“We can’t let Sinn Fein indoctrinate young Nationalists with hate”

UUP Larne Borough Councillor Mark Dunn had an platform piece published in today’s Newsletter in which he challanges the percievied ideological supremacy the Republican movement purveys over the hunger strikes.

Unionism should be willing not only support and represent the innocent victims of the troubles, but also challenge the majority voice of nationalism’s tailored story glorifying a sustained sectarian murder campaign to a relatively unscarred generation of young people.

One truth that escapes Sinn Fein Youth’s story to young nationalists is that the prisoners who went on hunger strike were not in prison due to their belief in a united Ireland, or even obtaining one through force. They were sentenced for crimes including murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to murder, bombing, hijacking and membership of nationalist murder gangs.

He also expresses concern at the percievied motivation of nationalists voting Sinn fein to many unionists.

The problem is, that it is not an unreasonable conclusion for law abiding people to draw from this campaign, that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for retrospectively legitimising murder.

  • Martin Gilbert

    Yes indeed, I guess. Just like the people who vote conservative in the UK are retrospectively legitimising the fire bombing of Dresden.

  • “…it was unionism that stood firm in defence of the rule of law and shared human values…” but isn’t the nationalist claim that the RUC (officers of the law) were part of the problem and not the solution, the polar opposite of the claims made by M Dunn. Therefore all he’s doing is restating the same ol’, same ol’ preaching to the converted.

    “…committing suicide…” isn’t his 1980’s rethoric; can’t this ‘leade’r add something progressive.

    How did Peter Punt’s version of things go down in Wash DC? Can anyone post a link?

  • Reader

    Martin Gilbert: Just like the people who vote conservative in the UK are retrospectively legitimising the fire bombing of Dresden.
    Except that the war was run by a coalition government. So I suppose that makes it an argument against power sharing (i.e. without an opposition)…

  • Martin Gilbert

    No Reader; you seem to have missed my point entirely (sarcasm towards Mr Dunn).

    Also, althought it was, as you say, a coalition, the tories were the major partner and Churchill personally approved the Dresden bombing.

  • CS Parnell

    One more time: Dresden was bombed in support of a military objective and at the request of an ally – the Soviet Union – of the US and UK. I know Nazis, holocaust deniers (there is a difference) and their sympathisers (let the record show the IRA) have long tried to compare Dresden with Nazi war crimes but it won’t wash and every time that lie is repeated it should be answered.

  • Martin Gilbert

    And I am not going to second guess his decision or, indeed, that of H.S.Truman to drop the bombs on Japan. It was un ugly time and people often do things in those situations which are easy to criticize in hindsight.
    Glad it wasn’t me who had to make such decisions.

  • Sohnlein

    Ok – On the same note we must not allow Unionists to continue to distort the history and significance of the Battle of the Boyne; a distortion which has led to the slaughter of countless number of innocent Catholics by loyalist death squads armed by agents of the British state and which has also been responsible for breeding blind bigotry and hatred towards those of the Catholic faith…not to mention the mindless parades.

    Equally, we must not allow sections of the Unionist community to distort the history of the Black Pig’s Dyke, which they wrongly represent as evidence of an independent state of Ulster.

    When everybody is prepared to embrace the TRUTH we will all be better off…..

  • Martin Gilbert

    C.S. Parnell
    I don’t disagree at all. I made no attempt to equate the two.
    A myth certainly has been propagated that Dresden had no military value. It did. It was a centre of manufacture where many many Nazi slaves were (mis)employed.

    I am a great admirer of Winston Churchill.

    The point I was trying to make is that it is better to go forward (bearing the wounds and anguish) rather than trying to go back or constantly dwelling on the past.

    It’s mentally more healthly I think.

  • lib2016

    History will decide and there’s no room or need for the moral certainty being displayed here. Two parts of Western Europe warred about which had the most right to dominate the rest of the world. Millions were killed by and on both sides, and we use it to score cheap points. If nothing else shows us how futile war is surely this thread does.

  • Martin Gilbert

    lib2016
    There is no such thing as moral certainty.
    You could easily change a few words in your post and it describes N.I.
    Change “Western Europe” to “N.I.”, “rest of the world” to “the other side”, and “millions” to “thousands”.
    We have to learn to let the past go (but still remembering)and learn to live together as good neighbours, just like Europe has done for the past 60 years.

  • Shore Road Resident

    It pleases me greatly to know that some obsessive arsehole is lying awake at night quietly raging about “unionist distortion of the Black Pig’s Dyke”.

    Have a great life Sohnlein. It’s the life you deserve.

  • Isn’t The Man in the Iron Mask, on E4+1 now, fun? Certainly it has the edge on this MOPEfest.

  • Isn’t Dunn’s point though about trying to criminalise the struggle yet again, and that’s why the Hunger Strikers went on strike.?
    SSR there was no need to be abusive though eh.
    Its more comical to imagine some poor bugger raging at Black Pigs Dyke, than get obsessed about it, as you did playing the man.

  • Joe

    Spirit Level

    Isn’t it amazing how many “criminals” (convicted no less, went on to be great spiritual leaders/prime ministers/presidents:
    To name but a few:-
    Ghandi
    Nelson Mandela
    Martin Luther King Jr
    Jomo Kenyatta
    De Valera (awaiting some howls)
    Robert Mugabe (least said the better in his case)
    Jesus
    …..

  • Dread Cthulhu

    To look at your list, Joe, its a mixed bag… definately a few in there that don’t support your cause.

    Mandela: Gerry Adams in black face — a mouthpiece for left wing bombers. Lionized primarily because his enemy the governmetn of South Africa, was worse than his fellow travellers.

    Ghandi and King are legit examples… Kenyatta I’d have to research, having heard some good and some bad… Jesus you have backwards — he was a spiritual leader before the court case, which was, not so much a court case as Pilate pandering to the mob. Mugabe… Mugabe was better back when he was a rebel / bandit, but that is the general route of revolution in Africa — come meet the new boss, same as the old boss…

    Which leaves us Dev… frankly, I think Dev is much ado about nothing — privately clever and public stupid, or at least tone-deaf. Suffered from a bad case of form over substance

    Ironically, the smartest thing he may have done is NOT accept NI when he had the chance during WW II.

  • What is wrong with fostering in indigenous Irish nationalists a hatred for British colonialism?

  • Reader

    Joe: Isn’t it amazing how many “criminals” went on to be great spiritual leaders/prime ministers/presidents
    And if Paisley goes on to be first minister… Well – he was imprisoned in 1969

  • pauljames

    “They were sentenced for crimes including murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to murder, bombing, hijacking and membership of nationalist murder gangs.”

    criminal behaviour in anyones language sanitised by historical distortion so they can find a purpose to their wasted lives

    “their revenge was the slaughter of our children.”

    should be on the biggest gable wall in belfast

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Diarmid Logan: “What is wrong with fostering in indigenous Irish nationalists a hatred for British colonialism? ”

    In and of itself, in a vacuum — nothing.

    However, Dev was not a good political leader, nor was he a good military leader. He let Griffith and Collins bring home the bad news so he could grandstand, precipitating the Irish Civil War. His “bent” neutrality during the Second World War served its purpose, but sending condolences on Hitler’s assassination… not politically astute.

    The smartest thing he may have done was keep Ireland out of the war and not let himself be lured in with an offer of Ulster.

  • Joe

    Dread Cthulhu

    I generally share your analysis.
    Sloppy wording of mine. I didn’t mean that they were all great..
    I think Dev’s philosophy held Ireland backward for too long.
    I disagree with you on Mandela, however. There was an awful bloodbath waiting, I think, and he persuaded the majority to look forward rather than dwell totally in the past.
    Now if only…..

  • Dread Cthulhu

    JOE: “There was an awful bloodbath waiting, I think, and he persuaded the majority to look forward rather than dwell totally in the past. ”

    Maybe… that said, his followers weren’t shy about spilling blood, nor about setting off bombs. One of his closest associates in the great struggle was J. Slovo, head(?) of the S.A. Communist Party

    If Gerry had had the stomach for twenty years in jail, maybe he’d be lionized, too…

  • Conor Gillespie

    Spirit Level,
    “SSR there was no need to be abusive though eh.
    Its more comical to imagine some poor bugger raging at Black Pigs Dyke, than get obsessed about it, as you did playing the man.”

    Now the question is who would be the funniest person to see “raging at Black Pigs Dyke?” My list would include any of the following:
    1) Bertie
    2) Paisley
    3) Martin
    4) The guy who made the original post stating that: “It pleases me greatly to know that some obsessive arsehole is lying awake at night quietly raging about “unionist distortion of the Black Pig’s Dyke”.

    Any of the above would be hilarious. Got any other suggestions anyone?

  • [i]”The problem is, that it is not an unreasonable conclusion for law abiding people to draw from this campaign, that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for retrospectively legitimising murder.”[/i]

    Alternatively, in view of the actual data on killings during the Troubles, an objective observer maght conclude that a vote for continued union within the UK is a vote for legitimizing murder, both in the past and today.

    When all is said and done, some research on the Sutton database on the CAIN site reveals that the Briotish security forces killed 192 civilians out of 363 persons killed (about 53%) and the unionist paramilitaries — whom the security forces provided with arms, training, intelligence, cover and immunity — killed some 873 civilians out of 1,030 persons they killed (sbout 85%).

    So, if we follow the logic of the author, it would seem that those who vote for continued union are legitimizing murder.

    On the other hand, the Provisional IRA killed 516 civilians out of 1,706 total killings (about 30%).

    Hmmm…… Methinks the author should reassess his conclusions.

    BTW, with regard to sectarian killing, the Sutton records show the unionist paramilitaries guilty of some 715 such murders and the republican paramilitaries guilty of 151.

    Again, I suggest the author reassess his conclusions.

  • Occasional Commentator

    “The problem is, that it is not an unreasonable conclusion for law abiding people to draw from this campaign, that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for retrospectively legitimising murder.”

    The funny thing is that many SF voters would actually believe they were voting for peace, by giving the political process republicans the upper hand over the physical force republicans.

    I’ve oversimplified that a little, and we could argue forever over whether they would be correct to think like that, but nonetheless I’m pretty sure that is the thinking of a significant number of SF voters.

  • aquifer

    The provos were trying to kill soldiers and policemen. Its hardly surprising they killed less civilians. Though were the majority of these catholic?

    Before the hunger strikes convicted terrorists were piling up in prison with nowhere to go. Now they can go wherever they like. A victory of sorts.

    And with no unionist prepared to argue strongly that the civil rights campaign was necessary and legitimate, or to offer to share power with nationalists on principle, SF are free to re-present their armed ethnic adventure to metropolitan brits as a freedom struggle rather than political blackmail.

  • TAFKABO

    When all is said and done, some research on the Sutton database on the CAIN site reveals that the Briotish security forces killed 192 civilians out of 363 persons killed (about 53%) and the unionist paramilitaries—whom the security forces provided with arms, training, intelligence, cover and immunity—killed some 873 civilians out of 1,030 persons they killed (sbout 85%).

    Am I correct in interpreting the above paragraph as arguing that security forces and loyalists killed between them 138% of civillians?

    Ho hum.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    aquifer: “And with no unionist prepared to argue strongly that the civil rights campaign was necessary and legitimate, or to offer to share power with nationalists on principle, SF are free to re-present their armed ethnic adventure to metropolitan brits as a freedom struggle rather than political blackmail. ”

    Hey, you can’t blame the provos for this last…

  • Cahal

    “Am I correct in interpreting the above paragraph as arguing that security forces and loyalists killed between them 138% of civillians? ”

    No.

    By the way, it was a silly arguement and it got a silly response.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “Am I correct in interpreting the above paragraph as arguing that security forces and loyalists killed between them 138% of civillians?”

    No, TAFKABO, you’re not.

    To restate: British security forces killed 363 persons, of which 192 civilians were civilians(about 53%)

    To restate: the unionist paramilitaries killed 1,030 persons, of which 873 civilians were civilians (about 85%).

  • Fidel O’toole

    Dresden was a war crime, the whole war was a crime, as are all wars, all caused for economic gain. Let’s be honest, the Allies didn’t give a monkeys about concentration camps. They actually denied existence of them for 10 years.

  • aquifer

    From the Sutton database, of the 516 civilians, 260 are identified as from the Protestant community, 167 from the Catholic community and 89 as not from Northern Ireland, i.e. religion/religious background not specified.

    But, even if all 89 in the not from NI category were Catholics, the count would be 260 Protestants to 256 Catholics.

    But, the civil rights campaign was legitimate and necessary and unionists’ refusal to share power is hardly principled, the armed rebellion of the PIRA is/was, in reality, a freedom struggle.

  • TAFKABO

    Wouldn’t it be easier if people said

    X group killed X number of people, X% of which I have dehumanised through selective terminoology in order to minimise and rationalise their murder?

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “Wouldn’t it be easier if people said ‘X group killed X number of people, X% of which I have dehumanised through selective terminoology in order to minimise and rationalise their murder? ‘”

    Probably, but it would be harder to make the numbers support a thesis then, wouldn’t it?

  • License Dodger

    UUP Larne Borough Councillor Mark Dunn says;

    “..the prisoners who went on hunger strike…were sentenced for crimes including murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to murder, bombing, hijacking and membership of nationalist murder gangs.”

    Mark should be reminded that during the hunger strike, while the UUP urged the government not to concede to the hunger strikers, they were at the same time asking them to grant the special status in question to loyalist prisoners.

  • [i]“Wouldn’t it be easier if people said ‘X group killed X number of people, X% of which I have dehumanised through selective terminoology in order to minimise and rationalise their murder? ‘“[/i]

    Easier, true, but the statement would be a lie in this instance. Killing a combatant on the battlefield during a war is not murder except under exceptionasl circumstances

    Like many of the unionist persuasion, you seem unwilling or unable to admit that the British security forces and the unionist terrorists did not wage war against their armed enemies but against innocent bystanders, i.e. civilians. For all the unionist complaints about PIRA terrorism, they are shamefully silent when it comes to admitting the far more vicious terrorism of the British/unionist forces.

    You are right in condemning terrorism and terrorists. You are wrong in closing your eyes to the terrorism of the British and unionists.

    And I fear that your refusal to face the reality of the violence in NI will, sooner or later, destroy any chance of real peace in NI

  • bertie

    “far more vicious terrorism”

    You can’t get more vicious than proxy bombs. The viciousness of the terrorism from the IRA was not of secondary degree to anyone. The IRA/UVF etc were all vicious evil bastards. The legitimate forces of the state, were just that legitimate forces. There were however some amomgst them who were a disgrace to their uniform and were also evil bastards (The Miami Showband for example)

  • TAFKABO

    You are right in condemning terrorism and terrorists. You are wrong in closing your eyes to the terrorism of the British and unionists.

    I never said the word terrorist in my posts, I said X group, deliberately phrasing it so that anyone, from any side, could apply it to their own favourite flavour of truth.
    You need to start reading what people say,and not just replying to the things you have imagined they said.

  • bertie

    TAFKABO

    Get with the programme! You are a unionist therefore when you say terrorist or murderer you must only be referring to republicans. Oh and another thing you must assume that all nationists are terrorists.

    I suspect that your not catching on so fast is down to all that loss of sleep that we have fretting about the RC church.

    It’s quite simple really. 😉

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Hey, Joe…

    Speaking of Mugabe…

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4932060.stm

  • TAFKABO

    Bertie

    Silly me, I’ve been slipping lately, haven’t even reached my hypocrisy quota this month.

  • Joe

    Dread Cthulhu

    If for real, what an amazing turnaround.
    Pity the poor people who had to be brought to the brink of starvation.

  • lib2016

    The refusal of the ‘colonial authorities’ to keep their word about the promised land reforms just might have something to do with all this.

    Does anybody doubt that the white farmers/land speculators (tick as appropriate) have been caught in a squeeze between two governments, a financial and political story which has been almost entirely reported in human interest terms. Our wonderful press strikes again!

  • TAFKABO

    The fasciating part of Fartricks post is the point where he seeks to reassure us he is non sectarian.
    As if being found guilty of sectariansism is so much worse than taking pleasure in bloody slaughter.
    It’s an issue I think merits discussion.

  • elfinto

    Sounds like a plea for psychiatric help fartrick. And STOP SHOUTING!

  • Joe

    Please don’t feed trolls…

  • the queen

    I nearly got sick reading that post from fart.

    I interviewed someone once who had been in La Mon, and it was a story that left me badly shaken.

    It was the polar opposite of a great day, it was a shamfeul day when people attending a dog show got obliterated.

    This man has a sick and warped mind, and I find his comments reprehensible

  • Dread Cthulhu

    lib2016: “The refusal of the ‘colonial authorities’ to keep their word about the promised land reforms just might have something to do with all this. ”

    Oh, I dunno… Mugabe surely had his share of the mess to take credit / blame for… Likewise, the question at the start was not “if,” but “how quickly.” Ultimately, the result — a slower, deliberate approach, favored by the “colonial authorities,” would have been more beneficial. The proof is in the pudding… or the empty larder, as it were. Mugabe’s “redistribution” of land from working farmers to political cronies took his nation from breadbasket to basket case, his whinging on about a “Western plot” notwithstanding.

    Frankly, I wouldn’t be suprised if the white farmers don’t leave him to twist in the wind. Ironically, some have already been “engaged” by other African nations, lured in by cheap leases and governmental support.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “It’s an issue I think merits discussion. ”

    Do you mean on the board, or just among the voices in fartrick’s head?

  • Brian Boru

    I agree to the extent that SF shouldn’t be allowed a monopoly on expressions of republicanism and the interpretation of history e.g. claiming direct descent from 1916. They are not direct political-descendents of the Republicanism that defeated the British in 1921 either. They are closer in descent from the Anti-Treaty Republicans that fought in the Civil War, but even here the relationship is not direct because most of those later accepted the Southern state’s legitimacy. The Provos were only founded in 1969. Their roots are in the sectarian problems of the North and not anything Southern.

  • Occasional Commentator

    TAFKABO: As if being found guilty of sectariansism is so much worse than taking pleasure in bloody slaughter.
    It’s an issue I think merits discussion.

    Leaving aside the exact sentiments expressed by fartrick and indeed whether fartrick or La Mon was sectarian, what I find interesting is the suggestion by TAFKABO that it’s OK to make false allegations (X is sectarian) as long as there are more serious allegations (X supports murderer) which can be proven true.

    As TAFKABO would say, it’s an issue I think merits discussion.

  • lib2016

    Dread,

    I did’t realise that I had to make it clear that Mugabe had a share of the blame/credit in all this. All I posted was a remark that the colonial authorities and their broken promises were also a factor in what’s going on. I still think that’s true.

    The colonial authorities abdicated their responsibilities in Zimbabwe, allegedly because they couldn’t trust their own security forces. It’s surprising how much the history of Zimbabwe and our own history in Northern Ireland have in common.

    No wonder unionists are panicking here even though the situation in Ireland also has huge differences, including land reform and a long established democracy in most of the island.

    It’s even been rumoured that the British defence establishment have been brought under political control. We’ll soon see whether that last point is just wishful thinking.

  • Joe

    Mugabe hailed from Yorkshire.
    Read his name backwards – “e ba gum”

  • bertie

    fartrick

    You are one sick individual and I hope that you get the help that you so obviously need.

  • Conor Gillespie

    As Joe so wisely advised earlier on this thread, “Please don’t feed trolls…”

    They’ll just come back for more.

  • bertie

    Conor

    I suspect that fartrick is a troll but I still think that anyone who makes comments like that either because he means it or because he seeks to show nationalists in a bad light, is in need of help.

  • missfitz

    Conor, Bertie

    Would he not be in need of a moderator? Are comments like those not just ugly, inciteful and injustified? I cant even continue to talk to it, as I find it really distressful that a human being can de humanise people in such a way.

  • Patrick Bateman

    Fartrick, regardless of his bona fides, is as demonstration of the true nature of lesser spotted nationalist bigotry in todays Northern Ireland.

  • bertie

    Missfitz

    It is indeed distressing to read this muck. I hope that the comments will be removed and I also hope that this happens before any of the survivers or those bereaved by the La Mon bomb see it.

    He is not just in need of a moderator. I would also suggest a psychiatrist and/or a man/woman of the cloth and if anyone has a spare slot in their prayers tonight to remember him.

  • missfitz

    Bertie
    Thanks for that. I dont know if you saw it, but I interviewed a survivor from La Mon once, and it left me in a terrible state. All these years later, and she has not recovered

    She went to a dog award ceremony,. Actually, I wrote some of the stuff she told me, but I think its too revulsive to repeat. Suffice to say, she is now a shut in. She doesnt leave her house, she is on medicaiton amd wakes every night with nightmares. As she was crawling out of La Mon, she found her sister, she knew if by the ring on her finger. As she tugged to bring her sister with her, only the hand came, there was nothing else left.

    I have just finished an amazing article by Paul Bew in History Ireland, that struck a chord in me. In the end, the Republican rhetoric will sound hollow when we all fully realise the depth of destruction and dehumanisation that was released

  • bertie

    missfitz

    The legacy of terrorism, (republican and “loyalist”) is both wide and deep and not understood. I suspect that in interviewing her you have given her feeling some validation and that may help her to gain a little mastery of them and, who knows, be the start of a process of readjustment for her. It’s easy to say but even if she shared her burden with you, don’t feel that you have to carry it with you. As I say you have probably helped her. At the very least you have demonstrated to her that what she has been through matters. If this starts to haunt you in the wee small hours try to focus on that notion.

  • Conor Gillespie

    Patrick Bateman,

    “Fartrick, regardless of his bona fides, is as demonstration of the true nature of lesser spotted nationalist bigotry in todays Northern Ireland.”

    Umm, I don’t think this guys a representation of much of anything. His opinions (if genuine) represent a fringe viewpoint and stem from either a troll or from the most disgraceful minority of the nationalist community. To take such perverse statements as “if there happens to be another La Mon type bomb then I will be happy” and “Some of the people there were burned like sausages” and to present them as a “demonstration of nationalist bigotry in todays Northern Ireland” is not only absurd, but frankly, a bit offensive.

  • bertie

    fartrick

    Lets suppose for am moment you are for real. why do you suppose that Missfitz concern is dependant on the wman’s class, gender or religon but on the basis of common humanity of putting herself in the woman’s shoes.

    It is very hard for most of us to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who can talk of the deaths of people in that atrocity in the terms that you have.

    If you have been mistreated by prison officers and I have no way of knowing whether you have or not, I would not condone that. If a commentator came on here saying that he was a prison officer and glorifing violence against prisoners I would be taking him to task. However it is not them that is on here driping with hatred. I am deadly serious about you seeking help. For your own sake as well as everyone else’s.

  • Busty Brenda

    I am surprised this guy has gotten away with this for so long and has not been banned out right.

  • TAFKABO

    and to present them as a “demonstration of nationalist bigotry in todays Northern Ireland” is not only absurd, but frankly, a bit offensive.

    Christ, it never stops.
    Fartrick comes out with his posts and all some people can do is cry that the poor nationalist community is being associated with him.
    It’s always about you guys, isn’t it.

  • bertie

    To be fair TAFKABO

    if his orange mirror image had been on here gloating about Greysteel and someone pointed to it as a demonstration of unionist bigotry in today’s NI, I’d be wading in myself 😉

  • Conor Gillespie

    uhh, if your read the thread title you’ll see that the subject of this thread concerns the indoctrination of young nationalists with hate so, ya, in this instance, it is about us. And by the way, my post wasn’t a direct response to Fartricks anyway. It was a response to Patrick Bateman’s interpretation of Fartrick’s viewpoints.

  • TAFKABO

    But the Greysteel massacre, and any celebration of it, is an indication of the sickness from within the Unionist community.

    Watch….

    I’m a unionist, the community I belong to has some sick bastards in it’s midst, this is a problem we need to deal with.

    See, I said it, the sky didn’t fall.

  • Little Timmy

    ‘I’m a unionist, the community I belong to has some sick bastards in it’s midst, this is a problem we need to deal with.’

    Is Dunn’s point not that there are ‘sick bastards’ in both communities. It is just that the biggest nationalist party chooses to laud these sickos as heroes and pimp the associated values to a new generation? Something which mainstream unionism does not do…

  • bertie

    TAFKABO

    I’m sure something just landed on me 😉

  • elfinto

    Suzanne Breen had a good article about ex-prisoners in the Sunday Tribune this week (with her obligatory digs at SF of course). There are hundreds of them walking around with PSTD and getting no treatment whatsoever. Those who suffered worse (apart from the hunger strikers) were on the blanket and no wash protests from 1976 onwards.

    I know people will point out that there are prison warders who were killed or maimed by the IRA and they will be right of course but nevertheless we should not ignore the plight of ex-prisoners.

    I believe fartrick and I feel sorry for him even though his moral compass is clearly broken due in part to his experiences inside. It is never too late to seek help.

  • Sean O’Gallcobhair

    I find it a bit rich to have a unionist acuse Sinn Fein of ‘indoctrinating young nationalists with hate’ seeing as ‘hate’ is what unionism and indeed the wider protestant community in the north of Eireann live on.
    I vote Sinn Fein and I certainly don’t have any hatred for anyone. What I do have is an honest love of my native country on which my ancestors have lived for thousands of years, as well as my culture. The catholics in the north responded as any people would respond to being bullied and bossed about in their own country by a people/foreign government who sought to destroy their identity and rob them of their right to independance.
    If you want an example of ‘hate’, look at the attitude of unionists to anything remotely catholic or Irish. Protestants are force-fed a diet of anti-Irish bigotry and propoganda from no age whereas catholic let their young people develop their own viewpoints and teach respect for your fellow persons.
    SF has got an awful lot less to answer for than the British government who were hand-in-glove with unionist paramilitaries during the troubles and still continue with their cheating, lying and syping.

  • qub

    I just hope that political partys and community actors can help people like fartrick reconcile their experiences, and help young people learn the destructive lessons that we do not want to see repeated.

  • qub

    ‘SF has got an awful lot less to answer for than the British government who were hand-in-glove with unionist paramilitaries during the troubles and still continue with their cheating, lying and syping.’

    You mean the British Government and the British Irish defending the rule of law have more to answer for than civilians who in the dead of night donned balaclavas and went on missions to exterminate their fellow citizens?

    To my knowledge unionists condemn all murder. Unionists communities do not unite and call for the release of Johnny Adair, or celebrate Lenny Murphy as a dead patriot or hold street parties for Michael Stone’s 3:0

    A loyalist murderer and an IRA murder are just that murderers. But one community legitimises and holds their murderers up as heroes and role models………..

  • Tin Tin

    With Community Relations Week coming up it will be interesting to see how Sinn Fein support it and whether they are sincere considering the effort they put into other campaigns.

  • “I find it a bit rich to have a unionist acuse Sinn Fein of ‘indoctrinating young nationalists with hate’ SEEING AS ‘HATE’ IS WHAT UNIONISM AND INDEED THE WIDER PROTESTANT COMMUNITY IN THE NORTH OF EIREANN LIVE ON.
    I vote Sinn Fein and I certainly don’t have any hatred for anyone……”

    Indeed I feel the love from here.