More on suspension

The Irish News on Monday had some more detail on my fathers suspension from the Orange institution.

An internal critic of the Orange Order has said he is alarmed that an organisation “claiming to stand for civil and religious liberty” could suspend one of its most senior members.

The Rev Brian Kennaway was speaking after it emerged that Colin Shilliday has been punished for criticising two prominent Orange officers.

Belfast county grand master Dawson Bailey and grand master of the grand orange lodge of Ireland Robert Saulters were widely condemned for their reaction to rioting following the contentious Whiterock parade last September.

It is understood Mr Shilliday, a former Grand Lodge treasurer, has been given two one-year suspensions – the first for berating Dawson Bailie and the other for criticising Grand Lodge officers.

Mr Kennaway, an Orangeman who published a book in April which is highly critical of the institution, said a new paragraph was added to its ‘law 13’ in September 2000 allowing the grand master to suspend or expel any grand lodge member if the person had offended the institution as a whole.

  • Michael

    The amended rule is probably fair enough as rules go. Can’t have senior officers bad moutihng the top brass. The OO is not the UUP.

    Michael is a kinda odd name for an Orangeman’s son. Not as “bad” as Mary or Biddy though I suppose. Anyway, I hope the rest of the comments are to your liking and you are not too upset about this. Maybe time for your pop to move on, take up pigeon racing or whatever.

    As for me, only crap soccer games on today. POrtugal and Holand should be a cracker but I can see the Poms getting past Ecuador. At least the English ref got the boot. Hey, the World Cup ends on July 9th, just in time for the 12th 14th.

  • pid


    I increasingly understand the Unionist point of view.

    Some people need to look at their National flag and ponder what it means.

  • Rory

    I might agree with you, Pid, if had any any idea of what on earth you’re going on about. Was that an attempt to write a new rival to The Da Vinci Code? Go on! give us a clue.

  • Loyalist

    Kennaway at his work again backed up by the Young Unionists. Very good.

  • reality check

    kennaway is only exposing the dark side of the orange order.loved the pic of billy mccaughey marching abd the orange volunteers colour party marching through crumlin.does the truth hurt loyalist?

  • Loyalist


    In one sense the truth does hurt – I am ashamed that people like McCaughey were ever in the OO: but neither me, not Dawson Bailie, nor anyone else for that matter can be held responsible for the behaviour of people like McCaughey.

    My objection to Kennaway arises from the fact that he is motivated principally by personal malice towards Saulters and secondly by animosity to the political view of the majority of OO members. Brian didn’t give two hoots about plitical influence in the OO when it was the private property of the UUP, but God forbid that people with a DUP-inclined outlook should be present in the leadership.

  • Peking

    How shall I put this.
    Are we going to get a new thread everytime your da gets a mention somewhere in the press?
    We’ve been over this ground so many times before.
    If this saga was ever interesting it certainly isn’t any more.
    Give it a rest, please.

  • Loyalist

    By the way, I don’t seem to recall Brian Kennaway standing up to defend Joel Patton when he was (rightly in my view) suspended from the Institution. You see the problem – when its a pro-Trimble, pro-Agreement, Ulster Unionist supporting, dissident, Brian will run gurning to the press, but not when its anyone to the right of him. The man is being hypocritical in his approach.

  • reality check

    loyalist-surely saulters could have expelled mccaughey for his past.what is the orders policy on paramilitary/ex paramilitaries convicted of crimes?

  • Loyalist


    Charges against private lodge members, must come from within their own lodge. Personally, I don’t want anyone with paramilitary connections in the OO.

  • peter


    I would have thought that Mary or Biddy was a kinds odd name for anyone’s son be they Orange or any other hue.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Are we going to get a new thread everytime your da gets a mention somewhere in the press?’

    I would hope so. Is it not noteworthy? I very much think so.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “loyalist-surely saulters could have expelled mccaughey for his past.”

    No, he couldn’t- there is a grassroot level up disciplinary procedure- and in any event the word you use is “past”. The Grand Master’s power to disipline anyone is strictly limited to offences against the institution, so he couldn’t expel anyone for example convicted of theft.

    BTW reality check, what is your view on disciplining for paramilitary offences committed by members of, oh I dunno, let’s think of an example-hey, what about Sinn Fein? (That should see the back of him -“reality check” is famously blind to any republican criminality)

  • Michael et al

    just to avoid confusion on this thread and others Peking (see post 7 above) may share my name but he is not me.

    As far as I am concerned you post on whatever you want regardless of how compromised your objectivity may be.


    forgive my ignorance, but is there an “offence” of bringing the institution into disrepute?

  • tiny

    Remember Shilladay had resigned proir to suspension, that’s what makes the whole situation so daft and the Orange Order appear stupid and badly led which was what Shilladay said in the first place!

  • Loyalist

    To say Kennaway has only criticised the Order because he’s “motivated principally by personal malice towards Saulters and secondly by animosity to the political view of the majority of OO members” is, in my opinion, untrue.

    Just because Saulters votes for the DUP doesn’t mean he’s a great Orange leader or something. The DUP, in my opinion, has shown more leadership qualities (whether you regard them as ‘good’ or ‘bad’ qualities) than Saulters has in recent times.

    The DUP has certainly shown more strategic thinking than either the UUP or Orange leadership, and I’m not convinced you’ve correctly identified the motive for Kennaway’s objections at all.

    Anyway, the Order seems to be adopting Kennaway’s recommendations over time anyway – greater responsibility, increasing dislogue, more accountability, remembering it’s a religious rather than political organisation, and so on.

    Kennaway has been too easily dismissed by some Orangemen as publicity seeking, but his pronouncements seem to have more to do with the old Presbyterian idea of bearing witness. The message might not be popular, but sometimes, it needs to be said.

    Kennaway may have been disowned by the Order, but it seems to have heard him…


    Here the Irish News article. Terrible to see brehtenr quarrelling when Taigs are still lwalking the streets unmollested