The Glorious Twelfth

The will be 17 main parades today for the Twelfth of July plus the local parades. A North Antrim Orange Hall was burnt down last night. In signs of normalisation the Army will not be deployed today.The Parade Commission determinations that have caused a public spat are the Dunloy parade and at Ardoyne the issue of Upper North/Ballysillan residents using the Crumlin Road to get home in the evening. In Dunloy, local SF representative has described a wreath-laying ceremony by the local lodge in the village Presbyterian Chruch as “coat-trailing” while in North Belfast neither side is happy with the proposals for buses for Upper North/Ballysillan residents.

PS For obvious reasons I won’t be about until later this evening so I won’t be playing my usual active role on threads today.

  • Thir Eoghain

    See, that’s what happens when you build bonfires too close too Orange Lodges (and other buildings).

    One less Orange lodge can’t be a bad thing…..

  • Eoighain Thir

    See, that’s what happens when you build bonfires too close too Orange Lodges (and other buildings).

    One less Orange lodge can’t be a bad thing….. …..

    pff some *very* uneducated post here unfortunately

    “build bonfires too close too Orange Lodges”, an orange lodge is a body of orangemen you idiot

    “One less Orange lodge can’t be a bad thing….. …..”

    I find these comments inciteful, and attacks like these usually have a reaction, some GAA hall in Antrim could be torched tonight. And who *really* benefits out of all of that ?

    And dont worry mate, there wont be “one less hall”, it will be rebuilt better than before

    No Surrender

  • heres hoping

    et you were doing well until you finished with that “no surrender” nonsense.

  • CS Parnell

    “No Surrender” – that’s a joke I use with friends everyday of the year except this one. I have to say, if the aim of the 12th July is to make the Taigs feel sullen and resentful it still works. Beseiged within the seige.

    Heaven help me but I’ll admit it, that sullenness does make at least a part of me think “gotcha” when I read about an Orange Hall getting burnt.

    The idea that today could be a day of cross community tourism could only have been thought up by some English total ejit.

    I am in exile these days, so a question: do the BBC still show the parades live? There was never a clearer sign of living in an Orange State for an Orange People than that – couldn’t even watch Brit children’s TV because of all the Orangies.

    Better stop now, feel the rage rising and that’s never a good thing when discussing the blighted North.

  • what it really means

    “No Surrender” – that’s a joke I use with friends everyday of the year except this one. I have to say, if the aim of the 12th July is to make the Taigs feel sullen and resentful it still works

    – what it means is despite the fact that nationalist murder gangs killed hundreds of protestants, destroyed protestant businesses and still to this day are intimidating protestants and burning orange halls, the orange remain proud and stand tall, unbowed and unbroken. I think thats what *really* annoys the taigs on this board, they have not even dented the spirit of the the glorious orange.

    Anyways, must get ready for 12th in Gilford, but dont worry i think the BBC still show it live, so you wont miss any of it 😀

    No Surrender

  • Riddle me This

    CS Parnell

    “There was never a clearer sign of living in an Orange State for an Orange People than that – couldn’t even watch Brit children’s TV because of all the Orangies.”

    Childrens TV ?

    What age are you ???

    5 ?

  • slug

    Happy 12th July to EVERYONE.

  • CS Parnell

    My kids aren’t even 5 anymore. I was referring to my memories of this day in the 1970s.

    There isn’t much of a centre ground here is there?

    I am sure there are many more NI protestants now in Spain than on any 12 July parade, so I am sure there must be some critical comments. I have at least been honest about my feeelings – and I am not in any way defending people who burn down Organge Halls – they should be prosecuted and jailed.

    How about some reflections from the other side of the house (beyond the “get it right up ye, ye Fenian bees”)

  • Rory

    I wonder will there be an Orange Gay contingent on any of the parades. I can just visualise an elegant transvestite all decked out in “The Sash Mia Farrow Wore”.

    (There’s a beard on that one I know but even if it’s old it remains beautiful).

  • slug

    CS Parnell:

    Being honest, although I am not in the OO nor associated with it in any way I would always try to go along to watch, when I am not away, as I quite enjoy the music, especially the lambegs, and general atmosphere. As a child I found it quite good fun watching the general hub-ub. Sorry to hear they alienated you, and I understand this is the case for many. I would genuinely like to see things evolve where you don’t get a negative feeling from the parades. I see the future as one of making the day a bit more carnivalesque, less political, less confrontational, and cracking down on alcohol abuse.

  • Kevin

    How many of you good Orangemen know that by celebrating the 12th you unwittingly pay homage to the Vatican. Way back in 1690 King James had fallen from favor with the Vatican, hence the Pope of the time decreed that prayers be offered to secure a victory for King William. It is My contention that without those prayers the Williamites would have been defeated and old King Billy himself might well have floundered when he fell off his horse midstream in the ever so sweet waters of the Boyne. Now for those who don’t believe me, when you come down from the ceiling I suggest you check with a reputable historian, preferably one who does’nt view history through a pint glass in the pub down the road. So with the marching season now under way, and before you launch into a thundering rendition of No Nay Never could you not find it in your hearts to just bend a knee and give us a wee chorus of Ave Maria. If you don’t know the tune, sure anybody from Ardoyne or the Garvaghy Rd would be happy to teach you and after all give credit where credit is due.

  • Nevin

    Kevin, I’d have thought that the Pope would have had more of a gripe with Louis than with James?

  • Nevin

    Gerry’s Twelfth message:

    [i]Mr Adams said:

    “I would once again appeal to people over the coming days, in spite of provocation and in spite of the continuing insistence of the Orange Order to march in areas where they are clearly not welcome, to remain calm.

    “As in previous years republicans will do all in our power to ensure that the coming days pass off peacefully. But this is not the sole responsibility of republicans. The British Government and the PSNI have a big responsibility. The Orange Order and unionist political leaders must play their part in ensuring that the violence traditionally associated with the Twelfth parades is averted this year.” ENDS[/i]

    Poor Gerry. Is this a case of severe memory lapse? Athboy?

  • Kevin

    Nevin….You might very well be right, however the point I’m trying to make is that the old Loyal Orange slogan of “No Pope Here” is a little bit ironic when you consider the Pope could very well be responsible for the very existance of the Orange Order but then, this is just My totally uneducated opinion.

  • Prince Eoghan

    The Glorious Twelfth

    Grouse shooting season already.

    Rory.

    Stop it you’r killing me. I actually suspect there is a lot of repressed homosexuality going on there;¬)

    As far as there being one less gang hut for the stompers to leave from, why should those on the receiving end of the hatred care?

  • Keith M

    As Eoghan has pointeed out “The Glorious 12th” is still a month away, as that’s the start of grouse shooting season.

    I look forward to the day that July 12th is a public holiday on both parts of the island as the event that it celebrates actually happened in the republic, and we do need another mid-summer holiday in this country.

    In return March 17th should become a full public holiday in Northern Ireland.

    Those kind of cross border initiatives should gain support all over the island.

  • The Glorious Twelfth

    Grouse Shooting Season

    …from August 12 to November 30 in Northern Ireland. The grouse are wild and not artificially reared. Most grouse shooting takes place in a formal setting with birds being driven over the shooters. The Guns are placed in butts (a hide for shooting screened by a turf or stone wall) and the birds are driven towards them by beaters. There is a strict code of conduct governing behaviour on the grouse moor for both safety and etiquette. Grouse shooting can also be undertaken by ‘walking up’ grouse over pointers, or by flushing the birds with other dogs.

    This is a traditional sport which was largely supplanted by formal driven shooting in the mid to late 1800s, but which is seeing a resurgence in popularity, although driven grouse shooting is the only commercially viable means of running a grouse moor.

    Umm, now I wonder what way will this conversation head? 🙂

    And it gives me the opportunity to see if co.mments works here instead of an overload of e-mails in my inbox.

  • CS Parnell

    A few years ago I went to the site of the battle and back then they had a viewing platform with three boards up.

    The first said that if you looked in this direction it was where King James’s troops assembled. The second, just to it’s right, showed where the forces clashed and the third, on the extreme right was where King William’s forces assembled.

    The first board was green, the second white, the third orange. Point made.

  • peter fallow

    “As far as there being one less gang hut for the stompers to leave from, why should those on the receiving end of the hatred care?”

    That’s one of the most blatantly sectarian remarks relating to an act of violence or intimidation I’ve seen on this board. And that’s saying something. Doesn’t take much for the mask to slip, does it?

  • Rory

    ‘Repressed homosexuality’, Prince Eoghnan? Well I wouldn’t know much about that I’m sure. But if you read Michael Stone’s ghosted autobiography you might find reason to support such speculation. Not that there was any repressed homosexuality, according to bold Michael, as far as the fragrant Johnny Adair was concerned. According to Stone, Johnny was only too happy to give physical expression to his diverse sexual tastes as it suited him.

    As long as it makes ’em happy, I say.

  • Padraig Óg

    Ahh The Glorious Twalf

    A true carnival experience. I’m so glad you’ve won all that funding

    http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=188804874&p=y888x558x

  • TAFKABO

    Every Christmas I always make a point of counting how many people tell me that actually, it’s a pagan festival then stand back with a smug look on their faces,as if they have just departed some hitherto unheard of gem of wisdom.

    Similarly, every July, we get wisacres announicing that the Pope supported William, and that William was a homosexual.
    Though I can’t see their faces when they say this, I imagine the expression they wear is not dissimilar to the self satisfied twats who think they just told me something I didn’t already know about Christmas.

    Having said that, these dullards are just that, dull.It’s not the same as the naked hostility and unmasked hatred displayed on this thread towards Unionist and Protestant culture.

    Since people have decided for once to be open about their hatred, could they also be just as honest and admit that there would never be any place for Unionists in a united Ireland?

  • English

    Tafkabo,

    There might not be a place for unionists in the ‘union’, as England wants devolved governmentin England, Wales and Scotland and over here. The break up of the Union is in England’s interest, and Northern Ireland is most certainly the least desirable part of the Union to hold onto for obvious reasons.

    There would certainly be a place for Protestants in a United Ireland and many Protestants live peacefully south of the border. NI Protestants have more in common with people south of the border than people on the mainland – you are all Irish at the end of the day. Born on the island of Ireland = Irish! This is not rocket science, and the sooner the foolhardy Protestants of the North realise how everyone else (apart from themselves) perceives things, the better – they are Irish no matter how many flags they put up!

    The real question on everyone’s lips is whether loyalists would continue with their thuggery and criminality in a United Ireland. Hopefully the Garda and Irish Army would slap them down!

  • Kevin

    TAFKABO…..You are right on, its a plot instigated by the Vatican, and the only place for your cantankerous form of unionism is in the nearest garbage dump. What kind of place has there been for Catholics in the Protestant Ulster? Wise up.

  • TAFKABO

    So, to summarise the last two posts.

    One from English

    I need to shed my false consciousness.

    Patronise much English?

    (that’s right up there with Christmas is a pagan festival as far as the bore factor goes)

    Two from Kevin

    You started it.

  • Stephen Copeland

    TAFKABO,

    Are you auditioning for the part of Mr Angry in ‘Slugger – the Musical’, or something?

    You’re as incendiary as an Orange Hall these days … lighten up a little. Just cos one person posts a silly comment there is no need to go all ‘oooh-admit-it-you-hate-us-all towards the rest of us!

  • ps

    English

    “Northern Ireland is most certainly the least desirable part of the Union”

    Are you sure do dont mean engerland ?? with its millions of criminal aids-infested illegal immigrants ??, ive no sympathy for the english. I *really* do laugh every day i hear more illegal immigrant stories, england, esp london is one of the dirtiest cities in the world, engerland has become the human trash can of the world, ireland is now the 2nd richest country in the world. And if the english KEPT OUT of our affairs, we could sort things out.

  • Kevin

    TAFKABO…..You need to shed your paranoia, or maybe you could form a flute band and protest about those bad Catholics boring you, but don’t forget to apply to the parades commission. Get real you’ve been listening to those old Orangemen too much.

  • TAFKABO

    Nope, I’ve just been readong these threads.

    Stephen, one post?

    Open your eyes mo chara.

  • CS Parnell

    TAFKABO, no you started it when you came over with Strongbow.

    Okay, it’s an old one, but it’s too good to resist.

  • CS Parnell

    ps

    It’s good to see the radical tolerant revolutionary spirit of Woolfe Tone has passed on to you.

    Better hope those Orangies can swim when we drive them into the sea, eh?

  • TAFKABO

    Strongbow?

    I was always more of a Magners type of guy.

  • English

    TAFKABO,

    Yes, you could call it a false consciousness. You are Irish aren’t you? You were born on this island? You have an Irish accent and you like Magners Irish Cider! What else can you be, man? To claim you aren’t Irish is just plain silly! The qualification for being Irish is to be born on the island of Ireland.

    You, my friend, have been indoctrinated into believing something you are not! My children will be taught they are Irish, otherwise they will grow up all confused about things like yourself. They were born here (in Northern Ireland) on the island of Ireland after all, it really is that simple.

  • pith

    Finally we get to the key issue. Magners is really Bulmers but it can’t be called Bulmers outside the 26 counties because of another Bulmers (who make Strongbow). It’s a partition thing.

  • pffff

    English, oh wise one – I Was born in N ireland, I have a british passport, I have family in scotland and canada. What citzenship should i have ? please help me, I thought i was a british citizen, but thanks to your revelation, im totally confused now 🙁

  • TAFKABO

    English.

    I was born in the British Isles.I feel British, my passport says I’m British, I vote in British elections.The GFA says I’m British.
    Of course I’m Irish as well, I’ve never said otherwise, but I’m not an Irish republican, I have no connection to the Irish republic, I don’t identify with the Irish republic, I have no desire to be part of the Irish republic.

    Now, which part of the above is false exactly?

  • English

    pfff and TAFKABO,

    You are Irish, and I would say that in the next 20 years you won’t have a British passport either if the state has anything to do with it! We have tried home rule for Ireland as a whole before, it is going to happen soon. joint authority is the first step down this road.

    English

  • TAFKABO

    I would say that in the next 20 years you won’t have a British passport either if the state has anything to do with it!

    Aye sure, and it’s me that has the false consciousness……

  • michael Morgan

    Friday is Bastille day, birth of the French Republic and celebrated by republicans everywhere – except here of course and I’m not going to risk flying a French tricolour of blue, white and red* in case people think I’m an orangeman and break mywindows. The united Irishmen held a march through Belfast on Bastille Day 1792, my view is the orangemen simply dug up the Battle of the Boyne to hold their own commemoration. Nothing like original thought could darken their brows…

    *I’ve seen French tricolours being flown on the Shankill and Ballybean, but what the orangemen do is reverse the flag so that it becomes red, white and blue.

  • smirkyspice

    why does this tiny part of the world need more than two marches per year? can’t we compromise on St patty’s day for the nationalists and Twelfth july for the unionists. why can’t that be enough. tolerance and compassion goes a long way.

  • Stephen Copeland

    … I would say that in the next 20 years you won’t have a British passport

    If TAFKABO has any sense at all, within a few years he’ll be French!

    Find yourself a nice wee nana, TAF, realise that cidre breton is infinitely superior to any gassy shit out of Ireland, enjoy the liberté, égalité and fraternité that you get in a liberal secular republic, and let go of those haunting memories of the bleak dark north.

    😉

  • English

    If we English held marches for battles we had won we would be marching all year. I will have to check my history books but I wasn’t aware that Northern Ireland Protestants led by Gay Lord single handedly defeated King James’ Army. The way you all behave you would think that ‘false consciousness’ is endemic in the Protestant population here. How can we English ever thank you for winning this battle for us?

  • lol

    If English is English then im from the planet Zorg !!!

    Obviously a pikey with too much time on his hands

  • TAFKABO

    Stephen.

    I’m very happy to be part of this secular liberal republic.I already found the French missus.
    Both the UK and Ireland could learn a trick or two from the French.

  • smirkyspice

    English has added more value to this thread than you lol so behave yourself

  • English

    You must be from the planet zorg then. I know my identity and nobody can queation it, I am English and nobody can question it. TAFKABO, I’m interested to say that you feel British, what on earth does that mean? You have nothing in common with the Scots, Welsh and English – they have three seperate cultures and identities. There is no such thing as a British identity in my opinion. Apart from perhaps war time when the English needed to send the Scots, Welsh and Irish over the top to protect our green and pleasant land from the Bosh! We also needed the North of Ireland as it was an important piece of strategic land, which we no longer need.

  • irish

    Im from Wexford, and all I can say is thank the lord all you cretins are north of the border. I never want a united ireland, in fact i would rather a large wall was built to keep you lot out.

    Ireland plc is doing very well at the minute, no thanks to tou lot. And i dont want my country’s wealth to drop in order to subsidise you bunch of hooligans.

  • TAFKABO

    English.

    Since you don’t know me or my family background, you have no way of telling what I have in common with other areas in the UK.
    And for the record, many people from ethnic backgrounds in the UK often use British as a term to describe themselves, it’s not just Unionists.
    Don’t be so bloody arrogant as to think I need justify myself or explain myself to you.
    Let’s get one thing clear.

    It’s you that has a problem with my identity, not me.
    It’s your problem, not mine.
    It’s you that has to deal with it, not me.

  • honestly

    English, ahem just stop for a minute and listen…..

    Shhh.. if you listen carefully you will hear that *nearly* every country in the world despises the English with their dirty yellow teeth

    heres some viepoints from your GREAT allies the yanks, from the guardian

    “Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies”

    “your crappy little island full of shitty food and yellow teeth”

    “KEEP YOUR FUCKIN’ LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN’T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT’S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT”

    “Real Americans aren’t interested in your pansy-ass, tea-sipping opinions. If you want to save the world, begin with your own worthless corner of it.”

    “Hey England, Scotland and Wales,
    Mind your own business. We don’t need weenie-spined Limeys meddling in our presidental election. If it wasn’t for America, you’d all be speaking German”

    “Keep your noses out of our business. As I recall we kicked your asses out of our country back in 1776. We do not require input from losers and idiots on who we vote for in our own country. Fuck off and die”

    Source http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html

    If i were u id keep quiet……ssshhhhhh, *nobody* in the WORLD cares anymore what the English think.

  • English

    Irish,

    No please take them from us, it is your land after all.

    TAFKABO

    You are fooling yourself because you have been indoctrinated. I pity you!

  • Stephen Copeland

    TAFKABO,

    Playing Mr Angry again.

    Someone is really in need to anger-management classes!

  • English

    honestly,

    Do you think I give a flying **** what either you or a yank would think?

  • TAFKABO

    It’s all in the perception.

    I’ve noticed a tendency of people to remark on my mood, or how they interpret it from my posts of late.
    I can only guess that wishful thinking has some of you imagining me sitting here like a wee internet Trimble, going purple with anger.
    Sorry, it’s not like that really.

    I happen to find the comments of English really funny, the trick is to play along to the point where his goading makes him look like the idiot.

    That point was passed a while back.

  • Ulsterman

    English,

    Do you think I give a flying **** what either you or a Limey would think?

  • Stephen Copeland

    TAFKABO,

    … I’ve noticed a tendency of people to remark on my mood …

    That would be me, amongst others.

    I remark, because it disappoints me that your points appear to get lost in a haze of rage. Maybe you’re not really angry, but your posts seem that way. You sometimes make good points, but not when you’re in your ‘angry’ mode.

    Try to stay calm and reasonable, and the discussion will go better from everyone’s point of view.

    Maybe while you’re at it, you could stop trying so hard to defend the obvious expressions of sectarian b1gotry too …. just a thought.

  • CS Parnell

    Actually I thought TAFKABO’s response on Strongbow/Magners was quite good (though I am crediting him with both knowledge of Irish history and Faulty Towers – otherwise he’d just be a boor who got lucky)

  • TAFKABO

    isn’t it annoying when someone tells you not to get angry,and you weren’t angry to begin with, but if you react to their comment they just say see, I told you you were angry…

    Stephen.

    By all means, continue to post suggestions of how I should post and what stand I should take on different subjects.

    I’ll try to print out your suggestions and wipe me arse on them when I get the chance.

    To sum up, in my bestest, nicest, most calm and rational smiling voice…….

    Would ye ever fuck away off and patronise someone else you pompous twat?

    (Not angry)

  • The observer

    Stephen mate, I would hazard a guess your either dead ugly with rotten teeth, confined to a wheelchair or get no pussy (maybe u prefer anal?). (delete as applicable)

    otherwise why would you hang around here like nobby no-mates trying to annoy people ????

    Get a life !

  • loftholdingswood

    So TAFKABO, did you have a good twelfth?

    “English” – as someone who has many English friends I can’t help feeling that you are a wind up job. Not all English people are as naive as you, the opposite in fact. Many thousands at various celebrations today, all very welcome and sure to have a good day.

    Hope everyone gets home safe and sound.

  • English

    I happen to believe what I write to be true, dismiss this if you like, I would expect you will because you have been indoctrinated. The NI protestants are ‘British’ – whatever that is – by circumstances. Northern Ireland was an important part of Empire strategically I admit that, but now it is no longer wanted. Read the Good Friday Agreement, why did the government sign up to that if we value and cherish Northern Ireland. It was not a master stroke by Sinn Fein, we are all for it as well, why else was the likes of Peter Hain appointed?

    The vast majority of people in England would not consider you to be fellow citizens or countrymen – you are considered Irish. Most people consider Northern Ireland to have been a thorn in our backsides for some time, in case you didn’t realise. We will continue to govern and with it cut back essential public services, but joint decision making with the Republic is just around the corner. We just hope that the day will come.

    Will people still celebrate the 12th in a united ireland?

  • Prince Eoghan

    TAF.

    “Similarly, every July, we get wisacres announicing that the Pope supported William, and that William was a homosexual.”

    From this you summised that all Unionists are hated and would not be welcome in a united Ireland. Grow up pal. Loved the “internet Trimble” line though, mind if I steal it.

    English.

    Ignore the twerp who is hounding you. It is the same immature eedjit who has been on for a while. He changes his tag constantly. If it is the same loon, he comes out with hateful stuff on a regular basis. Notice how he became Irish and copied your POV, then became a yank. Don’t bite;¬)

    Anyway TAF, how come you’r not out sniffing the pissed up local orange bikes? Frig I would but They would spot me right away as a fenian I’m afraid, much too handsome you see;¬)

  • English

    “English” – as someone who has many English friends I can’t help feeling that you are a wind up job. Not all English people are as naive as you, the opposite in fact. Many thousands at various celebrations today, all very welcome and sure to have a good day.

    That’s a good un, you mean a few hundred dinosaurs from all over the country in Southport (virtually all from NI Protestant parentage) out of a population of over 50 million people. Get in the real World – the English do not care about the 12th July at all. We do like Paddy’s Day though – lots of cheap Guiness everywhere!

  • TAFKABO

    From this you summised that all Unionists are hated and would not be welcome in a united Ireland. Grow up pal

    I think you are making leaps and assumption yourself there.

    Anyway TAF, how come you’r not out sniffing the pissed up local orange bikes? Frig I would but They would spot me right away as a fenian I’m afraid, much too handsome you see;¬)

    I don’t know if that’s supposed to be a joke, but I find it sectarian, sexist, misogynistic and just downright offensive on so many levels.

    Catch yerself on, there’s no need for us to talk about each other in these terms.

  • harpo

    ‘Born on the island of Ireland = Irish!’

    English:

    Then being born on the island of Great Britain makes you British.

    I take it that you aren’t into the idea of self-determination, under which peoples actually get to choose what they want, and things are not ordred by how others perceive other sets of people.

    I relly don’t care if thicko people like yourself have decided that anyone born on the island of Ireland is Irish. It doesn’t make it true just because you and your fellow thickos believe it to be the case.

    We can all engage in such nonsense, to the point where we all personally decide what other people are. But what’s the point in it if large numbers of people don’t agree with the way that you have sorted the world (and what they are) out?

    Are those who call themselves Canadian not actually Canadian, but actually American because they come from the geographical region called nother America?

    I’d just like to know who died and appointed you ‘he who decides what everyone is’?

    ‘NI Protestants have more in common with people south of the border than people on the mainland’

    Do they? Please provide some evidence of this.

    I was born and raised in NI, and I had no relatives in the ROI. I did have relatives in London, Leeds and Edinburgh. So could you please tell me exactly how I had more in common with folks in the ROI than with folks in the rest of the UK, including my family, with whom I had lots in common?

    Be specific – exactly what did I have in common with people in the ROI, and how is this ‘more in common’ than what I had in common with folks over in GB?

    You are talking glib nonsense. If you are about to repeat ‘but you were born on the island of Ireland’ then that’s true, but that’s one of the few things I would have in common with an Irish person in the ROI. I didn’t go to a Catholic church, I didn’t learn Irish at school, I don’t know anything to do with the Irish language, I didn’t play GAA sports, I wasn’t interested in traditional Irish folk music. I went to a Protestant church, learned British history in school, spoke and write in English, played football, rugby and cricket, listened to rock music, much of it British.

    Growing up I was exposed to much of what any British kid was exposed to. I have happy memories of watching the BBC and ITV, watching Top Of The Pops, listening constantly to BBC Radio 1, following English football (Match of the Day and the Big Match etc), being allowed to stay up late to watch Sportsnight, reading lots of books and watching lots of movies about WW2 and how we (the Allies including the British) won. I spent lots of time with relatives who served in various branches of the British services in both WW1 and WW2, learning of their experiences, and I recall on many occasions standing in the rain at a War Memorial on Nov. 11 as a youngster to honour our British war dead.

    I’d say my youth was much the same as any other British youngster in London, Plymouth, Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow.

    Maybe you could explain how it was more like the youth experiences of some kid in Cork or Limerick for example. Just because we were born on the same geographical feature (the island of Ireland) doesn’t mean that we are the same people. Does it?

    And while you are at it, maybe you could explain what is so different about the Irish, given that we NI Prods are supposed to be more like them, and not like folks in GB. So far as I can see, they are fairly British, except for a few things like traditional music and GAA sports. In fact some clown was on another thread here saying that NI Prods are not distinct from the Irish because they don’t have a separate language, since we all speak English. That doesn’t prove that NI Prods aren’t different from the Irish – if anything it shows that the Irish are really British.

  • frank

    orange order leader bobby Saulters accused the government of “pandering to paramilitaries” during his speech today.

    Why then, does his organisation pay and hire paramilitary bands to take part in orange parades and why do they allow lodges to commemorate mass murderers like the shankill butchers ?

  • The Dentist

    English

    How yellow you you rate your teeth ??

    Stinky yellow or Brownie Yellow

    Or matbe you dont have any left you gobshite

    The GFA is an INTERNATIONAL agreement which ENSHRINES the principle of CONSENT. Losts and lots of studies put the support for NI to remain in the UK as around 75%, so if you have a prob with that write to mr blair

    PS Why do the English have manky yellow teeth, is it all the earl grey you drink ??

  • The Observer

    Stephen=English= a jerk who is probably wanking off to all these posts (think alan partridge dressed in leather – you’ll get the drift)

    SC get a life please m8, but even if u dont, dont worry, its only an old wives tale that you go blind from extreme masturbation.

  • Prince Eoghan

    TAF. You posted;

    “Every Christmas I always make a point of counting how many people tell me that actually, it’s a pagan festival then stand back with a smug look on their faces,as if they have just departed some hitherto unheard of gem of wisdom.

    Similarly, every July, we get wisacres announicing that the Pope supported William, and that William was a homosexual.
    Though I can’t see their faces when they say this, I imagine the expression they wear is not dissimilar to the self satisfied twats who think they just told me something I didn’t already know about Christmas.

    Having said that, these dullards are just that, dull.It’s not the same as the naked hostility and unmasked hatred displayed on this thread towards Unionist and Protestant culture.

    Since people have decided for once to be open about their hatred, could they also be just as honest and admit that there would never be any place for Unionists in a united Ireland?”

    Posted by TAFKABO on Jul 12, 2006 @ 12:36 PM

    You then got slagged for being so serious and dour faced by nearly all and sundry.I posted;

    “TAF.

    “Similarly, every July, we get wisacres announicing that the Pope supported William, and that William was a homosexual.”

    From this you summised that all Unionists are hated and would not be welcome in a united Ireland. Grow up pal. Loved the “internet Trimble” line though, mind if I steal it.

    English.

    Ignore the twerp who is hounding you. It is the same immature eedjit who has been on for a while. He changes his tag constantly. If it is the same loon, he comes out with hateful stuff on a regular basis. Notice how he became Irish and copied your POV, then became a yank. Don’t bite;¬)

    Anyway TAF, how come you’r not out sniffing the pissed up local orange bikes? Frig I would but They would spot me right away as a fenian I’m afraid, much too handsome you see;¬)”

    You responded;
    “From this you summised that all Unionists are hated and would not be welcome in a united Ireland. Grow up pal

    I think you are making leaps and assumption yourself there.”

    I’m not actually, you clearly say it in the above post.

    “Anyway TAF, how come you’r not out sniffing the pissed up local orange bikes? Frig I would but They would spot me right away as a fenian I’m afraid, much too handsome you see;¬)

    I don’t know if that’s supposed to be a joke, but I find it sectarian, sexist, misogynistic and just downright offensive on so many levels.

    Catch yerself on, there’s no need for us to talk about each other in these terms.”

    Posted by TAFKABO on Jul 12, 2006 @ 05:47 PM

    TAF.

    Have you had a humour bypass? Or is the fenians under the bed mentality meant that you never had time for mucky books?

    I give up *throws in the towel* catch ye when ye’r better looking.

  • kensei

    On the topic of this thread, going outside at 4 o clock today to go to the only shop open in Belfast City Centre (facing the Europa) was an oddly scary experience. Not a lot of people around bvut those that were about were variously built like a barrel, completely drunk, carrying Union Flags or mixture of above.

    I also wouldn’t mind this half as much if everything didn’t completely shut down. Tourist attraction? Er, you kind of need stuff open for that to work.

  • la la diddle de dee

    “..two foreign ould monarchs
    in battle did join
    each wanting his head
    on the back of a coin
    if the irish had sense
    they’d drown both in the Boyne
    and partition throw into the ocean..”

    Could never have put it better meself…

  • smirkyspice

    i was on the dublin road at 10:30 this morning watching drunks stumble down the street towards city centre, at city hall i watched young men and women swilling bottles of beer and smirnoff ice..the air reeked of alcohol and smoke and this is before noon..blue rangers and linfield shirts outnumbered the ‘orange’wear i expected..it did not seem like a happy all inclusive event to me.. how many more marching days are there? i’d like to be able to walk the ormeau road without drunken shaved head gobshites giving me evils… i can’t see anyone putting this on the NITB brochures any time soon..

  • common tater

    All the social dynamics of kindergarten…

  • English

    harpo,

    My opinions are based on the fact that:

    a) I have lived and worked in various towns and cities across England and was born there.
    b) Being English I have a pretty good idea about what my fellow English friends and countrymen think about NI.
    c) I live here in Northern Ireland, and my job involves a lot of contact with the general public. I cannot tell the difference between a Catholic and Protestant here unless someone was to tell me their religion. You live in the same region, talk the same, have a similar sense of humour, and Irish culture. You often think you are different, but really are not in general, both sides hold a lot of false preconceptions. Likewise, people in border counties I have met have a very similar sense of culture and humour -enjoy a good wind up etc. This is a foreign place compared to England, you have nothing in common at all with people from Liverpool, London, Leeds for example (three cities admitedly very different from one another to begin with) or myself as an Englishman. You don’t know what you are on about, and the only people who understand reality are people from Northern Ireland who has lived in England or vice versa. I am entitled to my opinion of the people here, just as you may have an opinion of England.

    I raise a toast – to the Irish, the bally lot of ya! Goodnight!

  • Rory

    “…William was homosexual”, TAFKABO advises us at
    12.36pm above. King Billy a woofter! Good God, imagine that. He kept it hidden I suppose but that would explain the speculation on repressed homosexuality in the Twelfth rituals – all that make bonding, the dressing up, the funny wee wiggle as they parade down the road and the heavy masculine sexuality of the drumming.

    It really is time that good King William was allowed the dignity of his sexuality and then all his supporters could come ‘out’ as well and end all this sublimation in crude atavistic ritual.

    Bring the LOL back to its true roots!

    Make Orange pink!

  • TAFKABO

    I of course have no knowledge, and even less interest in whether Little Willy was a gaymosexual or not.
    Other than wondering at the bankruptcy of ideas if this is the best people can come up with as an attempt at baiting or insult.

    There’s been many a fine Poof in Irish life throughout the ages.Only homophobes see it as relevant.

  • scotty

    I am an American who recently returned from a short trip to Belfast. And, on a day like today–the 12th, is it not clear that marching through the streets and declaring dominance over your neighbors is unacceptable? Loyalists, who are you? I know, of course, your history, and I am better versed in the troubles than you may think. But where is the future in this? I am from the South in America. My hometown was named after the founder of the KKK. I am proud of the progress that Americans have made in ceasing racism—- Loyalists, what are you going to do to improve your society? It is clear that these marches don’t help. And, billing them as a cultural event is a farce.

  • TAFKABO

    Congratualtions on ceasing racism.

    Who is going to go into your penal system and let all those black men hear the great news?

  • Brad

    Scotty

    They know all of this, but they’d sooner disembowel themselves with blunt cutlery than admit it. In N.I. admission of any kind of guilt is a hanging offense. As is apologizing–except when it’s a nationalist who has to apologize for a perceived slight, in which case the unionist will never accept it anyhow.

    The loyalists know that marches don’t help. That’s exactly why they keep on marching. Any other reason they give is baloney.

  • all that make bonding, the dressing up, the funny wee wiggle as they parade down the road and the heavy masculine sexuality of the drumming.……….

    and a soggier version of the Halloween Parade in the Castro Distirct.

    These parades of celtic celebration do have the yin/yang of a strong homoerotic/homophobic struggle. Take the New York St. Paddy’s parade for instance.

    It has become a yearly tussle with lace curtain Irish-America and the gay-lesbian contingent. The ILGO slipped into the parade in 1991 and were shunned by the hoity-toity bigwigs in the grand marshals box who turned their backs as the group marched by. Malachy McCourt later pointed out that presenting the backside at that time can be construed as a sign of latent homosexuality.

    The ILGO now marches in Queens.

  • Rory

    Good comeback at 10.09pm, TAFKABO.

    I’m glad to see your mind has been distracted from your earlier obsession with dental cosmetics and your need to hand out advice on the unlikeliehood of continual masturbation to have deletorious effects on one’s eyesight. Advice gleaned from personal experience is always most appreciated.

    I shall now retire happily (and with enthusiasm) to my bedchamber with a portrait of King William and a large box of tissues, safe in the knowledge that I shall greet tomorrow’s breakfast paper visually unimpaired.

  • TAFKABO

    Rory.

    I think you have mistaken me for someone else (and I don’t just mean someone who gives a shit), I mean another person on this thread.

    Here’s a clue for you.

    All my posts have the word TAFKABO in red letters at the bottom of them.

  • seanniee

    If the 12th is so important,how comes no one in England knows anything about it.And by the way
    how come the Women look so unattractive.

  • TAFKABO

    My Birthday is very important, but hardly anyone knows about that.

    What exactly is your point?

  • Stephen Copeland

    TAFKABO,

    One very obvious point that I would have expected you to see is that the so-called gorious revolution, that the Boyne was supposed to have ushered in, was not limited to northern Ireland. It was, supposedly, a British coup d’état.

    So why, in Britain, is it entirely ignored or forgotten, whilst our stuck-in-the-17th-century cousins are still so excited about it?

    PS your birthday is not important, except to a very limited number of people. I fail to see any connection between it and July 12.

  • Stephen Copeland

    Bugger, another html faux pas.

    Moderator …. ?

  • scotty

    TAFKABO,
    To your point, racism in the American penal system is a problem…true. However, there has been real, notable progress in this, and other areas of racism in America. So, my question stands—what real progress have the people of NI made in this respect, and how in the hell could you assert that these marched help accomplish this goal in any way?

  • Stephen Copeland

    Html fix (I hope)

  • Who is going to go into your penal system and let all those black men hear the great news?

    It ain’t limited to the penal system, Sparkie.

    Why do you think we need all those laws against it?