Asleep at the wheel?

Raymond McCord Snr (and confrmed by Slyvia Hermon) is furious that Secretary of State Peter Hain started to nod off during their meeting to discuss the murder of his son.

  • soapy

    mccord should have punched him.

  • Disgusting. Absolutely sickening. Sadly typical of Hain’s attitudes to the opinions of ordinary people in Northern Ireland. Let’s face it unless you’re holding a gun he’s not interested.

  • bertie

    Says it all!

  • maura

    about the murder of a young man by an agent of the state!

    There is many facets of this case that are despicable, just like in all the cases of state involvement in the murder of its citizens.
    What does this ‘dozing off’say about the attitude of the British, to state sponsered murder within both communities in Northern Ireland. Is it boring for them?

  • Fraggle

    ……and you unionists are responsible for having these people in charge…..

  • bertie

    It is typical of the interest in victims generally.

  • heck

    I remember Hain from his young liberal days. It’s a shame how he turned out. He use to have principles.

  • Fanny

    “It’s a shame how he turned out.”

    Power corrupts.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Fraggle,
    Your point didn’t really need to be made. It could have been taken for granted for many of us. It will probably ruin this thread.

    Perhaps this story speaks for itself without any need for comments from any of us?

  • Fanny

    Hain is a disaster. Try googling “Peter Hain” and “Cymru” to find out what our Welsh cousins think of him. You’ll turn up stuff like:

    “Peter Hain: Irish Sea commuter

    “The Western Mail is not very happy that Peter Hain will be dividing his time as Secretary of State for both Northern Ireland and Wales.

    “Nor is Plaid Cymru’s Helen Mary Jones:

    “In the previous government, Peter Hain was part-time Secretary of State for Wales, combined with his duties as Leader of the Commons. Now we have the unlikely and unfair combination of Northern Ireland Secretary and Secretary of State for Wales.”

    So that makes TWO disgruntled UK communities….

  • Fraggle

    OC, I can make any comments I like within Mick’s rules.

    Who else besides unionists is responsible for having whatever uninterested politician the dominant british party choose to foist upon us in charge. Unionists are responsible for the present setup, live with it.

  • Dave

    I also understand the feelings Mr Mccord has in relation to (hain) nodding off during the debate corcenring the murder of his son, However, it is well known within the circles of those who job it is to teach or instruct others in or on any subject matter that should a member of the audience start the process of nodding off,the blame for such an event must be laid at the feet or the instructor/teacher and not the individual who is (nodding off). Maybe Mr Hain was bored becaused he already knows that the subject matter (the murder of Mr McCord son, is in fact going no further than it already has, hence time for a sleep.

    A public apology to the McCord family is in order.

    I wonder if Hain would dare fall asleep in front of my Dad? i’m sure hain would have awoken with a start.

  • gareth mccord

    fraggle
    mr mccord is a unionist like alot of protestants but would be the first to say that the british government and the current politicians have failed everyone in n.ireland which makes your point a bit of a joke . Next you will be saying that all cathoilcs want the ira to rule given the fact of sinn fein domanance in nationalist voters.

  • bertie

    Hain is not unionists fault, because for something to be your fault, you have to be at fault. There is no fault in being either unionist or nationalist and so what happend as a result of you espousing either is not your “fault”.

    Anyway back to the thread, it must have been distressing in the extreme for Mc Cord to have been treated in this way. It probably didn’t tell him anything that he didn’t already know but still hard to take such direct proof.

  • gareth mccord

    DAVE
    do you know something that we dont (“the murder of mr mccords son,is fact going no further than it already has,hence time for sleep.”)

  • T.Ruth

    Heck
    I must sympathise with Mr.McCord-such behaviour from a Secretary of State in any other jurisdiction would inevitably require the resignation of the person involved.It is all the more reprehensible given the enormity of the crime under consideration- Alleged State collusion with Loyalist murderers in the murder of the man’s son.

    I was a student in the early sixties and remember Hain very well. He was around the same time as Tariq Ali and a lot of other well educated rabble rousers trying to emulate student activist groups in France and Germany.Most of these guys if you check them out have long had well paid establishment jobs and are well entrenched in the “system” especially in the media and government.

    Hain’s principles, whatever you perceived them to be at the time have clearly changed.I am reminded of “A man for All Seasons”, when Sir Thomas More questions Sir Richard Rich as to the cost of his perjury to be greeted with the answer that Rich had been appointed Lord Lieutenant of Wales.This is a play worth reading or watching-it has timeless messages.

    Peoples’Democracy in Northern Ireland played a big part in contributing to political instability here at the time by its failure to address Protestant working class concerns and thus appearing to Unionists to be a branch of the Republican movement using any available stick to beat the Prods.I bet there are still many Catholics of that and succeeding generations who believe that they were somehow disenfranchised in Stormont or Westminster elections.
    I do however admire people like Eammon McCann who was then a young student activist.He has stuck to his principles unlike many others who were involved in Peoples’ Democracy, and I respect him for that to this day, while remaining politically opposed to much of his philosophy.
    T.Ruth

  • Fraggle

    Gareth McCord, kindly don’t put words into my mouth.

    Bertie, same to you. You introduced the word ‘fault’ to the discussion, not me.

  • gareth mccord

    i take it you would agree then or did you forget to respond?

  • Dave

    gareth.

    A good point and know i don’t know more than others.

    Should you take the time to read (Again)my post, I from an instrutor point of view either Hain doesn’t want to know hence he is bored, (instructors fault) or else hain knows exactley what is to happen in relation to this murder hence he is bored or uninterested.again this is the fault of the instructor. clear? if not that is my fault agreed? good.

  • Fraggle

    What am I supposed to be agreeing with Gareth?

  • bertie

    Fraggle, my mistake to use the word fault. the arguememnt is unaffected. Unionists are not responsible for the like of Hain being in charge, that is a bad thing and we only bear any responsibility for the bad thing if we have done a bad thing. The responsibility for Hain in Hain himself and the Prime Minister for appointing him.

  • gareth mccord

    fraggle
    that not all unionists are to blame in fact most arent. aswell as most catholics about sinn feins rise in power

  • Fraggle

    Bertie, who chooses to have the British Prime Minister in charge of us?

    Gareth, come back when you’ve sorted out exactly what you’re trying to say.

  • gareth mccord

    fraggle
    are you on the rock?

  • bertie

    Fraggle

    the majority in London chose to retain the Union, but we are not responsible for Hain. Something that someone choses to do to us does not mean that we are responsible for it.

    But back to the topic, which is about this dreadfully unprofessional behavour on the part of Hain.

  • Cynic

    Some of this is like a kindergarten class full of 5 year olds. Reminds me of the theme of ‘Give my Head Peace’…”he says thats he says that….”.

  • heck

    T.Ruth

    I agree with you to a certain extent. Hain did seem to me, in those days, to be a leading figure in opposition to the racist south african government and I had a lot of admiration for him. I even sympathized with him when the intelligence services tried to frame him for a bank robbery(sound familiar peter!!!) Similary patricia hewitt and harriet harman (sp?) seemed to me to be leading advocates of civil liberties and I admired them. All of them sold out to sit at the feet of Honest Tony. (God even Honest Tony was a member of CND)

    what is it about the parliamentary labour party that people lose their spine, their b***s and their principles when the join?

  • gareth mccord

    CYNIC
    relax and join in the craic its not all serious

  • Garibaldy

    Heck,

    you’re assuming they weren’t pretending to have these things in the first place.

  • Penelope

    inexcusable!!!

    I agree w/ posts #1 thru 4…post 5 starts to drag the thread down to, as Cynic so eloquently put it, a kindergarten squabble 🙂

    I think we all agree it’s insulting… for any politician of any stripe… all this other *well it’s your goverment so its your fault* stuff is just being argumentative

  • middle-class taig

    Penelope

    I think Fraggle’s point is that we could rid ourselves once and for all of these disinterested, self-absorbed, colonial execu-tourists if the two main unionist parties would do the decent thing and agree to share power with the representatives of their neighbours. Whether that would help MrMcCord is another thing entirely. It’s hard to see any of the current crop of unionist politicians lifting a finger to stop PSNI or the British Army running criminal or sectarian thugs as agents.

    Bertie

    The unionist community is at fault. It is refusing to share power. if it stopped doing so, we’d have our own government of local people within weeks.

  • Nevin

    Nodding off will be discussed on the Nolan Show on Radio Ulster this morning.

  • bertie

    mct

    Stopping SF (or even PUP, if that was a real damger) being in government is not a fault, indeed permitting it would be.

  • darth rumsfeld

    T.Ruth

    I always admired Sir Richard Rich, but not as much as Sir Adrian Dangerous

  • Maybe Mr Hain suffers from a disabling sleeping disorder and couldn’t help it.

  • barnshee

    hain is slf serving unprincipled scumbag who climbed on and off each and every political protest which would serve his self agrandissment (Hello Liberals goodby liberals when they did not recogise his attribute od did they?)

    He should resign ??? bollocks take him to nearest vet and have him put down.-its more than he deserves

  • middle-class taig

    “Stopping SF being in government is not a fault, indeed permitting it would be.”

    Why is that then bertie? It seems to be because taigs vote for them.

    The idea that unionists aren’t to blame for Hain being here is self-indulgent, mindless, nelsonian twaddle.

  • barnshee

    MCT
    “The unionist community is at fault. It is refusing to share power. if it stopped doing so, we’d have our own government of local people within weeks”

    And what difference would they make ?

    SFA –the power resides with the fiscal power the UK government they can thow a few bones to our local morons who screw us for salaries they could never even dream of earning if they had to depend on their (ha ha ha) inherent abilities

    The best they can doo is squabble about emptying the bins and shit on each other by ballsings up education (M McM) and health (the ugly sister whose name I forget).

    They KNOW they can do SFA -thats why they are sitting it out until all the shit decisions on Rates, Education, Water rates etc are taken -it wasn`t us guv honest.

    Just ask them and keep asking -exactly what would they DO to prevent these changes if this nirvana existed -watch (all) the bastard squirm

  • Rory

    I think too much is being made of this incident. It is unfortunate surely and an apology is in order (and I would imagine will be forthcoming – although it might have made things easier if Mr McCord had not taken it as a personal insult and then gone public). The simplest explanation is that Mr Hain was very tired, it was after a heavy lunch, the weather was sultry. Mr Hain was indeed perhaps a little unwell. Any and all of these explanations would be simple and would suffice to explain the incident.

    It does Mr McCord nor his cause a lot of good to publicise his personal umbrage at a simple human failing when he could have better advanced his cause by exercising goodwill and understanding.

    Mr Hain’s political shortcomings need to be addressed for what they are. We should have enough to do addressing them for they are manifestly many, but this is a cheap way of attacking him.

  • Fanny

    Barnshee

    “The best they can doo is squabble about emptying the bins and shit on each other by ballsings up education (M McM) and health (the ugly sister whose name I forget).”

    M McM, who he? Assuming it’s a he.

    And I do hope you’re not being sexist about M McM’s sister. He’s an adonis himself then is he?

    Rory

    “this is a cheap way of attacking him.”

    If you can suggest a more expensive way of attacking Hain, I’m all ears.

  • gareth mccord

    RORY
    you have a right to your view but i have a right to let you know you are full of SHIT (NO OFFENCE)!MAYBE YOUR JOKING VIEWS ESCAPE MY HUMOUR BUT OF ALOT OF POSTS ON SLUGGER INCLUDING SOME OF MY OWN ARE DEBATABLE BUT YOUR POST IS NOT JUST SILLY ARROGANT AND DISRESPECTABLE BUT INSULTING TO OUR FAMILY!! YES I DONT THINK EVERYONE AGREES WITH MR MCCORDS CAMPAIGN BUT TO INSULT A MURDER VICTIM IS UNFORGIVABLE!!

  • tiny

    The DUP are very quiet on this issue, remember Hain is virtually our PM, imagine if Blair had done the same thing while meeting the father of a murder victim, why no protest from Paisley, is he afraid of highlighting exactly how our direct rule master feels towards us?

    Ian, thanks for the leadership!!!

  • Rory

    Fanny,
    If you can suggest a more expensive way of attacking Hain, I’m all ears.

    You got me there. But I’ll certainly put my thinking cap on.

    Gareth McCord,

    I neither gave nor intended any disrespect to your family nor to the cause which it is fighting – with which I am in full sympathy. I just happen to think that Raymond McCord might have been better advised to allow his displeasure at Hain’s lapse be registered on a more discreet level and thus put Hain at a disadvantage. As it is all he has done is create a furore that is a total diversion from his own cause and may not help in the future. After a bit of reflection this may become apparent. Mrs Hermon perhaps ought to at least have been poltically astute enough to advise him but perhaps she had another agenda.

    I wish your family well in its campaign.

  • McGrath

    Rory:

    I’m not going to kick you in the balls as hard as Gareth, but of all occasions to nod off, Hain picks this one, were emotions are charged and people are frustrated.

    It confirms a lot about Hain, a man charged with the interests of Northern Ireland who obviously doesn’t give a fiddlers.

    Even if he had an excuse, no one is going to believe him, his cursory self serving attitude indites him.

  • Rory

    That’s all right, McGrath, my loins have been well and truly girded for a long time now and I am as imperious as a Sumo wrestler.

    I have no doubt that what you say of Hain is true. It really is a question of tactics. Raymond McCord is a bereaved father seeking truth and hoping for, if not expecting, justice. He is not a seasoned political manipulator and his ouburst at Hain’s behaviour is perfectly understandable. But tactically it may have been better to simply withdraw saying, “Mr Hain, I see we have not caught you at your best today, perhaps on another occasion…?” and then left him dangling.

    You don’t have to be Machiavelli, merely be aware and respectful of simple human weakness.

  • bertie

    “”Stopping SF being in government is not a fault, indeed permitting it would be.”

    Why is that then bertie? It seems to be because taigs vote for them.

    The idea that unionists aren’t to blame for Hain being here is self-indulgent, mindless, nelsonian twaddle”

    If saying that SF should not be in government seems to you to be because of who they vote for and not because they are an evil bunch who still justify a long and bloody campaing of murder, then I can’t help you.

    The ised that unionists are responsible for Hain is twaddle.

  • bertie

    Raymond Mc Cord is right to express his anger. It needs tp be made clear that these things justify anger and are a big deal.

  • gareth mccord

    RORY
    cheers but do you actually think hain cares even if mr mccord highlighted it your way. NO! no matter what way to go about making excuses for his behaviour their is none. the democratic people of the uk and the world need to see how the british government treats families who have loved ones murdered by protected killers of the police force. his lack of interest with a lack of an apology along with the usual silence of unionist leaders says it all.(THEY DONT CARE)!!

  • Maxdiver

    Hey Fraggle – you obviously don’t have a good comprehension of the situation.

    Your views are delusional and stunted by your own ignorance. Please don’t cloud our threads with your sectarian filth

  • ha_ha_ha

    PLEASE…..I almost nodded off!