Right wing infiltration of Hibs?

The Ancient Order of Hibernians in Ireland and Scotland was at its height a largely self help organisation that held fairly modest parades. The British Welfare reforms of 1948 did away with it’s primary raison d’etre, providing help for the Catholic poor. Now, according to the anti-fascist Searchlight magazine, it is the victim of a campaign of infiltration from the Irish right, lead by former IRA man Gerry McGeogh.

  • Jacko

    “The British Welfare reforms of 1948 did away with it’s primary raison d’etre, providing help for the Catholic poor.”

    In 1948 and for a long time afterwards the republic (Free State) was like a third world country. How did the British Welfare reforms make such a difference there as to do away with the AOH’s primary raison d’etre?
    Everybody didn’t get the boat to England.

  • Garibaldy

    Mick,

    Great story. Although I wouldn’t worry about the AOH being taken over. However, I look forward to the explanations (should there be any) of how this person held numerous sernior positions in PSF
    the socialist, anti-sectarian party.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Mick, woo-ahh! The only group not mentioned in that link I think must be the Illuminati!

  • Garibaldy

    Gonzo,

    That’s because the Iluminati were the enemies of people like Gerry Mc Geogh. If of course they ever actually existed.

  • Rory

    This article from Searchlight was drawn to our attention yesterday by Will in Miss Fitz’s thread “Worst riots in a decade in Newry”. But it certainly is one that merits attention and no harm in seeing it highlighted in a stand-alone thread.

    Annoying as these nasty little people are they really are swimming against the tide and are unlikely to attract any other than sad individuals like themselves who sign up more for psychological than for political reasons.

    As Ireland grows increasingly more secular, more liberal and open on sexuality and grows ever fatter suckling on the European teat it seems a very foolish marketing ploy, to say the least, to launch a group that is pro-Church, pro-sexual repression and anti-Europe. What baubles will they flog on their stalls to raise funds I wonder – hula-hoops?

  • andy

    Garibaldy
    National liberation takes precedence! 🙂

  • Garibaldy

    Liberation from secularism and sodomy it seems

  • Glen Taisie

    Unlike Adams and McGuinnes McGeogh was a soldier

  • Dougie

    Glen Taisie, Adams and McGuinness were soldiers. Soldiers of the Crown. Searchlight is looking for an easy, safe target and is trying to link the Provo IRA in with a legitimate Catholic outfit, and Youth Defence. They are trying to link anti abortionists with the pro abortionist bombers of PIRA. The wonder is PIRA/SF hung on to McGough for so long. Guess they needed someone to take the risks. Searchlight has no credibility. They need people like McGough to feed off.

    There are several hundred impoverished Poles living on the streets of Ireland. Will Searchlight help them?

  • Rory

    Linking anti-abortionists with pro-abortionists, Dougie? Neat trick if you can do it. Almost as good as Father Fahey labelling the Nazi Party as a Jewish conspiracy in the same camp as the Communist Party and… – I almost said the Vatican – but no this is right wing Catholicism so it must be – the Jews yet again.(So good he named them twice).

    It surely is a question of “if you’re not with us you’re against us” with this lot.

    Just so you don’t have to go to a lot of trouble figuring out where I fit in – I’m against. Quite apart from anything else, Fascists are just so mind-numbingly dull.

  • Dougie

    Searchlight need fascists. They feed off them the same way Joe McCarthy fed off Communists. Believing that sincere Catholics are fascists fits the agenda of Searchlight and others. Their simplisitc world views shatter on the rock of Irish politics, the same way globalisation and similar pro American nonsense is being shattered by the resistance fighters of South Lebanon and Iraq.
    All conflicts are complex and labelling bit players as fascists especially in NI where real fascists have made such little headway is fodder only for fools. McGough is better off and so is Ireland with him invigourating the AOH. Better than have him with the narco FARCs of Sinn Fein.

    Searchlight and similar running dogs have it now that any utterances against the Global Order is anti Semitic, fascist and whatever. The pro Doivorce group kicked old ladies off O’Connell Street when the referendum took place. The referendum passed only because the weather was miserable in Donegal and nice in Dublin 4. Donegal and Tyrone Cathjolics who beleive i ntheir religion are labelled as fascists by people like Searchlight who would not help anyone unless they were paid for it. The sinecured opponents of Youth Defence and McGough are much nearer the fascist ideal than they are.

  • na

    Right wing infiltration? Its already right wing.

    And according to a AOH member (yesterday’s IN) SF have already taken control of it and nearly every other organisation in the country.

    By AOH MEMBER, Co Antrim

    THE recent imposition by Sinn Fein on the minds and property of the GAA seems to have startled quite a few people.

    This should not be so – infiltration is the main game in Sinn Fein’s sporting and socialising calendar and has been for a dozen years or more.

    No organisation with a nationalist hue has escaped their attention.

    We have been handed down some great institutions by our forefathers.

    Unfortunately many branches of these have now lost their total independence.

    The GAA a is prime example: so too are the Ancient Order of Hibernians and The Irish National Foresters.

    It is too late for some to regain their identities as they have simply become Sinn Fein clubs and halls.

    It is to be regretted that fear to refuse the advances of Sinn Fein was the prime cause of many of our leading clubs loosing their cherished principles.

    Being mainly rural groups, they should have spotted the cuckoo hovering around waiting its chance to take over the nest.

    The offspring is now too big within to do anything about it.

    But others only marginally infiltrated – or who have not yet yielded – should take a serious look at what they are handing down to the next generation.

    Now that’s what I call paranoid and completely unsubstantiated (but you don’t need to present evidence in our world – speculation is readily

  • Rory

    Searchlight need fascists

    OK, Dougie, I agree with you there. So let’s all help build the conditions for a more equitable, tolerant, multi-cultural society where people are free to express their own human sexuality and to make free choices on issues so that fascism will never have the ground from which to breed and raise its ugly head.

  • Dougie

    Na speels it out, even with some exaggeration. Sinn Fein grow like a cancer and the political bigots of Searchlight zoom in on one non entity, who runs a micro paper. If Searhlight are so against IRA bombs, why not zoon in on Sinn Fein? They have many more ex bombers than do McGough’s micro team.

    And Rory, it is legitimate to oppose butt fuckers. Plenty of fascists were fond of the tradesman’s entrance; the Nazis thrived on it, J Edgar Hoover was a queen and Sinn Fein have problems galore in this end. Margaret Thatcher was also fervently pro choice and she never missed a pro choice vote in all her years in the Commons. So, less of the right wing/left wing undergraduate nonsense. Leave Searchlight get off on that.

  • Rory

    Very good, Dougie, carry on. I do hope you find where it is that you are going.

  • jerryp

    Irish National Foresters ? Who or what are they ?
    They sound like something from a Monty Python sketch.Come to think of it,so do Youth Defence.

  • Dougie

    jerryp: Good post/question. I think these were Eddie McAteer/ Wee Joe Devlin strongholds back in the good old days. McGough thinks by taking ocer these dead, hollowed-out trees, he can replicate the post 1916 Sinn Fein takeover. But he lacks the yeast. So leave him get off on that and Searchlight get off on piking on the smallest kid in the schoolyard.

    For anyone into this, the Celtic Wolves, an Irish neo Nazi group of about 4 members, are interesting. They have plans to take over RSF, who often figure as takeover targets in these far right rants. Talk about al ittle knowledge being a dangerous thing.

  • P O’Neil

    Lets get one thing straight. The biggest lie from the Socialist left is that fascism is right-wing, it is not. Fascism is left-wing, ie Nazis were (are) left-wing – National Socialists. Left wingers are into bigger governments and corporate control of the population – the cornerstone of fascism. The far right is anarchist ie no big fascist / tyranical governments controlling and shaping our lives and conditioning our minds. Even Karl Marx didnt believe in the ideals of socialism, but embraced it as a way of destroying the political structure of western civilisation. Socialism leads to communism. Only problem is the left and right wings are part of the same phoney paradigm, basically, the left and right are controlled by the same forces, and is just another vehicle with which to polarise and control the masses.

  • Rory

    Thank you for that detailed analysis of Marxist theory in less than 200 words, P O’Neill. The Reduced Shakespeare Company couldn’t have done it better. Have you considered auditioning?

    I sure hope that you are not in the military. A man who can’t tell his left from his right is bound to get a lot of grief from his drill-sergeant. “Hay foot, Straw foot!” Remember that.

  • P O’Neil

    “I sure hope that you are not in the military. A man who can’t tell his left from his right is bound to get a lot of grief from his drill-sergeant. “Hay foot, Straw foot!” Remember that”

    Thanks for your barbed comments – I suggest that before you open your arse cheecks again, you go do some real research insted of regurgitating your percondioned Socialist BS. The Nazis and Neo-Nazis are NATIONAL SOCAILISTS (left wingers). The Socailist use such labels and outright lies to vilify the legitimate right wing.

  • P O’Neil

    It appears that the majority of posters here seem to be Socialists – I take it that you all love Blair, since he too is a ragging little Socialist. Just take a look at what he and his governmental puppet masters have acheived, leading the country into numerous BS / phoney wars, increased control of the population via CCTV and proposed ID cards – all in response to ‘crises’ engineered by the State…. where I heard all this before?? Oh yeah NAZI Germany, 1934, just after the Nazi’s burned down the Reichstag…

  • Mustapha Mond

    Anyone else thought that this was going to be about Hibs footy team?

    *sigh*

    Well it had right wing in the title!

  • Garibaldy

    P O’Neil,

    Your ignorance of what anarchism as a political philosophy is astounding. Same too with what the Marxist analysis of the nature of the state is.
    As for this bit, “Even Karl Marx didnt believe in the ideals of socialism, but embraced it as a way of destroying the political structure of western civilisation.”, did you forget to include the bit about his religious background?

  • P O’Neil

    Awwww, poor little Socialists cant see the jackboots for the trees.

    Marx’s family were originally Jewish, but after moving to Germany his father was forced to give up his faith and become a Prod in order to gain employment. Marx’s little (decontextualised) rant about religion being the opium of the masses, was a direct attack at Protestantism (Calvanism) and not religion in general, although its often decontextualised to imply that. As for Marx himself,he was Luciferian (read Marx and Satanism).

    Before you bang on about my lack of understanding of Marxist philosophy – I had to read that as part of my Oxford degree, so I am probably in a far superior position to comment on Marx than the rest of you ignorant, unwashed, masses.. Go back to picking turnips, its obviously what your best at.

  • The Truth

    “where people are free to express their own human sexuality”

    Dont force your immorality on me or my nation, you liberal butt fucker.

  • Garibaldy

    Gee P O’Neil, I’m so impressed that you have an Oxford degree, and that you studied Marx for it. What paper was it for? Theories of the State, where you study him for about two weeks, and knock out an essay at 2.30 in the morning after coming back from the pub perhaps?

    Perhaps you should go back and have another look at your notes on what Marx said about the state – and while you’re at it, take a look at the disputes in the First International and you might get a grasp of what anarchism is actually about.

    Maybe you could also deliver us some of your superior views on how it is that fascism has always drawn support from the right if it’s left-wing, and how its vision of society as an organic, living organism relates to conservative thought from, say, Edmund Burke.

    I’ll continue to pick potatoes (which played the role in Irish agriculture that turnips used to play in English) while I await your Oxonian revelations.

    By the way, the idea that Marx wanted to destroy western political civilisation because he was a Satanist rather than a Jew is a new one for me.

  • Garibaldy

    The Truth and Dougie,

    I assume you are Yanks given that you’re using the term ‘butt fucker’, something no self-respecting Irish (or British-Irish) person would ever use

  • The World’s Gone Mad

    P O’Neil – where exactly did you get your Oxford degree? The poly? It is a sad indictment of Oxbridge education if you are the result.

    You have obviously spent so much time studying Marx that you left no time to learn grammar, punctuation and spelling. Your level of written English would not be acceptable at 11-plus levels, never mind one of the greatest institutions in tertiary education.

    By the way – please see the appropriate use of the word ‘your’ above. Normally, I wouldn’t give a flying **** about someone’s spelling, but when somebody parades his educayshun as an example of his superiority then it is worth pointing out his flaws.

  • P O’Neil

    We are all aware of the Marxist / Socialist mantra of the poor down trodden masses being exploited by a ruthless oppressive State (blah, blah, blah), however, in this Socialist utopia there is still an oligarchy in control of resources and exerting force over the masses. Just like Lincoln’s claim that all men are equal, however, they failed to mention that we were all equally slaves and not freemen. Personally, I have as much interest in Marx as I do about the well being of the House of Windor (aka House of Guelph).

    Now, if we were to examine Russian Socialism (never was Communism) as an expression of Marxism, look what happened – population oppressed, murdered, tracked and controlled by a dictatorship who used gulags to deal with subversives. If we look at Nazi Germany as an expression of ‘Fascism’ Hitler was into oppressing, murdering, tracking and controlling the population as well as the use of concentration camps.

    Question, explain the difference – there is no difference. There reason there is no difference is because in many respects Hitler and Stalin were reading off the same socialist song sheet. The reason there was now real difference, other than rhetoric, is because they were both left wing socialists (in reality both Russia and Nazi Germany were controlled by Britain).

    No matter how you want to dress it up, Socialism is a failed social experiment, and one that is still being forced on us.

  • in reality both Russia and Nazi Germany were controlled by Britain

    WTF? It appears the asylum in Oxford has begun handing out degrees.

  • P O’Neil

    I have no idea why I even bother posting here, considering I have to deal with an ignorant, dumbed-down population. Your little attacks on my mental state etc, insted of either researching or trying to refute what I have said, is the atypical profiled response of an ignorant, scared and preconditioned population – in fact the levels of ignorance expressed here, I would think that you are all Brits.

    At least after trying to converse with you sheeple I finally understand why the Elite wants to reduce the population by 80%, although in your cases it would be not great loss. If it weren’t for the fact that I have to live on this Island, I’d be more than happy to sit back and watch you all drown in your own ignorance.

    I’ll see you al in hell, or a Brit concentration camp, whatever comes first.

  • Rory

    As for Marx himself,he was Luciferian

    The divil he was, do you say? How did you find out? Was it in The Da Vinci Code?? I must have missed that bit. Sloppy research on my part. It’s no wonder then that he appeals to fallen angels like me.

    If the Nazis and the Soviets were the same isn’t then proper to assume that if Socialists are “Butt-fuckers” as you say and they wear trousers and eat bread and you Right Catholic zealots wear trousers and eat bread you must be fond of a bit of botty banging yourselves by your own logic. But you are sooo butch ….and I do like you.

  • Garibaldy

    P O’Neil,

    We have no idea why you even bother posting here either. Although please continue to do so. I’ve had a great laugh because of this thread.

    If however, you would like to make a reasoned argument with evidence as to how Britain controlled the USSR and Hitler’s Germany, I’d be more than happy to read it.

    But on the masses being exploited by the state, I think what you meant to say was that in Marx’ view the state is an instrument that the ruling class that exploits the proletariat uses to protect its oppressive social and economic system. The state does not exploit the proletariat itself. But please feel free to dazzle us with more of your insights into political philosophy. As I’ve said, I’d like to hear your take on the relationship between conservative thought since the French Revolution and fascism, particularly corporatist thought.

  • Dougie

    We sre speaking of Gerry McGough and a few other Catholics. Some militancy there might be ok. The Pope should have said more about the killings by the “socialist” state of fascist, sectarian Israel in Lebanon. Whose side was fascist Greece on in WW2? How about Portugal? How about Pinochet’s Chile? And as for the USA, the right wong Republican talk radio show hosts cal the right wing Democrats left wingers.

    Garibaldy: As the butt fucking fraternity is international and very eclectic in its tastes, I hope you agree butt fuck is the appropriate temrinology. Though I am sure the cloistered walls of Oxbridge use more refined phrases to sing songs to sodomy.

    Who pays Searchlight? MI5?

    On the subject of buttfucking and Lebanon: I thought David Norris was very good to speak up on behalf of the victims of Nazi Israel. How stands it with his Israeli boyfriend now? David Norris is an addition to Ireland. MI5/Searchlight is not.

  • Garibaldy

    Dougie,

    I shall never agree that ‘butt’ is the appropriate word for a non-American to use for someone’s ass/arse/hole/backside/derriere etc, all of which are acceptable. And we have so many phrases for sodomy that any attempt to copy the Americans is just indicative of unimaginative thinking that fails to appreciate the beauty and diversity of our local expressions.

  • Seanf

    Hi Folks, came accross this discussion and it would appear that it started off slagging the AOH although no one seems to be a member or know much about the AOH. I am a member of the AOH and would make a few comments which I hope you will read. Firstly the AOH is not Right Wing or Fascist. We are a single identity group whcih believes in and supports the Catholic faith. That makes us no different from many other catholic groups and individuals. We are also an Irish Organisation and Nationalist although we do not support or promote violence. We have not been infiltrated or taken over either by Sinn Fein or any other political entity or group. The AOH continues to grow in strength and numbers accross the country and abroad. As for our friend Mr. McGeogh, he is what may be termed a Johnny Come Lately and is a recent member of the AOH. However the AOH has been about for many hundreds of years in various guises and forms and irrespective of whatever noises Mr. McGeogh makes in public please be assured that he does not represent the AOH in ANY shape or form. I have heard that he intends to turn the AOH, the largest and oldest Catholic Irish Organisation in the world, into, and I hope I quote this correctly, Catholic Stormtroopers. The AOH have no intention of becoming Catholic Stormtroopers, whatever that image conjures up. The AOH stand for Faith and Fatherland, for Friendship Unity and True Christian Charity. We do have positions on certain issues, what group doesn’t? Mr. McGeogh comes from a single issue background and is apparently intent on hijacking the AOH to further the aims of this issue it seems. That will not and cannot happen, how little he and those who report his antics know of the AOH. So rest easy all you who worry about people like Mr. McGeogh. If you are interested in the AOH or finding out more about this fine organisation and its traditions or where it stands on any issue all you have to do is write to us at AOH, Board of Erin, 23 Foyle St. Derry. We are a very open organisation and also very democratic. Our membership is young and old, male and female, urban amd rural and represents a wide collection of political thought. However the AOH as an organisation is NOT Republican, it is NOT Sectarian, it is NOT Right Wing etc etc . So anything you want to know just ask…. we have nothing to hide. We continue to work as we always do…. to benefit other people and our members. In our Motto Seanf

  • Bar stool politician.

    I am one of a group of ‘experts’ that meet weekly in our local pub to sort out parochial, national and world affairs. No agreements are reached until a subject has been debated for more than two hours.
    Last night during discussions one member kept referring to Sinn Fein as ‘The Cuckoos’ or ‘The Cuckoo Party’. This was during the debate on Sinn Fein hijacking practically every institution, building and cause that its believes can be used to further its cause.
    Sinn Fein has slipped in quietly to a number of establishments in a pre-planned manner, and took over the nest unnoticed. Like the Cuckoo it laid its egg and the nest for some clubs the rest is history. The original dwellers in the nest have been dumped overboard one at a time until there is only one occupant remaining – Sinn Fein.
    Our member is quite serious when referring to the Shinners as The Cuckoos and there was broad agreement within our group for his thinking. There was no agreement on the opinion of one other member who went on to claim that the Provos have rejected the phoenix in favour of the cuckoo and that during the recent takeover of Casement Park Sinn Fein were seen to release a dozen cuckoos during their political rally.
    Bar stool politician,

  • Jenny Wren

    Sinn Fein or as Bar stool politician calls them ‘The Cuckoos’ is all right by me in fact it is an excellent analogy but if only we had to listen to them from April to June how much better we would be. Having to listen to The Cuckoos of SF every day, week and month of the year makes one just wish they would, like the other cuckoos, leave us alone for nine or ten months each year.
    Jenny Wren.

  • Disillusioned Hib.

    The AOH having Sinn Fein members within its ranks is a contradiction in itself. How can those that fail to adapt a pro-life stance be accepted into an Order that is so anti-abortion?
    Fear of The Cuckoos as expressed elsewhere in the blogs is obviously the reason. Is there no one strong enough within the AOH to say you either accept our Order’s Catholic ethos or you leave immediately? Methinks that there will be no AOH in ten or fifteen years from now if The Cuckoos are allowed to take over.
    Disillusioned Hib.

  • Seanf

    Hi Disilusioned Hib. I fear that those who do not belong to our organisation, do not understand how we work. We are first and foremost Hibernians and then whatever else we are. Sure there are members of Sinn Fein in the AOH, just as there are members of almost every other party. If you understand the Hibernians you will understand the following. A Hibernian is a Hibernian first and foremost. None of us are perfect human beings but we do try our best and we do this by living our lives as Hibernians. Those Hibernians who belong to other groups are also Hibernians First and Foremost. The great thing about the Hibernians is that we are open and democratic. We can discuss anything and once a conclusion is reached we all abide by it, that is the Hibernian way, even if you argue against something, once an agreement has been reached we all work with it. Debate and discussion is the only way forward in any situation, as is accepting the majority decision and working with it. There is no one group in the Hibernians, such as Sinn Fein members – and I use this example only because this is the topic of discussion – who can possibly overtake the organisation. This is NOT possible. Why not? Because of our structure. Local Divisions, County Boards, the Ulster Provincial Board all work within the rules of the organisation as do the Board of Erin. I as an ordinary member can have any issue or proposal raised right up to the Board of Erin at National Level. Additionally, during Convention, proposals and rules changes are put forward. These again are discussed at local, county and provincial level prior to convention. The voting system would require any one “group” such as Sinn Fein or others (Even an AOH Division) to infiltrate and control over half of the organisation in order to take over the organisation. This is entirely impossible and I am sure that groups such as Sinn Fein and others are quite aware of this. The AOH is an organisation which has existed for many hundreds of years as previously stated, in some form or other. We as an organisation, although I am not 500 years old myself, have faced many trials and tribulations during this time and therefore our structure, rules and ways of working have been designed no doubt so as to enable the AOH to continue to function for many years to come, free from the influence of those on the outside wishing to come in. Further I would speak to your disillusionment. If for some reason you feel disillusioned approach the National President or National Board and seek some advice, help or support. You may be amazed at what is available. There are many changes happening within the organisation on a constant basis as we continue to grow and develope. these developments and changes will safe guard the AOH just as our forefathers did in years past. Our current National Board are a very conscientious, hard working and dedicated team of TRUE HIBERNIANS who will steer our noble organisation on the correct path and who will bring back some of our traditions which have maybe been put aside during recent decades. Our organisation continues to grow and our organisation will not fall under the influence of ANY outside group who seek to use us for their own ends. As stated our organisation and structure does not allow for that to happen. As for Sinn Fein Cuckoos, I have seen this within the Community and other sectors and yes it does happen and how jealous are the SDLP and the DUP etc. The AOH are made of stronger and sterner stuff and I would suggest, knowing some people in Sinn Fein, that we are the last group they would be interested in…. Lets just say they tried once and failed….. and learnt the lesson…. I hope this rambling makes some form of sense…. In regard to the next 10 or 15 years in the future of the Hibernians: My own Division is bringing in new members EVERY week. Our age profile int he last 5 years or so has gotten younger and I know that this is the situation in other parts of the country, particularly in the 6 counties. Other Divisions will fall by the wayside but that is life. The only way to continue to grow is to practice our traditions and seek out those who will be like us, Hibernians First and Foremost and bring them into the organisation. In Our Motto Seanf

  • Garibaldy

    Sean F,

    Just out of curiosity, on what grounds are you saying the AOH is 500 years old?

  • Another disillusioned AOH Member.

    I share sentiment of disillusioned AOH Member rather than that of Seanf whom I note made no contribution to the abortion debate. Claims that the AOH is strong enough to stand alone and against takeover are regrettably not true in all areas. The Division that I am a now non-attending paid up member was just that until The Cuckoos moved in unnoticed. Before we knew what was happening our AOH Hall was taken over and was being used by SF for political rallies and pre-election events.
    I could go on but I think it’s too late – for my division it is anyway. And for the record I have no political ties, my one and only love was the AOH but that has been taken from me.
    Also disillusioned.

  • seanf

    Hi again folks: Three issues to address here. Lets take Abortion. The AOH and I myself by the way are totally against abortion. Short and sweet because you do not need to say anymore than that. As for Sinn Fein or any other group taking over an AOH Hall. If the Division was unable to prevent this I would suggest that the matter be raised with the County and National Boards. I would be most interested in finding out more about this. I have an inkling that i may know a little about this and if so the problem is with the lease and sub lease of premises which should never have been leased in the first place perhaps. However if the Member (and you are still a member if you continue to pay your dues) wants to contact me about this direct I will endeavour to make this possible. I like him share Hibernianism as my first love. All is not lost and this situation can possibly be rectified. So an offer is there if the Brother Member wishes to take it up. Lastly, the grounds on which I claim the AOH to be approx. 500 years old in some shape or form is as follows: The AOH trace its roots back to approx 1565. This is the first time that we know of a similar combination working on behalf of the Catholic Community in Ireland. It was not however until 1640s when the Defenders came into being that similarities such as motto, Friendship Unity & True Christian Chairty first appeared in open as did the purpose of Faith & Fatherland. Both are still used today, purpose and motto. The Rebellion of 1641 grew from the combinations of the late 1500s & the Defenders and led to the removal of all vestiges of English power and rule in 3 provinces and in 1642 to the Confederation of Kilkenny. The Defenders were part of the Confederation and later joined with the Whiteboys and became commonly known as Ribbonmen.Ribbonism continued through 1745 when the right to practice public Catholic worship was granted to May 1795 when the United Irishmen were intorduced and the Ribbonmen played their part in 1798. In 1825 the organisation changed its name to St. Patrick’s Boys (St. Patricks Fraternal Society) in 1836 they give leave for exiled and emigrated members in America to call themselves AOH. In Ireland the 1904 convention was attended by Defenders, St. Pats Boys and Hibernians. AOH in America paid dues annually to the AOH in Ireland until 1898. In 1908 the AOH under the Board of Erin registered as a Friendly Society. There are obvious reasons for name changes and secrecy down through the ages. Any questions please just ask. In our motto Seanf