GAA Board grants ground to Hunger Strike rally

The Antrim GAA Board has granted permission for its Casement Park ground to be used for a Hunger Strike Rally. Casement Park received a substantial funding package for improvements in 2000 including support from Making Belfast Work, the Sports Council and European Peace funds. Does this non-sporting and political use of the facilities improved by public monies breach grant conditions?

  • harpo

    ‘A sentiment which has echoed around the world’

    lib:

    True – anywhere in the world where you find terrorist supporters.

    ‘They’ve lost the argument’

    What argument?

    So what’s the answer to my question? Is it about all the hunger-strikers, or just the graduates?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    bertie: “Keith’s origonal statement was open to sinister interpretation but he has clarified his position subsequently has he not? ”

    Not really.

    But, seeing as this has degenerated into p***ing contest, I’m williing to say fair ’nuff.

  • gg

    “A sentiment which has echoed around the world.”

    Where?

  • Mainlander

    “A sentiment which has echoed around the world.”
    “Where?”

    Duh (;)!!!
    In deepest, downtown, Tehran the mullahs have named one of the cul de sacs after Bobby.

    And there was a riot of Maoist students in Milan in 1981. Dublin a bit of flag burning.
    There was..mmm..that’s it AFAIK.

    Dunno, I’m sure Fidel or yer man in N. Korea has named something or other after them, it’s just that they were sentiments that didn’t really echo that loud. As it were.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Willow;
    “You give the game way, though, in your last sentence when you describe “symbols of Irishness”. This betrays the common nationalist arrogance of assuming that nationalism and Irishness are one and the same. They are not: Irishness embraces all identities in Ireland, including unionists.”

    Willow these wouldn’t be the same kind of symbols of Irishness that to the laughter and derision of the world. Unionists want whitewashed from any future Paddy’s day events in Belfast is it?

    Willow;
    “So you have to be a nationalist to be interested in Irish culture? What kind of a thought process produces that kind of conclusion?

    This kind of arrogant, chauvinistic attitude is a major barrier to reconciliation in Ireland.”

    I believe that you will be more than familiar with the strawman concept willow. Do you really think that as evidenced on this thread that those like Harpo et al are remotely interested in reconcilliation? Come on.

    Willow;
    “Everyone was welcome to work in Shorts when the shop floor was festooned with Union flags, too. Isn’t that right?”

    Ah now, it would be good to compare peoples experiences. On the one hand traumatised by playing Gaelic sports, or traumatised by having sectarian behavior on a daily basis around you at your place of work. Hmmmmm The simple fact is that often folk don’t have a choice where they work, apples and pears I’m afraid when compared to sport or commemorations.

    You mentioned previously the idea that the GAA is percieved as a sectarian organisation by the Unionist community. That is fair enough, what I would question however is the motivation behind this conclusion. There is as has been noted here and elswhere, a palpable wish on the part of Unionists for this to be so, even in the face of lack of evidence to back it up. The fact that many Unionists are by nature very beligerant towards symbols of Irish culture, probably does not in itself allow fair analysis.

  • time to go

    The GAA reminds me of the Nazi Youth League.

    We are in a new millenium, dinosaurs like the GAA need to reform or be destroyed

    Although i really do doubt that the GAA has the vision to change, the grants are carrots, but i see little effect. Soon it will be time to forget about carrots and bring out the stick.

  • Prince Eoghan

    “That’s about the height of his argument.”

    Posted by harpo on Jul 30, 2006 @ 07:48 PM

    It may be pertinent for me to point out at this time Harpo, that at least I have an argument. Apart from displaying your obvious class at mocking the dead, you do not have anything to say.

  • Garibaldy

    Mainlander,

    There’s certainly nothing named after the Hunger Strikers in the DPRK, and as far as I know nothing in Cuba.

    Rather than insulting the Provos, you’re insulting the Koreans and Cubans, who suffer day and daily from an aggressive imperialism which PSF seeks support from. Anyone who worries about the right of a people to decide its own future – about the principle of national soveriegnty – should support these countries in their struggles to soldier on.

  • harpo

    ‘Do you really think that as evidenced on this thread that those like Harpo et al are remotely interested in reconcilliation?’

    Prince:

    Based on this thread, it just reinforces my view that unionists would remain much better off not being reconciled to/with those nationalists who live in a fantasy world where Bobby Sands and co are the honoured dead or whatever else they are called this week.

    I see no point in such reonciliation – whatever reconciliation means anyway – when one side (unionism) is expected to admit that everything was their fault, and that the terrorists on the other side were actually really nice guys who weren’t actually terrorists.

    So long as nationalists live in this fantasy world, reconciliation is never going to happen. We see thread after thread where unionists are expected to accept that they, or organizations on their side, are sectarian, but where individuals or organizations on the nationalist side do exactly the same things they are to be considered non-sectarian.

    It’s all based on the nationalist assumption that ‘we’re right and they’re wrong’. That’s horseshit, as are all of these comments on threads defending obvious sectarian behaviour by nationalist organizations like the GAA.

  • no clue

    Seriously people wft are you all talking about? Its pretty clear that none of you know anything about the GAA. It’s a sporting organisation, the largest voluntary organisation in Ireland with facilities and levels of skill that are the envy of the world. The GAA provides a sense of belonging and focus for young people who otherwise could choosen much more destr… actually I can’t even be bothered finishing this post as this debate is so depressing. Oh to be a middle class liberal with broadband.

  • Padraig Óg

    Well done Antrim GAA in aiding the commemoration of these 10 Brave Men

  • Occasional Commentator

    Can we have a thread on how people use the word ‘sectarian’? Preferably without referring too directly to NI. Some people define sectarian very loosely to mean simply having an opinion on something policital or cultural or religious and having an indirect link to something violent connected to said opinion. Others assume it’s limited to the targetting of civilians for people no reason other than their religion (which raises the problem of people who refuse to correctly investigate the motives of people, instead choosing the motive that suits them).

    I don’t think we’re going to agree on a ‘correct’ definition of sectarian, but it would be nice to discuss how people actually use it. Ultimately I’d like everyone on Slugger to stop using the word unless they are prepared to clarify what meaning they are using.

    We’re not going to agree on who is or isn’t sectarian, but it would be nice if people could at least be clearer about what they are accusating people of.

    i.e. Be wrong if you like, but at least be clear.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    The priest who murdered the people in Claudy was James Chesney.

    Posted by Liam on Jul 29, 2006 @ 03:43 PM

    You posted this in response to my 3:06 post on Saturday and I haven’t got round to replying until now.
    I don’t need a history lesson, but thanks anyway. I know Chesney had the twin roles of being:

    1) the Church Of Rome’s beacon of light;
    and
    2) a murdering bastard.

    Priest Reid’s name was mentioned as he
    1) described the unionist people as “akin to the Nazis” – a racist slur that would have resulted in prosecution in any other part of the United Kingdom.
    2)described the RA as “whiter than white”

    The point I was making was that along with the GAA, Reid, Chesney and other Roman Catholic Priests gave succour to the RAfia, commonly known as the Provos…FACT.

  • Padraig Óg

    Occasional Commentator

    Good point! The labels ‘sectarian’ and indeed ‘racist’ are too readily bandied about on this board. Seems to be a growing trend on here that any cyniscism or criticism of one side is sectarian and even not wanting England to win at football and celebrating their (usual) failure is racist

    Yours sincerely

    A racist sectarian

  • Occasional Commentator

    CL: “Priest Reid ….. described the unionist people as “akin to the Nazis” – a racist slur ”

    How is that racist? Most people in NI and in Germany are of the same race. The only connection to ‘racism’ in any of this is that the Nazis were racist. But is it racist to accuse somebody of being like a racist? Absolutely not.

    One of the reasons this damn thread is now at 200+ comments is large numbers of people unashamedly making false accusations. Now matter how angry you and I are at Reid, or how justified that anger is, a falsehood is a falsehood.

    Make accurate accusations and people will find it easier to listen and to care. What next, I don’t like Blair for invading Iraq, therefore he must be a racist and a homophobe and sectarian and …….

    This abuse of the word ‘racist’ is just like the use of the confusing word ‘sectarian’ – it goes to show why I suggested a thread to discuss sectarianmism a few comments ago.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Just seen Padraig g’s comment. It would be nice to be able to see others’ comments every time one presses Preview.

  • Realist

    “Well done Antrim GAA in aiding the commemoration of these 10 Brave Men”

    Indeed.

    Whilst I would question what is brave about blowing up a bar and murdering civilians in the process, the GAA are to be applauded for coming clean about their political exclusion of unionists.

  • Patrique

    The GAA gave two million to the Omagh fund.If they had allowed the ground to be used, Manchester United would have been able to compete with Chelsea in the transfer market, because they got the majority of the money.

  • willowfield

    PRINCE EOGHAN

    Willow these wouldn’t be the same kind of symbols of Irishness that to the laughter and derision of the world. Unionists want whitewashed from any future Paddy’s day events in Belfast is it?

    The only such symbol that I’m aware of is the Irish tricolour, which is not an inclusive symbol and represents only Irish nationalism. As I said, you are betraying the common nationalist arrogance of assuming that nationalism and Irishness are one and the same. They are not: Irishness embraces all identities in Ireland, including unionists.

    I believe that you will be more than familiar with the strawman concept willow. Do you really think that as evidenced on this thread that those like Harpo et al are remotely interested in reconcilliation? Come on.

    Whether or not Harpo is interested in reconciliation, he can answer for himself. The perceived lack of desire by Harpo or anyone else for reconciliation does not justify nationalism’s failings genuinely to want reconciliation. Arrogant and chauvinistic attitudes such as yours – common within nationalism – that only nationalists can be interested in Irish culture; and that Irishness and nationalism are one and the same – are a serious, serious barrier to reconciliation.

  • willowfield

    Ah now, it would be good to compare peoples experiences. On the one hand traumatised by playing Gaelic sports, or traumatised by having sectarian behavior on a daily basis around you at your place of work. Hmmmmm The simple fact is that often folk don’t have a choice where they work, apples and pears I’m afraid when compared to sport or commemorations.

    You’ve missed the point entirely. Obviously you accept that the inappropriate display of partisan flags makes a place unwelcoming to those not of a like-minded disposition.

    Think about it.

  • willowfield

    You mentioned previously the idea that the GAA is percieved as a sectarian organisation by the Unionist community. That is fair enough, what I would question however is the motivation behind this conclusion. There is as has been noted here and elswhere, a palpable wish on the part of Unionists for this to be so, even in the face of lack of evidence to back it up. The fact that many Unionists are by nature very beligerant towards symbols of Irish culture, probably does not in itself allow fair analysis.

    There’s plenty of evidence to back it up if you’d open your eyes, and there’s no “motivation” for calling it as it is.

    Again, you betray your own arrogance and ignorance by referring equating nationalist symbols and “symbols of Irish culture”. The two are not the same.

  • Prince Eoghan

    “Arrogant and chauvinistic attitudes such as yours – common within nationalism – that only nationalists can be interested in Irish culture; and that Irishness and nationalism are one and the same – are a serious, serious barrier to reconciliation.”

    Posted by willowfield on Jul 31, 2006 @ 10:12 PM

    Your premise concerning Nationalism and indeed my own chauvenism is wildly wrong Willow. I have never once claimed that Irish culture cannot be of interest to non-Nationalists. Do you seriously believe that this erronious perception is a serious barrier to reconciliation? when there are loads of others that I for one would deem far more important.

    Why do Unionists have so many objections to the flaunting of Irish culture? is it because of my percieved arrogance and chauvenism?

  • Prince Eoghan

    “You’ve missed the point entirely. Obviously you accept that the inappropriate display of partisan flags makes a place unwelcoming to those not of a like-minded disposition.

    Think about it.”

    Posted by willowfield on Jul 31, 2006 @ 10:33 PM

    I did, apples and oranges.

  • Prince Eoghan

    The 10.38 post does not mask your failure to address my points by repeatedly calling me arrogant Willow.

    C’mon is this the language of reconciliation?

  • Pete Baker

    There is an update to this, at least as reported by the BBC – ignore the band-wagon jumping of the DUP for a moment.

    However, the GAA’s Central Council in Dublin discussed the matter on Saturday and agreed that the Casement Park rally would break the organisation’s rules about staging political events.

    Although, the GAA website report on that meeting doesn’t include that particular snippet of information…

  • willowfield

    PRINCE EOGHAN

    I have never once claimed that Irish culture cannot be of interest to non-Nationalists. Do you seriously believe that this erronious perception is a serious barrier to reconciliation? when there are loads of others that I for one would deem far more important.

    You are equating symbols of Irish nationalism with symbols of Irishness and accusing unionists who reject the former of rejecting the latter. Defining Irishness in such an arrogant and exclusive way most certainly is a barrier to reconciliation.

    Why do Unionists have so many objections to the flaunting of Irish culture? is it because of my percieved arrogance and chauvenism?

    You’ve just put your foot in it by proving my point with this comment!

    I did, apples and oranges.

    It’s not. The analogy is of the inappropriate display of partisan symbols. You acknowledge that it excludes people in a workplace, but claim it includes people at a sporting event. Your logic fails.

  • harpo

    ‘The GAA provides a sense of belonging and focus for young people…’

    no clue:

    True. For SOME young people. Young unionist people were effectively excluded.

    ‘Oh to be a middle class liberal with broadband.’

    So what are you then?

    A middle class republican with broadband?

    At least you show ambition, maybe some day you will become liberal and rid yourself of the Irish Republicanism.

  • harpo

    ‘Apart from displaying your obvious class at mocking the dead’

    Prince:

    I’m not mocking all dead people. Just dead terorists when people defend them by talking about commemorating them.

    Which is worse in your world? Mocking dead terrorists or commemorating them?

  • harpo

    ‘I did, apples and oranges.

    It’s not. The analogy is of the inappropriate display of partisan symbols. You acknowledge that it excludes people in a workplace, but claim it includes people at a sporting event. Your logic fails.’

    willow:

    It’s a waste of time talking to him. Consistent argument means nothing to him. He always has the classic fallback of ‘but that’s different’.

    The sad thing is that he asks for substance and hard argument, but then when presented with it he ignores it all with tired cliches like ‘apples and oranges’. He never explains how things are different. He just says that they are.

    He has no arguments – just his fixed positions. When he is shown that 2 things are exactly alike he uses cop-outs like ‘no that’s different’.