Txt: “Do all in your power to stop it!”

The Sunday Times seems to have had a sizeable chunk of their editorial team on the streets of Dublin yesterday. So far no one admits to organising the riot. Mass text messages summoned between 150 and 200 to O’Connell Street. It seems to have been planned in such a way that few of the ‘usual suspects’ would have been in evidence to the local Guards until the march was due to start. Intriguingly it quotes a Sinn Fein councillor saying that they had all been told beforehand to have their alibis ready. But despite some fevered rumours there is no evidence that anyone from Sinn Fein was involved in yesterday’s actions.

  • TAFKABO

    There were probably some Sinn Fein voters or supporters involved, but I seriously doubt that the organisations itself had anything to do with events.

    It just makes no logical sense whatsover for Sinn Fein to have wanted yesterdays events to unfold the way they did.

    Sinn fein are a lot of things, but they’re not that stupid.

  • Brian Boru

    Interesting that the report confirms that busloads of republicans from NI were bussed in. Underlines how unrepresentative the rioters were of southern society.

  • Brian-

    They may have been bussed-in from this neck of the woods, but they are totally unrepresentative of northern society also.

  • EWI

    Intriguingly it quotes a Sinn Fein councillor saying that they had all been told beforehand to have their alibis ready.

    Turn on your humour detector. I suspct he was joking.

    Btw, I was there yesterday and Nordie accents were as rare as future volunteers to go duck-shooting with Dick Cheney.

  • Yer Woman

    Was it not The Sunday Independant that had loads of editorial staff on the ground?

  • heck

    “But despite some fevered rumours there is no evidence that anyone from Sinn Fein was involved in yesterday’s actions.”

    in unionist think that means SF must have “done it” after all they are so clever they are the only ones who would leave no evidence. (sounds like the northern Bank job.)

    Therefore another excuse for no talks.

  • JK

    Looked to me like the local skanger population done most of the rioting. The interesting bit will be seen when the details of the people arrested and charged come out. I would not be at all surprised to see a big list of local skangers

  • Figgis

    Mick wrote:

    “The Sunday Times seems to have had a sizeable chunk of their editorial team on the streets of Dublin yesterday. So far no one admits to organising the riot.”

    Perhaps it wasn’t organised. That’s what the Gardai are saying. maybe if the Sunday Times and Sunday Independent devoted a few more resources to talking to the Asst garda Commissioner and less to inventing unevidenced and unnattributable propaganda we’d all be a lot better informed

    “What effectively took place then was that the parade was hijacked by
    a number of hoodlums and gangsters who came out of a lot of local pubs
    who were hell bent on causing damage….. ” the Assistant Commissioner
    said.

    Irish Examiner

    Gardaí admit Dublin riot was unexpected

    26/02/2006 – 15:12:22

    An Garda Siochana had no intelligence to suggest a planned peaceful
    march by unionists through Dublin would be hijacked by republican
    rioters, one of the force’s most senior officers revealed today.

    Assistant Garda Commissioner Alan McHugh admitted there was no
    indication hundreds of thugs would descend on the city centre intent
    on causing mayhem and attacking the Love Ulster rally.

    “We were depending on intelligence, we don’t normally speak about
    intelligence, but certainly it was clear that there was a counter
    protest but no intelligence whatsoever to indicate that the violence,
    even planned violence, that took place in Dublin was going to take
    place,” he said.

    “The intelligence that was available to us from different sources,
    including the PSNI, was that no high grade protesting was going to
    take place on the day.

    Assistant Commissioner McHugh said his officers were aware members of
    hard-line Republican Sinn Féin planned to gather at the entrance to
    O’Connell Street to protest against the loyalist parade.

    But he said they did not expect the indiscriminate violence that
    ensued.

    “What effectively took place then was that the parade was hijacked by
    a number of hoodlums and gangsters who came out of a lot of local pubs
    who were hell bent on causing damage who were armed with hammers and
    petrol bombs,” the Assistant Commissioner said.

    Over 40 rioters who fought running battles with riot police over the
    disputed demonstration by unionists and victims of IRA terrorism were
    arrested.

    All those who appeared in court were aged between 17 and 30, gardai
    have confirmed.

    “Relying on the intelligence that was available to us there was
    nothing to indicate, and we prepared our policing plan based on the
    risks involved which were low risk,” Assistant Commissioner McHugh
    told RTÉ Radio.

    “The intelligence that was available to us indicated that nothing of
    the scale that took place was going to take place.”

  • Dave

    I have read all the posts re: the riots in Dublin.

    Will the Irish take (any) responsibility or will it be a case that it was someone else to blame?

    It is time for the Irish to take a good look at themselves (think Rabbie Burns) “if only you could see yourself as others see you”

    If you wish for others to see you as you see yourself then it’s time to get rid of political Republican violence and the MOPE chip on your shoulder.

    It is time for democracy to be seen and not just talked about.

    By the way, a lot of those who have made Er.. comments on the riot situation have more than a chip on their shoulder..in my opinion that is.

    Protestants and their culture is neither wanted or welcome in the republic of Ireland that seems to be very clear. If you feel that I am tarring everyone with the same brush then you will now understand how the other community feel when they read your comments.

    Why do so few protestants reside in the South and so many catholic reside in the North??? there must be an answer to that question would anyone care to venture an answer?

  • Manc

    Possibly due to the Ulster Plantation. Scots were sent over to Ulster mainly, accounting for the high proportion of Protestants in the North. If violence and injustice truly made people move out of the North or South there would be no Catholics left in the North at all after 1921.

    You are tarring the people of the republic with one biased brush. 300 people having a riot (many of whom were anarchists, not republicans) does not constitute the majority view opf the South. As demonstrated by the Gardaí, the republic is more than willing to protect a Protestant’s point of view and rights.

    Stop blowing this situation out of proportion.

  • written all over your face

    Does the Garda not read the internet then?

  • Paul

    There would seem to be a 200 strong skank/spide “community” in central Dublin who just love to get involved in political demos to do a spot of cop-bashing, looting and acts of random violence. Didn’t the same thing happen at a “Reclaim the Streets” demo just over a year ago? What happened yesterday certainly didn’t shame me as an Irish person, you get these idiots everywhere.

  • missfitz

    is it time to blame the parades commission yet?

  • Mick, would you explain why my post around 4:43 PM was taken down?

  • me

    so its just the people of dublin who don,t want the protestant?

  • Manc

    Again, 300 people do not constitute the “people of dublin”.

    Over-reaction seems to be the flavour of the day for Unionists. If there was a similar parade scheduled in Belfast by southern republicans you could be sure that there would be a few local hoods out for a riot. The point to be taken out of this situation is that a certain element in society will jump on any event to use it as an excuse for wanton violence.

    The people rioting on the streets of Ireland are not true republicans.

  • Manc

    The Ireland there should be Dublin

  • Mick Fealty

    Trow,

    You made certain accusations without offering any proof or backup.

    I’m in favour of giving you a platform for your views, but not if I’m the one likely to be actioned in court.

  • west belfast resident

    Haven’t we overlooked the fact that 2 of the men who were in court last night were LITHUANIAN. Booting in a window to steal the goods.

  • west belfast resident

    Post 19 was made by me.LOL

    WBR

  • Brian Boru

    “Why do so few protestants reside in the South and so many catholic reside in the North??? there must be an answer to that question would anyone care to venture an answer?”

    The Protestant population in the South has always been far scarcer than the North because the Plantations were less successful down here. The 2002 census showed a sharp rise in the Protestant population and this is expected to be confirmed in Census 2006. I suggest that people take note of the religious aspect of the findings which will likely be released in 2007. The decline in the Protestant % of the population has halted in the last 10 years. Go to http://www.cso.ie and click on “Population”, then on “Census 2002” for more detailed info.

    What happened to the US Loyalists after the US War of Independence?

    Compared to that, I think the South can claim to have a good record on its treatment of minorities. If people are determined to leave, then nothing a democratic and civilised government does is going to stop it. In 1921, 7% of the population of the South was Protestant. It is a fact that generally these were Unionists, but it is also a fact that the 9-county Ulster ones were much more determined in their opposition to Home Rule and then independence. A British intelligence report said of Unionists in Co.Donegal around 1920 “There is a very bitter feeling against Home Rule among the Loyalists of this county”. In 1911, the Protestant population of the 26 counties was around 280,000 or 10% of the population.

    1911 is a significant date in explaining the subsequent decline in Protestantism before 1925. The Parliament Act passed that year, removing the veto of the House of Lords on legislation after 2 years. To many border Unionists, it was now clear that in majority Nationalist areas, it was likely their areas would come under a Dublin government. Partition began to be talked about, and the UVF was set up to resist HR. Therefore, Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan Unionists started an exodus from the South so as to be in the part of Ireland most likely to be outside of HR, given that Asquith made it clear in 1914 that ‘Ulster’ would have special provisions after the War. Add to that significant Protestant casualties during WW1. The year 1925 is also significant, as that was when the Boundary Commission on revising the North-South border was due to report. Some Unionists stayed behind in the border counties in the hope that their areas would be handed to NI. JR Fisher, the Unionist on the commission, illegal leaked the report to the press, and it showed that a rich part of East Donegal containing 7,000 Protestants was to be given to the North, whereas miniscule and poor cantons of South Armagh and Fermanagh were to go to the South. Naturally the Southern govt rejected this, and at a meeting in London, the govts in London, Dublin and Belfast agreed to suppress the report and leave the border as it was. Because of this, a further exodus of Protestants from the border counties happened. By 1926, Protestant numbers had fallen to 206,000. While it may be regarded as unfortunate that 100,000 or so left (or died in WW1) since 1911, the Southern state can say it did not force them out. In fact, during the Civil War, the Dublin govt set up a special security force to protect Protestants in places like Co.Louth. The majority of the exodus was by choice, but some of it wasn’t.

    In subsequent decades, the decline continued due mainly to the Ne Temere decree, a Catholic Church rule that non-Catholic’s would have to sign, before marrying a Catholic, a pledge to raise their children in the Catholic faith. Due to the very thinly spread Protestant population outside of the border areas, marriages tended to be to Catholics, resulting in the children being Catholics. Even so, the decline in Protestant numbers was happening at a far slower rate than in the period 1911-26. While the number declined by another 100,000 in the next 70 years, it only took 15 years for that to happen in the period 1911-26. Clearly then, the facts bear out the thesis that fear of rule by a majority-Catholic govt was the primary reason for the decline before 1926, whereas afterwards it was intermarriage. There is no evidence of an organised plot by the Dublin authorities to ethnically-cleansed Southern Protestants.

    Population-trends often belief the fate of the relevant groups. The Catholic % in NI rose from 31% to 41%, but they had a truly nightmarish time up there from 1920-72, and for some time afterwards in terms of under-representation in the RUC, Civil Service (still) and at the hands of collusion. It is far too simplistic to measure the treatment of a minority on the basis of the increase/decrease in its numbers.

  • Brian Boru

    The word “belief” in the last paragraph should be “belie”.

    Brian Boru

  • TAFKABO

    I don’t agree with all of it, but interesting and informative post all the same.
    Thanks for taking the time.

    ~~TAFKABO~~

  • And I must say, TAFKABO5, that I don’t believe you. ‘Martin Ingram’ is not about to sue anyone, and you are not interested in any evidence about the riot being caused by a FRU-RSF psy-ops operation.

    Earlier today, I did write a long e-mail about ‘Martin Ingram’s activities, based on his post right after the riot in which he bragged about the Brits and the Prots being on top of the bus, able to “summon the surfs” as they saw fit, but it, and a replacement e-mail, were not able to be posted – the first falsely rejected because it did match the code word – and the second was taken, only to disappear without a trace, so I shall not waste any more of my time dealing with your deceptions.

  • Reader

    Brian Boru: leaked the report to the press, and it showed that a rich part of East Donegal containing 7,000 Protestants was to be given to the North, whereas miniscule and poor cantons of South Armagh and Fermanagh were to go to the South.
    I have seen the map too. There was to be a net transfer of both land and population to the south. But I can’t blame the Dail for not wanting Crossmaglen.
    (Reader)

  • Harry Flashman

    Not a bad summary Brian Boru but you completely left out the mass exodus from County Cork of protestants which was very much a result of republican, er, “encouragement”, if what happened in 1969 in the Falls can be called a “pogrom” (a ludicrous comparison, by the way, but very popular with Shinners) then what happened in Cork in 1921/22 was a pogrom also.

    And one other thing, Northern Ireland between 1920 and 1972 “a truly nightmarish time” for catholics? Come on man catch a grip, your post was fairly sensible up to that, a population that expands by 33% is clearly not suffering too badly, say compared to Armenians in Turkey, Jews in Mitteleurop, Tutsis in Rwanda or the people in Darfur

    Let’s try to keep things in perspective eh?

    – HARRY FLASHMAN –