Ach, you never said you wanted one. When’s your birthday?

  • William Joyce

    “Although we have our moments, one of the things that has marked Slugger out amongst a lot of online fora is the capcity of its commenters to conduct vigorous debate, rather than mutual slagging.

    The primary rule here is play the ball and not the man. The intention is to encourage people to put their own point of view with eloquence and clarity. Like the best games, Slugger is at its best when people compete for the ball.”

    I cannot see you getting Ian Paisley or Gerry Adams or thheir acolytes as contributors as they spew out cliches.

    In reviewing the Troubles, think how much of it was due to people being neither hot nor cold, looking for debate instead of solutions.

    As regards Lord Haw Haw:
    1. Was his suspended sentence justufied?
    2. When people ask you what you think of Joyce, say they shouldn;t have hanged him.

  • We tolerate trolls here…….”

    I’d rather see truth tolerated before trolls.

    Then there’s Slugger’s concision problem…

  • William Joyce

    Playing the ball strikes me as a concept the Alliance Psrty would come up with. [removed]

    Lord Haw Haw’s murder was an acknowledged travesty of justice by the way. He too was part of the leavings of Empire.

  • Mick Fealty

    William, them’s the rules. If you don’t want to play the code no one is forcing you.

  • William Joyce

    I noticed you edited my last post. I also note your use of the phrase “play the code”. Is this site, in your opinion, a game, much like a coach version of soccer, rugby or handball, or perhaps, an undergraduate common room? What is your specific objective besides trying to establish your brand blog, as per your blog related threads? Do you want it to actually contribute something of lasting value?
    Your contributor, Fair Deal, who seems, by a recent posat, to be a card carrying DUP memmbe,r has made a career here of attacking and spying on the GAA. Is that playing your ball or simply a symptom of an underlying sectarian mindset, the same mindset that has given WEest and north Belfast in paricular decades of murder and mayhem?

    And, if I still have the floor, consider Richard Dawkins, about whom you have another table tennis like thread. Go read his book or at least the “Northern Ireland” bits, where he paints it as cowboys versus Indians, Catholics v Huncrafters. No mention of Perfidious Albion or of Oxford, who readers would be led to believe, is above such things. This is the same Oxford who suplied the officers and footsoldiers of the discredited British Empire.
    Perhaps the biggest arseholes of all are the Dawkins types who pretend to be above it all, while simultanously benefitting from it all. The British, who sucked so much from their empires, are above it all, just like the Protestants of North east Ulster.
    Imagine if Hitler won the war. Would there be nice “play the ball” sites where the fate of the victims would be consigned to polite play the ball chatter?

  • joeCanuck

    hehehehe

    Suspended

  • William Joyce
    What about that British passport?

  • Harry Flashman

    William Joyce
    What about that British passport?

    Yup and the fact that as he was a citizen of the Irish Free State, one of King George VI’s dominions, he was clearly acting in support of the enemies of the King, the perfect definition of treason, they didn’t hang him high enough.

    I’m curious though William, you see I know alot of your type, good old fashioned Catholic nationalists, who berate the prods for the exact mirror image b!gotry that they themselves often display, and for whom memories of the British Empire and Crossley tenders are as vivid as if they happened yesterday.

    No problem with that each to their own and all that, but Lord Haw Haw? The chief propagandist for the Third Reich, the Nazis, Hitler you know all that good stuff, why the feck would you be so keen to claim him as one of your own? Why would you be so proud of Hitler’s mouth piece that you proclaim him a victim of British oppression a mere six decades after his execution?

    I mean if I was a proud Irish nationalist I would be happy to let the Brits say that the toe rag was British, I would do my damnedest to hide the fact that he had any connection with Erin’s Isle, but you seem to think the arselicking Nazi fuckwit was an Irish hero, a patriot perhaps, why?

  • Mick Fealty

    WJ,

    YOu nearly made through the hoop. The entry bar on Slugger is as low as I can make it. The standards bar should be as high as commenters can make it. Play the ball not the man is the only disciplinary offence. It is clear and it is non political.

    Dawkins is as welcome here as you are. Just stick to the rules, and you’ll find you’ll get a tolerant response, regardless of your views.

    PS: accuracy and detail usually carry much weight. ‘Seems to be’ and ‘probably’ are much favoured devices for trying to paint other players out of the game. Another reason why we have that primary rule.

  • andy

    Flashy
    Good points all.
    And furthermore, little lord Haw Haw was an ardent “west brit” in todays parlance (a bit of an atrocious phrase but fits here). He viewed himself as a “britisher” and boasted of how he spied on the IRA and gave information to the black and tans. Some of this may have been exageration given his age at the time but it displays where his sympathies lay.

    Not really the finest Irish patriot, I would say.

  • William Joyce

    HarryF: I am not sure if you are breaking the house rules attacking Lord Haw Haw. The consensus, as far as I understand it, is the Brits broke the law in hanging him. But htye hanged him because he pissed them off. Nor was he Hitler’s chief mouth piece that went to a more infamous gent. I am not claiming him as my own; a pity you do not play the ball etc. As regards recalling Crossley tenders etc, that seems to be the preserve of Kevin Myers, Eohan Harris and the Prods who stil lbitch about the execution of a few of theur number in West Cork in the 1920s. And your mind, imho, is too simplistic: Lord Haw Haw is one of ours or one of theirs. Provincialist:)

    Mick Fealty: Why can you not say precisely what you mean instead of using the same metaphor twice in your reply.

    You also object to me using perhaps and seems to be when talking about Dawkins. To use your opaque metaphor: word like that are like high balls, to see how you fumble them or where they will drop. Would you prefer it if I said Dawkins was a presumptious English supremacist prick for absolving himeself and his countrymen from the mayhem of the six counties and other corners of the thrice accursed empire? Perhaps the phlegmatic approach is wrong? Perhaps your approach, writ large by Alliance etc, allowed Paisley and Adams to grow? Perhaps your approach allows the Israelis and Ameircans do what they do best? (Kill Muslim women and children). Perhaps as that seems to be the case.
    See, if we pursue that line, we wil hear all the old cliches as to why killing Muslims helps democracy and freedom. We wil hear the George Bush line but with a tolerant accent.
    Many Israelis and Americans belive Muslims are lesser people and are fair game. This was the approach that led to the Troubles and until Paisley and the other criminals wear sack cloth, they should be reminded of it. The same goes for GAA baiters and GAA killers. IMHO, of course.

  • William Joyce

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/5411706.stm

    Queen Elizabrit says bye bye to the RIR/UDR/B Specials. They played the man. Great victories liek the Miami massacre. Well done Bessie!

  • Benn

    No small irony that Lord Haw Haw brings the Jews, oops, I mean Israelis, into it, totally off point, just to do some recreational smearing. Yellow card indeed. Ben

  • William Joyce

    Benn: Do you think George Galloway is an anti Semite (sic)for condemning the war crimes of the Israeli SS? Do you support Israel’s indiscriminate killing of Lebanese Christians and Arabs? Why do you think Iraq was carved up? Whose national interest did that serve? Or maybe you beleive Arabs (and, soon Iranians) are not really people? Don’t bother playing the ball because in the case of the fascism of Israel and the USA and Tony Blair the poodle, it is imposssible to. They are as despicable as the Nazis were.

  • Aw shit, it’s troll against troll.

    Usually on Slugger it’s just the reverse.

    “The entry bar on Slugger is as low as I can make it.”

    Liberal sentiments, Mick.

    A good thorough flush from time to time would do wonders though.

    Maybe Tidy-Bowl for blogs perhaps?

  • Benn

    I guess William that your sense of history and context is as deep as your sense of irony. This thread isn’t about Galloway (who may or may not be an anti-semite), it’s about you and your behavior in here. Inasmuch as you’ve introduced a straw man for a defense of Israel bashing and/or anti-semitism, the better question would be are you an anti-semite. As for me, I don’t support the killing of any innocents on any side, even the British, even the Israeli, sorry if I part company with you there. Maybe when you’re shown off the blog with a red card you’ll find some time to engage in serious historical inquiry and put some things in perspective. It’s not all about you, and you and your pet causes are not the only victims of injustice. Indeed, who among us is free of sin? Cheers, Ben

  • William Joyce

    Smilin Jim: A lot of people despise the mass terrorism of the USA where you live. Just because Gerry Adams gets into bed with the Republican Mark Foley Peter King and just because the Democrats want to disatance themselves from the consequences of their own policies vis a vis Arabs and others with oil does not mean that everyone is a Yank loving Nazi. America is simply the biggest bully on the block and isrsael is one of its most lethal sub contractors. You have no right to be in Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq and any of the ocuntless other countries your storm tropers are in. That view is totally consistent with Irish Republicanism since at least as far back as the Republican Congress. But maybe my voice should not be heard and you sohuld just go on building democracy at the point of a gun in places liek Iran and Iraq where you formerly destroyed it.

  • “A lot of people despise the mass terrorism of the USA”

    Kid, I’ll give your mindflush the serious consideration it deserves:

    Well now just because you think were all Nazis
    Jest because you think we rape babies
    Jest because you think you’ve got
    Somethin’ that the whole goddamn world has not

    Though you made me spend all my money, honey
    Keepin your feckless arse safe Old Joe Stalin
    Well I’m telling you honey I’m through
    With you, well just because
    Well just because

    (sax riff and fade)

    With countless regrets to the Shelton Bros. and Sid Robin

  • Cut, cut, cut

    Take Two

    A vun, unna two, unna tree….

    Well now just because you think were all Nazis
    Jest because you think we’re part of the World Zionist plot
    Jest because you think you’ve got
    Somethin’ that the whole goddamn world has not

    Though you made me spend all my money, Darlin
    Keepin your tosser arse safe Old Joe Stalin
    Well I’m telling you honey I’m through
    With you, well just because
    Well just because

    (Cue Little Richard and a troupe of acrobatic midgets)

  • páid

    An tUasal Seoige,

    I’m a fan of Dawkins and I recall reading the passage you refer to, the one where if I remember correctly, he tries to explain the world to his daughter.

    Yes, he referred in the usual ignorant English way of moaning about Irish prods and taigs hating each other, amongst others, but he, the scientific rationalist, was above all that.

    I remember thinking – Phew, what a twat. Start saving for your daughter’s therapy bills.

    Ach, a Liam, on this site, ye cannae say what I’ve just said.

    You’ve got to stick to the cold facts, not the fact-mongers.

    That’s why it’s a great site.

  • William Joyce

    Smilin Jim: Today’s lead BB story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5414396.stm

    A Navy medic has told his court-martial in California how US marines seized an Iraqi civilian, threw him into a hole and shot him in the head 10 times The USA, as I say, is a terrorist,rogue state that uses weapons of mass desructtion, routinely tortures, kills, invades, breaks the rules of war etc etc. So too does Israel. These are simple facts. The fact that you benefit from this as an American domicile does not change the fact that the USA is a fascist, bullying, terrorist state. Nor does old rope about Zionist plots or cheap quips. Stop killing Arabs and Muslims.

    Now, Pid, I don’t quite understand your post. I follow the English way of modifying and qualifying my English, much to the moderator’s distress. If Dawkins is a prick and if he is part of the problem (as some would argue Paisley and/or Adams are) then why not say that? If he is part of the problem and that is not acknowledged, surely it makes things worse by, in this case, assuming twats like Dawkins who indoctrinate twats like Bob Nairac are not part of the problem.

    I am obviously missing something here. Or not. Let us take the darkie Hughes thread. He is going blind. Now Unionists would say, quite understandably from their perspepctive, what goes around, comes around. The Adams gang would shrug it off just as they shrug off the RIRA/CIRA prisoners who stand where Bobby Sands etc stood 25 years ago. But on this site, it must all be nice, civil and vacuous. Is that the point? Not to call a killer a killer? To pretend the terorist USA is a light on the hill, instead of a snake in the grass? To pretend?

  • Benn234

    Haw Haw is it that Germany lost in WW II that ails you? Yes, the US is big and evil, and Israel does bad things (and both do some good things, but who’s counting), but why limit yourself? How come you’re not including China, and Syria, and Russia, and India, and Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia and Indonesia and Guatamala and Angola and Sudan (talk about picking on Muslims! Oh yeah, you’re not talking about that unless it’s done by Israelis or Americans…) By the way, even the Irish can be brutal. I saw Irish soldiers shoot a priest in the back with my own eyes… on an episode of Father Ted. Get over your moral high horse unless you’re ready to give everyone an equal shot at the saddle and equal time underfoot. There’s no monopoly on victimization or victimizing, meanwhile, you spiral the dialogue downward. Enough of just pissing on each other rather than looking for ways forward. I cast my lot with the positive engagement that some of us in here pursue. Cheers, Ben

  • William Joyce

    Ben: The USA is the world’s super power the owrld’s biggest bully. And the biggest hypocrite. Just like the Brits in the 6 cos. Saudi Arabia? Yes, there is the true heart of evil. If the terrorist US regime wanted to spread democracy, it could begin by geting rid of its cronies there. Or Iran. But it destroyed democracy in Iran and gave us the Shah instead. The USA is the one who should get off its high horse.
    Your “joke” about Fr Ted puts your whataboutery remarks in perspective I think.

  • Rory

    Just because Gerry Adams gets into bed with the Republican Mark Foley (deleted and replced by – )Peter King

    Phew! Glad you got the correction in sharpish, WJ. Hasn’t Foley got enough troubles what with grooming teenage girls on internet sites, now self-confessed alcoholism (Irish-American politician likes a drink – big deal!) and being priest-diddled as a boy, without spreading rumors of a gay relationship with Gerry Adams (don’t get me wrong – nothing wrong with that – consenting adults and all that – right to fully participate to the full extent of one’s sexuality etc.)

    But what gives with Peter King? Nothing in the New York Times so far.

  • “But what gives with Peter King?”

    Maybe the kid means BB King. This new lad would be the type to show up for a date with Blues Boy, a bathtub full of Jell-O and a troupe of midgets.

    The Emerald Tiger is on the tear.

    Lucille will be pissed.

  • William Joyce

    http://kingwatch.blogspot.com/

    Pedro King is Adams’ chief political ally on Capitol Hill. King supports Adams’ Irish line (maybe his Colombian one too?). King also iso ne of Bush’ main supporters for the wars against the people of Iraq etc. So Adams, the great Leftie Liberator, supports the imperialist jihads of the Yanks, as he is in bed with Pedro.
    Was it Brendan Behan who had the quip about being born for Ireland? – during the middle of a Black and Tan raid, the spring sqeuaking had to go on or something.

  • “By the way, even the Irish can be brutal. I saw Irish soldiers shoot a priest in the back with my own eyes… on an episode of Father Ted.

    ROTFL!!

  • ROTFL!! “

    Down with that sort of thing.

    This is serious political discussion.

    Trust me.

  • Southern Observer

    This man/ball thing is a trifle semantic.I mean what’s the difference between ‘saying X is a political fool’ and ‘the political views expressed by X are invariably foolish’?

  • Mick Fealty

    Over a period of time, it makes a big difference SO.

    Trust me.