Heading towards a messy Autumn…

You can sense politics slowing returning to life after a long summer snooze. The DUP is refocusing on the need to get rid of the IRA. But David Ervine has suggested that at least two serving DUP councillors are former members of the UVF. Further this item alludes to certain Sinn Fein accusations that cannot be reported for legal reasons [the same legal reasons that would require the immediate removal of unsubstantiated accusations here on Slugger – send any specific information directly to me, or one of the other bloggers]. I predict a messy Autumn!

  • heck

    another excuse

  • Bushmills

    Presumably Ervine, the bottom-feeding low-life is referring to the McKee brothers. This is old ground that we’ve been over before.

  • Bushmills

    And another thing. It’s clear the UUP is about to drop Ervine following the public back-lash against their dalliance with him, hence this latest spitting of the dummy.

  • lib2016

    Oh joy! What is it with these people? As we’ve seen repeatedly this Summer in the threads about unionist and Orange links to the loyalist paramilitaries integrity is not an issue yet they attack each other at every turn just as if they had real principles.

    The pressure on them hasn’t even started yet but the splits have already begun. How very Irish of them.

    (Some of you may not be aware of the saying that the first item on the agenda of any Irish political movement is the Split)

  • fair_deal

    “at least two serving DUP councillors are former members of the UVF”

    He didn’t suggest it, it is well-known and has been reported in the press as has the past convictions of a DUP Constituency officer in North Antrim.

    Is it just me or does the media seemed to have developed a memory of about five seconds?

  • Garibaldy

    Can’t find the statement in question at the PSF website, just a generic one from yesterday by Fra Mc Cann. Nor is it on Indymedia. Anybody know where these allegations were made?

  • circles

    Now won’t that be something new for autumn? (as if the DUP haven’t exercised their hypocrite muscles enough?)
    Paisley gets his dog-collar in a twist and Peter the boy wonder gets all flustered over the need for the IRA to “effectively disappear”, whilst ignoring any suggesting that the DUP have been up to their necks etc. themselves.
    Maybe they’ll take their own advice and effectively disappear themselves. Talk about shameless, hypocritical, double-standard, fork-tongued merchants in negativity!!!

    “Hypocrites” is far too mild a word for the DUP. And then they have the cheek to think they can lecture on democracy. For God’s sake somebody save us from these lunatics…..

  • Irish in America

    How exactly does the IRA “disappear”? They’ve signed on the GFA, decommissioned (with witnesses) and have been cleared of criminality. Should they cut off their arms/legs, so they can’t shoot guns/make bombs and have Gandolf (insert any wizard there) come in and brainwash all ex-IRA so they don’t even think of violence? I don’t get it. The DUP’s excuses are rediculous.

  • mnob

    OK guys – you keep reading what you want to see. This is what was *actually* said :

    “There would be no evidence of activity: they would need to have effectively disappeared. After that, we would need to allow sufficient time to show that that had actually happened, there is no activity on the ground,”

    … and just for the record *again* – the DUP (a political party) are not in there negotiating on behalf of any paramilitary organisation – thats what makes them different from SF/IRA.

  • circles

    So what about the UVF in there then mnob? Is that a case of squeezing your eyes tight shut and sticking your fingers in your ears?
    “no evidence of activity” – what does that mean?
    “sufficient time” – and they’d be the judges right? Whp are they to judge that?
    And then you say that SF isn’t a political party?
    nob – whats your definition of a political party?

  • Bushmills


    Sorry but I think you’ll find there’s only one mainstream Unionist party in hoc with the UVF and it isn’t the DUP. I think its pretty obvious what going on here. The UUP are about to drop Dickshunary Dave and he’s blaming the DUP for pressurising Reg et al into making the move. It’s actually quite funny when Ervine gets rattled, the thing I can’t understand is why everytime he comes out with crap like this he gets massive media coverage, but whenever the UVF kills/shoots/exiles someone he’s strangely silent.

  • Garibaldy


    The DUP has been in league with loyalist paramilitaries on numerous occasions, UVF, UDA, and it would seem from anti-agreement rallies (and pro-Billy Wright rallies) the LVF to boot.

  • KathyC

    Hi all,

    Irish in America-I agree with ya-the dup excuses are running rather lame by now. But what will probably happen…Gerry Adams will come out and say that in the interest of peace process the IRA will have to make some sort of a statment once again…and adams will probably try once again to have the IRA come out and say that they will stop being criminals….the more and longer this drags out….especially in America we can realize that the brits are allowing the dup to drag it’s heals all in the attempt to get adams who is biting at the bit to get back into gov’t and the limelight…to get more out of republicans. I just wish that the sinn fein leadership would stop giving in to paisly et al and start standing up to them….but don’t think that will happen until they (sf) get new leadership or adams is sooooo desperate he gets back on the right road.

  • Bushmills


    McCrea made the wrong decision to be at that event. Wright was a scum-bag and McCrea should have been nowhere near him. But leaving the one moronic actions of an *individual* DUP member aside, it is not the DUP who are in league with Loyalist paramilitarism. It is the Ulster Unionists.

  • Garibaldy


    Leaving aside the Mc Crea discussion lest things be said that might get Mick in trouble, can you seriously deny that the DUP has as an organisation allied itself to paramilitaries when it suited? What about the UWC, the 1977 strike, the period of the Anglo-Irish Agreement, and the anti-agreement rallies where DUP figures were on the same platform as the pastor who was later convicted for terrorist offences as part of the Orange Volunteers? There are other examples.

    In our society, leadership by politicians does involve talking to paramilitaries and sometimes working with them. But for the DUP to pretend it doesn’t do it and hasn’t doing it is barefaced cheek of the first order.

  • Bushmills


    Al I know is that in my area, the paramilitaries hate the DUP as much as they hate the Shinners if not more so.

    Again what I would say is this: McCrea was a one-off example of idiocy. As for the other stuff, if we want to delve into ancient history i.e. the UWC strike, there are very few politicians here who have never spoken to or dealt with paramilitaries. Dealing with the here and now however, I think the DUP has a pretty clean track record (Gary Barr excepted) as opposed to the Ulster Unionists who are up to their necks in it, with no descernable benefits to our community.

    At least Hume can claim that he played a part in moving the Shinners towards democratic politics. What can Empey say? The UVF nearly cut a man in half the other day in Kilcooley during the time that the noble Knight was allied with Dickshunary Dave.

  • Bushmills

    Sorry Gary Blair

  • Garibaldy


    I don’t particularly like dragging up the 1970s, but the fact is that you’d think they never happened from some DUP statements. And there are more recent things, including the September riots last year. As for the UUP, I think the Assembly link is blown well out of proportion – it’s a temporary alliance of convenience. UUP people do sit with paramilitaries in various forums, but so do the DUP.

    In a situation where we are moving towards the slow death of paramilitarism, it’s good that people talk to those close to paramilitaries. But they shouldn’t deny it, just acknowledge it as a fact of life.

  • me

    and lets not forget the dup northern Ireland assembly member who was implicated as one of the murderers of nationalist councillor Patsy kelly back in 1974

  • me

    of the mainstream parties only the SDLP and alliance have clean hands

  • me

    should have read major

  • me

    for the benefit of those who don’t know at what you are hinting please expand on “implicated”. Any information on charge, conviction and sentence served would also be helpful.

  • Nevin

    [i]Al I know is that in my area, the paramilitaries hate the DUP[/i]

    No. Really. If you check the files of the Valuation and Lands Agency for Bushmills you might get a little surprise …

  • Ah sure, we all know this already. The DUP is the DUP. It only thinks that violence is a bad thing when it is used to attack the union. If Northern Ireland were to be incorporated into the Republic in the morning, well then an armed struggle would be justified in the eyes of Paisley. The Democratic Unionist Party is democratic only in so far as democracy can serve unionism.

  • Carnlough

    Surely the point is that any ex UVF men in the DUP have all renounced violence long ago and turned to the Lord for forgiveness…

    Wonder what peace loving DUP Councillor is being referred to in this story about the recent death of an independent Councillor?


    “a council colleague once allegedly threatened to knock his teeth down his throat for being a nuisance.”

    Clue… he is quoted at the end of the piece in a much more conciliatory mood .

    PS Bushmills, you are claiming that the brothers are both ex UVFers. That is not common knowledge, care to elaborate?
    PPS you’re not a McAllister are you?

  • barnshee

    simple really –as long as SF/IRA are not in govt the dupers will prosper –if higher rates and the end of the 11+ are the price of keeping them out the prods will pay up (as will the micks)
    this side of hell freezing over I cannot see the end of the present impass . waving the tricolour (dublin input helps the dupers no end)