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Paisley positive, says no, but, yes, but…

on 9 May 2006 , 8:13 am 19 | 2 views

MARY Jordan of the Washington Post seems to suggest there’s still hope of Protestants following Paisley into an executive with Sinn Fein. From Ballymena, she quotes the Doc: “We have said no, and we have no apologies. We have also said yes to very many things.”

  • Cahal

    After thoroughly depressing myself reading about the young boy from Ballymena I wish I hadn’t read that story about Paisley.

    I’m going to close my browser now and avoid all things northern Irish for a few days.

  • Rubicon

    An interesting article in as far as giving the views of some of his supporters. One wants him to make the jump, another reckons he will some time and another doesn’t want the Doc to even speak with SF.

    It puts the Doc in a difficult position. He’ll be criticised whatever he does and he’ll not want to loose his party’s leading position. None of the supporters seemed to be in a particular hurry though and the Doc is playing this populist card – it looks like he’s biding his time, “If we break now, if we say, ‘All right, we will sit down with you now,’ then the cause is lost,”

    The next phase will be “We succeeded!” with much DUP mutual back-slapping. Anything else would be a self-admission of his policy’s failure. It seems he’s waiting for an opportunity to say “we did it!” though what that might be and when it might be is difficult guess.

  • bootman

    the Doc is playing this populist card –Rubicon

    Its the only he has ever played, hes not going to change his bigoted spots anytime soon

  • BogExile

    what an excellent, acerbic and unbiased piece of reportage from Mary who says Baig Ian:

    ‘..has vowed to “never, never, never” sit down with Roman Catholic political leaders, whom he considers “terrorists.’

    Did she mean to leave in the comma between ‘leaders’ and ‘whom.’ Thjs of course leads the constitutionally unsophisticated US reader to assume, Paisley thinks all Catholics are terrorists which i’m fairly sure he doesn’t.

    I know this is pedantry but I’ve nothing else to do…

  • The comments are turned off on the Bebo thread – but that was a proper Slugger scoop BG. Well spotted. I just hope that what is appearing on that site won’t be prejudicial.

  • Warm Storage

    Woodward and Bernstein would be soooooo proud. A truly woeful article.

  • GrassyNoel

    Yes, it’s so cruel and unfair to have Paisley portrayed as an angry unreconstructed bigot in the world media isn’t it? Tut tut.

    Then again, if the cap fits…

  • Warm Storage

    Actually, I was referring to the badly researched nature of the piece. Don’t presume to know what my objections to the article are, OK?

  • GrassyNoel

    What gives you the idea I was addressing you, or any poster in particular for that matter?

  • http://www.courtsni.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/68E48B53-0753-41EA-A924-BCED24C2266C/0/p_ICOS_Ballymena27Apr06.pdf

    Is there an even darker to Ballymena? And why call this guy “Dr” Paisley?

  • Warm Storage

    It’s just a hunch, but your use of the word “yes” infers that you were agreeing, albeit sarcastically, with another post, most likely mine. As I said, it was only a hunch. Perhaps I was wrong. I do apologise.

    By the way, this isn’t actually a response to your response to me (no. 9), which I now realise was not directed towards me, or any other poster for that matter, so it shouldn’t be interpreted as such. Much like yourself, I am merely crafting soliloquies for my own amusement. Glad the confusion’s all sorted. :o)

  • GrassyNoel

    It was more of a general response to the title of the thread and the article itself, although my own view of ‘Dr’ Paisley is a pretty negative one I must admit. I still cannot fathom how any sane Unionist failed to see how voting in Paisley and his merry band of Loonies was ever going to strengthen the position of Unionism in 21st Century NI.

    I’ve said it before on this blog and I’ll say it again..Ian Paisley is doing absolutely nothing and can do absolutely nothing for Unionism, or anyone in NI for that matter. He may continue to bellow ‘NEVER, NEVER’ for another few years yet, but that ain’t going to achieve f*ck all, not for the DUP, not for Unionism on a broader scale, not for anybody. And whether foreign journalists are or aren’t as up to speed as those of us who tune into NI affairs or not, the fact is that the man is seen as a complete Wacko by all & sundry outside of those who ‘support’ the DUP. On Channel 4 news a few months ago when they were discussing the new terrorism laws and how it would henceforth be a crime to preach hatred or to appear to be sympathetic to racist/sectarian terrorist attacks, his name cropped up nore than once.

  • lily

    “He insisted that he was not anti-Catholic….” Ha, that’d be funny if it wasn’t so tragically sad!

  • Rubicon

    Grassy – OK the “Doc” is a title the “Rev” hasn’t earned – though I didn’t use “Dr.” as you’ve complained about. Only you have used that. The “Rev.” will probably get as many critical comments that have nothing to do with this thread.

    Bog – on first reading I had the same interpretation as yourself – but after taking the comma out I wasn’t any wiser.

    WarmS – no, this wasn’t an investigative piece that revealed anything new. It’s a better representation of the journalism NI normally gets but well short of what it deserves. The time between now and Nov 24th should be one that journalists demand politicians answer hard questions. But this kind of media scrutiny just doesn’t happen here. It’s the corner Editors send their dumb heads to – and they’ve no need to wear the cap to be recognised.

    When will the media start asking hard questions? American ladies throwing cow-eyes at the “old” man (is “old” OK? – Ageist perhaps?) shouldn’t justify a bus fare to Belfast.

    But – lets not forget our traditions! The Europa is there to offer comfort to lazy-arsed journalists. I’m sure they’ll provide a SW radio too.

    It’s a tradition you know!

  • joeCanuck

    OK Rubicon

    Try this; remove the comma and put in the word “those” before Roman Catholic. The sense changes dramatically.
    As it stands, with the comma, the parsing of the sentence means that he considers all RC leaders to be terrorists.
    Now, to be fair, unless he said “comma”, or paused for effect, the interpretation, or linguistic mistake, belongs to the journalist.

  • Reader

    joeCanuck: the interpretation, or linguistic mistake, belongs to the journalist.
    Or to any reader who didn’t notice that the only bits actually in quote marks were “never, never, never” and “terrorists”. The journalist should take responsibility for the rest, including the unfashionable terminology.

  • joeCanuck

    Reader,
    At my stage in life, I’ve been involved in or witnessed a few events which subsequently came to be reported in the press. Subsequently, I take every thing I read in the press with a little pinch of salt.
    On the other hand, I’ve met quite a few people in my life who have said to me “It’s true! I read it in the newspaper.”

  • Paisley obtained a B.A. in Divinity from Pioneer Theological Seminary in Rockville, Ill. in 1954 and an honorary doctorate 7 months later. He also picked up a Master’s Degree from Burton College and Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado. Both of these places are bogus, disreputable mail-order degree mills. Even though he also received an honorary Ph.D. degree from the Bob Jones University of South Carolina in 1966, his actual ordination remains the subject of controversy to this very day: he claims to have graduated from a little-known Welsh seminary during the War. No matter from where he bought his degrees, his ordination was never valid under Presbyterian rules.
    Pailsey is a fake but a fake with a lot of blood on his hands. Recent events show the flow continues.

  • dodrade

    “Paisley obtained a B.A. in Divinity from Pioneer Theological Seminary in Rockville, Ill. in 1954 and an honorary doctorate 7 months later. He also picked up a Master’s Degree from Burton College and Seminary in Manitou Springs, Colorado. Both of these places are bogus, disreputable mail-order degree mills. Even though he also received an honorary Ph.D. degree from the Bob Jones University of South Carolina in 1966, his actual ordination remains the subject of controversy to this very day: he claims to have graduated from a little-known Welsh seminary during the War. No matter from where he bought his degrees, his ordination was never valid under Presbyterian rules.”

    Most of this is rubbish. The Wikipedia article on Paisley is more accurate.

    “Ian Paisley was born in the town of Armagh, County Armagh, and brought up in the town of Ballymena, County Antrim, where his father James Kyle Paisley was an independent Baptist pastor. His Scottish mother Isabella Paisley was instrumental in his evangelical conversion at the age of six. After completing his education at the Model School in Ballymena, he went to work on a farm in Sixmilecross, County Tyrone. During his time received a vocation to enter the Christian ministry. He undertook theological training at the fundamentalist Barry School of Evangelism (eventually renamed the South Wales Bible college), and later, for a year, at the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Hall in Belfast, though he graduated from neither.

    In 1946 he was ordained, in a ceremony at the independent Ravenhill Evangelical Mission Church on the Ravenhill Road in Belfast, by four ministers from four different denominations whose ecclesiastical authority from their churches to ordain is disputed. In the early 1950s permission for Ian Paisley to use Lissara Presbyterian church in Crossgar, County Down for a Gospel Mission was revoked by the local presbytery. Paisley claimed that this was because many within the Presbyterian Church hierarchy rejected the preaching of the Gospel. Presbyterians have tended to argue it was blocked because he was not a member of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland (the largest Protestant denomination in Northern Ireland) and in contravention of their code. In conjunction with the Lissara kirk session Ian Paisley helped to establish the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster at Crossgar, County Down. Following a vote in his own church he joined the Free Presbyterian Church and was subsequently elected its second moderator of the new denomination, a post he has held for several decades.

    Paisley is a member of the loyalist Apprentice Boys of Derry. He is a former member of the Orange Order. He resigned from it in 1962 in protest at the failure to discipline a senior member for attending the Roman Catholic Mass. He addresses the annual gathering of the Independent Orange Order every Twelfth of July.

    Paisley’s use of the title ‘Dr.’ derives from an honorary Doctor of Divinity degree awarded by the unaccredited Christian college named Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina. Bob Jones, Jr. was a close personal friend and a co-leader with Ian Paisley in the international Fundamentalist movement, and Paisley continues to maintain a friendly relationship with the institution.”