PUP ditch Reg and embrace SF?

Having tried the UUP, David Ervine’s PUP are now, according to this report, trying a less formal pact with Sinn Féin.. but only in Derry and only on certain issues. The report says the joint statement refers to “a sustained dialogue to develop initiatives based upon common and agreed community issues.” So, after failing to take a ministerial seat from SF in an Executive, the PUP’s bid for respectability now involves attempting to undermine the DUP?

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  • Occasional Commentator

    So SF have an armed wing again? 🙂

  • Pete Baker

    That’s the unfortunate side-effect of the pact that Reg forgot about..

  • austin

    It’s easy for the middle-class intelligentsia like Pete to be so smug and condescending about this laudable initiative between former(?) enemies trying to help improve conditions in working class areas of the city.
    Better try and maybe fail with this project than live in cosy ivory towers like Pete and his elitist ilk who have done f*ck all squared to improve the miserable lot of those who live in interface areas..

  • londonderry_loyal

    Any more details on this story??

  • Crataegus

    Austin

    have done f*ck all squared to improve the miserable lot of those who live in interface areas

    The biggest problem that prevents investment in these areas is the UVF UDA etc. Get rid of them and you may see some of the areas actually improving.

  • fair_deal

    How does going to the left undermine the DUP?

    In the 1998 assembly election the PUP gained 287 votes in Foyle. In 2001 LG elections to Derry City Council the PUP got 153 votes, in the 2005 LG elections they didn’t even run.

  • TAFKABO

    I wonder when the leadership of the PUP will realise that it’s the electorate they should be trying to woo?

    And please, spare me all this we’re doing it for the poor downtrodden masses bullshit. No one has inflicted more damage on working class communities than their self appointed protectors.

  • David

    Do you believe media reports?????
    Even if it is true (very doubtful) what is wrong with the statement? The holier than thou moralists offer this country nothing other than self serving poitical failure.

  • austin

    ‘The biggest problem that prevents investment in these areas is the UVF UDA etc. Get rid of them and you may see some of the areas actually improving. ‘

    Crataegus
    How do you(with your self-indulgent and smug lattn non de plum) propose to get rid of these people?

    Practical answers only please.

  • joeCanuck

    That has been the result of the total failure of the leaders of Unionism to do the right thing from the 60’s onwards. Fron Craig to a certain Lord to Sir Reg and Mr. Paisley, to Trimble even, they have flirted continuously with the so called loyalists. If any of them had ever read Gibbon’s books on the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, they would surely have understood than when you no longer have the courage to stand up and defend yourself, and, instead, ask the “barbarians” to do the dirty work for you, eventually the barbarians take control.

  • Pete Baker

    l_l et al

    There is very little detail at present.. hence the question marks in the original post.

    fd

    The lack of a visible presence, either in votes or indeed candidates, lends credence to my suspicion that this statement would have very little practical consequences.

    That’s the point at which my sceptical mind looks for ulterior motives… and why I noted the timing and the particular wording of the statement.

    austin

    no ivory tower.. just a belfry.. there may or may not be something fluttering in it..

  • austin

    ‘no ivory tower.. just a belfry.. there may or may not be something fluttering in it.. ‘

    Oh such a clever and intriguing answer Pete. No doubt you will now go to bed so full of yourself.

    I’m sure if you could toss pancakes, you would surely be the biggest tosser of them all……………

  • bertie

    birds of a feather

  • ciaran

    Irish republicanism welcomes any repentant and enlightened Unionist to the fold. MLA Leonard from Eest Derry constituency was even a member of SS/RUC. Another shining example was the son of one of Paisley’s erswhile henchmen, Ronald Bunting. The guy was a raving Orange fundamentalist on a par with George Seawight or BoxCar Willie McCrea, mar shampla. But his son became appalled with his father’s Paisleyite perspective and their actions, so young Ronnie Bunting joined the INLA and did his bit for Irish freedome and died tragically in tht process. He died for Ireland. Anyway, I am sure that the Irish nationalist family would/will welcome as many Orange defectors (or converts) as possible.

  • WEE P

    ‘Ciaran’?????????????

    You are the most obvious troll of them all.

    TROLL ALERT!!!!!

  • Nationalist

    This sounds like real politics for once. If the truth be told the PUP and Sinn Fein share common policies and should work closer together, the only policy they differ on is the question of National Interest.

    The DUP and the UUP are NOT parties of the working class people, all their policies are right wing conservative. The Protestant working class need to rethink their voting pattern and for once try voting for a working class party with working class policies and objectives.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    The PUP and Sinn Fein have been doing this for years in other places. Former Antrim UVF commander and PUP representative Ken Wilkinson used to make a big deal out of phoning Sinn Fein’s Martin Meehan on his mobile when a new Tricolour went up in the town, for example.

  • bertie

    “If the truth be told the PUP and Sinn Fein share common policies and should work closer together, the only policy they differ on is the question of National Interest. ”

    That is not all they share.

    “The Protestant working class need to rethink their voting pattern and for once try voting for a working class party with working class policies and objectives.”

    …and just ignore the murder and the other associated criminality. It appears that any old rubblish is considered ok for the working class. Personally I think they deserve better.

  • TAFKABO

    As someone from the working class, I’m getting pretty tired of being patronised and being told who I ought to vote for.

    It must really gall some of the people here to think that we all get to decide for ourselves to put our X against, come polling day.
    Ach sure, if we only played the game and acted according to our stereotype, wouldn’t everything just be hunky dory?

    They do say that rich people despise sex, cos poor people can do it for free. I can see the same disdain for the electoral process, for much the same reasons.

    Whichever way you look at it, we’ll decide who gets to screw us.

  • Crataegus

    Austin

    How do you propose to get rid of these people.

    How do you get rid of thugs, gangsters, racketeers, pimps and drug dealers? In a normal society you need an effective police force and people supporting the police. However in sick old NI the Police are compromised due to past collusion, there is a political side to that problem which is insidious and finally because of the first two problems anyone offering information needs to be very careful that they can’t be traced. So what we have is ordinary citizens ineffectively protected, in fact abandoned. I personally would like to see these criminals hounded down mercilessly, I think it is more important than restarting the Assembly, but there just isn’t the political will is there and I wonder why?

    Whilst UDA & Co dominate areas few people are going to want to live there or invest there. With declining populations and lack of investment some communities will eventually collapse. Loyalist organisations are parasites and they are killing the areas they dominate. Take a walk around the Loyalist enclaves of North & West Belfast if you doubt that.

    If any of us invest in such areas suddenly the problems of the area become our problem and no one in their right mind is going to invite such troubles. If you live there it’s your problem so what do you think is the solution?

  • McGrath

    It seems logical that SF and the PUP would work together on some issues, after all they have the same objective, preservation of their own fiefdoms!

  • Dualta

    The UVF in Derry had a clean out in recent times. There was a move by a group of ‘Ervinites’ to push a bunch of self-motivated criminals out of the leadership. It resulted in a few families leaving the area, if people can remember.

    The result was that the PUP became more prominant and you could see them pushing a peace agenda, with lots of cross-community contact and work with the SDLP on the ground.

    With fair dues to SF, they have been pushing this for a long time. Prominant individuals from the Provisional movement have been taking serious personal risks going to offices in the Loyalist heartlands attempting to build relationships.

    It’s understandable that it has taken as long as this to become more formal, but it should be noted that a lot of good people, with the right motives have invested a lot of time and effort into it over these last few years.

    We should wish them every success in their peace-building efforts. Fair play to all concerned.

  • dub

    Crataegus,

    “in a normal society”.. aye, there’s the rub…

    perhaps you should go over the history of northern unionism from late 19th and see its intimate connection with violence…

    ah you will say that’s true of irish nationalism as well… true but after independence the irish state did not rely on vigilantes and the contiuous threat of violence to maintain its rule…

    who do you think re started the uvf in the 1960’s anyway??

    you middle class unionists are in EXTREME denial as to the imtimate connection between your culture and extreme sectarian violence and years and years of misery for the working classes in “both communities” that has accrued as a result..

    disagree with him as I would on many issues I would credit Dr C C O’Brien for having performed a vital service for nationalists on this island in having forced them to examine their own links between culture and violence (the fact that the cruiser does not have a problem with other people’s violence does not detract from this service…)… u guys need a similar figure…

  • Crataegus

    Dub

    Firstly I am not a Unionist I wasn’t even born here, and I find many aspects of the Unionist ethos repellent. I just don’t regard them as normal modern political parties.

    However in fairness to them I believe that there is a very large portion of the Unionist hinterland who do not support violence in any form and find it utterly abhorrent. In many ways that is why many of them have abandoned politics as they find it and the sheer hypocrisy of their politicians utterly odious. The sad dilemma is they have no real political outlet, they are in effect disenfranchised. They believe they are part of the UK but cannot vote for or against the government of the UK. There is a growing political vacuum. Who should working class Unionists vote for the DUP? Hardly a coherent choice if you are from say from a Trade Union background. The SDLP is hardly an attractive alternative is it?

    Unionists are not the mirror image of SF, yes there are the idiots who parade about with all sorts of thugs (all groupings have a percentage of loons and perverted politicians) but most would prefer not be seen anywhere near them. That is why the PUP and UDP never had any real political success. If you ask most Unionists what should happen to the UDA & UVF you would find the vast majority (at least that I have come across) would prefer them incarcerated and many have much stronger views. As a group they are very much for Law & Order but the PSNI and Legal system is failing many of them. There is the will there to root out these bast**ds and the State should act on it instead of trying to buy them off.

    There is a dire need in NI for parties that are pro Union but do not have all the trappings of the Orange Order and church and state. Modern self confident effective mainland parties. If Reg Empy want’s reforms that is the route he should follow and not embracing the PUP. He has nothing to lose.

    but after independence the irish state did not rely on vigilantes

    After independence you had civil war and divisions that seem to run to this day. As for CC O’Brien I quite like him and have always found him at the very least entertaining.

  • John East Belfast

    Crataegus

    “and I find many aspects of the Unionist ethos repellent”

    thats a bit strong ? – please give examples.

    I cant think of any aspects of nationalism I find ‘repellent’ – I disagree with its outcome but it a noble and proper position to hold in itself

  • Wilde Rover

    Fair play to the Shinners. Reaching out across the divide. And just as we are entering such interesting times. With the Shinners looking for the double north and south, what are the bookies saying about a treble propping up a minority Tory government? After all, if you’re taking seats in the assembly, why not sup from the big glass too? ;0)

  • Crataegus

    John of East

    Well perhaps it is a bit strong, but it certainly is adequate to repel my right hand when it comes to vote. The position and aspiration are fine, but what I find ‘repellent’ with the Unionist parties is the associations with the Orange Order and what for me that represents.

    What I find ‘repellent’ with regards most NI parties in general is the religious and rather narrow tribal connections and constituencies.

    I am not from a Christian background and have no interest in religion and whilst I have no difficulty with people having whatever religious views they want to I find the sort of Bible thumping politics you get in NI really is utterly repellent and potentially threatening.

    I also dislike parties that do not try to be inclusive and accommodate people from different backgrounds and beliefs. The politics of this place is narrow, insecure and inward looking.

    Basically I prefer issue based politics to tribal politics and there is not a lot of that in NI.

  • joeCanuck

    Crataegus

    Well said.

  • james

    never ! never !

  • darth rumsfeld

    “I also dislike parties that do not try to be inclusive and accommodate people from different backgrounds and beliefs. The politics of this place is narrow, insecure and inward looking.

    Basically I prefer issue based politics to tribal politics and there is not a lot of that in NI.”

    Well I take issue with you, crat, on the idea that what we have here is tribal politics devoid of issues. There are many countries that have semi-religious political parties- most obviously the Netherlands- which can ,and do cooperate in a civilised fashion with others on matters of mutual interest. We don’t have parties with overt sectarian structures, though they do appeal to elements within the two main religious communities-elements, note- not the whole community.
    And as for accommodating people from different backgrounds and beliefs- if it produces mush like the uselessTories of Cameron, or New Labour (the one sow’s pigging) -then THAT type of conviction politician Gerry).How many toffs are in the Labour NEC now Wedgies’ retired? How many chavs are Tory MPs?

    Let’s face it. Politics the world over is one lot against another lot, with a group of wishywashy overlappers in the middle. As the world increasingly has a large lump of people who believe in nothing and care for nothing except themselves these two/three groups will become smaller.

    The real indictment of our immature politicians is that they haven’t the guts to govern. If they want to provide services they’ve got to tax us. if not, then let the market do it’s work. So hurrah for the new rates system sez I. Go to jail if you wish Bob, it’ll make no difference.Maybe the burden of useless government waste will persude the people to elect an issue based tax-slashing administration and we’ll all be better off. In the unlikely event that Mark Durkan led it, he’d get my vote.