The pain is academic according to Mary Lou

I posted a story about Mary Lou McDonald MEP in July, and at the time I voiced my reservations about her depth of knowledge, insight and understanding of Northern Ireland. The Sunday Independent carries a report on an interview she did with the Examiner last Tuesday, afraid I couldn’t find it. She is quoted on the issue of Jean McConville as having said: Suffice to say, from my point of view, what happened happened. Jean McConville can’t be brought back. The IRA tell us, and have made a statement that, by their reckoning, Jean McConville was involved with the British security services in whatever capacity. But you know what? All of it at this stage is almost academic, and I know for the family, they don’t accept the IRA’s version and I fully understand thatAcademic heh? Well, I guess the McConville family will be relieved to know that, it should bring some closure to their pain and enduring loss. I will say it again, I think Ms McDonald can display a breath taking lack of compassion and comprehension about Northern Ireland. The only hope for the healing of the past is to acknowledge hurt and wrong doing. Sinn Fein and other groups working to establish the truth of collusion would not settle for being told that their cases were academic, and we should refuse to accept it as an excuse in the case of Mrs McConville. There can be no room to pick and choose which cases deserve full investigations, and which ones can be closed off as academic. This is not an impressive performance.

  • Keith M

    Dreadful and if there are any public meeting in Dublin Central before the G.E., you can be assured I’ll bring it up.

  • Garibaldy

    The link to her article in the July thread doesn’t seem to be working. What did she say?

    I think a lot of southern nationalists have no idea how people experienced the Troubles.

  • rapunsel

    Miss Fitz

    What else would you expect. Mary Lou as far as I am aware is in her mid 30’s and was she not casting around for a career in politics before identifying Sinn Fein as the likely vehicle? God forbid she would want to have to deal with some of the real issues like the disgusting murder of Jean McConville. Mary Lou has to explain the actions of the IRA but it strikes me that she wouldn’t have been too happy to get her own hands bloody, hence she can pass the issues off as academic from the safety of Dublin.

  • MissFitz-

    I ran with an article during the week on McDonald’s comments. Suffice to say, victims are not happy with her.

  • Miss Fitz

    G
    The link is working when I try it, but if you put ‘ Mary Lou Miss Fitz ‘ in the search bar, its the one that says ‘MEP needs a little help with her research’.

  • Garibaldy

    Sorry MF, was unclear. What I meant was taht youf July thread linked to an article by her in Daily Ireland. The Daily Ireland article did not appear when I tried it. Can you remember what she talked about in the article that provoked the thread?

  • CS Parnell

    She is a prime example of why SF’s hopes for Southern advancement will come to nothing (provided FF keep their nerve).

    Putting it bluntly, SF cannot escape their history and if the only option they have for that are the likes of this critter, then, in the words of the great John Lennon “you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow”.

    She should know, though. Adams will dump her like the hottest of hot potatoes if her idiocy becomes a liability. The man is a cold eyed killer and the political career of some piece of eye candy isn’t going to bother him.

  • Miss Fitz

    G
    Oh Lord, I’ll try and remember, but I feel the whoosh of the vultures wings as they circle and wait to correct my recollection.

    She was writing about the reduction in funding for Féile (£10,000) and compared it to the ‘dreadful’ 11th night bonfires and the 12th parades. Pointing out the inequities and so forth.

    The reason I posted the article was that the additional funding had been announced 4 days prior to the article being printed, so there was a basic error right there. I also objected to the fact that she did not highlight any of the good work being done in PLU communities in the reduction of tyres, reduction in drinking and just general attempts at improvement.

    It came across to me as a lazy swipe at a sterotypical Unionism. We cannot and will not find accomodation with that type of attitude and dismissal

  • lib2016

    It’s sad to see the SDLP trying to revive it’s fortunes by adopting the tactics of the Indo. Have yez done the research to check what effect this will have on the post-unionist population because it will destroy you in the nationalist heartlands?

    But of course you’ve destroyed your chances there already or you wouldn’t be desperate enough to try this.

  • Miss Fitz

    Lib
    Are we on the same thread, or have you posted on the wrong one?

  • Garibaldy

    Thanks for that Miss Fitz. Explains a lot. Maybe the DI pulled the article due to the inaccuracies.

  • lib2016

    Miss Fitz,

    What a charming display of innocent naivety. One could almost believe it….and so to bed!

  • Miss Fitz

    Lib
    Dont for a moment accuse me of pushing an SDLP agenda.

    I dont have any affiliations or agendae, I just believe in fair is fair. I also think that this description and dismissal of the Troubles is a PR gimmick too far. ‘Me and Toireasa, we’re too young to remember/get blamed… so slide on’ will not wash up here.

  • CS Parnell

    Anyone care to tell me what in the hell’s name lib2016 is on about?

  • Frustrated Democrat

    CS Parnell

    The fantasy there will be a United Ireland by 2016 as a guess, I think GA many have intimated that date around the GFA then the last census came along and blew his plans out of the water, so as to speak.

    Lib is long on spouting SF rhetoric and very short on facts to back any of his arguements up.

  • CS Parnell

    Well, as John Hume would say, we have a united Ireland, it’s the people who aren’t united, not the island 🙂

    This, of course, is the latest piece of Hume’s approach that Gerry is having to take on board – hence his insistence that the cadre “engage” with unionism.

    But obviously that hasn’t worked its way down to the corner boys who come on here and pump out the hatred of the Orangies.

  • Turbopaul

    What a charming display of innocent naivety.

    Mary Lou has just displayed this political naivety, as I am sure she does not really dismiss the dreadful killing of Jean Mc.

    However, something positive that may come from these comments.

    If good old Connor Murphy plays his cards right, does not say very much to the press in the Mary Lou fashion, he is now the real genuine heir apparent to Gerry Adams.

    I have said it before and as Mary Lou has just put her foot in it big time, its Connor time.

    Move over Gerry, retire and go fishing, pass the beacon of Republicanism to Connor Murphy, it will be the smartest and most politically astute move seen for years and lead to genuine all Ireland landslide success this Nov in the North and next year in the South.

    A bold move like this will give Sinn Fein power a decade early, slam dunk, north and south.

    So, well done Mary Lou you have unwittingly annointed Connor Murphy to leader in waiting for “New Sinn Fein”, party for four corners of Ireland!!!!!!!

  • Mick Fealty

    Miss Fitz,

    “We cannot and will not find accomodation with that type of attitude and dismissal”

    I’m not sure that political players should allow themselves to be bound by such imperatives, however worthy or desireable they might appear. What those with the largest totals of political capital hoarded away in their coffers (ie the DUP and SF) know better than most is that accomodation arrived at without some apparent cost to the opposition can lose you crucial voters.

    Whether you (or I) like it or not, all politicians are bound by the pragmatic necessity to culture the strongest possible future position for the party.

  • Miss Fitz

    Mick
    I agree with your point on political capital, and the point I am making is that the best way to squander that capital is by making such innane and superficial comments such as this,

    I have also pointed out that this is an own goal in many respects. Organisations such as Relatives for Justice and Firinne, call for the truth to be told and for an acknowledgement of their pain and suffering. How will the leadership explain the need to continue looking for this acknowledgement when we now know the facts of the past can be dismissed as ‘academic’

    The point you quote me on in the July post, I am still prepared to vigorously defend. Mary Lou was prepared to criticise Unionist displays and rituals, with little evidence of insight. No matter how full your deck, you cannot always be intransigent in your approach. At the very least, she could have acknowledged some of the work being done to reduce tyres in the bonfires, just giving an inch.

    As someone who witnesses the aftermath of such uncompromising attitudes first hand and face on, I am not being naieve in saying that each side must adknowledge the other for progress to be made

  • pol

    Another Sinn Fein Bashing Thread.

    How boring would your lives be if Sinn Fein didn’t exist.

  • lovely leitrim

    Mary Lou McDonald’s opinion on the death of Jean McConville is irrelevant. She had not reached her third birthday when McConville disappeared. She cannot offer new information or fill in the missing pieces.

    I understand that the McConville family will be upset with what they perceive as the dissmissiveness of their mother’s death. While McDonald’s response is indeed nuanced and evasive, it is not surprising or controversial. She is, after all, a politician.

    The purpose of the question (and the Indo assessment) is to taint McDonald with an incident that happened 34 years ago and has no bearing on her role as an MEP and not pertinent to her role as Sinn Fein’s Chairperson.

    If the media cannot attach current scandal to the Republican Movement, they dig up McCabe or McConville, scream outrage and sell their newspapers.

  • peter fallow

    “If the media cannot attach current scandal to the Republican Movement, they dig up McCabe or McConville, scream outrage and sell their newspapers.”

    There are nearly 2000 dead which will keep the British people of Northern Ireland fighting and defeating the likes of McDonald for generations, lovely leitrim. Don’t you forget it.

  • may lou

    You refer to Northern Ireland and then attack a Republican representative. Why not leave this sectarianism to Fair Deal or the MI5 and CIA agents who are paid for this cheap form of political assassination? Cheap, opportunist shots will not stop the march of Sinn Fein. The future is ours.

  • british and staying so

    You can do what you want in the Republic. Ulster is British and is going to remain so. No surrender.

  • Bem u s e d

    “Suffice to say, from my point of view, what happened happened. Jean McConville can’t be brought back. The IRA tell us, and have made a statement that, by their reckoning, Jean McConville was involved with the British security services in whatever capacity. But you know what? All of it at this stage is almost academic, and I know for the family, they don’t accept the IRA’s version and I fully understand that.”

    Listen – as anyone who posts here regularly will know I have absolutely no truck with the Shinners and view most of their antics with utter contempt. That said, is it just me or has everyone spectacularly misinterpreted this quotation?

    Is Ms. McDonald not saying that the issue of whether or not Jean McConville was working for the British is now academic? Is that not (more or less) correct?

    People who seek to infer some sort of callous insult to her family from the contents of the above quotation really would (to my mind) seem to be operating with a transparently biased agenda.

    Again – I’m just saying it as I see it. Personally I wouldn’t lose a nanoseconds sleep if Ms. McDonald were to get run-over by a bus.

  • DaithiO

    I was recently in the company of a charming German lady in a large group of people. 1 particularly ignorant man tried to make a joke at her expense in relation to the Nazis of the 30’s and 40’s. Her response was fantastic, she pointed out that she was born in 1962 so perhaps he should take it up with someone who was there. Suffice to say the man attempting to make her the butt of the joke was the fool.

    So Ms. McDonald, just like Ms. Ferris before her, when questioned about the Garda McCabe murder surely cannot be held accountable for something they couldn’t be involved in. SF is NOT the IRA, despite the rantings of Papa Doc and his disciples.

  • Daithi-

    Interesting story. Does this German lady consider the Holocaust a crime?

    There’s a difference between her simple existence as a German (she cannot do anything about the conduct of her countrymen during the 1930s and 1940s, but presumably she would condemn their actions regardless of when she was born), and active membership of a political party which justifies the killing of people during the ‘struggle’ at whatever juncture. That’s the crux of the matter- the two scenarios are not analogous.

    And if you want to deal with more recent crimes, how about the Shankill Bomb or the killing of postal worker Frank Kerr in Newry in the 1990s. I’m quite sure Mary Lou is old enough to remember them.

    If she was happy enough to jump ship to a party which intrinsically believes that IRA activity was legal, then she must be prepared to be challenged on that somewhat unorthodox view, regardless of when the sample killings which accompany such inquiries took place.

  • DaithiO

    El Matador

    I’m old enough to remember a lot of shocking things that were done in the name of Irish Freedom. Me wanting and campaigning for that Irish Freedom doesn’t mean I’m responsible for or condone the actions of others who share my goals.

    Mary Lou McDonald, and indeed every member and supporter of Sinn Féin, whilst accepting that the “war” was a legitimite one, surely cannot be held to account for some of the bad things that happened, in the same way as we cannot blame every British member of parliament or member of the armed forces for the despicable deeds commited in the cause of British imperialism !

  • dublin sf supporter

    El Matador

    Mary Lou is very aware of the atrocities in the six counties and has been to the six counties many times.

    Mary Lou is certainly growing in stature and I believe will be the next leader of Sinn Fein after Gerry Adams.

    It has to be someone who is a TD in the Dail. That is where the power will be after the next election. Gerry Adams has done a great job but at some point in the next while the power will shift to the next generation and Mary Lou is very well positioned.

    I think she beats the alternatives in terms of strength of appeal to the electorate and vote getting track record.

    Expect to hear a lot more of Mary Lou McDonald.

  • Gone native

    “‘Me and Toireasa, we’re too young to remember/get blamed… so slide on’ will not wash up here.”
    Just as well then that Mary-Lou and Toireasa aren’t running for election “up here”. :-/

  • DaithiO

    Gone Native…

    And your point is ?

    So you won’t be voting Sinn Féin, so what ?

    What about making a valid point we can discuss …

    Or just leave this stuff to the grown-ups.

  • Basher

    Has anyone actually read the original interview or are you all taking the Sindo spin on it?

  • T.Ruth

    Mary Lou,like other female SF representatives who get included in the party group publicity photos for a time will learn that stealing the limelight from the main players will result in being slowly,almost imperceptibly but effectively sidelined.Being well turned out and smiling in the photos is fine. Making statements that cause the SF PR machine a problem will not be tolerated.
    It strikes older people like myself that the Mary Lou’s of this world do not have the slightest comprehension of what has happened in Northern Ireland in the past forty years.In particular the notion that murder can be justified or that what happened to Jean McConville and is still happening to her family and her memory is not a crime makes her a totally inappropriate person to be involved in our search for solutions that will enable us to share space in a future peaceful Northern Ireland

  • andy

    I think Bemused has hit the nail on the head. My reading of the quote is that the accusation oof working with the security forces are now academic – not the pain of the family.

    Someone earlier on said that Southern republicans (for want of a better phrase) were naive about the violence of the North. I think that’s a bit misjudged – virtually all of the Southern political parties have blind spots on vioolence depending on their perspectives.

    You don’t hear too many PDs and FGers talk about the assasination of SF representatives and their families, for example, yet they’re happy to use previous IRA crimes against the Shinners.

  • Gone native

    DaithiO, my point is, sad though it was Jean McConville is dead. She was killed 30 years ago as part of a nasty conflict. Despite the best efforts of the Sunday Independent, most voters in the south recognise that and have more important things to be concerning them with. Some in the north might also use it as and excuse to jump up and down, but that doesn’t matter either because McDonald isn’t running for election up here and most of the potential SF electorate in the north are intelligent enough to see that the continuous focus on this (almost historical)event is just crass political opportunism by those parties who have a vested interest in keeping us wedded to the past.

  • Gone native

    dublin sf supporter, I really can’t see McDonald becoming the next SF leader. She is too young, inexperienced, doesn’t have the full confidence of the movement and things needed to be bedded down securely in the north first. She’s in the frame for consideration over the next ten years or so, but IMO Connor Murphy as someone from a border area with a good understanding of how things work north and south, will be there first to ensure a smooth transfer of power south.

  • DaithiO

    GN,

    That’s more like it.

    A good point ! 😉

  • dublin sf supporter

    “dublin sf supporter, I really can’t see McDonald becoming the next SF leader. She is too young, inexperienced, doesn’t have the full confidence of the movement and things needed to be bedded down securely in the north first. She’s in the frame for consideration over the next ten years or so, but IMO Connor Murphy as someone from a border area with a good understanding of how things work north and south, will be there first to ensure a smooth transfer of power south”

    Gone native I simply cannot see Connor Murphy getting the leadership of the party. He is very rural indeed in terms of image and would not be a TD in the Dáil and would not have little appeal to the Dublin and southern voter in the way that Mary Lou McDonald has. Mary Lou already has the National Chair and a lead on issues like health and other social issues. She is also much more likely to be able to talk about economic issues and has experience in Europe.

  • lib2016

    We’ve been entertained by accounts of Miss Fitz’s days in Dublin as a Fianna Fail supporter, then by her return from America when she supported Sinn Fein only to become disillusioned and switch her allegiance to the SDLP. Now we learn that she is non-affiliated.

    If consistency is the sign of a little mind then we can be assured that Miss Fitz is wonderfully broad minded. 😉

    There’s no need for Gerry Adams to retire to the Park for a long time yet but if he should decide that he’s had enough then there’s plenty of talent in Sinn Fein to choose from. The pity is that no other political party in Ireland can say the same.

    To those of you interested in my name I’d just like to point out that people hoping to attend the great dubar planned for India in the thirties might have said the same. When the end came for the Raj it took six months.

  • T.Ruth

    The big anniversary will come soon enough and I pray I will be spared to see it celebrated. I refer of course to 2021 when we can celebrate the centenary of Northern Ireland which will have survived all the bombing and the bullets; the treachery of successive Irish governments;several despicable British politicians and the discriminating violence directed at our people by those who refuse to recognise the province,our country, as an integral part of the UK.
    The Unionist people of Northern Ireland accepted the right of the R.of I.to secede from the UK and Commonwealth.Sadly many of the people of R.of I, Northern ireland and further afield did not accept their obligations under international law and in supporting tacitly or actively those engaged in terrorism have flouted the conventions necessary for acceptance as civilised people.
    Unionists have no territorial ambitions. We have only wanted to live at peace in the land of our birth,the land which was historically inhabited by our forefathers.We wish in 2021 to celebrate our Britishness without forgetting that we are Irish.We wish to celebrate that link which for many centuries has afforded all of us freedom of thought,expression and worship. We wish only for peace and prosperity for all. Partition is not,nor has it ever been a problem for us.We are happy within the UK and there is no prospect of a United Ireland such as Republicans hanker for. Stick around Lib2016.
    T.Ruth

  • CS Parnell

    The only park Gerry will be retiring to is the Falls Park. Just think of him running against Bertie and Dick Spring. He’d be made mincemeat of.

    And for that reason he’ll never run. Never.

  • CS Parnell

    T.Ruth, thing is. We did recognise it – maybe not as a country, but most of us didn’t try to bomb you out of it, no more in 1968 than in 1988.

    But you refused to recognise us as being equal citizens.

    Anyway, that’s supposed to have changed now. We made a deal in 1998 and people on your side still refuse to honour it.

    Care for another referendum? You know the agreement would still win.

  • declan

    By 2021 the demographics could well show once and for all that the days of nationalist demographic increase have come to an end well short of that needed to generate critical mass for a united Ireland. In that scenario, which is “scenario 2021”, nationalists may well turn to the idea of a fair repartition.

  • Hidden Gem

    Miss Fitz – ”I think Ms McDonald can display a breath taking lack of compassion and comprehension about Northern Ireland.”

    I agree though I don’t it’s just this one individual SF representative. Their talk is certainly cheap when it comes to compassion and comprehension about Northern Ireland.

    lib2016 – “It’s sad to see the SDLP trying to revive it’s fortunes by adopting the tactics of the Indo.”

    This is the sound of the now predictably callous voice of SF sycophancy, trying to divert attention away from any criticism. This time it’s the turn of the SDLP. Who knows, next time it might be the DUP, the UUP or th various Loyalist paramilitary groups or even those “British securocrats working to an antin-agreement agenda”… Anyone will do if it diverts critisim away from the Shinners.

    The only “sad” observation to be made here is that the Provos turned their guns on their fellow country men or had you chosen to forget that part of our recent history? Clearly that chapter was omitted from the “Idiots Guide To Being A Good Shinner” and Mary Lou didn’t bother to do any background reading. The Republican Movement lost no time in blackening Jean Mc Conville’s name – the same haste has been noticeably absent in helping to bring closure to the families of the disappeared. These families have suffered long enough and they need closure to their pain and anguish not a sickening and patronising tone like the one adopted by Mary Lou. . It is a human right to be allowed to bury a loved one with dignity. The Republican Movement must do more to encourage those who know where the bodies are to make that information available without further delay. The Provos need to get it sorted and fast!

  • T.Ruth

    To CSParnell
    In what respect were members of the Roman Catholic/nationalist/republican community not treated equally under the law in Northern Ireland since its inception?
    T.Ruth

  • Miss Fitz

    I’m worried….. I agree with some of the not so usual suspects on this!!

    Bemused, I take your point fully on the semantics of the piece. However, the point I make is that if you are going to be considered leadership material, you cannot be hung on semantics. What I am trying to put across is that langauage is critically important in the North, and we are acutely aware of nuances, meanings and the layout of flower beds. Slips like that do not help MaryLou’s image, and her earlier slip re-inforces this opinion.
    It may be ‘academic’ who killed her to some, but to the family, to families of the unfound disappeared, and to many of the general public it is raw, emotive, resonant and unfinished business.

    Lib

    Just on a point of sequence, it was SDLP before SF. And you havent mentioned my interest in the Orange Order. I am either scattered or have a short attention span! (Or a wee interest in ritual, community and politics)

  • Cahal

    T.Ruth
    “We wish only for peace and prosperity for all.”

    Except for gay people. You have made it quite clear on other threads that you hate them.

    T.Ruth
    “In what respect were members of the Roman Catholic/nationalist/republican community not treated equally under the law in Northern Ireland since its inception?”

    It is 2006 and still a hard core of unionists can not admit to themselves that ‘their side’ did any wrong here.

    When faced with shite like this, Declan’s repartition idea seems oh so good.

  • T.Ruth

    Cahal
    I have not attempted to create an impression that fault has all been on one side.I am as opposed to loyalist violence as I am to the violence of the IRA. I am opposed to any action of the State that is unlawful. I am opposed to legislation that is undemocratic or that abuses peoples’ rights.I am opposed to criminal behaviour from whichever source, including the Police and Army.
    I was responding in my comment to the assertion that somehow or other the situation in the forties fifties and the sixties was one where the Roman Catholic population was treated unequally in legislation.
    Protestant and R.C. working class people shared exactly the same legal and civil rights and endured exactly the same conditions.Voting rights in Westminster and Stormont were the same for both communities.Gerry Fitt in Dock was elected to parliament with 3000 plus votes out of a 7000 constituency electorate. The Rate Paying Franchise for Council elections was not amended until 1969 in N.Ireland but it did not discriminate on the grounds of religion-it discriminated against those who did not own property.With more Protestants in the province they could well have argued that this system had greater effect on them. .Housing allocation by Councils if anything favoured the Catholic community-between 1945 and 1970 more than 58 percent of Housing Trust units went to Catholics.(88 per cent in Derry)
    Yet there is this deeply held belief that the Catholic community were treated differently from Protestants, that they were on the receiving end of systematic discrimination..
    I do not believe that any thing about the general behaviour or attitudes of the vast majority of Northern Ireland Protestant people prior to 1968 could have justified the violence perpetrated against them on the basis of their religion,race or political affiliation in the past four decades.
    I think that many young people, have difficulty in understanding the past forty years because the propaganda machines have distorted their view of history.
    I asked the question. “Prior to 1968 in what way did legislation discriminate against the catholic community?” I did not receive an answer, merely anger and abuse..
    In a previous thread I did not by the way express hatred for homosexuals or anyone else.I merely iterated the Christian view on homosexual and lesbian behaviour and heterosexual activity outside marriage.These behaviours are regarded by Christians to be immoral.
    The potential for N.Ireland to move forward is not assisted by attempts to rewrite history or to ignore historical realities.
    T.Ruth

  • Southern Observer

    [i]The big anniversary will come soon enough and I pray I will be spared to see it celebrated. I refer of course to 2021 when we can celebrate the centenary of Northern Ireland which will have survived all the bombing and the bullets; the treachery of successive Irish governments;several despicable British politicians and the discriminating violence directed at our people by those who refuse to recognise the province,our country, as an integral part of the UK.[/i]
    It is only fair to point out that there was a concurrent loyalist terrorist campaign which resulted in a four figure death toll.
    [i]We have only wanted to live at peace in the land of our birth land which was historically inhabited by our forefathers….Partition is not,nor has it ever been a problem for us….The Unionist people of Northern Ireland accepted the right of the R.of I.to secede from the UK and Commonwealth.[/i]
    There’ll be some eyebrows raised at this.Please note that the original Ulster Volunteers had a stated aim of stymying Home Rule for the *whole* of Ireland (cf the Ulster Covenant).When it became clear that partition was inevitable Carson and the boys scraped every barrel possible in an attempt to hang on to a *9* county Ulster.When this was a nonrunner their next line of defence was the present 6 county area which still had a nationalist majority in about half its surface area.What we see here is a penchant to grab the maximum amount of nationalist territory that numbers allowed.This points to a hegemonist/supremacist streak in the unionist psyche which is still apparent and which you would do well to address.Even in your posting I sense a configuration of Northern nationalists,who will then be 45%+ of the population, being passive bystanders in you hoped-for 2021 celebratory schema.
    Your use of the word ‘secede’ in relation to the ROI is somewhat Freudian.With its image of the Confederate States of America it suggests that the area now known as the ROI was a willing part of the set-up at its inception.It was not so much ‘secession’ as reclamation of a status quo ante of sorts.
    [i]We wish to celebrate that link which for many centuries has afforded all of us freedom of thought,expression and worship.[/i]
    Anyone with a cursory knowledge of Irish history will realise that the said *link* delivered anything but ‘freedom of thought,expression,and worship’ for the majority Catholic population in Ireland throughout much of the centuries in question.
    If you want to be illuminated about institutional discrimination during the Stormont era checkout the following in the Cain website http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/crights/pdfs/truth.pdf.
    Or look up the Cameron report in this website.
    None of this of course is an excuse for terrorism,past or present.
    The NI state in its present form may well survive until 1921 or beyond.But if it does it will be as an effective Anglo-Irish condominium reflective of the divergent ethnopolitical orientations of its inhabitants.

  • mary lou

    Mary Lou is right as Chris Gaskin points out. This tout is beastly dead. Maybe she will come back with Jesus on the Second Coming. Maybe not. Let’s look to the future with Sinn Fein, the party that built the Peace Process.

  • Southern Observer
  • kensei

    “Bemused, I take your point fully on the semantics of the piece. However, the point I make is that if you are going to be considered leadership material, you cannot be hung on semantics.”

    1. It’s not like Gerry Adams hasn’t come out with a few controversal statements.
    2. There is significant difference between what the thread implies and Bemused’s intrepretation. So much so, is that there is an element of dishonesty to it.
    3. The link provided doesn’t give the whole interview, being someone’s hatchet job and it doesn’t tell us what she said directly after, which could have considerable bearing on the semantics. I can’t find a link to the full thing.

    “It may be ‘academic’ who killed her to some, but to the family, to families of the unfound disappeared, and to many of the general public it is raw, emotive, resonant and unfinished business.”

    That isn’t what was said. What was said that whether or not she was an informer was academic. An entirely different thing.

  • Hidden Gem

    “…Jean McConville can’t be brought back. The IRA tell us, and have made a statement that, by their reckoning, Jean McConville was involved with the British security services in whatever capacity. But you know what? All of it at this stage is almost academic, and I know for the family, they don’t accept the IRA’s version and I fully understand that.”

    It pretty clear what she was saying here and though I fully agree that how something is said is probably even more important than what is actually being said, I don’t think semantics is the issue here. Mary Lou states the facts as she sees them and draws a conclusion. It’s as simple as that. The Provos thought she was colluding with the British Army and, consequently, believed this was a sufficient excuse for her abduction and subsequent burial in an unmarked grave for years on end. This claim, according to Mary Lou, is “academic”.

    A cold hearted, blood-lustful savagery is expected from the Provos, but it is all the more sickening to listen to when their apologists try to excuse and explain it away as a trivial matter. Furthermore, Mary Lou patronisingly “accepts” the family doesn’t believe the Provos! Wow, that’s good of her!.

    Let’s not forget that the Provos didn’t waist any time in blackening Jean McConville’s name and character but the same haste has been noticeably absent in helping to bring closure to the families of the disappeared. The families of the disappeared have suffered long enough they need closure to their pain and anguish. It is their human right to be allowed to bury their loved ones with dignity. The Provos, their apologists and in deed anyone with information, must encourage those who know where the bodies are to make that information available without further delay

  • Miss Fitz

    Kensei

    I think Hidden Gem has said a lot of what I wanted to say in response to your comments. But I want to go back to your point about the post title being dishonest.

    I stand by it. Ms McDonald makes the point that whether or not Mrs McConville was a spy was academic now. And can I tell you that for the family that was split up, mangled and left with the taint of tout over them for years, it was never and will never be academic. You cannot murder a woman on the grounds she was a spy, and then decades later say the reason for the murder was academic.

    Dont for a moment forget the pain and suffering endured by this family, and the grief they have suffered by apologists for the disappeared.

    I have met many families of the Disappeared, and none of any of this is academic. The pain, suffering, agony, uncertainty, fear and rejection within their communities has been part of their daily lives

    Mary Lou needs to know that.