UUP/UVF to blame for shooting?

The speculation is mounting that the paramiltary organisation linked to a member of the Ulster Unionist Assembly party committed this afternoon’s shooting in Mossley. Shall we await with baited breath the imminent announcement of an emergency IMC Report? What prospect is there of fines being introduced for the political party in question? And are those pigs flying outside my window??

  • Gum

    Will Lady Sylvia have her salary and expenses docked in Westminster? And before any UUP supporters get tetchy – does consistency (not to mention avoindance of hypocrasy) not require it?

  • TAFKABO

    If this turns out to have been the UVF, then the UUP deserve everything coming their way, and not just from nationalists.

    Mr Haddock may survive this attack, the UUP on the other hand……

  • Unsurprisingly the story hasn’t made it to the UUP website yet. I’m curious to see if Reg can continue to justify the association with the PUP following this. He surely knew it was coming sooner or later.

  • Nevin

    Chris, does the UVF ‘Army Council’ imagine itself to be the ‘legitimate’ government of Ulster? Does it manage the politicians of the UUP in a manner similar to the Sinner AC’s management of its parapoliticians? Or are you just having a little grunt?

  • whodunnit

    Maybe the “It wasn’t sanctioned by the leadership” defence will be employed.

  • McGrath

    The timing was deliberate, the objective was to throw shite at the UUP. Who benefits from that?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Nevin: “Chris, does the UVF ‘Army Council’ imagine itself to be the ‘legitimate’ government of Ulster? Does it manage the politicians of the UUP in a manner similar to the Sinner AC’s management of its parapoliticians?”

    Neither here nor there, Nevin. The party of law and order, with malice of forethought, climbed into bed with the political representatives of Loyalist terrorists, some ephemeral political gain. They chose to lay down with dogs… they have nary a leg to stand upon now that they may have woken up with fleas.

  • elfinto

    Another embarrassment removed for the RUC Special Branch. And Nuala O’Loan’s report hasn’t even seen the light of day yet? Drinks all round for the boys!

  • Nevin

    Dread, the pan-unionist and pan-nationalist ‘projects’ have included paramilitaries; they’re all flea-bidden, including the governments.

    Would you expect the PUP to make the same political gains as those other parapoliticians, SF?

  • Nevin

    I meant to type ‘flea-bitten’ but maybe ‘flea-bidden’ is appropriate!!

  • Tw*ts at Cunningham House: Look; Listen; and, Learn. Look at this thread; listen to Republican gloating; for God’s sake, learn what a mistake it was to become the political wing of the UVF.

  • Peking

    “… malice of forethought.”

    That should be malice aforethought, idiot.

  • Yokel

    We already have the model for the response, it’s a la Denis Donaldson. Unofficial shooting, not sanctioned….Reg will call it internal housekeeping as he did that one as well.

    Forget the grand theories over collusion and cover up on this one or doing it for political ends. Haddock was going to go down for a long time incident and there was a fear he’d take quite a few down with him eventually to Magherbery. Nothing more deep and clever.

    Conspiracy theorists can move to their next topic.

  • Nevin

    Karl, the UUP has not become the political wing of the UVF just as the SDLP did not become the political wing of PIRA.

    I’d say that both moves were mistakes but lesser mistakes than the governments’ pandering to the paramilitary godfathers. The ‘not ruffling paramilitary feathers’ strategy left local politicians and government agencies IMO with much less clout than the agents of mafiaism and fascism.

  • Gum

    Its not about conspiracy theories Yokel – its about the main UUP excuse for not sharing power when others accused them of not wanting to share power with Catholics. And Nevin: it shouldn’t make a difference whether the party with links to paramilitaries have a chance of getting into power. That leaves it very subjective as to how much terror is ok and when it can be resorted to.

  • Nevin

    Gum, I think it’s important to make a distinction between parapoliticians (PUP and SF) and politicians. Sadly, the two Governments often appear to pay more attention to the parapoliticians, presumably because they wish to contain the cancer of paramilitarism to NI.

  • BooBoo

    UUP MLA Roy Beggs Jnr has said: “The perpetrators of this barbaric act must be swiftly taken off the streets and subjected to the fullest rigour of the law.”

    And if it turns out to be the UVF, will the boy Beggs resign the whip of the Assembly group which includes the UVF’s political front?

    Some very bloody beaked chickens are coming home to roost at CunningPlan House in the next few days.

    As Alex Kane noted on Saturday (and a North Down source tells me that Empty and the Major are extremely pissed off with the stance he took); the UUP’s fortunes are now in the hands of terrorists.

    I presume the Assembly group is now praying that the Speaker gets them off the hook by declaring the May 15 Pact as a non-starter.

    Too late, guys. Empty and the Major have completely f***ed up what’s left of the party. The damage has been done now and voter memories are not as short as the CunningPlan House strategists would hope.

    I note with no surprise at all that the Young Unionist typing pool has been very quiet tonight. What’s the problem boys? Has the Major not spoonfed you your lines for the night. What an incomparable shower of toadies and lickspittles you really are!

    BooBoo

  • Nevin

    BooBoo, Kane had previously pointed out that unionists were in the hands of terrorists:

    [i]With unionism caught between a rock and a hard place – power-sharing with republicans or governing by some type of joint rule – Mr Kane claimed that “in the long run” Direct Rule is “not preferable to Sinn Fein in the Executive Committee”.

    “British-Irish partnership is also not an option. It is not preferable to Sinn Fein in an Executive Committee either.

    “And super-councils, with no Assembly to monitor and curb their activities, are not preferable to Sinn Fein in an Executive Committee.

    “The choices we face are not palatable ones. But behind the rhetoric and beyond the anger we need to face up to the reality that we are not masters of our own destiny.

    “The primary task of unionists is to ensure that we are best placed to protect and promote our own interests.”[/i]

    More

  • elfinto

    So what should happen if it was the British Government/RUC/PSNI/UVF? Should the Brits pull their rotten regime out of our country for once and all?

    The Ombudsmans office investigates this as it stinks to high heaven (pardon the fish realted pun). The attacks on the UUP from the equally paramilitary linked DUP are pretty cheap in my opinion.

  • Nevin

    So where are the clean hands, elfinto?

  • observer

    elfinto: “our country”?
    whose, the gaels?
    The gaels were just as much settlers as the planters , just more uncivilised and barbaric

  • Nevin

    Jim Allister DUP – the descendant of a Scots Presbyterian from the Lowlands of Scotland or a Hebridean galloglass from an earlier era?

  • prophet

    Matthew 26:52

  • vern

    I wonder was the person responsible for shooting uvf/special branch agent, Mark Haddock also a uvf/special branch agent ???

  • canadian

    vern

    You haven’t been paying too much attention over the past while obviously.
    It seems that all of them (the leaders anyway) are or were Branch agents.
    So, in answer to your question, if it wasn’t a special branch agent who did the actual shooting, then it was probably ordered by one (or one of their paymasters).

  • elfinto

    In the recent papers disclosed in the Irish News Merlyn Rees was quoted as telling Thatcher that ‘sections of the RUC are close to the UVF’. That was in 1975. More than 30 years later nothing has changed. RUC/PSNI/UVF strike again.

  • fair_deal

    A reference to the group of policemen the likes of Billy McCaughey was involved with. As the spotlight programme into them showed were subsequently arrested and convicted of a number of serious charges.

  • kensei

    “Would you expect the PUP to make the same political gains as those other parapoliticians, SF?”

    Straw Man. Try Again.

    “Gum, I think it’s important to make a distinction between parapoliticians (PUP and SF) and politicians.”

    Nah. It’s important to differentiate between those with a mandate and those who don’t. Everythig else is irreleavnt. It doesn’t matter who “runs” SF – people voted for them in large numbers. They represent the people who voted for them, and not the IRA. Common confusion, glad I could clear it up.

    The attempt to find some moral justification is quite amusing, though.

  • Dec

    A reference to the group of policemen the likes of Billy McCaughey was involved with.

    And how, pray, can you be so sure of that?

  • Loyalist

    Readers should note that Shilliday and Crowe’s article justifying the UUP link up with the UVF have been removed from the YU Blog. I wonder why?

  • fair_deal

    Dec

    The consistency between the timeframe of the comment and their activities. Activities government were aware of because it is known there was an informant among their ranks.

    They were also not the only members of the security forces convicted either. I have figures at home I’ll dig out later.

  • PeterBrown

    Nevin

    Did SF/IRA actually join the SDLP Assembly Group? I think not….and yet the SDLP is still sinking without trace. Compare apples and apples not apples and oranges please

    Peter Brown

  • Rory

    If the shooting proves to be fatal and tomorrow’s tabloid headlines scream Haddock’s had his Chips! or Haddock sleeps with the Fishes!, few, I suspect, would mourn his passing and anyway that seems to be the lot of loyalist paramilitary celebs, but an opportunity to uncover more about the truth of the collusion between Mr Haddock and government agencies will be lost and that will suit some no doubt.

  • Newton Emerson

    The UVF-UUP articles disappeared off the Young Unionist website over the weekend – which is even more mysterious than if they’d been pulled last night.
    Anyone regular posters from the YU care to explain this?

  • To all the UUP eejits, didn’t some of us give ourselves RSI telling you not to link up with the UVF?

    I’m sorry to see that the Shilliday and Crowe threads have been removed from the YU blogs. Such nonsense needs to be preserved for posterity.

  • Loyalist

    Newton

    They’re all in hiding for fear of reprisal attacks.

  • ed

    There seems to be a few pages missing from the YU website, so I presume it is some sort of technical problem, unless there are those in the YUs who had incredible foresight over the weekend!

    On a more humourous note Pete Baker’s link on the other thread still works to the Young Unionist thread entitled “Self Serving Nonsense”, which is quite funny to read now, arrogance of the title says it all really.

  • whodunnit

    My 7.30pm post yesterday evening

    Maybe the “It wasn’t sanctioned by the leadership” defence will be employed.

    From the UTV website at 13.31 this afternoon

    UTV has learned that top loyalist Mark Haddock was shot by UVF members. But sources say the 36 year old`s attempted murder was not sanctioned by the organisation`s leadership.

    Why can’t I be as good with lottery numbers?

  • joeCanuck

    whodunnit

    Maybe it’s because to win the lottery, one has to pull the numbers.
    Here, a number is being pulled on us.

  • Nevin

    Peter B, there are similarities between Hume’s link to paramilitaries in the Hume-Adams initiative and Empey’s one in the UUP assembly group. They were both presented as drawing them further into the political arena and away from doing what they do best.

    The appeasement strategies of the governments severely weakened the UUP and the SDLP so it’s very difficult to link cause and effect.

  • Peter Brown

    Nevin

    At least Hume brought the Republicans into the fold and did so slowly – the UUP is bringing the animal in from the wild into the house and up to the fire and expecting it to already be housetrained and domesticated and surprise surprise its already had an accident on the rug! If you are going to use this approach like SDLP we shouldn’t be giving out the rewards before the task has been completed or this is what happens……

  • Nevin

    Peter, this ‘accident’ is rather smaller than, say, Canary Wharf. I don’t view any of the paramilitaries as being very well house-trained!!

  • Peter Brown

    So why let them into the house and in particular why let them stay when they do this? If SF/IRA did this they’d be booted out the door – why is this smaller than Canary Wharf? On the casualty scale it’s bigger than Stormontgate so why react differently? Because we’ve cosied up to these terrorists….

  • heck

    I hear Martin Ingram is claiming that it was Martin McGuiness wot done it at the direction of Ms Moneypenny. Expect the Belfast Bellylaugh to take a break from is condemnation of harp larger smuggling along the border to call for the government to come clean on McGuiness’s involvement with the PSNI/UVF.

  • Nevin

    Peter, it didn’t work for Hume and the SDLP so I don’t think it will work for Empey and the UUP. There is currently no Executive so it’s a bit difficult to make a comparison with Stormontgate.

    BTW, I was dining in the Causeway Hotel on that fateful evening when in walked Empey, Farren and Parlon – and a coterie of civil servants. The waiter kindly turned off the background music so that I could overhear a little of their exchange. Sadly, I got invited to join the threesome before much was revealed!!

  • gareth mccord

    i wonder why ervine has said he doesnt know who shot haddock. then the next day after u.v.f. spinning he says it was not sanctioned by the leadership? so will the u.v.f. deal with its members who shot haddock or are they worried if haddock survives they want to cover the tracks and say they didnt order the hit. i want haddock to live be in very bad health for the rest of his days and then id and nail his shooters [edited – moderator]

  • dunsurfin

    Bah got a tip off that there was a name here but its been moderated before I got here…them pesky kids

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