Differential treatment for Ombudsman’s son?

The youngest son of Nuala O’Loan, Kieran, received a police caution (subd reqd) for verbal and sectarian abuse of police officers at an anti-parades protest in Ballymena. Ian Paisley Jnr will ask the Chief Constable tomorrow why the required procedure of reporting all sectarian and racial remarks to the Public Prosecution Service for consideration for prosecution were not followed.

  • tra g

    Fair play to the PSNI for swift action taken in cautioning Kieran O’Loan for verbal abusing bandsmen

    Any chance that our esteemed and impartial police force might also possibly try to apprehend the loyalist sectarian atackers of Damian O’Loan who was savagely beaten with iron bars, resulting in severe injuries.

    No? thought not.

    I can’t recall Ian Og (or Nigel Dodds) bleating about inadequate police action taken in relation to this significantly more serious incident.
    Funny that…….

  • willowfield

    Is there evidence upon which the police might act?

  • tra g

    ‘Is there evidence upon which the police might act?’

    I’m sure that’s the very question Ian Og wil be asking the Chief Constable when he asks for an update on the assault investigation in addition to raising his concerns over the Ballymena incident.
    Won’t he?

  • willowfield

    I’ll take that as a “no”.

  • Rory

    What the hell is “verbal and sectarian abuse of police officers” ? What form did the sectarian abuse take if it was not verbal? How can any abuse of a a police officer be described as “sectarian”? A police officer by virtue of the office is, I trust, outside of sectarian allegiance and could not possibly therefore be abused such. And of course, why was the cautioning procedure of a young person, with all its requirements and assurances of confidentiality in return for acceptance of the caution, made public? Surely it could not have happened because of a leak by sectarian elements within the police force?

    Questions to consider for all wishing a fair deal in any society, I should have thought.

  • tra g

    I’ll take it as a no as well in regard to the prospect of wee Ian raising the issue wth the Chief Constable tomorrow as well…..

  • inuit_goddess

    What a triumph for our over-manned, over-funded police “service”. Taking down the Ombudsman’s son. Quite the coup. Score one for the good aul’ boys.

    I’ve been on plenty of protests. Abuse directed at cops is very much a given on such occasions. Like the time they stopped us getting near Hillsborough when the terrorist murderer George W Bush stopped by.

    Criminal prosecution for slagging off the cops?

    Gimme a break…

  • inuit_goddess

    Further, the right of any UK Citizen to tell the cops precisely what they think of them is surely sacrosanct in any democracy?

    We pay their feckin’ wages after all… yet they demand to be treated like oh-so-sensitive demigods who must not be insulted in any way?

    Gimme a break…

  • inuit_goddess

    Further when has Ian B*g*t Junior ever been on record as calling for increased resources to protect the beleagured nationalist minority in his own home town of Ballymena???

    Anyone want to quote me a quote?

    Nah, didn’t think so….

    His hypocrisy beggars belief but then again i guess that’s what gets him re-elected.

  • tra g

    It would certainly seem that a police source has readily leaked detail of the caution of O’loan’s son.

    Strange that no information, official or otherwise, is filtering through on the progress of the assault investigation.

    We need to be told in order to allay genuine concerns, as held by Willow field amongst others, on the lack of progress in this matter.

    no arrests, no charges, no surprise there then…

  • Keith M

    O’Loan should consider her position after this incident. There’s an old phrase that the seeds don’t fall far from the tree and is her job interfering with justice? She certainly has questions to answer.

  • Garibaldy

    Keith,

    Should people be held responsible for their relatives? Say Eilis O’Hanlon for her sister? Or is this a silly proposition?

  • Rory

    There’s an old phrase that the seeds don’t fall far from the tree

    I seem to remember some difficulties with the children of other public figures. A young man found by police drunk and incapable in central London; the terrible sadness of the life and death of Sarah Churchill, (not to mention the more recent novels of another leader’s daughter closer to home).

    I do trust, Keith M, that all your delightful children are model citizens of impeccable judgement (and judgementalism, when it suits) as is their good father.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Fair play to the PSNI for swift action taken in cautioning Kieran O’Loan for verbal abusing bandsmen

    Any chance that our esteemed and impartial police force might also possibly try to apprehend the loyalist sectarian atackers of Damian O’Loan who was savagely beaten with iron bars, resulting in severe injuries.

    No? thought not.

    I can’t recall Ian Og (or Nigel Dodds) bleating about inadequate police action taken in relation to this significantly more serious incident.
    Funny that…….

    Posted by tra g on Aug 13, 2006 @ 05:04 PM

    So two wrongs make a right? Is Damian another son of Nuala O’Loan? If so it proves that slabbering must run in the family – Declan, Nuala and Kieran are regular practitioners. I’m not condoning it but you don’t get a beating for nothing, let’s be honest!
    Kieran O’Loan’s case should have been reported to the PPS and O’Loan’s office to be subjected to the same sort of inquiry that they seem to enjoy so much.

  • Fanny

    And there it is, ladies and gentlemen: the genuine voice of “loyalism” with its attendant rationalization of mindless, sectarian violence:

    “I’m not condoning it but you don’t get a beating for nothing, let’s be honest!”

    He’s a troll, right? Say he’s a troll …. please.

  • tra g

    ‘I’m not condoning it but you don’t get a beating for nothing, let’s be honest!

    Posted by Concerned Loyalist’

    Yep, hands up C.L.- the guy was certainly asking for it. He was a catholic walking home on his own who had the cheek to walk along a road perceived to be in a ‘protestant/loyalist’ area.
    Getting a severe beating by 4 iron-bar wielding sectarian thugs for his ‘crime’ must be your kind of justice ,eh CL?

  • 50%+

    “is there evidence upon which the police might act”
    Get a grip – he’s a taig in Ballymena.
    He was AWC.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    “He was AWC”…What? I don’t understand this acronym.

    “He’s a troll, right? Say he’s a troll …. please.”

    An accusation that I’ve denied before and continue to deny. I am a progressive loyalist. I support the work of the Ulster Political Research Group and may become involved in some capacity. I am not ashamed that in doing so I would be supporting the group that gives political analysis to the UDA, because without the UDA on board there can be no peace process. The consolidation of peace in Ulster and a lasting settlement of our differences with each other is something I aspire to, not going out and “beating the fuck outa taigs” or burning them out.

    “Getting a severe beating by 4 iron-bar wielding sectarian thugs for his ‘crime’ must be your kind of justice ,eh CL?”

    No, but they must have had a run-in with him at some point for the ferocity of the attack, which I why I suggested he might have been mouthing off to his attackers previously, just like his sectarian brother Kieran – after all sectarianism runs in the family. Almost every time Declan opens his mouth he’s accusing Ballymena Protestants of sectarianism – just yesterday he said the petrol-bomb attack on a family home in Ballyloughan Park was sectarian. How exactly can he say that definitively? Does he work for MI5 and has access to intelligence reports? His anti-Protestant diatribes let slip his mask and show him to be extremely prejudiced and unquestionably one-eyed and narrow-minded, with regards to the Protestant community in Ulster.

  • Reader

    inuit_goddess: Further, the right of any UK Citizen to tell the cops precisely what they think of them is surely sacrosanct in any democracy?
    Cops are citizens too. And therefore cops have as many rights as you and I do. Do you want to outline what all of our rights are in the face of verbal abuse?

  • Rory

    Ah jest knowed all us Missisippi coloured boys was all dead prejudiced and wrong to suggest them good ol’ boys was a lynchin’ and a burnin’ ussuns and rapin’ our girl childrin’ jest fer fun. Why they wus jest naturally bein’ theyselves and promotin’ democracy best they knew how – like decent Christian folks do.

    Dr King was jest a tech uppity kinda coloured man and we didn’t know no better at the time. Once he got his ass shot off we jest knowed he was talkin’ no good.

  • B e m us ed

    Paisley is (for once in his sad, bitter little life) absolutely right in raising this with the board. Any suggestion that O’Loan has in any way abused her position requires full investigation.

    P.S. – found this on YOUTUBE – what a delightful display of ‘culture’….

  • tra g

    ‘No , but they must have had a run-in with him at some point for the ferocity of the attack, which I why I suggested he might have been mouthing off to his attackers previously.’

    To borrow your own accusation from your earlier posting, C.L.-‘how can you say that definitivley?’

    For someone who prides himself as a progressive loyalist, your views on this attack fall a good few yards short of an unequivical condemnation.

  • Keith M

    Rory, well done, comment 13 on this thread is the best bit of Whatabouary I’ve seen here in a long time.

    Garibaldy “Should people be held responsible for their relatives?”. If they are adults no, if they are children yes. I am a staunch believer in strong and accoutable parenting.

  • Garibaldy

    I believe the person involved is 18, according to the story anyway. Thus even by your own standards, which I do not accept, then Nuala O’Loan bears no respsonsibility.

    The only way this should impact on her is if it is proven that she interfered. If however, some cop(s) decided not to arrest him because of whon he was, that’s their fault. Of course, it’s quite possible they sought not to inflame a situation before a march

  • Rory

    I am a staunch believer in strong and accoutable parenting.

    I’ll just bet you are, Keith. I guessed that “being staunch” might seem important in your world. I hope this may not lead to problems in life with your own children. But I suppose if it does you can always beat them into submission. I’ve always been too much of a bleeding heart liberal to attempt that method with my own children.

    No wonder the world is going the way it is, what?

  • fair_deal

    tra g

    “for verbal abusing bandsmen”

    He didnt verbally abuse bandsmen. His abuse was directed at the police, the parade hadn’t even started.

    rory

    It isn’t who is in receipt of the use of the abuse that makes it sectarian but what was contained within it ie Mel Gibson made anti-Jewish remarks regardless of the fact the officer wasn’t Jewish.

    verbal abuse e.g. you are a c**t
    sectarian abuse e.g. you are a orange/fenian b*****d

  • tra g

    Point taken Fair Deal-However my argument remains that undue weight is being to this incidence of verbal abuse at the expense of the very serious and violent assault perpetrated against the elder son.

  • fair_deal

    inuit goddess

    “Further when has Ian B*g*t Junior ever been on record as calling for increased resources to protect the beleagured nationalist minority in his own home town of Ballymena???”

    He called for extra resources during the attacks last year
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4158604.stm

  • 50%+

    AWC – acting while catholic.

  • fair_deal

    tra g

    I would be pretty sure that a lot more police time has gone into the assault than the caution.

    Also the caution is the detail, the bigger question is have the PSNI tried to do a “favour” for the person charged with investigating them?

  • Fanny

    Keith M posted: “There’s an old phrase that the seeds don’t fall far from the tree…”

    Indeed there is, and it couldn’t be more apt in the case of Ian Paisley jr. How extraordinary to “inherit” your father’s warped Weltanschauung and all his prejudices and seemingly not be able to think for yourself. Tragic.

    What must it have been like for the lad to grow up toeing the line. Not knowing the fun of teenage rebellion. Jesus Christ, if I thought I’d turned into a clone of my mother I’d top myself.

    (Sorry, Mum, nothing personal. I know you wouldn’t like such a daughter either, and quite right.)

  • tra g

    ‘I would be pretty sure that a lot more police time has gone into the assault than the caution’

    It would be fully expected that any credible police force would devote more time and effort to resolving the more serious crime. I am sure it is mere coincidence that has resulted in the lesser offender being caught first.
    In relation to your reference concerning ‘the bigger picture’ the absence of a positive outcome to the more serious case would suggest that the PSNI are in no big hurry to do the ombudsman ‘a favour’ in the way you imply.
    My reference to imbalance is particularly directed at certain unionist politicians. However in the coming days, it will be interesting to see how much media attention is given to the ‘caution’ story at the expense of the more serious assault case.

  • Reader

    tra g: I am sure it is mere coincidence that has resulted in the lesser offender being caught first.
    Well, I suspect that since the lesser offence was committed in front of a number of police witnesses, in broad daylight, it was very easy to solve.

  • Rory

    Well, I suspect that since the lesser offence was committed in front of a number of police witnesses

    No offence was committed in law. The police by virtue of the cautioning procedure accept that as (supposedly with some relief) does the person cautioned. That is the contrary condition of the cautioning procedure, which I would sometimes (perhaps many times) urge those being bullied by police not to acquiesce in. It often means the cops simply do not have the evidence to sustain a charge. It is a police procedure rather more based on the ethos of Texas Hold ‘Em poker games than any idea of social justice.

  • Aidan

    If so it proves that slabbering must run in the family – Declan, Nuala and Kieran are regular practitioners. I’m not condoning it but you don’t get a beating for nothing, let’s be honest!

    Great – you just legitimized any beating given out to an individual. Of course you’re right, he must have deserved it!

    I’ll be sure to keep your words in mind the next time some ‘slabber’ looks at me the wrong way.

  • Reader

    Rory: No offence was committed in law.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_caution
    Just because a caution isn’t a conviction, doesn’t mean there was no offence. A previous caution can be taken into account in court.

  • Jo

    “you don’t get a beating for nothing, let’s be honest!”

    Gawd help us, someone says the like of that and goes on to call themselves a “progressive Loyalist”? Beating the cr*p out of someone for sectarian reasons may be “progress” from Loughinisland or Greysteel, but thats about it.

    I think a retraction would be more indicative of “progress.”

  • Peter Brown

    “beleagured nationalist minority in his own home town of Ballymena”

    Two points – let’s not forget the beleaguered nationalist minority is proportionately doling out more than it is receiving according to PSNI stats and Ballymena is not IPJ’s home town…

  • TAFKABO

    Isn’t the acceptance of a caution tacit admission of guilt?

  • Jo

    “proportionately doling out more than it is receiving”

    Oh, so they do have something in common with the Israelis then 🙂

  • TAFKABO

    Having said that. Whilst there can be no excuse for assaulting (verbally or otherwise) those trying to uphold the law, when it comes to the bandmen I’d be willing to take mitigating factors into consideration.
    Given what happened to his brother, this young man may have percieved the bandsmen as belonging to the same group of people that administered the beating, and he reacted badly in the heat of the moment. It doesn’t make it right, but I’m still more willing to try and understand his point of view.

  • Daisy

    Will CL receive a ‘card’ by the mods for his atrocious comments over the beating received? Does you share the same view on the recent murder of a 15 year old boy in Ballymena?

    Such abhorrent, nasty, insidious comments say more about you, CL, than thos you say them against. If you are representative of the types who support the UPRG, then we’re sunk.

  • Daisy

    I could’ve sworn I posted this before, but it’s disappeared.

    Will CL be shown a card for what he said above? I find his insidious comments offensive in the extreme. Of course, they say more about him than about the young man he’s talking about, but still, if he’s representative of thinking in the UPRG, then we’re sunk if they ever become a credible group.

  • Daisy

    Oops. Don’t know what happened there.

  • PeterBrown

    TAFKABO

    Problem is the bandsmen were out of earshot as the parade hadn’t started yet so no mitigating factors and yes a formal caution can only be administered when guilt is accepted…

  • Alan Law

    What a load of nonsense?

    Fair play to the lad for getting collared for swearing, surely we should be able to move on from such over zealous policing, maybe he should have abducted a mother, murdered her and atleast be guaranteed a 20 year head start, I guess its what you might class as progress in policing…years ago it might have been a ‘plastic bullet’…

  • PeterBrown

    “They may well have attacked me because they thought I was a Catholic, but I don’t think they would need any great motivation for it,”

    tra g should check out the interview with O’Loan Senior on the BBC website where he states that he does not necessarily believe the attack on him was sectarian – time to revise most of your posts to this thread now that the facts are available?

  • Aidan

    Peter, I don’t see how any of tra g’s statements are negated by the young fella’s statement that the attack may well have – but not definitely – been sectarian?

  • tra g

    ‘tra g should check out the interview with O’Loan Senior on the BBC website where he states that he does not necessarily believe the attack on him was sectarian – time to revise most of your posts to this thread now that the facts are available?’

    Indeed Aidan-methinks that this was clearly wishful thinking on Pete’s part-therefore no revision required by me-we’ll leave the revisionism to your esteemed self, Pedro.

  • Peter Brown

    Any chance that our esteemed and impartial police force might also possibly try to apprehend the loyalist sectarian atackers of Damian O’Loan who was savagely beaten with iron bars, resulting in severe injuries.

    Yep, hands up C.L.- the guy was certainly asking for it. He was a catholic walking home on his own who had the cheek to walk along a road perceived to be in a ‘protestant/loyalist’ area.
    Getting a severe beating by 4 iron-bar wielding sectarian thugs for his ‘crime’ must be your kind of justice ,eh CL?

    Now given that the victim (and he undoubtedly is a victim no matter what CL says) doesn’t actually support the premise from which both these posts are made are you still standing over them? Never let the facts get in the way of a goood MOPE story…..

  • TRA G

    ‘They knew I was a Catholic: I was an appropriate target’ – Almost six weeks after a son of Police Ombudsman Nuala O’Loan was viciously attacked at a north Belfast interface, the young victim speaks to Irish News chief reporter Sharon O’Neill(July 24th)

    Damian tried to plead with his attackers, and as he did so gave a clear indication of his religion.

    “I said to them ‘I just live here, I am just going home now. I live in the Ardoyne,'” he said.

    “Presumably that was all they needed to hear.

    “One of them behind me hit me first, on the head, knocked me out. I was unconscious for the rest of it.’

    PETE, IN LIGHT OF THE ABOVE, PLEASE GET A LIFE