The Glorious twelfth update and rumour mill

Things seem to have gone well at the 17 main parade venues today and the local parades. I was up at Ardoyne for the Ballysillan Lodges and residents return home along the Crumlin Road. No missiles or golfballs this time, just a solitary firework with a harmeless bang UPDATE there were six bottles, three paint bombs and two fireworks thrown/used and an attack on Twaddell an hour after the parade. At Dunloy they held their wreath-laying ceremony without a repeat of an illegal protest. The Twelfth rumour mill (a notoriously unreliable rumour mill) is claiming the Ballynafeigh and Londonderry parades were attacked on their return route/evening parade, can any sluggerite confirm or deny this? Update Both confirmed by media outlets.

  • on the bridge

    I can confirm that there were missiles thrown on the Ormeau Bridge and the road was closed for about 10 minutes by Police but opened again.

  • Grimesy

    …& I can also confirm gun-fire at a bonfire off the Antirm Road (bottom of Glandore Avenue)last night.

  • harpo

    ‘…& I can also confirm gun-fire at a bonfire off the Antirm Road (bottom of Glandore Avenue)last night.’

    Grimesy:

    Republicans shooting at the Prods before heading off to burn down the Orange Hall?

  • Dec

    Harpo

    Loyalists shooting volleys of bullets as their bonfire, adorned with flags mocking murdered catholic children, is set ablaze?

    Grimesy

    Seriously, Fair-Deal is only bothered about republican firework tossing and not Loyalist paramilitaries firing guns. Do try to remember that.

  • I heard a rumour that at one of the fields Paisley said unionists would share power with PSF over ‘our dead bodies’. Anyone know if this crazy nonsense is true?

  • din

    harpo

    thats a long journey !!

    Perhaps just a paramilitary show of strength

  • Roger

    Very unfair some of these comments.

    Many orange halls were damaged by Republican thugs over the 12th period, and very little has been said about it.

    Finally in Fermanagh today, the biggest demonstration that I have witnessed in the 15 years I have been going to the 12th was on display.

    So much for the nationalist/republican myths that the orange order and the 12th is comeing to an end.

  • fair_deal

    Dec

    “is only bothered about”

    This thread topic is specifically about Twelfth parades. Also there has not been a shortage of threads on bonfires include one I put up myself.

    “Loyalists shooting volleys of bullets as their bonfire, adorned with flags mocking murdered catholic children, is set ablaze?”

    Feel free to paint as negative a picture as you can but at least try and get basic facts correct.

  • ben

    Yes, there’s nothing like isolated anecdotal evidence from a self-confessedly biased source to put paid to myths, is there? Odd how the swath of orange hall destruction has gone unreported, except between your ears.

  • Dec

    What facts did I get wrong? Did loyalists not erect that flag in the name of culture and refuse to remove it?

  • fair_deal

    UTV teletext Page 333 has confirmed the attack in Londonderry, some disturbances seem to be continuing in the Bogside area.

  • Roger

    I find it astounding that so many nationalist are so bigoted against the Orange Order.

  • Roger

    Dec

    This topic is about the ordinary Orangman/womanan and not about your views on loyalist paramilitaries.

    Fair Deal

    Do you feel that the Orange order in decline numerically, having just witnessed the 12th in Fermanagh I find this assumption to be incorrect.

  • Belfast Gonzo

    Why?

    Isn’t it, in word and deed, an anti-Catholic organisation?

  • Roger

    Pro Protestant does not make it anti catholic.

  • Dec

    Roger

    In your opinion, does God love Catholics as much as Protestants?

  • kensei

    “I find it astounding that so many nationalist are so ####### against the Orange Order.”

    I am astounded that so many Unionists are surprised by this considering it indulges in Aggession, Intimidation and Sectarianism. Censored? I’m not part of a secret organisation to oppose anyone.

  • fair_deal

    Update

    UTV news is on it seems there were small number of missiles thrown at Ardoyne and an attempted attack on Twaddell. Despite dialogue taking place Gerry Adams seems to be implying there hasn’t been, curious.

    Bolts fired at ballymacrett district as they passed Short Strand

    Dec

    You described two separate incidents (if the North one did occur) that occured literally miles apart as one event hence fatcual inaccuracy.

    “Did loyalists not erect that flag in the name of culture and refuse to remove it?”

    No they didn’t. Here is a concept republican posters seems to be finding difficult holding bonfires as part of the celebrations for a key historical date is a cultural tradition. Firing shots is a paramilitary act not a cultural one. The Ahoghill flag was a sectarian act not a cultural one.

  • kensei

    “Pro Protestant does not make it anti catholic.”

    Unfortunately, being anti-Catholic by constitution and deed actually does. Weird that.

  • kensei

    “Despite dialogue taking place Gerry Adams seems to be implying there hasn’t been, curious.”

    Er, he explicity mentioned the Unionists that recognised the need to talk on the news.

  • fair_deal

    kensei

    He said that after calling on the Loyal Orders to engage in dialogue with Ardoyne as such an act was good neighbourliness even though the dialogue has occured with their support and participation. As I said curious.

  • vinty

    minor confrontation at the ravenhill road/short strand junction this evening.

    30 loyalists throw missiles at catholic homes on albertbridge road, police were on the scene straight away, fairly minor disturbance as far as i could tell, from a distance.

  • kensei

    “He said that after calling on the Loyal Orders to engage in dialogue with Ardoyne as such an act was good neighbourliness even though the dialogue has occured with their support and participation. As I said curious.”

    What was the level of engagement? Proper face-to-face talks? Or something lessor where in fact, the whole string would make sense?

  • Dec

    Fair_deal

    Spare me the bullshit pal. This year it was Michael McIlveen in Aghohill and the Hunger Strikers in the Shankill (just 2 examples). Last year it was suicide victims in the Westland (just 1 example). Every year Loyalist paramilitaries turn up rattle off a few threats, give out a few medals and release a few rounds, and judging from the reactions, that appears to be the highlight of the evening. As I said on a previous thread, whatever the historical resonances of bonfires they have been submerged in bitter anti-catholic and anti-irish vitriol. Perhaps if somebody within your community ever gets up from their arse and provides some actual leadership you may find Repbublicans, Nationalists, Catholics and indeed, many Protestants, might not have so many objections to large fires once a year.

  • Moochin photoman

    vinty
    thats been going on every night for the last 10 days or so unreported

  • McGrath

    “Perhaps if somebody within your community ever gets up from their arse and provides some actual leadership you may find Repbublicans, Nationalists, Catholics and indeed, many Protestants, might not have so many objections to large fires once a year.”

    Leadership? Maybe the current OO leadership is scared shit less of its membership?

  • vinty

    moochin photoman

    Didn’t realise that, was just visiting a friend around that area this evening.

    Just off the phone to another pal who lives around that side of town, was asking him about the previous couple of weeks, he said that several homes had been attacked on the alberbridge since the start of July with some homes having windows broken etc..

    Funny how so much of this is not deemed news worthy.

  • Moochin photoman

    “Spides will be spides” there teenagers who havent got a baldy notion. The peelers watch sitting in between them for an hour or so then a landrover turns on the lights and drives at them and thats the end of the nights craic!
    The local band (uncle andy voice ) the Rising Sons Flute Band have just stopped playing perhaps because they finally busted the final bass drum skin!

  • view from the bridge

    Let’s forget all this jockeying for the moral high ground. Prods like the 12th and catholics hate it. The bitter shows of sectarian hatred by republicans on this board are much more to do with a realisation on their part that they lost the war and days like today are galling re-affirmations of a strong, confident loyalist/unionist community who are more than capable of holding what they have. We resisted you when you were heavily armed by Arabic fanatics, now you’ve pleasingly surrendered all that hard won weaponry, accepted the principle of consent, begged for Paisley to lead a return to Stormont and endorsed the reneging of the republic’s illegal claim to this part of the UK, the twelfth is even more enjoyable than ever.
    No surrender! and i hope you had an enjoyable day 🙂

  • terrorist hatefest

    And its great to see the orangemen of south belfast celebrate the memory of uff mass murderer Joe Bratty at today’s hatefest.

  • Random Punter

    Just incase anybody has forgotten the words 😉

    Sure I’m an Ulster Orangeman, from Erin’s isle I came,
    To see my British brethren all of honour and of fame,
    And to tell them of my forefathers who fought in days of yore,
    That I might have the right to wear, the sash my father wore!

    (Chorus) It is old but it is beautiful, and its colours they are fine,
    It was worn at Derry, Aughrim, Enniskillen and the Boyne,
    My father wore it as a youth in bygone days of yore,
    And it’s on the Twelfth I love to wear the sash my father wore

    For those brave men who crossed the Boyne have not fought or died in vain,
    Our Unity, Religion, Laws, and Freedom to maintain,
    If the call should come we’ll follow the drum, and cross that river once more,
    That tomorrow’s Ulsterman may wear the sash my father wore!

    And when some day, across the sea to Antrim’s shore you come,
    We’ll welcome you in royal style, to the sound of flute and drum,
    And Ulster’s hills shall echo still, from Rathlin to Dromore,
    As we sing again the loyal strain of the sash my father wore!

  • Moochin photoman

    Random Punter
    “Freedom to maintain”
    Maintain what, the staus quo? The balance of power? the Sectariansm? Suppression and intimidation of your neighbour?
    The song is an anachronism.

  • vierw from the bridge

    “And its great to see the orangemen of south belfast celebrate the memory of uff mass murderer Joe Bratty at today’s hatefest.”

    Was it a war or not?
    In republican terms, it was. Bratty was a combatant with as much right to be remembered as Sands et al, surely?
    Although if I was a republican I’d be embarressed to do so given how very, very far the Provos were from everything he died for when they waved the white flag.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Fair_Deal: “No they didn’t. Here is a concept republican posters seems to be finding difficult holding bonfires as part of the celebrations for a key historical date is a cultural tradition. Firing shots is a paramilitary act not a cultural one. The Ahoghill flag was a sectarian act not a cultural one. ”

    Now you’re splitting hairs, trying to edit a few trees out of the forest, lest their diseased state be noted. Was not the flag part of the bonfire? Are you actually trying to sever the bonfire itself from the materials placed upon it?

  • Billy

    Roger

    The membership figures (as recorded by the Grand Orange lodge of Ireland) do, indeed, clearly show that membership numbers are declining and have been doing so over the last 7 – 10 years.

  • Anyhoo, back to the thread – there was a wee bit of bother in Derry last night, youths from the Bogside came up to the Diamond on the return of the Derry lodges, they had been congregating from just before 5pm.
    A car was hijacked and PBs thrown.
    More or less similar to last year (but perhaps not as sustained).
    And by the way, sorry to be pedantic, there is one instance here but I have seen a lot of it on Slugger in the past.
    It is “Ahoghill” (Ford of the Yew Tree), not Agohill or Ahogill.
    If you’re going to mention the delightful and welcoming village (!) it is important to spell it correctly.

  • I know I am now being hypocritical and going off topic – on the subject of names, was listening to the radio last weekend when the new Muse number, ‘Supermassive Black Hole’ came on.
    The other half pipes up: “Is that song about Ballymena?”

  • Billy

    View from the Bridge

    “a strong, confident loyalist/unionist community who are more than capable of holding what they have”

    I seem to remember the following.

    Paisley saying that the Irish govt should never have any say in the running of NI in 1969 and many times in the years since.

    Paisley saying that the GOVT would never disband the B Specials.

    Paisley and all the other Unionist leaders saying at the first anti-AIA rally that they would ensure it would not survive long enough to have a 1st anniversary. – oddly enough they had a similar rally 1 YEAR later.

    Paisley saying that the GOVT would never disband the UDR.

    Paisley saying that no-one would ever stop the OO from marching on the Queen’s Highway.

    Paisley saying that there would be a caravan outside Maryfield permanently manned by a DUP member until the AI secretariat was closed. Within a year, the caravan was an empty wreck – the secretariat is still there!!.

    Paisley saying that the GOVT would never disband the RIR home batallions.

    Paisley saying that the DUP would never deal with Sinn Fein in local councils.

    Well – you’ve really held on to what you have (sorry had!!!).

  • fair_deal

    Again trying to mak

    “the Hunger Strikers in the Shankill (just 2 examples). Last year it was suicide victims in the Westland (just 1 example).”

    You claimed the micky bo flag was defended as cultural I explained how it wasn’t. The suicide stuff was another sectarian act.

    “Every year Loyalist paramilitaries turn up rattle off a few threats, give out a few medals and release a few rounds, and judging from the reactions, that appears to be the highlight of the evening. ”

    Not anymore, loyalist shows of strengths are disappearing (fortunately and I’ve never heard of “medals” being awarded). Time your narrative caught up. Believe it or not the Unionist community has the ability to bring about change.

  • Prince Eoghan

    “Believe it or not the Unionist community has the ability to bring about change.”

    ROFL.

    FD. Sometimes you can be an unconscious comedian.

  • Dec

    fortunately and I’ve never heard of “medals” being awarded)

    K Company handed them out at the Westland bonfire a couple of years ago. There’s one example.

    Believe it or not the Unionist community has the ability to bring about change.

    I don’t doubt it. Any chance of it ever actually happening. Was there one bonfire this year that was not accompanied by an Irish flag or an effigy of a Nationalist/Catholic figure?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Fair_Deal: “Believe it or not the Unionist community has the ability to bring about change. ”

    The “ability” has never been the question. The desire and political will, however, have been lacking. Take, for example, the attitude that some have that “there’s just no helping the spides” and that Nationalists should be satisfied with Unionist denouncements of Loyalist behavior at regular intervals, because that’s the best they can do.

  • Boney Man

    Dec

    The bonefire in Cregagh Estate, East belfast had no tricolour on it. There were no anti Catholic or anti Nationalist slogans attached in any way to it or anything of that nature in the entire vicinty. I am not a Loyalist and was there observing. I was also aware in the 1 hr that I was there, I heard no sectarian chanting. Hundreds of people were there, loads of kids, techno music was blasting, a mobile chippy was making a fortune.

    It wasn’t an inclusive inter community event by any means but it wasn’t a hate fest. Perhaps this is the most realistic we can be about many unionist and nationalist commerative occassions?

    Seperate but seeking to remove the openly and crudely sectarian so as to minimise potential for offence and conflict.

    Baby steps.

  • Dec

    Boney Man

    Glad to hear it. More of the same please.