How Catholics might celebrate Guy Fawkes…

Been spending too much time reading that Guido guy recently. But this looks like an interesting diversion.

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  • DK

    He says that the Northern Irish celebrate Guy Fawkes Day. I don’t think any of them do, do they?

  • pith

    He also suggests making a model of some buildings which didn’t exist in 1605.

  • circles

    …and the british parliament buildings aren’t even made of gingerbread!

  • pith

    …and if you put fireworks in your gingerbread you just end up wrecking your oven!

  • smcgiff

    If Protestants burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes, shouldn’t Catholics burn an effigy of Charles II, which is essentially what Fawkes was trying to do?

  • pith

    …the sins of the grandfather?

  • SpellingBee

    “If Protestants burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes, shouldn’t Catholics burn an effigy of Charles II, which is essentially what Fawkes was trying to do?”

    I think you mean James I

  • I was once staying with cousins in Saff Landon (South London) when they were building a bonfire in November. They asked me do people in Northern Ireland celebrate Guy Fawkes night, I replied “We would have done if he succeeded.”

  • smcgiff

    ‘I think you mean James I’

    My bad!!!, but you know what I mean. 🙂

  • JR

    Why would anyone in NI celebrate Guy Fawkes. It’s an English ‘celebration’. Instead here in NI we celebrate a good pagan festival, get drunk and dance naked around the only all-inclusive bonfire. Which goes to prove religion is the root cause of all evil!!

  • Occasional Commentator

    What about Catholics who are glad Fawkes failed, or Protestants who are ashamed of what Protestants did then? Or those who think both religions were as bad as each other in those days? How should they celebrate/commemorate the 5th November?

  • smcgiff

    ‘religion is the root cause of all evil!!’

    Amen

  • pith

    Has the modern version of Hallowe’en not taken over in England as the major ‘festival’ at that time of year?

    Does Scotland have Bonfire Night?

  • tally

    When asked by cujimmy the 1st why he tried to do it, Fawkes replied “”To blow the Scottish beggars back to their native mountains!”
    He’ll do for me. An English hero.

  • DK

    pith: “Has the modern version of Hallowe’en not taken over in England as the major ‘festival’ at that time of year?”

    The whole period from 31st Oct to 5th Nov is a big festivity (largely for children) with the halloween trick or treating and dressing up kicking things off, then making the guys for the bonfires (including penny for the guy) and fireworks getting increasingly common until the big dispays and bonfires at whatever weekend is closest to 5th November. It’s great.

  • crow

    Nov 5th is celebrated on army camps in Northern Ireland.

  • pith

    DK,

    Thanks. I find it interesting that the old Irish-Scottish festival crossed the Atlantic and came all the way back to England with turnips changed into pumpkins. Interesting again to learn that it now blends in with the Guy Fawkes night celebrations. Just out of curiosity, were there bonfires at that time of year in England before the attempt to blow up King and Parliament?

  • DK

    Hi Pith,

    Halloween is not a recent phenomenon and the 2 always blended into one another. Nice that the English get a bit of Irish/Scottish culture – it’s usually the other way round!

  • Emmett

    I was in Hackney, east London last year on November 5th and they did what he is suggesting (only not in gingerbread). It was a Tower Hamlets Council sponsored event in Victoria Park. They built a massive wooden replica of the Houses of Parliament and blew it to bits with fireworks and then burned the remainder to the ground.
    The crowds cheered as it went up.

    The event had a flyer that said “…finish off what Guy Fawkes started!”

    Great stuff!

  • harpo

    ‘If Protestants burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes’

    Is it only English Protestants who celebrate Guy Fawkes Day, and burn his effigy? Or do other folks in England join in and not think too much about what it all means/symbolizes?

    Hasn’t this celebration become one of those ones where the original reason has been lost/forgotten, and it’s really all about a fun night for the kids?

    And while we are on the subject, I’m surprised that Kathy C hasn’t been on here to complain about how burning effigies of Guy Fawkes is yet more proof of the Queen-led conspiracy by the English to rid themselves of all Catholics.

    And another point. Why IS it OK for the English to burn effigies of Catholics but not OK for loyalists in NI to do so as part of their celebrations? We get many people (including English people) complaining about the supposed inherent sectarianism of NI loyalists for engaging in such activity, yet here are the English doing exactly the same thing.

  • circles

    Why are we talking about this anyway? Its the 28th of July – lets save this kind of thing for when the nights get long and we’ve nothing better to do – like around the start of November or so.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Hasn’t this celebration become one of those ones where the original reason has been lost/forgotten, and it’s really all about a fun night for the kids?’

    I’m with you above, but you’ve lost the plot below…

    ‘And another point. Why IS it OK for the English to burn effigies of Catholics but not OK for loyalists in NI to do so as part of their celebrations?’

    Can you really not see the difference between the burning of an effigy of Micky Bo and Guy Fawkes?!!? I’m lost for, er, begins with w, mmmm…

  • Prince Eoghan

    Harpo.

    *shakes head*

    What chance do people have with you about?

    “Does Scotland have Bonfire Night?”

    Aye, it gies near aw the dugs a nervous breakdoon bit.

  • harpo

    ‘They asked me do people in Northern Ireland celebrate Guy Fawkes night, I replied “We would have done if he succeeded.” ‘

    Jimmy:

    I’m surprised that republicans in NI don’t celebrate him, even though his plot failed. Most of those who are celebrated by IRs failed in whatever they were doing. Tone, Emmett, the 1916 rebels, right up to the latest generations of losers like skinny Bobby Sands etc. He would fit right in.

  • harpo

    ‘Why are we talking about this anyway?’

    Circles:

    That’s because the UK is a free country, and people can talk about whatever they want.

    Civil and religious liberty for all!

    If you don’t like the subject feel free not to contribute to it.

  • circles

    Its not OK Harpo – its over there in that starnge and foreign land England, and as long as it stays over there with yorkshire pudding and real ale, its their problem.
    Just cos they do it doesn’t make it right.

  • harpo

    ‘Can you really not see the difference between the burning of an effigy of Micky Bo and Guy Fawkes?!!?’

    Of course that’s different. Innocent person versus rebel terrorist. I should have been clearer. I was referring to Catholic terrorists.

    Was an effigy of Micky Bo burned? That’s wrong. I was thinking more about folks who were similar to Fawkes – Bobby Sands for instance. Catholic terrorists.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Was an effigy of Micky Bo burned? That’s wrong.’
    It was covered here fairly intensively – Shame on you for not keeping up with your slugger!!!

    And as the others you mention, I imagine they’d be fair game by the other side.

  • harpo

    ‘It was covered here fairly intensively’

    Was it?

    I don’t recall any discussion of an effigy of Micky Bo being burned. A flag with Micky Bo written on it yes, but not an actual effigy.

    And on the subject of that flag – I understood that the loyalists were stealing things from nationalist areas to burn – GAA posts, flags etc. Was the ROI flag with Micky Bo written on it one of the stolen items?

  • circles

    Harpo – I take it then Wolfe Tone wouldn’t be on your list as he was only a protestant terrorist.
    I think the only thing about Bobby Sands that was “similar” to Guy Fawkes is that they were both labelled Catholic.

    And that was a very weak attempt to try and bring Bobby Sands into this discussion – never mind the fact that you are still apparently so afraid of him that you have to keep on insulting him although he’s been dead for 25 years.

  • Occasional Commentator

    Whether you agreed with him or not, Fawkes definitely chose to be a combatant in a violent struggle, and therefore has accepted that he will have enemies. So we should get stuck into an argument about whether he was right or wrong. But we would all hopefully agree that grave desecration is just wrong, no matter who it is. Which brings me to asking myself if burning effigies is any better than desecrating graves? I’m starting to think not, but I’m not really sure. Maybe it’s all part of the rough and tumble of debate?

  • “And another point. Why IS it OK for the English to burn effigies of Catholics but not OK for loyalists in NI to do so as part of their celebrations? We get many people (including English people) complaining about the supposed inherent sectarianism of NI loyalists for engaging in such activity, yet here are the English doing exactly the same thing.”

    I guess its because the English and British people see you lot as foreign and very different to them. They see the six counties as somewhere foreign and over there, they call all of you Irish, even the most loyal orangeman is a Paddy to the British people. They’re also embarrassed the way their flag is used every summer and they don’t understand your whole marching trip. You are foreign to the British people.

  • Reader

    daithi: I guess its because the English and British people see you lot as foreign and very different to them.
    Even that won’t do. Here though, there is a connection with current affairs – though Lundy has been dead for centuries, like Guy Fawkes and Pope Paul V (at Lewes – with many other effigies).
    http://www.lewesbonfirecouncil.org.uk/moreinfo/index.html

    It’s the connection with current politics that makes everything more tense over here. Though Lewes can get a bit ‘current’, too:
    http://www.blather.net/shitegeist/2005/11/bonfire_night_in_lewes.htm