Final moments

The Garda have released information about Denis Donaldson’s last moments, bringing into significant question the claim in a Daily Ireland headline that the Garda thought it could be suicide.

  • Busty Brenda

    Daily Ireland tried to push the suicide angle. Then they and others like Morrison and Adams tried to push the spook angle.

    Me thinks they protest too much.

  • p o neill

    i woner if theyre checking for bird flu now that a dead stool pigeon has been found….

  • aquifer

    Oh Dear

  • Occasional Commentator

    The suicide angle is the easiest to debunk of all the theories. For one thing, where is the gun?

    Did he hide the gun in the lake after shooting himself 🙂 [Apologies to the Slugger commentator who first asked this question.]

    Unless somebody thinks he arranged for himself to be killed?

  • urquhart

    Direland front pages aren’t noted for their basis in fact, rather the agenda they’re designed to advance.

    Remember ‘SDLP CHIEF’ Eddie Espie??

  • Keith M

    “Daily Ireland tried to push the suicide angle.” now who could they be trying to protect one wonders?

  • pol

    And there is no agenda in these thread’s. Is it not fact when the news broke there was all kinds of speculation. I saw many headlines blaming the IRA. I would say this is more about fair deal running with a political agenda rather than focusing on the real story. Work it out.

  • Busty Brenda

    They are about to bury the traitor in the city cemetery at the corner of falls and whiterock roads.

    Any one want to bet how long the hoods will take to desecrate it?

    I’m up for a fiver within two weeks.

    Definitely a case for cremation.

  • sohnlein

    I hear that they plan to run with the “disgruntled husband” line next – after all, Denis was such a ladies man….

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    The Daily Ireland (DI) did not report that the Gardai ‘thought’ it was suicide, so the banner headline by Fair Deal is deliberately false (as it is intended to be). The Gardai were quoted as saying they had not ruled it out, quite a different emphasis there. Plus the DI report was compiled on Tuesday evening in the immrediate aftermath of the murder when the only official facts released through the Gardai and Mc Dowell were that Donaldson was dead and that he had a very serious arm injury.

    This did not stop virtually every media outlet, politicians and quite a few commentators on Slugger and elsewhere from stating that Donaldson had in fact been tortured (lies). That Donaldson had been deliberately mutilated (lies). That his hand had symbolically been severed as some sort of ritualistic message (lies). In fact Fair Deal stated that Donaldson had been deliberately shot in the face as some some of extra punishment for the informer in order that the coffin remained closed to the family (more lies).

    As more facts have emerged in the intervening four days one can now safely say that the suicide theory (speculated on last Tuesday evening) is now put to bed. Along with the mutilations ,torture and symbolic savagery. One wonders what is the sanction when a Slugger moderator lies through their teeth.

  • Octogenerian’s Don’t Lie, Do They?

    Fair Deal

    Also important to note that Ian Paisley was incorrect when stating on Channel 4 News that Denis Donaldson had been tortured/ mutilated.

  • missfitz

    It looks like everyone is building up a head of steam on this, and casting accusations all over the place.

    It is human nature to speculate for goodness sake, and lets face it, this whole DD affair has been sensational. Trusted provo, mate of the iconic Bobby Sands, turned brit spy.
    You really couldnt make it up.

    It is natural that people will be at their work and trying to fly their own agendas in the interim. Rumours will always spark and fly at times like this, and I see no problem weighing in there.

    However, no one needs to take the speculation too seriously. If the truth comes out about this, then we will have the real story. Of course, some may never believe it, or indeed the truth may not ever come out.

    For the record, I made the crack about the gun in the lake post suicide, and about the stool pigeon. I have also been developing the line about something in his past coming back to haunt/ hunt him down in the end. I never suggested a disgruntled husband, I have suspicions deeper than that, but certainly a disgruntled interested party.

    But thats all it is on my part. Idle speculation in a sensational case. In years gone by, we would have gone down to the pub and wound out these theories among friends and colleagues. Now we do it in the Virtual Public House, licensed and bona fides by Mick Fealty.

    (If only he could charge for the drink)

    So, continue to chatter and specualte, but dont take yourselves too seriously, just yet

  • heck

    We all bring our prejudices to this. My first reaction was that the Brits did it!!

    As I though about it tend to suspect that it was someone who found out where he was from the Sunday newspaper.

    I’m sure both the brits and the IRA knew where he was already.

    A few question for you experts. Can the police ombudsman investigate the outing of DD herself or does a complaint have to be made? Did the police do this because of their embarrassment over the Stormontgate affair? How did the newspaper find out where he was? Was there a leak to the press from with the PSNI?

    If the police outted DD in revenge for not knowing about a “spy ring” (if there was one!) then aren’t they responsible even if they didn’t pull the trigger?

  • Deep Cut Harry

    Ok, he died of multiple shot gun wounds to the chest. So he shot himself, realised he hadn’t done quite a good enough job, then shot himself again, and again. Then cut off his own hand. Ok. Sounds a bit like what happened at Deep Cut, don’t ya think?

  • missfitz

    Heck
    I would have thought that this transcended the role of the Ombudsman, to be honest. You are going to matters deep at the heart of governance and administration, so I would have imagined that you would have needed an independent judicial abritrter for this?

  • fair_deal

    pat

    My introductory line was not in “quote” marks -“haven’t ruled it out” and “thought it could” are hardly opposite meanings.

    Some may diasgree about the detail and the motivations for the attack and the injuries but everyone else was agreed it was murder.

    The Daily Ireland headline mentions Garda not ruling out suicide but the article provide no quote or even the get-out “soutrces say” to back up that claim. Every other quote is describing it as a murder even Gerry Adams.

    It might be useful if you read the links.

    “That his hand had symbolically been severed as some sort of ritualistic message (lies)”

    The claims of a serious hand in jury are true.
    The Irish examiner confirms this.

    “When they discovered him, in a room to the left of the cottage, Mr Donaldson’s hand was found under his body – hanging on just by its skin.”

    “In fact Fair Deal stated that Donaldson had been deliberately shot in the face as some some of extra punishment for the informer in order that the coffin remained closed to the family (more lies).”

    The Irish examiner report
    “He was shot at least twice more – once to the body and then in the head.”

    Octo

    Paisley characterised his comments with the limitation “If what I have heard is true…”

  • Busty Brenda

    ‘how did the newspaper find out where he was’

    good question heck. Someone must have pointed out the cottage to the jurnalist, he would hardly have known unless someone told him.

    What is this about the camera man being ex-special branch. Anyone know if there is any truth in this?

    http://www.whokilleddennis.blogspot.com

  • joinedupthinking

    I note that the son-in-law didn’t bother his arse going to the funeral.
    Mustn’t have been allowed by the ‘RA.
    It really is like the mafia – in every sense.

  • Busty Brenda.

    They even had mass in the house. Did the church not want the traitor either?

    Less than a 100 people there. Rent a crowd.

  • mickhall

    I agree with MissFitz, [post 12] the value of slugger is we can read about an issue from all political angles and then hopefully come to a more informed conclusion. Although with the guards rationing the info in this case and feeding it to the media in a drip drip manner there was ample opportunity for speculation and mis-information to leak into the system.

    On a different point, now we have a slugger official who posts from an entrenched Unionist perspective [sorry fair deal if I am mistaken] I feel it is only correct that the board has a SF republican to post articles from the other side. Myself I would like to see Pat McLarnon pick up this baton as he is like fair deal and honest, sound sort of Guy.

    Regards to all

  • mickhall

    ‘Brenda’,

    A hundred people willing to show themselves, I find that interesting from a number of angles, or am I misinterpreting in your opinion.

    Best regards

  • Fair Deal

    Mick

    “On a different point, now we have a slugger official who posts from an entrenched Unionist perspective [sorry fair deal if I am mistaken] I feel it is only correct that the board has a SF republican to post articles from the other side.”

    I have no problem being descibed as a Unionist. Also in the list of bloggers on the site I an listed as a “politico” [although I ma not a member of a party] so slugger nor I claim I am a “neutral” in terms of the constitutional debate.

    On your second point [and maybe I am mistaken about CD] but does Chris Donnelly not fulfil the role you outline? The gap is possibly more a SDLP blogger rather than a Sinn Fein one. If you are interested talk to mick about it, it’s what i did.

  • joinedupthinking

    “”I feel it is only correct that the board has a SF republican to post articles from the other side.”

    Someone like Chris Donnelly perhaps?

  • Busty Brenda

    Mick how you interpet something is your own affair.
    They look like a pitiful crew on the television, but look on the bright side, now tombstone tom can point out the traitors grave on his next tour.
    At least he was useful to his former comrades for something.

  • mickhall

    Ah, I did not realize Chris had joined the board, as to myself I do not have the time as I already spend to much time surfing.

    regards

  • mickhall

    busty

    [I felt like Danny Baldwin when I wrote that] the point I was making is they obviously were not fearful to be seen at the door of a dead tout.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    FD,

    but there is the world of difference between ‘not having ruled out’ and ‘thought it could be’. The former suggesting one of a number of options, the latter suggesting coming down in favour of that case. Which was patently not the case,

    The DI on Wednesday reported ‘Although the reported evidence suggested Donaldson had been murdered, gardai last night said they had not ruled out that he had taken his own life’.

    The DI reporting as such has been much more sober than the lurid and speculative banner headlines of just about every other outlet that along with the Paisley statement has shown to be lies.

  • heck

    Thanks for that link Busty Brenda—it seems like someone is having the same questions as me.

    Curiouser and curiouser!!!!

    This issue is becoming a Rorschach test for people’s views on Northern Ireland. If your biases are against the British –then they did it, if you are biases against republicans then they did it. It exposes all our biases.

    I recognize mine and fully admit to them. However is anyone concerned about the objectivity and biases of the mainstream media? I normally like to read Dave McKittrick’s articles on Northern Ireland but the articles in the Independent on the DD killing claiming, for a fact, that republicans were the killers struck me as clear speculation masquerading as factual reporting. (I was going to say it was crap but that would be playing the man –and I can’t do that.)

    Either he has facts that he is not telling us or he is being spun by someone—I suspect the “securocrats”. If my suspicions are correct he would probably call this “background briefings” and if so he needs to ask why he is being briefed this way and tell us. If he is just writing wild speculation then the Independent needs to fire him.

    I know nothing about the details of DDs’ killing but there is something that stinks in this affair and the way it is playing out.

    But then thinking of the Rorscharh test—it just means I am paranoid.

  • fair_deal

    Pat

    “The former suggesting one of a number of options, the latter suggesting coming down in favour of that case.”

    “could be” doesn’t rule out other options either so there is no world of difference. “could be” is not a definitive statement

  • oilbhear@hotmail.com

    I note that the son-in-law didn’t bother his arse going to the funeral.
    Mustn’t have been allowed by the ‘RA.
    It really is like the mafia – in every sense.
    Posted by joinedupthinking on Apr 08, 2006 @ 02:19 PM

    How come I see a picture of a man closely resembling DD’s son in law walking behind the coffin in City Cemetery?
    more lies. where would we be without them.

  • sherlock

    Who killed donaldson?

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘more lies. where would we be without them’

    Well we wouldn’t have a basis for this thread for a start.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    And wouldn’t be a spike in so many other people’s cannon were this death to be something utter mundane, like a jealous husband, an angry spouse or upset business partner.

    As for who said what, we were told he’d been tortured and a host of other lies and half-truths, all designed to hammer this story into a useful political pigeonhole, to further the goals of this party or that… Not for nothing, but does anyone in the general region of Northern Ireland die of anything that *ISN’T* political?

  • DK

    Jeepers – listen to yourselves accusing each other of lying etc.

    Fact is, in the immediate aftermath of the killing there wasn’t much detail, so people speculated based on what was available. As more information is coming out, then the focus is getting narrower. So saying Daily Ireland lied by pushing the suicide story is purely because they probably didn’t know that the gun was missing & so thought it worthwhile to suggest (with their usual subtelty). Equally when everyone heard about the hand being severed/mangles, the assumption was a torture/mutiliation – not unreasonable either.

    Stop accusing each other of lying and try to concentrate on the story, which is that suicide has been ruled out now.