Sinn Fein’s US supporters in the news…

FATHER Sean McManus of the Washington-based Irish National Caucus, police critic, and a powerful lobbyist for Sinn Fein in America, visited the PSNI’s (‘third world’) Garnerville police training college in east Belfast on Thursday. Wonder what he thought of its ‘appalling conditions‘, or about the resignation of its head, David Strudley, after less than a year – the fourth to quit in six years. Meanwhile, another friend of Sinn Fein in the US, Congressman Peter King, has backed racial profiling in the war on terror: “If the IRA had blown up lower Manhattan, we’d have stopped people with red hair and freckles,” he told Fox News. Anti-Irish racism from the guy that got Gerry the visa. Nice.

  • Willie from Woodside

    I can’t my head round the Peter King thing. King has people from Sinn Fein working down in his Washington Office so the link between him and SF remains very strong. Perhaps this explains why Sinn Fein never really got involved in the campaign against illegal entry to the USA. It is accepted that Sinn Fein turned their backs on the Irish in America and apart from a few publicity stunts played no part in challenging their favourite Congressman. They obviously did not wish to throw away their ‘King’ card.
    Willie from Woodside.

  • hmmmmmmmm

    Hmmm another priest sticking his oar in.

    “In 2002 a statement from the Caucus labelled the PSNI as the armed wing of unionism and claimed it did not represent a new beginning to policing”

    Well what can you say…utter bollocks.

    “We believe the U.S. has a vital role to play by applying a single — not a double-standard in its foreign policies towards human rights in Ireland. ”

    not double standards, why then pick out one section of the community for particular standards a la

    “In *particular*, we believe the U.S. must not subsidize anti-Catholic discrimination in Northern Ireland”

    I like his quotes from Daily Ireland, abviously he likes informative balanced reading.

    Must drop him an email and ask him what he intends to do to reform the gardai ?

    I liked his blog on Dennis Donaldson, by his words Sean is clearly a charitable and forgiving soul.

    “Thanks be to God, I never knew him nor had any
    dealings with him”

    “And that’s the only good thing I can say about this whole sorry affair. Now we must suspect that
    everything he touched in the United States and in
    Ireland has been contaminated.”

    Would this priest be a general representative of priests in NI ??

  • 50%+

    WFW
    Stop trying to think – it’ll only hurt your brain! re PK it’s called logical reasoning.
    The RUC ran loyalist death squads out of, for example, Mount Vernon killing over 38 nationalists using MV unionists killers. The logic therefore being that the ‘RUC was an armed wing of unionism’.

  • Nic

    According to this wikipedia entry:
    Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads of any country worldwide with around 13% of the population having naturally red hair[citation needed]. A further 40% of Scots carry the MC1R variant gene which results in red hair[citation needed]. Ireland has the second highest population of naturally redheaded people in the world, amounting to about 10% of its inhabitants.

    So Mr. King was cleverly pretending to crack down on the unruly Irish while simultaneouly letting 90% of them roam around free to wreak havoc. You can’t be up to these shinner types at all at all.

  • Nic

    I didn’t originally quote this bit because it’s not directly relevant to the question, but it’s such a mad piece of useless information that I can’t resist. Did you know…

    “Highland cattle are also notably ginger. Until the 19th century, black and brown forms of Highland cattle were more prevalent; however, Queen Victoria’s love of the Highlands influenced her decree that Highland cattle be selectively bred for a toffee colored-coat. Highland cattle have been ginger ever since.”

    Terrorist cattle selectively bred, eh?

  • Keith M

  • Hidden Gem

    I am always amazed to hear any story of a Catholic priest, nun etc attending SF ralllies or supporting SF in anyway, but particularly given their pro-life stance on abortion.


    IRA Party Sinn Fein Passes Pro-Abortion Motion

  • Hidden Gem

    *** CORRECTION ***

    I am always amazed to hear any story of a Catholic priest, nun etc attending SF ralllies or supporting SF in anyway, but particularly given their PRO-CHOICE stance on abortion.

    IRA Party Sinn Fein Passes Pro-Abortion Motion

    There’s a BIG difference eh?

  • na

    HG,

    Do you think it does yours or that website’s credibility any good when you are promoting a barefaced lie?

    See the RTE coverage of the 2006 Ard Fheis for the truth.

    Delegates at the Ard Fheis have rejected a motion backing the provision of abortion facilities in the Republic and endorsing a woman’s right to choose.
    Three motions on the subject were defeated allowing the party’s current position on abortion to stand.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0217/print/sinnfein.html

  • 50%=

    I’m always amazed to hear of any story of protestant clergy attending any Orange Order rallies or supporting the Orange Order in any way, but particularly given their pro-support of the loyalist murders of catholics.

    There’s a BIG difference eh?

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Of course the Ard Fhies wouldn’t endorse a woman’s right to choose. SF after all are the political wing of an organisation responsible for 1700+ deaths – they don’t exactly have a history of being ‘Pro-Life’.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    50%= – when did the OO start endorsing a ‘pro-death’ stance on Catholics?

  • na

    Slugger’s has previously had an extensive and informed discussion on this topic.

    http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2004/10/the_case_for_ma.php

    It is only being raised on this thread as the result of a lie from a self confessed bitter hater of all SF members and voters.

    Should the thread topic really be diverted based on the lies of a commenter?

  • Glen Taisie

    P ossibly
    S oon
    N ot
    I mmediately

  • 50%+

    Endorse:Verb “to declare one’s public approval” OED 3rd Edition.

    Thousands of Orangemen publicly march proudly behind banners dedicated to and celebrating loyalists murderers of innocent catholics. In fact they insist that such endorsement is part of their cultural heritage!

    I think the OO response would be that ‘innocent catholics’ is an oxymoron.

  • Hidden Gem

    na,

    “…you are promoting a barefaced lie?”
    Offensive tone noted.

    My point is that though the SF is often heard talking on behalf of “Catholics”, (particularly Gerry Kelly), and IMO, this is not reason enough to view it as a party which fully supports the Catholic people, their values and what they hold dear.

    I am not going out of my way to promote a “barefaced lie” as you claim. If the article is wrong, it is wrong and I am happy to stand corrected. However the article I cited was one of a few I have read reporting that SF passed the motion proposed by Maghabbery women republican prisoners. Apparently the proposer of the motion is reported to have said that female republicans were used to oppression but had the added burden “of legislation which prevents us taking decisions affecting our own bodies.” This is another article claiming the motion was passed.
    http://www.uklifeleague.com/enews/06-02-28.htm

    There is nothing to be found on the SF website regarding the party’s Ard Fheis and this or any other motion. So we have a situation where one newspaper reports one thing and a different newspaper reports another. Who do you to believe? May be the SF website could clarify the matter and stop us guessing what the SF party line is?

    Having heard both Martin McGuiness and Michelle Gildernew speak publicly in support of a woman’s alleged “right to choose”, I didn’t think this was ever in doubt. In the past Sinn Fein’s view of abortion has certainly been one of “we accept the need for abortion where a woman’s mental and physical well-being or life is at risk or in grave danger; or in cases of rape or sexual abuse. “
    http://social.chass.ncsu.edu/wyrick/test/mule/

    As far back as 2003, Gerry McGeough, the former Sinn Fein National Executive member, was criticising Sinn Fein members who were anti-Catholic on moral issues. This is the guy who was arrested in the States for attempting to buy Stinger surface-to-air missiles for the Provos. He complained of not hearing the SF leadership condemn abortion.
    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/nireland/story/0,,1113241,00.html

    Sinn Féin’s Jim Gibney, in his Bodenstown speech, wasn’t in much of a Pro-Life mood when amongst a lot of other things, he was complaining about those who attempt to criminalise women forced to have an abortion…

    SF Joanne Spain takes a pro-choice stance and she certainly doesn’t like crisis pregnancy advice agencies. In July she wanted Mary Harney to pass legislation which would put pregnancy advice agencies out of business. This SF rep expressed concerned that women might accidentally walk in to them! Hardly the view you would expect from someone representing a Pro-Life, Catholic ethos is it?

    Like most people I have my view on the issue of abortion and others have theirs. My point is NOT whether it is right or wrong but that the general Sinn Fein view of the issue is not in keeping with that of the Catholic Church. In short, Sinn Fein do not represent Catholics.

  • Tir Eoghain Gael

    P.atten S.till N.ot I.mplemented

  • Reader

    Hidden Gem: I didn’t think this was ever in doubt.
    It may well suit SF very well to present a confused view of their position on abortion. Is there anything definitive on the SF website? I didn’t see anything last time I looked.

  • Marcus

    50%+

    Nice one. The hypocrisy of some of the posters on this site is incredible.

    They are outraged that the Catholic clergy have the audacity to express an opinion. Yet the same people willingly defend the OO and say that anyone who is anti OO parades is anti – Protestant.

    However, I have yet to see anyone explain why the OO knowingly has convicted “loyalist” terrorists in it’s ranks and refuses to expel them. Why it has lodges who have banners which blatently celebrate “loyalist” terrorists and they are allowed to march each year.

    When these questions are asked, there is either:

    A denial that these things happen – when the evidence is clear and indisputable – even the OO leadership have admitted that there are convicted “loyalist” terrorists in their ranks.

    A vague waffle about this being a “local matter” and the so-called leadership can’t do anything about it. The leadership is clearly useless – Saulters and the unbelievable Dawson Bailey. However, this is not an acceptable excuse – if they really wanted to change things – they could do so – clearly the will to do so does not exist.

    I’m quite willing to listen to balanced criticism or indulge in intelligent debate. But, I fail to see why I (or any Catholic) should accept criticism from anyone who thinks that the OO (in it’s current form) will ever be acceptable to Catholics.

  • Thrasymachus

    “Why it has lodges who have banners which blatently celebrate “loyalist” terrorists and they are allowed to march each year.”

    Perhaps you could tell us which lodges?

  • Marcus

    Thracymachus

    This question has been asked and answered many times on this forum and others such as A Tangled Web.

    If you’re really interested in the truth – have a quick browse around these sites and you’ll find a full listing of such lodges (there are more than a few).

    However, as a starter, may I suggest that you examine the Shankill Rds Old Boyne Island Heroes LOL 633, [known locally as the UVF lodge].

    On Lodge 633’s banner, under the words “In fond memory of our fallen brethren” are the names of five UVF Lodge members killed during the current conflict.

    Aubrey Reid was one of four UVF men blown up in 1975 when the bomb they were carrying in their car exploded prematurely

    Noel ‘Nogi’ Shaw was ‘executed’ as a result of an internal UVF feud, also in 1975

    John Bingham was a UVF commander shot dead at his home by the IRA in 1986;

    Brian Robinson was killed by undercover soldiers in 1989 just after murder an innocent Catholic in cold blood.

    Robert ‘Basher’ Bates was one of the vermin in the “Shankill Butchers” gang who was later shot dead in an internal ‘Loyalist’ revenge attack in 1997

    A sixth name, that of Colin Craig, gunned down by the INLA in 1994 was once listed on the bannerette but removed when it was thought he had been an informer”

    There is also the well documented case of the OO on the Ormeau road stopping outside the betting shop where 5 innocent Catholics were killed and playing their music as loud as possible while many of the members raised their hands in a gesture of 5.

    The lodge in whitewell has a banner commemorating John Gregg – vicious UDA sectarian murderer and drug dealer.

    It makes me laugh when the OO refuse to speak to resident’s groups as they are supposedly Sinn Fein fronts with Republican ex-prisoners in their midst – the words pot, kettle, black and hypocrisy spring to mind.

  • Nevin

    [i]However, I have yet to see anyone explain why the OO knowingly has convicted “loyalist” terrorists in it’s ranks and refuses to expel them.[/i]

    Sadly, not just the OO, Marcus. How many paramilitaries have been expelled by their respective allegedly respectable churches?

    Folks get upset if children are sexually abused by errant clergy yet the regular abuse of children by paramilitaries for political and/or criminal purposes goes largely unremarked.

    By way of explanation, the OO structure appears to be similar to that of the UUP and the Presbyterian Church; there is limited control exercised at the centre – the tail often wags the dog.

    Was it hypocritical of the Irish government in the mid 1990s to side with those who formulated the Athboy strategy in the lead up to the Drumcree debacle? IMO this partisan approach assisted the growth of paramilitary influence not just within the OO but also within local communities which were mainly Protestant. Then there were the lies told by the British government about the RUC Chief Constable making decisions about contested parades. What a sorry mess …

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Yes Marcus – you are absolutely right, the hypocrisy is incredible. Take this thread for example – a small number of OO lodges glorify terrorists and as a result, the entire organisation stands accused of supporting the murder of Catholics by Loyalists. The argument that it is a ‘local matter’ is not valid, and the fact that the leadership is ‘useless’ is ‘not an acceptable excuse’.

    However, just last weekend, the GAA hosted a rally for 2 organisations that were at times engaged in campaigns of sectarian violence. When the accusation was levelled that the GAA was supporting terrorism and sectarian killings, the response was that this was a non-political event and a ‘local’ matter that central GAA could do little about; and that the actions of the Antrim GAA were not representative of the the GAA as a whole – the GAA was an organisation for anyone who wanted to join, and should not be tarred with a sectarian brush just because a small section holds a political, and arguably sectarian, rally.

    A few weeks before this, the president of the GAA opened a new field named in honour of an INLA terrorist and again, when the accusation was levelled that the GAA was supporting terrorism the response was that the naming of the field was ‘the local clubs responsibility’ and that there was little that the leadership could do about it.

    To be fair, many GAA members posted on Slugger to voice their disagreement with the actions of Antrim GAA. Similarly, many OO members have posted on Slugger to voice their disgust at the glorification of terrorism by elements of the OO.

    So yes, the fact that OO lodges glorify terrorists is a disgrace, and it is a disgrace that the OO do nothing about it. You are right to say that the OO in its present form is unacceptable to Catholics. Unfortunately, it is also disappointing that another cultural organisation, the GAA, hosts rallies celebrating terrorists, and names playing fields after convicted terrorists.

    Why do these organisations allow such questionable behaviour in their ranks?

  • Marcus

    The world’s gone mad

    I agree – I’m not defending those elements of the GAA who supported last week’s rally. I’m not in the GAA but I would not have supported it if I were. Frankly, I didn’t know about the INLA thing – I don’t support that either.

    I’m sure that the majority of GAA members are unhappy about these things. Equally, I am aware that many members of the OO are unhappy with the activities of those lodges that commemorate “loyalist” terrorists.

    I believe that many nationalists would be content to let a lot of OO parades go with no fuss – it is the minority of parades that get the OO a bad name. I have lived in England for many years and, in my experience, the majority of those UK people who care about NI (not many) see the OO as Protestant supremacists who want to march through Catholic areas where they are not wanted. I would accept that this impression is created by a small number of lodges, a few specific parades and, frankly, really poor leadership – Dawson Bailey!! – I’m sure you can imagine the impression he made on English people when he was on national TV condoning “Orange” violence last year.

    I realise that the OO have launched a “PR exercise” to put across an alternative view. However, as a very moderate Catholic, I honestly believe that this will achieve nothing until the OO gets some strong leadership who are willing to take action against the offending lodges – talk is cheap and, at the end of the day, I have seen no positive action from the OO leadership. As I believe that the majority of OO members do not approve of these terrorist commemoration links anyway, I don’t see what the leadership has to fear – surely the only loss of membership would be people that the OO didn’t want anyway.

    I do accept that there is a small minority of people on the Nationalist side who don’t want any OO parades at all. However, if the OO was seen to be taking genuine measures to remove the
    offensive minority of terrorist supporters, I believe the vast majority of nationalists would
    be more tolerant of OO parades that are genuinely about celebrating Orange culture.

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    Marcus – thanks for your measured and thoughtful response.

    ‘..the majority of those UK people who care about NI (not many) see the OO as Protestant supremacists who want to march through Catholic areas where they are not wanted.’ – there are many within NI, including many Protestants who would share this view.

  • sean

    Marcus,

    I have been a member of the GAA for more years than I care to remember! Let me assure you that, in my club at least, there is alot of unease at what Antrim GAA has done. Most of us are waiting to see what action Dublin takes…

  • 50%+

    “the hypocrisy … is staggering”
    I’m not sure that it is hypocrisy. I think that the protestant apologists who post here really do believe what they are posting.
    They might be wrong but they’re not hypocrites – they genuinely believe that they have a divine and cultural right to dress up and march through catholic areas.
    They genuinely believe that there were no ‘death squads’run by MI5 in the RUC.
    They genuinely believe that they are superior to their catholic neighbours – therefore the ‘celtic tiger’ economy is a myth due to ‘taigs’ sponging on Europe.[ screwdriver factories]
    They believe that the best form of government is majority rule – [‘ a protestant parliament for a protestant people’.]
    It’s ok to march behind OO banners dedicated to loyalist killers beacuse there’s no such think as an ‘innocent catholic’ [see weds posts “there must have been a good reason for 4 protestants to beat O’Loans son with iron bars”].
    Their attitude is typical of colonists everywhere else in the world “the natives arn’t fit for government and need to be kept in place [and know their place: as Paisley once said “I’ll never, never speak to the SDLP”.]
    Anyway looking at the demographics they seem to be heading for Carrick from whence they came.

  • eve

    HG,

    I fully agree. Sinn Fein doesn’t really represent Catholics. I’d like to know how his line manager (Bishope?) views Fr McManuss’ support for SF.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Folks seem to have completely missed the point. McManus’ visit is clearly a symbolic signal to republicans.

    Now what do you think it indicates?

    You don’t have to be a genius.

    And if I was an Irish republican, I’d be disgusted at Peter King. Is Sinn Fein?

  • darth rumsfeld

    “There is also the well documented case of the OO on the Ormeau road stopping outside the betting shop where 5 innocent Catholics were killed and playing their music as loud as possible while many of the members raised their hands in a gesture of 5.”

    And the less well documented ( by you at any rate) subsequent expulsion of those who did so by the Orange Order-I hope that you can acknowledge that. I wonder what action will be taken by the GAA against county officials who defied central committee letting the provos gambol about Casement park. I understand TWGM’s point, but sauce for the goose…..

    “The lodge in whitewell has a banner commemorating John Gregg – vicious UDA sectarian murderer and drug dealer.”

    No it does not.And it would not be permitted to.

    As for LOL 633- keep watching.Though one banner of this type is one too many, it is one out of almost 1200.And as morally reprehensible as calling a gaelic ground after an INLA terrorist- at least Bobby Saulters didn’t turn up to dedicate the banner, unlike the GAA president.