Numerous attacks on the Cityside in Derry…

Not sure what’s going on in Derry at the moment. One Polish man was beaten and threatened to move out of the Fountain Estate in Derry. Meanwhile the estate itself remains under threat from outside attack.

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  • Nevin

    and, sadly, there’s more.

  • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/07/ndadsarmy07.xml

    Hope the above is not out of order. But it would be nice if people stood up to these toe rags. Further, it seems to be that attacks on foreigners are much more common in the 6 cos than in Britain or the 26 cos. Sectarianism “moves on”.

  • fartrick

    spud jackson is stirring the shit in the fountain….as he always does…the houses there should be tumbled and a great big car park built instead

  • Prince Eoghan

    My partner and I were doing a bit of sightseeing around Derry, by car and foot last month. The only flag that I saw in evidence was a Trinidad&Tobago flag, which gave me a wry smile, as my allegiances were similar in the run up to them playing England.

    After the obligatory snoop round the shops, I decided to check out the walls and environs, had to drag the misses along as it was all very boring she felt. This all changed on stumbling literally, into the small fountain area. Wow, thw Chinese flag makers aren’t going to go short of work while these guys are around. We couldn’t hang around for very long as my partner felt very uncomfortable and intimidated by all the orange type flags. She is from Bridgeton in Glasgow, an area which has seen a few loyalist flags in it’s time.

    My personal view is that what you see is what you get, insread of just getting on with enjoying life. Every lampost etc seemed to have multiple flags, and the idiotic wall mural. Something about being stranded on the west bank among the untermenshen, only serves to show hatred and anger to their fellow towns/country folk.

  • Nevin

    Taigs, I think it’s territoriality and it can express itself in sectarianism, racism, homophobia, etc.

    The pressure here rises when the constitutional question is asked and falls when the protagonists decide to have a lie down. But it’s there for a range of other reasons too so it’s easy to jump to the wrong conclusion for particular incidents.

    It’s intensity is likely to be related to population density, population mix, historical precedent, government, individual and group initiative and response and media coverage.

    Folks will be wary of standing up to the toe-rags, especially in areas where the toe-rags may be part of the paramilitary network.

    There needs to be a combined response from community leaders and organisations, agencies of the state and ordinary folks. If folk’s rights are to be respected then greater emphasis will to be placed on folk’s responsibilities; rights and responsibilities go together but they appear to be out of kilter.

    I used to spend a lot of time generating what might now be called social capital by direct action; now I attempt to influence those who are in position to make a change – hopefully for the better.

  • páid

    I think we have to try and understand the thinking of the Fountain lads who allegedly attacked the Poles.

    They see the Poles as moving in, slowly but surely on their territory.

    There’s a real danger their numbers will grow.

    They might build up their own mini-town in the Fountain, getting tradesmen from Warsaw or wherever.

    Then they’ll have there own little colony, call it WarsawFountain most likely.

    They’ll speak Polish down the generations and remain loyal to Poland.

    But then the tide will turn and they’ll find themselves cut off and outnumbered.

    A gang of foreigners will move in and threaten them.

    So the men of WarsawFountain will give them a kicking.

    And a new section will be opened in Derry’s museum.

  • Rory

    Well thanks for that observation on unchecked human societal development, Pid.

    My only quibble is that since man first turned from hunting and gathering to animal husbandry and tillage of soil we have had recourse to structuring society towards better ends for all. Not always successfully of course and we can all think of examples where it went woefully wrong – but by and large, we try, we do our best and quite often, against all the odds, we get it right or as near right as bedamned given our limitations.

    Yet for all my anger and self righteousness on this matter, I too am left feeling impotent and without an inkling of a solution but what self-righteous anger, rage and impotence might provoke.
    I simply do not know what to urge for the best and I suspect many feel the same.

    A start might be a competent,efficient police service dedicated to serving all the community. Our political masters however show little sign of any concern in their minds for such progress and their mealy words without any subsequent action only serve to betray their disinterested cowardice.

  • páid

    An eloquent and fair response Rory.

    My little quibble relates to “our political masters”.

    IMHO they are our slaves.

    We elect them.

    And I’m a big fan of whoever said that the people get the politicians they deserve.

    But mankind’s destiny changed when we started writing things down. Now every generation has the benefit of the knowledge gleaned by our ancestors.

    And we are starting to use it. 🙂

  • Brian Boru

    Now the Poles know what the Catholics have had to put up. Disgraceful behaviour from Loyalist thugs. Why does this always seem to happen in Unionist areas? Is this based on the Catholicism of the Poles?

  • Rory

    Brian Boru, although the question, “Why do the Loyalists forever carry on so?” might naturally rise in a man’s mind and an obvious answer -= “Because they don’t have the Taigs to kick around anymore and need to search out some other weak defenceless community” might then respond in the mind – uttering those thoughts doesn’t really drive matters forward.

    But then I am at a total loss as to what other solution to offer so I can’t really complain of your expression of anger – can I?

    Pid, I do not think that you elect your political masters in NI or indeed that you are given any choice or say at all on the matter – a pro-consul of the Imperium dictates there. I will not labour you further with my opinions on choice of political masters in Western democracies at large – that is for another time.

  • fartrick

    even telegraph poles arent safe from the fountain crew…..

  • Mainlander

    Prince Eoghan,Brian Boru, Rory, Pid, Nevin and Others,

    Not one of you has mentioned the second part of this post re the attacks on the Foutain estate from their nationalist neighbours.

    When you condemn violence, it should not be an either/ or situation (I feel like I’m lecturing to children here, rather than intelligent commentators).

    The attacks on the Poles were wrong, the continuous attacks on the Fountain estate are wrong, but the really sad thing is that I think it has never even entered your minds to make a comment on the second part of the post.
    Why?

    Don’t worry, lads, that’s only a rhetorical question.

    Like you Rory, I’m at a loss to see what way we can move things forward, but in the meantime, keep up the sanctimonious posturing, if nothing else, it’s an education to read here on a daily basis just how exactly Unionists collectively are viewed by our nationalist and republican neighbours.

  • páid

    Mainlander,

    well for my part I enter the politics of condemnation and condemn attacks on the Fountain. As one (literally, not metaphorically) looks down on it from the City walls, it doesn’t much look like a priveleged ascendant community. Not nowadays at any rate.

    As for your tougher question on why I didn’t think to condemn it well…..good point.

    I will reflect on that.

  • Nevin

    Mainlander, Mick F covered the attacks within and on the Fountain. I pointed out that, sadly, these weren’t the only attacks on the city side. I then went on to make some general points about territoriality.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Mainlander.

    I was telling of my experiences, wierd as it was the whole area(couple of streets) is surreal. I guess that I felt this area seemed to be at odds with a city on it’s doorstep, really right in your face, “what are you going to do about it” kind of thing.

    I’ve been to loads of places in the six counties and seen places bedecked with flags and murals. To walk from a serene city centre, under the wall gateway and witness the fountain was something else. I condemn all the sectarian goings on there.

  • Rory

    I condemn any attacks on any citizens by any other group. I did not notice the second article. But in any case the discussion on the thread mainly concerned the attack on a Polish household in the Fountain and then more broadly the whole issue of the epidemic of attacks on foreign nationals in NI generally.

    I also did not bring in any mention of racist attacks in London, Kossovo, India, China or anywhere else but then I thought it better to stick to the issue at hand – racist attacks in NI.
    Should I apologise for that?

  • Mainlander

    “I did not notice the second article”

    Why not, Mick’s original post was only three lines, your attention span is surely not that short?

    “also did not bring in any mention of racist attacks in London, Kossovo, India, China or anywhere else but then I thought it better to stick to the issue at hand – racist attacks in NI.
    Should I apologise for that?”

    Only if you are being selective within a Northern Ireland context about which kind of racist/sectarian attacks are to be condemned.

    And only you’ll really know this for sure; I can only form my own personal opinion from what you’ve decided to “notice” on this thread and elsewhere.

  • Brian Boru

    Is this what Loyalists mean by “keeping Ulster British”?

  • Rory

    Since,Mainlander, you choose to imply heavily that I was lying when I replied honestly that I did not notice the second thread all further dialogue between us is now suspended pending your withdrawal and apology.

  • Mick Fealty

    I don’t think s/he was implying you were lying Rory. Let’s try and keep some perspective here. But s/he is picking up something that any outside observer would pick up on. The second story might not have existed until a ‘third party’, so to speak. mentioned it.

    The systematic intimidation of Protestants on the Cityside is well documented and long term. But it doesn’t seem to register with people here, whatever the reason.

  • Mainlander

    Rory,
    Like I said, only you can know if you employ selectivity when deciding upon type of attacks you will comment on, that is not an implication that you’re lying in my book.

    “all further dialogue between us is now suspended pending your withdrawal and apology.”

    For the reason mentioned above, then I don’t think we will be having any more chats in the future. But having read on other threads your “forthright” opinions to be perfectly honest, I don’t think that dialogue with people from my kind of background is why you come on here anyway.

  • Briso

    MF:
    >The systematic intimidation of Protestants on
    >the Cityside is well documented and long term.
    >But it doesn’t seem to register with people
    >here, whatever the reason.

    Got any links Mick? My impression of the attacks on the Fountain is that they are being carried out by a large group (50 ish?) hard core young hooligans who are making many peoples lives a misery, and not just in the fountain. Ask Pat Ramsey about them. Are you talking about the Fountain situation or something else?

    I also believe the attacks on the Polish are because they are seen as a trojan horse. If enough of them move in local Catholics might start to move in too. The Fountain really does feel under siege.

  • Rory

    Mainlander,

    I think you miss the point. I said that I did not notice the second part of the thread. I did read the three lines but only opened the details of the first item not realising there was more. I accept that that was a mistake on my part. But it was your outright rejection of a simple truth I told that constitutes extreme bad manners.

    You have every right to challenge any argument I may make or any opinion I may express, indeed that’s why I come on the site – for just such an exchange of differing minds – but if you challenge my word on a simple matter like my explanation of an error I had admitted then that leaves little hope for any courteous exchange of views.

    However if you mean by your above post that your words were not intended to imply that I was lying then I accept that and apologise if I have misunderstood you.