Trey Parker and Matt Stone, servants of the dark lord Xenu

The issue of intolerance of criticism, be it satirical or otherwise, isn’t restricted to Islamic fundamentalists.. although, while the cult involved in this next example may call itself a religion, few outside its own adherents give that claim any credence. ANYway.. one such adherent is Isaac Hayes, as quoted in the Guardian, “There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends, and intolerance and bigo-try towards religious beliefs of others begins”. What’s he talking about? Scientology.. or the ‘Church of’ as the notoriously litigious and secretive organisation prefers to be known as for tax reasons. More specifically South Park and Scientology. At which point I’ll drop beneath the fold.Hayes’ statement continued with this claim, “As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices.”

The response of the creators of South Park is an exercise in moderation –

“This has nothing to do with intolerance and bigo-try and everything to do with the fact that Isaac Hayes is a Scientologist and that we recently featured Scientology in an episode of South Park,” said Matt Stone, who created the series with Trey Parker. “In 10 years and more than 150 episodes Isaac never had a problem with the show making fun of Christians, Muslims, Mormons and Jews. He got a sudden case of religious sensitivity when it was his religion featured on the show. To bring the civil rights struggle into this is just a non sequitur. Of course, we will release Isaac from his contract and we wish him well.”

They may wish Isaac well.. but not Scientology.. which, reportedly, seems to have been, unfortunately, successful in its attempt to pressurise Comedy Central into dropping the episode in question.. an episode which also featured a sequence depicting another well-known adherent of the cult, Tom Cruise [isn’t he a Level 7 Operating Thetan? – Ed], refusing to come out of the closet – instead of a recent scheduled repeat showing, a different episode was aired.

Btw as Damien Mulley noted yesterday, you can still watch the episode in question online.. or at youtube.

Thankfully, Matt Stone and Trey Parker didn’t let that go unanswered.. and as Emily pointed out, and here, the latest issue of Daily Variety reported what they had to say

So, Scientology, you may have won THIS battle, but the million-year war for earth has just begun! Temporarily anozinizing our episode will NOT stop us from keeping Thetans forever trapped in your pitiful man-bodies. Curses and drat! You have obstructed us for now, but your feeble bid to save humanity will fail! Hail Xenu!!!”

The duo signed the statement “Trey Parker and Matt Stone, servants of the dark lord Xenu.

More on the dark lord Xenu, Thetans and other fairytales[™ Comrade Stalin in comments] from S’tology, and lots more besides, can be found at Operation Clambake

Just one more thought, perhaps when the Anti-Racism Network have finished talking about censoring the satirical cartoons about Islam they will start talking about censoring the satirical cartoons about Scientology?.. as I said.. just a thought..

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  • Emily, Servant of the Dark Lord Xenu

    “…few outside its own adherents give that claim any credence.”

    And most are beginning to recognize this “church” for exactly what it is — a mass-scale scam and band of criminal thugs. Operation Clambake is only the tip of the iceberg. There are thousands and thousands of horror stories to be found on the internet detailing terrible abuses, from extortion, kidnapping, slave labor and even death.

    BTW, the Google ad for CCHR offering to help you “find out about psychiatry” on the left is a S*********y front and nothing but a load of lies. A lot of people with Google ads that are talking about this are inadvertently being sponsored by the “church.”

  • Pete Baker

    Damn those GoogleAds! MICK!!!

    Thanks Emily.

    *note to self – refer to The Cult as S’tology only*

  • Emily, Servant of the Dark Lord Xenu

    I wouldn’t worry about it too much. First of all, most members are given free software so that they can easly make their own standard-issue website featuring their “success story” and their favorite Elron quotes (gems of brilliance along the lines of “People who work hard acheive stuff.”). The catch is the software comes with a nanny program that blocks any anti-S*********y sites and if they happen to navigate to a page that contains the word “Xenu” it will basically shut their entire computer down. Not too many clams will even be able to read this.

    Though the “church” does have minions surfing the web on a hunt for critics. New lives to destroy every day!

  • Emily, Servant of the Dark Lord Xenu

    Oh, and should anyone click on the “About Elron Hubman” link, please note that it’s all a load of lies. The only accurate thing about his biography that organization has ever produced is noting that he lived.

  • Comrade Stalin

    My recollection is that Hayes is himself a Scientologist. South Park has done plenty of religious satire before, particularly about the Mormons. That didn’t seem to upset Hayes very much then.

  • Pete Baker

    Yes Comrade.. I believe I may have mentioned that in the original post..

  • Emily, Servant of the Dark Lord Xenu

    That’s the major beef I have with they hypocrisy of Hayes. Parker and Stone once said in an interview that if they did allow themselves “sacred cows” – essentially saying it’s okay to make fun of THIS but not THAT – then they really would be racists and bigots and all the things that people have called them. It can’t be okay to mock every religion in the world save one. Hayes apparently believes it can. Either that or he’s under some kind of pressure from the leadership. He said in a radio interview shortly after the episode aired that he didn’t mind it. He was even approached by Matt and Trey before the episode and told about it. They handled the matter with him with a good deal of sensitivity and this is what they got as thanks.

    I myself cannot wait for the episode where they whip the piss out of him for it.

  • fair_deal

    The Comedy Central dropping of the episode is not restricted to America. They have agreed it will not be shown in the UK.

    Time to email MTV and Paramount Comedy channels asking for it to be shown methinks.

  • Emily, Servant of the Dark Lord Xenu

    It was initially shown in the US in November, which is part of the reason this move on the part of Hayes is so unusual. It was merely pulled from re-runs, and at the 11th hour to boot. The whole fuss in the UK started a month or so ago, to little avail.

    This is actually a blessing for the episode. It’s hosted at dozens of sites across the internet and more people have watched it because of this broo-ha-ha that would have had it just aired like any other episode of the show. When will people like Hayes and Cruise learn that this type of thing almost always, without fail, backfires and ends up generating more publicity for their target and a higher interest in what they’re trying to prevent other people from watching?

  • Because they will never learn Emily. I think SP is going to see a sudden surge in their viewership now…watch SP piss of a Scientology loon.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Pete, sorry. I’m afraid I’m guilty of skimming the top of the article then shooting from the hip, as I’d heard about the issue elsewhere.

    Thanks for the credit in the article though, and the implication that this debate about Scientology is pretty much the same one about the Islamic cartoons (I’ve noted no comments from those slagging The Blanket on this thread, even though the South Park episode twists the dagger a lot deeper than the cartoons did). Actually, I was thinking of the weird clam-infested organization (whose activities in Ireland I’ve kept an eye on for a while) when I wrote that point. People often say “Scientology is a cult, it’s not a proper religion” without thinking exactly what “proper” means. At the end of the day Scientology is much like the established religions – people still conduct silly ceremonies and say silly things in pursuit of silly goals such as “eternal life” (also a Scientologist’s objective), the difference is that they’ve been around for longer.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Because they will never learn Emily. I think SP is going to see a sudden surge in their viewership now…watch SP piss of a Scientology loon.

    This is the time-honoured Scientology “shoot yourself in the foot” issue which they go through again and again. By trying to silence their critics or those who publish their “sacred” texts, they in fact create more free publicity for those critics.

  • Pete Baker

    That’s ok, Comrade.. skimming is all too prevalent.. here and elsewhere.

    And yes, I’d also noticed that none of the strident voices in support of censoring the other cartoons had commented here.

    But I’d be wary of making a comparison between S’tology and religions – even non-proper ones.

    It isn’t a religion.. and time won’t change that.. the religion argument is just a ruse to keep hold of the organisation’s money by availing of favourable tax rates. And the fairytales they guard are nothing other than a cover for the scam – a common bait and switch scam for the gullible/vulnerable/whatever. It’s one of the reasons why satire is particularly effective against S’tology.. and why S’tology over-reacts in the manner it does.

  • Emily, Servant of the Dark Lord Xenu

    Comrade Stalin,
    Please do not make the mistake of asserting that it’s just like any other church, except that it is in its infancy. These people are responsible for some of the most heinous human rights abuses you will ever read in your life. Read around about some of the accounts of former members and their stories about being held against their will, being blackmailed, threatened, harassed and even worse. Click here to read about some other people that weren’t quite so lucky.

    There’s a reason why both Pete and I are hesitant to type out their full name. They have a history of ruthlessly destroying even their mildest of critics. Read about their lovely policy of “Fair Game” here.

    If it were just a matter of the aliens bit, I wouldn’t care, as silly as I think it is. If you don’t believe me, walk into any of their centers and ask them about Xenu to experience some of the abuse first hand yourself.

  • Harry Flashman

    Given that Isaac Hayes is black I’m sure the usual suspects like McCann and Brian Kelly will immediately jump in and accuse the South Parkers of racism for lampooning S’tology. What? You mean to say that S’tology has adherents of every race? And they include some of the richest people in the world? Just like Islam in other words, but, but. . .

    So c’mon Brian Kelly and Eamonn McCann why is it ok to laugh at these people’s socio-political belief systems but not ok to mock Islam?

  • abucs

    Fair comment Harry.
    The s**t is really going to hit the fan when SP lampoons Islam.

    Comrade Stalin,

    “At the end of the day Scientology is much like the established religions – people still conduct silly ceremonies and say silly things in pursuit of silly goals such as “eternal life” (also a Scientologist’s objective), the difference is that they’ve been around for longer. ”

    Well the Christian church’s pursuit of silly things such as the true nature of our creation / reality has led directly to modern western (now international) science.

    It’s doctrines of experimental proof and theories needing to fit experimental results has led mankind a long way on finding this reality.

    The bishops and monks who first devised this mode of thought from their belief in an ordered understandable creation and the clergy and religious laymen that followed including Sir Isaac Newton and Galileo were trying to understand the mind of their God.

    Science has since, of course, become a discipline in it’s own right and God too has been dropped until and if His existance can be proved experimentally. Fair enough.
    This science is leading us back to the answers sought by the forefathers of science.

    Quantum mechanics is the modern scientific ORTHODOXY, and there is overwhelming evidence here that creation does not act physically but is programmed :

    such as the Max Planck’s dual property of light (wave and particle at the same time – physically impossible), Neils Bohr’s measurement effect suggesting that consciousness is written into the laws of physics, the uncertainty principle suggesting that reality doesn’t have any physical properties until we look for them, Bells theorem suggesting reality is not local, Einsteins relativity of neither our space or time being absolute, Einteins e = mc 2 showing that matter is not absolute, Godels incompleteness theorem showing that logic itself cannot be complete, the quantum zeno effect and many more modern orthodox scientific thoughts suggest that this universe is created and not one that follows a simple cause and effect process alone – as if we needed to be told.

    Most of these modern scientists, if not all, have been Nobel winners. and their science is modern ORTHODOXY.

    I for one don’t mind the ‘Christian silliness’.

    In fact it has been fascinating and illuminating.

  • abucs

    Oh, i forgot to ask :
    when is Tom coming out of the closet ? (For SP fans).

  • SlugFest

    but that episode did play!!!! saw it myself. it was very funny, but then aren’t they all? can’t quite remember when i saw it — probably a couple months ago.

    john travolta was featured in it as well … he stood outside the closet trying to coax cruise out.

  • esmereldavillalobos

    Have just watched the episode (thanks for the link, Pete!) – the funniest thing I have seen in some considerable time! Please come out of the closet, Tom…

  • Pete Baker

    SlugFest

    According to the available reports, there’s an undertaking, by whom exactly I’m not sure, not to screen the episode in the UK.. and the statement to Variety by Stone and Parker came following the pulling of a scheduled repeat of that episode, by Comedy Central, last week in the US.

    esmerelda

    You’re welcome. 🙂

  • SlugFest

    Pete,

    thanks for the additional info. it’s really a great episode that everyone should see — even if you have to watch it on the internet.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Pete:

    It isn’t a religion.. and time won’t change that..

    How do you define a religion ? Who gets to decide what is a religion and what is not ? This is very shaky territory you’re on here. It doesn’t matter whether it is a tax avoidance ruse or not (and now that Elron is dead I think it is obviously much more than that).

    And the fairytales they guard are nothing other than a cover for the scam – a common bait and switch scam for the gullible/vulnerable/whatever.

    I can think of a lot of religions that are like that.

    Emily, as I said in my earlier post I am a Scientology watcher and I’m well aware of their nutjob tendancies.

    These people are responsible for some of the most heinous human rights abuses you will ever read in your life.

    I’m well aware of Scientology’s culture of child abuse as well as psychological terrorism, however compared with the Spanish Inquisition I think they are tame.

    If it were just a matter of the aliens bit, I wouldn’t care, as silly as I think it is. If you don’t believe me, walk into any of their centers and ask them about Xenu to experience some of the abuse first hand yourself.

    Been there, done it, bought several t-shirts. I am well aware of what Scientology are at, and have been since around about six years ago when a friend of mine nearly got sucked in by one of their “personality tests” at their drop-in centre in Dublin.

    What I’m talking about here is a wider issue of religion, who gets to define what is a legitimate religion or is not, and how we characterize religious groupings in accordance with the serious rights abuses they have committed in the past. You can’t possibly say that Scientology have committed anything on the scale that the paedophile priests in the Irish Catholic Church did. I am not saying that your criticism of Scientology is misplaced – I’m saying that it’s a serious misjudgement to represent other religions as somehow “normal” in comparison. Scientology, like the Spanish Inquisition, constitutes a religion in that it allows heinous crimes to be excused due to the replacement of rational thought by dogma and blind faith.

    abucs:

    Well the Christian church’s pursuit of silly things such as the true nature of our creation / reality has led directly to modern western (now international) science.

    Complete and total nonsense. Christianity blocked scientific study anywhere it could and it ostracized those who tried to show how facts were at variance with the official scripture. Look how long it took for Rome to forgive Galileo Galilei for Pete’s sake. Don’t try to tell me that science or rationality is in any way compatible with blind faith, dogma and religious authoritarianism – it quite plainly is not.

    It’s doctrines of experimental proof and theories needing to fit experimental results has led mankind a long way on finding this reality.

    These are a complete anathema to any religion.

    The rest of your argument is just a lot of bunkum. It would have been easier if you’d just come out and said “I don’t really understand wave particle duality, therefore God must have created the world” instead of trying to dazzle people with crap.

  • Young Fogey

    I have a Scientology “Celebrity Centre” about 10 doors down from me. They put things through my door every couple of weeks. They are nuttier than a whole field of conker trees.

    Not to be trifled with, though. Google SeaOrg if you want to know what I mean.

  • Emily

    Bollocks, Stalin. The Spanish Inquisition happened hundreds of years ago when the human race in general was much more cruel and if that sort of behavior had continued they would not have survived.

    “You can’t possibly say that Scientology have committed anything on the scale that the paedophile priests in the Irish Catholic Church did.”

    While what was done by those priests, especially the part the Church played in the cover-up is unforgiveable, you’d better bet your sweep boopy I can say it’s not on the same scale. It’s much worse. I live in the city where they have their largest presence in the world and have heard nothing but story after story after story, some of them from close friends, since I was a teenager that make your examples very tame by comparison. Noone can define “religion” exactly, but they sure as hell can define “crime.”

  • Pete Baker

    Stalin

    You seem to have misunderstood my point.

    Which is.. it’s not that I, personally, view religions per se as rational belief systems. It’s that S’tology isn’t a religion, merely a ruse/scam – elron’s death doesn’t affect that as far as the organisation is concerned btw.

    And thanks for the critique, although the ground I’m on is perfectly stable.. But I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.. along with many other points no doubt.

  • Pete Baker

    Comrade

    Since you invoked my name when mentioning Galileo.. sort of.. I thought I’d link a previous post which contains a little more information on Galileo and what happened at his trial – eppur si muove

  • SlugFest

    Pete,

    ““One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth..”

    yes, but i’d say two in five think the earth revolves around them. the other two, or 40%, are the clear-headed ones (like meself) who know, regardless of the galaxy’s orbits, the rest of the world wants to kick our ass and get us the hell out of iraq.

    i know, i know … off topic! 🙂

  • Pete Baker

    Extremely off topic, SlugFest. :p

  • Comrade Stalin

    Bollocks, Stalin. The Spanish Inquisition happened hundreds of years ago when the human race in general was much more cruel

    I’d love to see you substantiate that. How on earth do you quantify human cruelty over the decades ?

    and if that sort of behavior had continued they would not have survived.

    The Spanish Inquisition is but one example of what people are capable of when they think they’re doing God’s work. The comparison with Scientology is valid in this respect.

    Your perspective of the world as a rather more cuddly place than back in the dark days seems naive, considering that we are only a few decades away from the most destructive war ever in human history where millions of people were killed and millions more displaced. The role of religion in that war is a controversial one; the men driving the mass destruction and murder sought and often won backing from religious orders. Before then but after the founding of the Spanish Inquisition, entire continents were enslaved by colonists (have you heard of the term “manifest destiny”?). Fast-forwarding to the present, there are people right now out picketing on the streets calling for all of those who insult their religion to be summarily executed, and there are states which rule along that basis.

    I have no dispute with anything that you have said about Scientology, but we need to get some perspective. I think they are a dangerous organization and they need to be stopped. I have no doubt that they are doing horrible things to people where you live. But the question is about how to do that without infringing on civil and religious liberties. I find the concept of a state-approved (or disapproved) religion, as is implicitly the case through the US tax code, to be an abomination – the state should have no business interfering with religion but equally the state should have no business funding or promoting it.

    Where is it you live which is controlled by Scientology, is it Clearwater ? Honest question this – what is it about Scientology that seems to permit it to constantly abuse and even murder people, while still retaining the capacity to recruit new members ?

    Pete :

    It’s that S’tology isn’t a religion

    Why ?

  • Emily

    “Your perspective of the world as a rather more cuddly place than back in the dark days seems naive, considering that we are only a few decades away from the most destructive war ever in human history where millions of people were killed and millions more displaced.

    Um….?

    “Where is it you live which is controlled by Scientology, is it Clearwater ? ”

    No. Los Angeles. I didn’t say they controlled the place, just that it’s were they maintain their largest presence.

    “Honest question this – what is it about Scientology that seems to permit it to constantly abuse and even murder people, while still retaining the capacity to recruit new members ?”

    Continuous acts of threats, abuse, intimidation and harrassment of anyone that criticizes or attempts to investigate them.

  • Pete Baker

    Comrade

    I’d prefer it if you didn’t take a selective quote out my replies. It’s a petty way to conduct a discussion.

    I realise that you’re taken by the semantic argument about what does or doesn’t constitute a religion.. but, as I attempted to point out, that really doesn’t figure in my assessment of S’tology.

  • Mik

    Or course, by suppressing the episode the Church of Elron have scored a massive own goal. Parker and Stone get to claw back some of their lost satirical credibility whilst curious viewers who would never have watched the episode on the Tube will now seek it out in cyberspace.

    Personally I saw the ep a while back. Whilst it’s not top drawer South Park it’s still very funny and the points it makes do need to be repeated whenever or wherever the Church of ElRon raises its head.

    I may, if my schedule allows, watch it again in a double bill with the Jose Chung’s Doomsday Defence, the Scientology mocking episode of Millennium.

  • abucs

    Comrade,

    the interesting part about the dual nature of light is that it sometimes acts like a particle (photon) and sometimes like a wave. The acting as a wave is curious because there is no medium for protons to ‘wave in’. The search for this medium (ether) came up conclusively negative in the last century.

    The more interesting part is that when light (a collection of photons) is examined as single photons, it still acts as a wave as long as we don’t keep track of where that photon is. When we do, or even when we choose to even have the possibility of knowing, then the wave phenomena dissappears and it acts as a particle.

    The most famous experiment, repeated many times is the Feyman double slit experiment and this has been done with a variety of substances, not just photons. There have been other designed experiments, each one showing the same conclusion that matter is not acting in a ‘regular’ physical way.

    It’s quite conclusive and i’d love to debate this here or offline or any other of the orthodox science i originally mentioned.

    I stand by my words that modern science came from the church. If you look at the early investigations into many fields of science you will find churchman there.

    If you look at Galileo his work built on the previous studies into optics of a French bishop. There is no doubt that the church were resistant to ideas that conflicted with theology. But there is also no doubt that they played the bigger role in the birth of modern western science.

    Just as the modern scientific community ridiculed Einstein about relativity and 50 years later it was orthodoxy, so the church ridiculed Galileo and 50 years later Catholic priests were teaching the Chinese that the Earth was round, and travelled around the sun.

  • abucs

    Comrade again,

    i would add that the fact that matter acts differently depending on what we know of it’s history is the most profound discovery of science.

    We can have a set of experiments where we capture two sets of information. One for the trajectory of a photon and one for the end destination. We can collect these results electronically and choose whether to destroy the first set of information or not.

    We can wait 5 -10 years, it doesn’t matter.

    If we choose to destroy the trajectory information and then look at the destination results, every time the matter acted as a wave.

    If we look at the trajectory results and then check the destination result, every time we do this the matter acted as a particle.

    There is no getting around it. Our conscious knowledge affects what matter does. It is scientific orthodoxy and this experimement and other similar experiments designed by many eminant scientists (who believe in a completely physical deterministic world view) point quite strongly in fact to a non deterministic universe.

    What these experiments show is that human knowledge / consciousness is tied up with the laws of physics.

    There is no blind chance to physics.

    Consciousness was there at the start.

    Adressing your statement of religion not being compatible with reason.

    It depends if you draw the line of religion finishing and reason beginning.

    I don’t draw a line there. And i am quite comfortable in science continuuing to address these matters.

    I see my religion and the science that was created from it, within the same line.

  • TAFKABO

    Consciousness was there at the start.

    According to your interpretation of the data.
    that doesn’t make it so.

  • abucs

    What i would argue TAFKABO is that if :

    1. matters’ behaviour obeys the laws of physics and
    2. matters’ behaviour is also affected directly by the experimentors knowledge (consciousness) that
    3. The laws of physics and consciousness are intertwined and that
    4. If the laws of physics have always been present in our universe then
    5. consciousness, or the knowledge of consciousness has also been present.

    You may have another interpretation – fair enough.

    But i think it is hard for some people to argue that the laws of physics can be bound to consciousness before consciousness existed.

    This is my humble reading of it anyway.

  • DK

    “1. matters’ behaviour obeys the laws of physics and
    2. matters’ behaviour is also affected directly by the experimentors knowledge (consciousness)”

    3. The experimentor is made out of matter.
    4. Conciousness is created by matter.
    5. Conciousnessness obeys the laws of physics

    There is no intertwining.

  • abucs

    DK, it is the conscious knowledge that changes the result, not matter.

    Whether you choose to look at the first part of the experiment or not, your matter ends up much the same. It is your knowledge that changes.

    There is also the issue that your knowledge needs only to be gained before your look at the final results, which as mentioned can be well after the actual experiment.

    There are other variants of the experiment devised where your lack of knowledge changes the result.

    There is no ‘classical’ reason for matter to act differently depending on what you may subsequantly decide to know or not know.