Religion, expections and University

The University of Ulster has published research into the effect of religion and gender on attitudes to attending University. The group least likely to want to go to University are young protestant males and protestants are less likely to receive encouragement from parents. The BBC summarises the main points here.

  • Dec

    Young Protestant males less likely to go to University! Who’s up for a week-long riot?
    Followed up by millions of pounds of Government grants for everyone (except the taigs, natch).

  • Occasional Commentator

    Young Catholic males less likely to do a day’s work after school, instead drinking for a few year’s at taxpayers expense! Who’s up for a week-long riot?

    🙂

  • kensei

    “Young Catholic males less likely to do a day’s work after school, instead drinking for a few year’s at taxpayers expense! ”

    Yeah, that £13,000 student loan debt I have is at the tax payers expense, there. I just pity anyone who started with top up fees too.

  • Occasional Commentator

    I just noticed a misplaced apostrophe in my comment. Guess my education wasn’t that great. 🙂

  • Fraggle

    You only noticed one of your misplaced apostrophes?

  • lamh dearg

    “Researchers said Catholic parents seem more likely to push their children towards further or higher education.

    Protestant families believe their children could use family or friends to get good jobs in industry, they add.”

    Surely this has been so since the 1947 Education Act on one hand and the inception of the state on the other?

  • David

    Industry?

    In Northern Ireland???

  • Rapunsel

    Fair Deal
    I haven’t time this morning to rad the whole 133 page report. But to be clear– I’m not sure that the report is analysing the effect of religion and gender. Surely this is ultimately about the culture and attitudes prevalent in different communities towards education. This is not a product of religion per se. The negative attitude towards education in the
    Protestant community is surely not a product of Protestantism? In the same way that in my experience the negative attitude towards education in some catholic working class communities is again not a product of being working class. There’s a real challenge here and some of it must be about how to support parents , how to intervene with educational support as early as possible, how to improve schools. I worked as a community worker a good few years ago and a study we carried out was that children froma certain area weere only half as likely to pass the eleven plus as those in other post code areas of the same town. The significant correlation was between income deprivation and pass rates. We started a number of programms to support children and parents essentially from 0 – 18 , Life start, after school study support, linkages with the main primary school — all working well and making changes to lives, but you know the usual story no one was prepared to support these interventions in the longer term, no one seen as we did that the intervention needed to be the norm in this community for many years , sadly in many communities this is what is happenning , short term interventions whose progress is then lost

  • Occasional Commentator

    Fraggle, which is the other misplaced apostrophe? Should I have said “few years” and “taxpayers’ expense” ?

  • Crataegus

    Rapunsel

    Life start, after school study support, linkages with the main primary school—all working well and making changes to lives, but you know the usual story no one was prepared to support these interventions in the longer term, no one seen as we did that the intervention needed to be the norm in this community for many years.

    I agree with you on this issue and I fail to understand why such projects are not supported. It is obvious that if the parents have limited skills and resources you need to supplement the opportunities available to the child or the child is likely to grow up with equally limited skills and resources. We have to break the circle. You need all sorts of clubs and support mechanisms, you even need to ensure the children are properly fed, breakfast clubs etc. It is a dire problem and there is no expedient and easy answer other than hard work.

    I would consider myself working class in the sense that I have to work, but working class children in poorer parts have absolutely no chance when you compare the opportunities my own children have. I think our lack of action is criminal.

    We also need to look at the attitudes of some parents and some of them do need to act more responsibility. Buying your child crisps for breakfast on the way to school really doesn’t impress me. I think that what some, and I emphasise some, do is systematic child abuse.

  • hotdogx

    This is a dissapointing result if its true. Protestants in the republic are as successful or even more successful than their catholic neighbours, then again the republic is a normal place!!!

  • barnshee

    don`t want to end up in major debt and still end up in/Gem/Macdonalds/burger king AND miss out on 3/4 years experience -sounds like a goood move to me

  • barnshee

    “This is a dissapointing result if its true. Protestants in the republic are as successful or even more successful than their catholic neighbours, then again the republic is a normal place!!! ”

    What?? all of the 3% of the Pop??
    armpit

  • Crataegus

    Barnshee

    You raise an interesting point, there is an assumption that increased numbers at University is of necessity a good thing. I am less than sure about many of the courses on offer. The Universities are bodies with their own vested interests.

    In society a percentage are academically clever and are more likely to benefit form a good course at a good University. A percentage are not and we need a wider training programme with apprenticeships and proper trade qualifications if we are ever to have a truly skilled workforce.

  • heck

    I hate to bring this up again but is’nt this reflected in the unionist parties’ attitude to the 11+.

    Their view is that there are a few bright kids (overwhelmingly from the well heeled section of the protestant community) who can be creamed off and given a good education rather than the view that all childern should be educated and encouraged to maximize their potential.

  • Alan

    Heck,

    You’ve got it in one.

    There is an inexplicable paradox in unionist politics that accepts a damning prejudice against its working class adherants.This manifests itself time and time again in the parties’ attitudes to education.

    Instead of seeking the best education for all, they consistently seek to marginalise the opportunities available to the people of areas such as the Shankill and inner East Belfast. As far as the DUP seem concerned, they want everyone who fails to get into a grammar school to train as a plumber or a spark. There is no vision.

    Remember, as well as the appalling lack of consistency in terms of tackling this problem at school, we have just had the PAC ripping up DEL for their failure to provide support for these same kids when they leave school. Where is the campaign for change?

    I also agree whole heartedly with the need to support long term, community based education initiatives. That is what the ELB’s should have been doing, rather than studiously constructing their own little empires. There has been a consistent failure to mainstream key practical initiatives down through the years.

  • hotdogx

    hey, 3% maybee…are you sure sounds a bit small? even so that still makes 150,000 of us, And if all us southern protestants moved north there’d be a UI tomorrow, remember the republic was the creation of many protestants hijacked of course by the shinners…. and they get votes in NI the won’t get many in the republic i can guarantee you that. In normal countries political extremists dont generaly make it into government.

  • beezer

    Wonder what proportion of the land that 3% own ? ISEQ ? University Senate seats ?

  • Resolve

    Hotdogx !!!

    I like your idea of you guys coming up north. Come on up! You’re welcome in my place anytime. Not only could we secure a UI, but you could teach your co-religionists north of the boarder about the value of education!

  • Crataegus

    Alan

    Why do you think there is such a lack of real interest in sorting out the educational problems of children in the likes of the Shankill and may I also say Ardoyne, Newlodge lower Falls, Woodstock etc.

    The need is so obvious but there seems to be a callous indifference. Indeed there are all sorts of distractions like secondary reform which lack a proper context in an overall plan.

    With regards sparks nothing wrong with trades if the training produces a properly skilled workforce. I am more than slightly concerned with the emphasis being placed on University education. Its not suitable for many and really you are not doing people many favours by sending them there. We need good alternatives.