a Faustian pact

As the BBC report, David Trimble seems to have used the launch of Reverend Brian Kennaway’s book The Orange Order – A Tradition Betrayed to try to settle a few scores, accusing his enemies within unionism of seeing “the Orange Order, Portadown District and the Drumcree issue as a battering ram that they would use to destroy the Agreement”. The DUP’s David Simpson, in response, accused Trimble of having “manipulated the institution in many ways to get the leadership of the Ulster Unionist Party”.. and they are both probably correct.

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  • darth rumsfeld


    Kennaway says it’s a Christian organisation that lost its direction- yet he invites a political figure to launch his book, and inevitably gives serial loser Trimble a platform to parade his self pity and bash the DUP. Shome mishtake shurely?

  • willis

    Looks like the DUP are perfectly capable of bashing back.

  • Tampico

    With analysis like this its hard to see how Trimble ever failed.

    He is throwing stones in a very large glasshouse by accusing others of using the Orange as a vehicle for political gain.

  • Paul P

    Kennaway quite rightly condemns the Orange Order for failing to discipline those with connections to UVF, but then he daftly has David Trimble who relied on the votes of UVF/PUP representatives to become First Minister to speak at his book launch.

  • Rubicon

    Does this need to be understood in terms of the roots of Protestantism? It started as a protest and many choose to focus on the protest rather than what the protest was about.

    When it comes to God, I choose to believe what I choose to believe. What others choose to believe is a matter for them.

    The OO is an organised movement against freedom of thought. It opposes the Roman Catholic religion and its followers. I often wonder what would be left of it if Catholics didn’t exist. Unfortunately, some of their brethren have thought the same and taken action to that end.

    Why should the OO throw them out? Because they were correct in thinking but not in “doing”?

    Anyone who has watched an Orange march has seen the banners and associations with paramilitary groups.

    So the PIRA is required to become an old comrades association? Can it march with IRA banners then?

    Is this a positive future?

    Face it, the OO have been linked to loyalist paramilitaries. Any unionist politician needs to recognise that their marching under UVF banners and having their marches ‘policed’ by paramilitaries has diminished their credentials.

    Now … let’s count the unionists free of this sin …

    Ulster Protestantism is at risk of having forgot Christ for its focus on the Pope.

    The OO doesn’t need to return to its roots – it murdered then. It needs to find an identity that is founded on themselves.

    The OO has a case to make for state funding for cultural activities when flying UVF flags and handing out BNP material.

    Wilson my have described Ulster as scroungers from the exchequer – but should he have stopped there? Can you really scrounge your cultural existence on the existence of another culture?

    According to some here – you can.

  • loftholdingswood

    I have never attended either a band parade or OO parade where leaflets from the BNP were handed out. Can you specify when and where this happened?

  • facts

    I very much doubt if Rubicon is going to let facts get in the way of that particular rant.

  • Rubicon

    I wonder if you two have attended a 12th Parade. I’ve only done so 3 times – all on the 12th and in Belfast. Certain aspects were consistent in each year.

    The return “march” saw drankards dragging the Union Jack cross the ground and facist BNP literature was being handed out. At least the facists could still stand up straight!

    Not once, not twice but three times! Perhaps you guys should attend your “cultural” ceremonies from time to time. Or are you in the a higher atmosphere removed from the “rough”?

    Here’s a hint – instead of marching – take a break. Join the crowd. On the Lisburn Road you may meet with your “friends”.

    Jesus! Put a jam jar out and complain about wsps why don’t you!

  • Rubicon

    Opps – I was also asked for when – 1991, 1993 and 1995. I may be a year out on those dates.

    I went because I thought my children should know about their culture. They are children of a mixed marriage and – believe me – attending these kind of parades does nothing for me. My wife (from this tradition) was ashamed of it and wouldn’t go. I thought the children should – their grandparents did participate and (God rest them, they were very decent people).

    Apart from the BNP perhaps I shouldn’t mention
    the last experience of the “5-nil, 5-nil” past Sean Grahams on the Oremeau Rd.

  • Rubicon

    Handimg out facist leaflets, marching with the UVF, gloating over murder – in front of their relatives …

    When should I have stopped taking my kids?

    OK – we’re supposed to forget or forgive such things. The PIRA did as bad – or worse.

    There’s no future in trying to pretend it didn’t happen.

    The ethos of the OO is founded on sectarianism. Without the RC Church it couldn’t survive!

  • mark

    Kennaway – the OO lets bigots and killers use their institutions and seems to endorse them

    Trimble – I agree

    The Orangies – sure Kennaway is a looper and Trimble is just as bad as us.

    Are you convincing us you aren’t a bunch of bigots?

  • loftholdingswood

    1991,1993 and 1995. Very current then.

  • willis


    “Very current then”

    Think very hard

    What are the two events most celebrated by oo?

    Boyne and Somme – Hardly current.

  • Lord Belmont

    Just read the BBC Report…

    The Upper Bann MP said the former UUP leader needed “to get a grasp of reality”.

    “I think that if people go back to 1998, they will see that Mr Trimble manipulated the institution in many ways to get the leadership of the Ulster Unionist Party,” he said.

    Pity the Upper Bann MP, doesn’t know his facts.

    Trimble became UUP Leader in 1995 and not 1998 as Simpson says. Also if you refer to Godson etc, you will find that, yes Drumcree plays a part in Trimble’s elction as UUP Leader but this was one issue among many frustrating Unionists, just after the ceasefires one must rememebr.

    It’s a pity Simpson and the DUP are now trying to rewrite history.

  • GWB

    Quite so Belmont. Trimble and his merry crew NEVER did that.

  • Pat

    I haven’t read the book but intend to do so, but from the articles I have read on it it would seem that Brian Kennaway is trying to point out cold hard facts that the OO has changed and moved away from its founding beliefs that all should be free to practise their faith and praise God in their own way without fear of persecution.

    The author has pointed out that a Catholic was its Secretary for some 16years or so, hard to believe now when we all know that the OO members are made to swear an oath against all things Catholic, and that “Loyalty” to the Crown of England is dependent upon that office remaining Protestant.

    Over the last week we have seen the biggoted hatred and two faced dishonesty displayed by the OO. They refuse to meet with the Democratically elected members of Sinn Fein yet are happy to sit down and discuss their and Unionisms next move with the currently active Unionist terrorists of the UDA and UVF.

    The OO has had and remains to have large numbers of the Unionist terrorists within it’s ranks, and they take great pride in celerating the lives of those Murderers such as a Brian Robinson who murdered an innocent Catholic out shopping for groceries on a Saturday morning.

    The same intolerent OO still demands the right to parade down roads through Nationalist/Catholic areas as a sign of their supremacy, and once they are 150 metres past the Nationalist areas they happily board buses to be taken to the main location of their parades. Clearly something that normal, decent, respecting members of society would not need or think of doing.

    Brian Kennaway is correct in his ascertion that the OO has been taken over by the Unionist paramilitaries, something which was clearly visible in last Septembers riots, bombing and shooting, which then seen senior members, with very little intelligence, deliver moronic excuses for the behaviour of the members of the Orange Order/UDA/UVF.