• Fenian Bastard

    Best suggestion I ever heard at the height of drumcree tantrum was that the residents of the garvaghy road paint an enourmous potriat of QE2 all the way across the road and then tell the brethren “failte”.

    Love to see the OO try work out how not to march all over her face.

  • Harry

    Twelve fellas on a rooftop with their arses painted green, white and orange mooning as the parade passes might also be an appropriate response.

    Humourous if a lttle controversial.

  • Harry
    I’d a similiar idea, but the adding of the tri-coloured arses tops it. Have loads of fun ideas, like SF turning up to the Hain Assembly wearing Ian Paisley face-masks. Sitting outside Stormont, doing some street theatre/impressions.
    In the absence of anything remotely like a functioning democracy, you might as well have a laugh, stop yerself cracking up.
    The whole thing’s a joke, so isn’t the answer to have a joke, and thereby expose the hypocracy?

  • derek de kont

    How about letting the orangemen walk through any nationalist area where they will allow a Catholic priest to bless them with holy water.

    I mean if King Billy could accept the best wishes ( and funds) of the pope, and use all those catholic troops from Limburg…..

  • TAFKABO

    Can’t help but think that most of the suggestions so far are more concerned with heaping scorn upon one party to the problem.

    All this does is illustrate perfectly that there is more than one party to the problem.

    Mt Levee is spot on of course, in that we need a solution that rivals Alexander solving the riddle of the Gordian Knot.
    I think what we need to do is task both sides to come up with a solution that meets the other sides needs adequately.With the side that comes up with the most workable and generous solution getting to have veto over which of the two solutions is applied.

  • tamsin nipplethwaite

    That sounds very reasonable TAFKABO and in seriousness gets my vote..

    However, people who demand to walk through areas where they arent wanted are off their feckin trollies.

    A protestant Portadown woman on talkback some years ago was most eloquent.

    “The protestants here want nothing to do with catholics, we more or less penned them in on the Garvaghy road, and now we want to march over them singing ” Safe in the arms of Jesus””

    whats it all about.

  • Ciarán Irvine

    TAFKABO: we already have a solution that has worked well in Derry wrt the Apprentice Boys marches. Basically the loyal orders agree to talk to residents and local businesses beforehand, organise and steward their parades properly, and drop the raving triumphalism in favour of explaining and celebrating the historical and cultural aspects of what they are doing and why.

    Once the Apprentice Boys started actually talking about the historical significance of the Siege and the cultural and human interest in the tale of the original Apprentices that shut the gates and the suffering that those inside went through for their beliefs, nationalist Derry collectively went “Oh, right. Now we get it, completely understand lads, honouring the sacrifice of ancestors and all that, march away, just keep the busloads of drunken Portadown men under control please”

    If the Apprentice Boys can manage it (and the Blackmen), what’s the problem with the Orange Order?

  • TAFKABO

    Ciarn.

    Oh I agree that there can be no walking if there is no talking.
    I just ask that if I can accept that the right to march is not an absolute right, and that it carries responsibilities, then other people accept that the right to be offended is not an absolute right either, and it must be reasonable objection.

    What I mean by that is that I agree with someone who says sectarian tunes or militarisitic bandsmen are unnacceptable, but I don’t agree that they can look into the minds of all marchers and discern a virulent hatred of catholics.

  • I agree, there is the “right to work”, and people should also have the “right not to work”.

  • Global

    Quite simply it is up to the British and Irish governments to make it plain that since republicans have abandoned all hope of United Ireland WITHOUT the consent of the majority, it is time for the nonsense to stop.
    The average middle class prod is frankly embarassed by the nature of band parades .. they can deal with the 12th because of folk memory ..
    Therefore, they should tell the UPRG/PUP/Local headhunters that all grants will be stopped until parades go through areas where they are acceptable.
    Take a riot or two or three or four to get it under control but it will turn out alright.
    Republican baiting will be the problem.

  • Aidan

    Turn it into a toll road with the 50p pieces going into a giant money box that’s a statue of the pope.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Republican baiting will be the problem

    Yes it does get tiring when they moan about not being able to use their own streets/shops, damned annoying.

    The average middle class prod is frankly embarassed by the nature of band parades .. they can deal with the 12th because of folk memory ..

    Why vote for politicians that don’t encourage dialogue between human beings then?

  • Global

    You think middle class prods vote? Are you real?
    O mi God ..not the barred from shops and forced into the house scenario again? Horrific.
    Catch a grip.

  • McGrath

    Why not take the same approach the US Government has taken with KKK marches?

    The KKK and the OO draw a reasonable parallel.

    During a trip to the US, someone asked me were there many black people in Northern Ireland? I answered no, he asked why not? I stated that we are so racist in Northern Ireland we don’t even like white people.

  • bertie

    The black orangemen who visit for the 12th seem to be well received and give enry impression of having had a great time.

  • Pat

    Why can’t the Orange Order and the Loyalists come out and state that they have no objections to Nationalist parading through “Their” areas, as it is put by Mr Levee.

    Nationalists have over the years been BANNED from parading in most areas and have only in the last 10-15 years been able to parade into Belfast City Centre so it can’t be unreasonable for them to not want people who have done their best in killing them to have the freedom to parade over them!

    The Equality issue needs to be tested to the full and so Nationalists should organise parades through Unionist areas to see if there is true Democracy and Equality or whether the legialation it is not worth the paper its written on.

    If Nationalist from Ligoneil wanted to parade into Belfast along the only road that can get them there would the Unionists living along the 500m stretch of road that they would have to go down accept them? would they be OK with the Nationalists parading 150m past their homes and then getting on a bus to be taken to other locations?

    Would the Unionist people who live on a 150m stretch of the Springfield Road object to Nationalists from Ballymurphy and the Upper Springfield taking a direct route past their houses to get to the Falls Road or would they be accommodating?

  • Dec

    A simple suggestion: let the OO foot the security bill for each parade.

  • frank

    “The black orangemen who visit for the 12th seem to be well received and give enry impression of having had a great time.”

    As long as they are only visiting

    If they moved into Unionist Areas of Belfast they might well get a petrol bomb through their window.

  • TAFKABO

    Again, I have to say that the hostility and aggression from nationalists in this thread lead me to conclude that they are not interested so much in a solution as perpetuating the problem.

    I wonder when they will be ready for peace?

  • Nevin

    Talking of parades, is Philip McGuigan, North Antrim MLA, the loose cannon in the Sinner AC armoury? Apparently he had to be slapped down by Comical Marty in Dunloy last July and in Ballymena last August. What are his and the AC plans for Ballycastle this July? Do they hope to turn Ballycastle into another Dunloy? And will they all have a hangover in Glasgow next weekend?

  • Jimbob o Hara

    Simple.

    Ban all sectarian marches.

    If an illegal march goes ahead, send in the Paras.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    TAFKABO

    “Again, I have to say that the hostility and aggression from nationalists in this thread lead me to conclude that they are not interested so much in a solution as perpetuating the problem.”

    I suppose the question you have to ask yourself TAF is, are nationalists wrong to be hostile to the Orange Order?

    Someone said earlier that there can be no “winners” on the parades issue. I think that’s wrong – clearly, as things stand, nationalists have won the parades issue. The loyal orders, once the backbone of unionism, have been abandoned by young “respectable” unionists. The whole world concurs with nationalism’s opinion of the Orange. The Parades Commission has survived a decade of concerted unionist attack. Its settled policy is one of “no talk, no walk” – and until the Orange accepts that and does as the Apprentice Boys and Black have done -ie talk to their fellow human beings – then they won’t have their marches.

    If things go on like this for another ten, twenty, thirty years, who really thinks that young unionists of any kind of calibre in the coming generations will want to sign up to be led by illiterates (like the ones we saw in Sept last year) on a march to nowhere?

    Make no mistake – nationalism has won the parades issue. Any future marches in Garvaghy Road/Ormeau/Springfield/Dunloy etc will be with nationalist approval. Triumphalism has been trumped.

    All that is left to do is for the Orange to accept this new reality and move on – or continue to wither away to nothingness.

    Either way, why are nationalists wrong to be untroubled by the invidious position the Orange finds itself in?

    (And by the way – have you come up with a definition of what you mean by “Nationalist Front” yet? Or are you still sticking with “they know who they are…”?)

  • TAFKABO

    Billy.

    If I didn’t have a definition of what I meant by the phrase, I’d never have used it.
    I think what you meant to ask was had I decided to submit to your demand that I explain myself to your satisfaction.

    Sorry, but you’ll just have to live with the fact that I shall continue to use the phrase when and were I see fit.

    As for the rest of your post.I am not questioning anyones right to be hostile to others, rather pointing out that they are more interested in maintaining the hostility, when it would be in all our interests to find a way to diffuse it.
    I get the impression from your post that this is a zero sum game for you and the Nationalist Front.
    That is unfortunate for us all.

    History is going to be repeated, since so many have set their faces against meaning from it.

  • TAFKABO

    meaning ought to be learning in that last post of mine

  • Ken A. Biss, Finland

    I have a suggestion: why don’t they get up a collection in (wealthy) Ireland and charter a few planes to take the whole lot of them over here to Finland for a march. They would have lots of routes to choose from, such as the Helsinki Marathon route. No one here would mind; thanks to Lordi, we’re getting used to weird. And we’re 90% Protestant, so they wouldn’t have to suffer the sight of too many Catholics.

  • Benn

    So the negotiations in Derry got quick mention in this thread and just as quickly faded. There is an interesting element to a negotiated parade in that each side can claim at least partial victory, and each side can claim to be a partial victim. There does seem to be a certain aura around that dynamic that’s been getting fairly regular mention in the media, the “Derry model.” Obviously it can’t work everywhere, it’s not a one-size fits all kind of thing, and there will be those for quite some time that profit from dysfunction. But why not more support for sorting things out locally, and then linking between Clubs and Residents’ Groups around and about so that constructive solutions become mutually supporting? Right, it won’t solve all the problems, etc. etc., but solving some is better than none, yeah?

  • Billy Pilgrim

    TAFKABO

    “If I didn’t have a definition of what I meant by the phrase, I’d never have used it.”

    But why, pray tell, would you refuse to give us all a definition of what you mean by “Nationalist Front”? What purpose is served by not explaining what you mean by your signature phrase?

    Frankly I don’t believe you – I think you use the phrase as a calculated insult to the entire nationalist community, and you relish the opportunity to be flagrantly sectarian, albeit with the micro fig leaf of a lack of clarity.

    But I’d be delighted if you proved me wrong…

    “I think what you meant to ask was had I decided to submit to your demand that I explain myself to your satisfaction.”

    Well, that seems a rather melodramatic way of putting it. (Downright teenager-ish, in fact.) You have a signature phrase. I’m unclear as to who or what you mean by it. Why won’t you do me the courtesy of clarifying what you mean?

    If the shoe was on the other foot, I would consider it a matter of my own intellectual self-respect to be able to explain what I say.

    How’s your intellectual self-respect these days?

    “Sorry, but you’ll just have to live with the fact that I shall continue to use the phrase when and were I see fit.”

    Then I’ll keep asking.

    But your response is unserious. I still suspect you’re just name-calling, and your refusal to explain your rather vague catchphrase is nothing other than cowardice.

    But again, I’d be delighted if you were to prove me wrong. I’m waiting…