Ammunitions find probably linked to Libyan shipment

It appears that the 10,000 rounds of ammunition found in Sligo last week were part of a Libyan shipment from the 1980’s.

Gardai confirmed last night that the find bore all the hallmarks of a Provisional IRA arms dump which had probably been established in the 1980s and forgotten since. The ammunition had been concealed in a Wavin-type pipe which had been sealed with tar onboth ends.

It’s a fair bet that this is not the last time we will hear about this kind of find as it seems quite plausible that as time goes by, those repsonsible for hiding weaponry will have forgotten about it or wont be around any longer. None of that diminishes the seriousness of the intent of the original shipment, but it is unlikely that this was any kind of purposeful cache for present day usage.

  • joeCanuck

    I agree Miss Fitz

    Baby Doc was ranting (nothing surprising about that) but there’s probably a lot more similar forgotten caches. Those that buried them could be long dead.

  • I think the English should declare war on Germany again. Mines deployed during World War 2 are occassionally washed up on beaches in the South of England.

    By Mini-me’s, sorry Ian Paisley Jr, thinking, the English shouldn’t trust the German’s because they didn’t keep strict records of how many mines were deployed and exploded. So there could be hundreds of mines still laying dormant in the English channel which resurface from time to time and get washed ashore. Is this a declaration of war?

  • Pete Baker

    Miss Fitz

    While it may be reasonable to argue that those responsible have since “taken the secret of the hiding place to the grave”.. is it really beliveable to argue that they simply forgot where they buried arms or, in this case, ammunition?

    Btw, Jimmy, the WW2 mines analogy is, like so many analogies, crass.

  • Harry

    44% of the population are to have their political rights postponed every time someone comes up with an arms find? Our moral legislators the unionists can lecture nationalists should there be even a whiff of an armed catholic about the place even while they themselves hold 150,000 guns and millions of rounds of ammunition?

    Nationalists have run out of patience with this transparent nonsense.

    Reminds me of the very first Penal law, passed in 1595 and which I spoke about before, which stated that any protestant on the island of Ireland could arrive at the house of any catholic day or night and search that person’s house for weapons, with confiscation and sanction to follow. 400 years later and they’re still going on about the illegality of even the concept of an armed Irishman on Irish soil.

  • Pete Baker

    “Reminds me of the very first Penal law, passed in 1595”?

    Yeah.. it’s just like general approach to religion throughout Europe at the end of the 16th Century out there… *sheesh*

  • Miss Fitz

    Actually Pete, I think it is plausible and likely that people could forget these things. Havent you heard of people finding pikes in the attic, or rusty guns in dung heaps?

    If you put something away, and dont intend to use it again, or it isnt required, it is not something to the forefront of your thinking process. I cant imagine you would wake up every morning, and think, …. now where did I leave those 10,000 bullets….. Once the immediate situation has past, the fact of the existence of something like this will fade.

  • joeCanuck

    What are you people over there doing at this time of the morning? go to bed and rest peacefully.

  • Pete Baker

    “I cant imagine you would wake up every morning, and think, …. now where did I leave those 10,000 bullets…..”

    Miss Fitz

    I can’t imagine that someone would stash 10,000 bullets without putting them somewhere where, if asked, they could immediately recall where they had stashed them.. especially given the potential repercussions otherwise.

    Otherwise the very act of stashing them would be pointless… the finding of [rusty] pikes in the attic and rusty guns in dung heaps is more likely covered by the other excuse.

  • joeCanuck

    Go to bed

  • Harry

    Shut up and implement the GFA you whingeing arseholes. We’ve had enough of your politically inspired shake-downs.

  • Pete Baker

    Joe

    Try not to be so patronising 🙂

    Harry

    Oh never mind…

  • joeCanuck

    I grew up in a mainly catholic town.
    During the IRA border campaign, a local shopkeeper who I was friendly with, had the police come in with a digger and dug up a considerable plot behind his shop looking for a buried arms stache.
    Nothing was found.
    Afterwards i asked him what it was all about. He confided in me that he wanted to establish a vegetable plot behind his shop but didn’t have the time or money to dig it up.
    So he made an anonymous call to the policer saying that there were guns buried behind his shop.
    What a hoot.

  • joeCanuck

    Sorry Pete

    I wasn’t trying to be patronising.
    I just value my own sleep so much. Regards

  • Harry

    Don’t you know that everyone in n. ireland sleeps with one eye open joe?

  • Pete Baker

    That’s alright, joe.. it’s just your exhortation seemed liked a request to shut down a line of argument.

    Enjoy your sleep 😉

  • Miss Fitz

    Pete
    The point I am making is that, yes for the first while its going to be a prominent memory, but ine that will not be sustained.

    We are now talking about 23 years or so since those arms were hidden in a pipe and sealed on either end. Any kind of scenario is possible. The chap who buried them now works abroad, and as this was not a cache that was being actively used, its importance diminished and it was forgotten about.

    I really find it amazing to think that you would have trouble with this concept! For goodness sake, its a completely human foible. People put things away in attics, storage facilities, other people’s homes and completely forget about them. You dont think about it until you need it, and if you dont need it, it fades.

    You have to look past the image of strict inventoried lists of arms and ammo and think in more human terms.

    Joe: I’m away to bed now….. oíche mhaith (showing off my fada) 🙂

  • Pete Baker

    “I really find it amazing to think that you would have trouble with this concept! For goodness sake, its a completely human foible. People put things away in attics, storage facilities, other people’s homes and completely forget about them. You dont think about it until you need it, and if you dont need it, it fades.”

    Miss Fitz, I don’t have trouble with the concept, but it’s hardly a human foible to stash 10,000 bullets, or whatever is liable to emerge, and then forget where you put them.

    I know that if I had done such a stashing I’d know damn well where I put them.. as I pointed out.. they were stashed with the intention of being used at some time in the future – as in “You dont think about it until you need it”.

    What’s missing in that scenario is the extensive consultation that preceded the complete decommissioning.

    Creating reasons why the location may have been forgotten becomes an exercise in creating an excuse.. it doesn’t address the reality that such a stash has been found before that potential intended use.

    It’s important to examine these details if grandiose claims [such as the complete decommissioning] are being made.

  • joeCanuck

    Pete

    I made a point earlier that the person who stashed those bullets could be dead.
    We have no idea.
    Given that they were armalite bullets and that the IRA long ago abandoned the armalite rifles in favour of their smuggled AK47s, I don’t see anything sinister here. Such stashes are going to appear for years to come.
    I’m not an IRA supportyer; far from it.
    But I accept the IMC report that says they put all the weapons under their control away.
    Are there still some weapons stashed away?
    You betcha! Deliberate or someone forgot where they are or is dead? Who knows. There are still a lot of UDA/UVF weapons around. Time to move on. There is a brighter future for those who want it!

  • Pete Baker

    joe

    “We have no idea.”

    That’s kinda been the point I was making.

    “There are still a lot of UDA/UVF weapons around.”

    I know.. have a look at my own posts on Slugger on that particular point.

    “Time to move on. There is a brighter future for those who want it!”

    *sheesh* Lovely.. Group hug everyone!!

    Optimism is one thing.. but unless it’s based in reality it’s meaningless.

  • joeCanuck

    No Pete

    No hugging.
    Get down to the business of establishing a society of equals where all democratic mandates are recognized.
    i know it’s easy for me to say, having abandoned N.I. in despair in 1981 because of the inabilty of the politicos there to reach even the teeniest of compromises.
    But do you back, try to maintain the “no comprise” or go forward?

  • Harry

    So the fact that unionists have 150,000 guns and millions of rounds of ammunition is so unimportant we’ll not even mention it; lets concentrate instead on 10,000 rounds of ammo found in a hole which are for a kind of gun which is no longer used?

  • Pete Baker

    Joe

    Don’t misunderstand my point.

    I’m all in favour of moving forward. But I object to the glossing over of unpalatable facts, from whichever quarter, in that process.

  • Shay Begorrah

    Pete Baker said:

    “Creating reasons why the location may have been forgotten becomes an exercise in creating an excuse.. it doesn’t address the reality that such a stash has been found before that potential intended use.”

    For those unable to translate the above Unionese into English ‘Until the last Republican has been hung in a Union Jack noose we can not be sure they will not take up arms against us.’

    Pete Baker then said:

    “It’s important to examine these details if grandiose claims [such as the complete decommissioning] are being made. ”

    Twaddle Pete, I hope you have the excuse of being drunk.

    We can guess that at least tens of weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition are still hidden or personally commandeered by former IRA members as this was a twenty five year conflict and hidden guns and ammunition will most likely be turning up for a century.

    However it is either dishonest or deranged to suggest that this is but a tiny proportion of the arms that the IRA gave up or that it is evidence of a plot to lull Unionists into a false sense of security.

    On a side note I feel nauseated reading this Unionist cant week after week and it has robbed me of any sympathy I might have held for your position.

    It is clear that nothing will satisfy you, you will accept no responsibiity for the troubles, you can accept no genuine nationalist complaint worthy of violent resistance against Britain (ever) and you have no shame about the obstacles you will raise in order to prevent Republicans entering government.

    You have blown peace before, you can do it again.

  • Dualta

    Was it not the case that Mickey McKevitt was the IRA quarter-master at the time of the Libyan shipments?

    If it was the case, then we can assume with some confidence that he did not reveal the locations of some arms dumps when he defected at the Gweedore meeting.

    It may have been a PIRA dump at one stage, but it may have become a RIRA dump post-ceasefire.

  • Tommy McKearney has some wise words to say about nutting UDR people in Fear Manach. There is a family paid dearly for being on the wrong side of the border.
    Have all of the bullets smuggled in by Nelson and MI5 been recovered yet? Can our sundered brethern use their influence with UVF/UUP and DUP/RHC to carify, por favor?

  • Pete Baker

    Shay

    Thank you for your incorrect interpretation of both my position and the points I raised regarding the speculation – from all concerned – on the circumstances of this ammunition find.

    On a side note, the extent to which individuals will attempt to label those they disagree with here on Slugger as ‘one of themmuns’ in order to dismiss a line of argument without addressing it is depressingly familiar.

  • kensei

    “On a side note, the extent to which individuals will attempt to label those they disagree with here on Slugger as ‘one of themmuns’ in order to dismiss a line of argument without addressing it is depressingly familiar.”

    What precisely is your line of argument? 10,000 rounds of ammo for a gun that has not been the weapon of choice for teh IRA for many years is evidence of a grand conspiracy?

    It isn’t creible. For a start, you’d have to be mad to think that “total decommissioning” is going to get every bullet, weapon and ounce out there. There is going to be stuff held back by individual members, stuff lost and probably the odd cache in case there’s another late 60’s.

    Decommissioning, as we have endlessly told you is a symbollic move anyway because guns can be acquired (terrorist or otherwise – England has a growing gun crime problem) and bombs can be made out of fertilizer. If the process is going to be stalled by every single bullet that turns up, or every single act doine by a “Republican”, we might as well give up now, because we’re going nowhere.

    For the eight billionth time, the future needs built, and doesn’t get handed to you on a plate.

  • Fraggle

    Hold on, isn’t Sligo where top loyalists have fishing lodges?

  • Sharp_Shooter

    Yip, fishing out parts of Lord Mountbattens wreck…

  • Betty Boo

    There might be even more finds.

    “Arms control on the Aran Islands”
    http://www.villagemagazine.ie/article.asp?sid=1&sud=10&aid=1643