Paisley: lawyers involved in money laundering…

After his meeting with Tony Blair yesterday, Ian Paisley has stated that many lawyers in the North are involved in IRA money-laundering.

  • bootman

    Typical Paisley…. stir it and then walk away

  • seabhac siulach

    These are scurrilous accusations based on nothing more than vague references to ‘police briefings’; the old ‘well-placed sources’ routine…and should be treated with the derision they deserve.

    If anyone is guilty of money-laundering let them be arrested and tried…anything else is just malicious rumour.
    It is obvious that this is just another tired attempt to blacken individuals associated (in any way) with republicans and I would say it comes close to incitement to hatred. Are all lawyers in nationalist area now to be targets for loyalist paramilitaries? It is a typical example of the utter lack of responsibility shown by Paisley as the supposed leader of Unionism. He, more than anyone, should know that careless words can cost lives.

    All of this, anyway, is just a preemptive attempt on the part of the DUP to rubbish the IMC report, before it is even published…and to sow the seed in their followers’ minds that the IRA is still involved in criminality (or has not fully decommissioned its weapons) despite international monitoring bodies proving that this is so, etc. It is criminally irresponsible, but we have come to expect nothing less from the DUP.

  • bog warrior

    SS

    Have to agree with you on this one. If the DUP are in possession of info/evidence let them forward it to the authorities and if there’s a case to be taken it can then be answered. if there’s no evidence then its just so much hot air. Listened to Rory McShane of the Law Society on Radio Ulster this morning and he was aware of only 1 solicitor convicted of maney-laundering activity in the past 10 years (i think). He also spoke about the ongoing work that’s done with solicitors to keep them up to date on the legal requirements they must meet to ensure they aren’t facilitating money laundering. There was no one on from the DUP on and the presenter didn’t say whether or not they had been invited and declined to appear.

  • Typical DUP

    I noticed Paisley didn’t have the bottle to name people?

    He wouldn’t last a minute in court!

    He is a bluffer

  • Shore Road Resident

    So seabhac siulach – who do you think should arrest and try them?

  • JD

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4647134.stm

    Maybe there is some truth in Paisleys comments.

  • And now you see the REAL immorality emanating from these supposed icons of righteousness.
    A dirty move if ever there was one.
    The huge problem as I see it, is that no-one in Ireland, North or South, Republican or Nationalist is able to successfully exploit these underhand moves.
    I have to say with deep regret, to Ireland, that your chess-playing
    is not up to the level required to defeat this man,
    and swipe him off the board.

  • seabhac siulach

    Shore Road Resident:

    “So seabhac siulach – who do you think should arrest and try them?”

    Ah, I see, keeping on topic as usual. No mention of Paisley but an attempt to move on to the old topic of policing (and their recognition)…

    Well, if Mr. Paisley has been briefed by the police, that is, the PSNI, then surely, it is these who should be doing the arresting…
    I see no contradiction here. It is Paisley who is acknowledging the role/authority of the police in this situation, no one else. By his logic and from his perspective, it is the PSNI that should do the arresting. Therefore, if there is evidence let the arrests take place, if not, then let Paisley keep quiet, for once. He is merely shit stiring in advance and in preparation for the IMC report.

  • Betty Boo

    JD,
    Are there any more politicians who are also lawyers or solicitors?
    Going by Ian Paisley’s statement then most of them are involved in IRA money laundering. But Raymond Ferguson from the UUP!?!

  • JD

    Betty Boo,
    You have obviously missed the sacrcasm in my post. I agree with earlier posters, this is a dangerous nonsense being erected by the DUP as yet another obstacle to progress.

  • Betty Boo

    JD,
    I didn’t but maybe you’ve missed mine?

  • fair_deal

    Yawn I see the desire to squeal incessantly anytime Papa Doc opens his mouth continues.

    However, is this not a statement of the bloody obvious?

    Across the world to run a successful money-laundering operation of any sort of scale needs the involvement of the legal and accounting professionals. The drug cartels use them, the mafia use them, criminal gangs on the mainland and the RoI use them and terrorist groups use them.

    Are people trying to argue that money launderers in Northern Ireland have found a way to launder millions without involving professionals in those transactions?

    Is Northern Ireland blessed with having a professional class that is 100% beyond reproach and would never ever get involved in anything dodgy?

  • seabhac siulach

    fair_deal

    “Yawn I see the desire to squeal incessantly anytime Papa Doc opens his mouth continues. ”

    Not sure about the squealing bit, but it is not as if everything that comes out of Paisley’s mouth is innocent or does not cause a lot of harm. History, I think, may back me up here…
    Hence, I think it valid to criticise, squeal about, those comments of his that are completely irresponsible.

    Your point would be valid if Paisley was merely referring to lawyers in general…unfortunately, he has qualified his remarks by only referring to IRA money-laundering. He does not mention, for example, the obvious example of loyalist drug money and the consequent laundering of this. Why? Because, it is a low attempt to cast dispersions on EVERY nationalist lawyer and on the republicans in general in advance of the IMC and to hell with the consequences for the subsequent security of countless lawyers…

    It is the fact that he focuses on the IRA angle and not on just lawyers in general that is the important point, in my most humble opinion…

  • TAFKABO

    It is interesting to compare and contrast the reaction to statements made by Paisley and Alban McGuinness in recent days.

    Paisley makes claims about people allegedly aiding and abbetting the IRA, and tgere is an outcry about waiting for evidence, irresponsible claims etc.

    Alban makes claims about the police helping killers to escape justice and it is accepted without question by some of the same people.

  • Shore Road Resident

    I’m also mystifed by SF’s hysterical reaction to this. Or rather I’m not, because it’s obvious that the doc has hit a raw nerve.
    If anyone should be retracting statements today it’s Gerry Kelly for suggesting that a perfectly credible accusation amounts to incitement to murder. Ludicrous.

  • martin ingram

    Seabhac,

    You see this process is built upon trust. We only have the IRAs word that it has decommissioned its arms, yes we have international and local observers who participated in this process BUT what we dont know is exactly what amount of arms was destroyed and WHEN?The when bit is important to gauge the honesty of both the Govts and the IRA.

    I have a feeling that the Intelligence community was not told of the ammounts in case it did not concur with this “Total Decommissioning”. The IMC would then have been informed.

    On this board the other day it was suggested that a few hand guns could have been retained for personal use by IRA members? IF SO! have they been declared and ballistic checks taken so we may monitor the use of these arms? if not WHY NOT?

    Finally the IRA have a terrible record of telling the truth indeed Sinn Fein members would find it difficult sleeping straight in bed at night never mind giving an honest answer .

    Trust is built upon time and deeds. The IRA are on probation at this moment and as we all know that means you are monitored before you are elliible to re-enter normal society.

    Quote”that the IRA is still involved in criminality (or has not fully decommissioned its weapons) despite international monitoring bodies proving that this is so”Unquote

    Where , When and in What strenth? and of course in time if you are good.

  • fair_deal

    1. Paisley used the phrase many lawyers – he did not say all – so “EVERY nationalist lawyer” is what you imagine him saying not what he actually said.
    2. Paisley is basically repeating what the ARA said a number of months ago. When challenged on the disparity in the ARA’s success against loyalists in comparison with republicans, it explained its greater success against Loyalists was because much of their money laundering was unsophisticated ie buying huge cars and houses with no discernable income but republican money-laundering was more sophisticated that is why it was taking the ARA longer to tackle it. The sophistication of their money-laundering no doubt comes from professional expertise.
    3. Loyalists moneylaunderers aren’t demanding the devolution of policing and justice powers but republican money launderers want one of their political mates put into the ministerial post. Thus a focus on the IRA money-laundering.
    4. A similar debate also rages in the Republic again hence the emphasis on the IRA as it is relevant to the debate down there and explains why a website with a stroinger southern focus picked it up.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    These smears are always painted with a broad brush and as stated Paisley et al can walk away as if nothing has happpened.

    Again, would it not be incumbent on the impartial(sic) media to interrogate Paisley on these claims? Hound him until he is forced to be specific or is shown to be a twisted old liar who historically has used words as directions for his erstwhile colleagues in the UDA and UVF.

  • Shore Road Resident

    The media here hounds no-one.
    Why should Paisley be any different?

  • It’s a smart ploy. Announcing it right after meeting with the PM even gives a official cast to the publicity stunt.

    It is inconvenient at the time to kill the lawyers who represent republicans and those who further the republican cause by their continued success at working within the system, so the next best thing is to disqualify them.

    Federal prosecutors torpedoed trial lawyers representing Mafia figures by alleging that they shared in the profits of a criminal organization under the RICO act by accepting payment. The only way they got Gotti was to use this reasoning prevent Bruce Cutler from defending him. Cutler ran rings around that putz Giuliani.

    No one ever lost money betting that Paisley was crafty old fart.

  • Henry94

    Paisley is beneth contempt as ever but what is very clear is that the the PNSI have failed to stop their members from briefing against nationalist lawyers. We know where that has led it the past and Ian Paisley knows it too.

  • Reader

    Smilin Jims…: “disqualify them” ?
    Does this seem at all likely? It’s going to take more than Ian Paisley complaining to disqualify every defence lawyer in Northern Ireland, now, isn’t it?
    Does the RICO act apply in Northern Ireland? No!

  • Comrade Stalin

    As CG will undoubtedly be able to confirm, lawyers who handle any amount of money here are covered by very strict legislation which basically holds them responsible if they move funds around without checking the background carefully; they are even expected to inform the authorities if they are approached to deal with a shady transaction. The penalties for a lawyer caught at this would be stiff. Why would they take the risk ?

  • Sean

    ‘If anyone should be retracting statements today it’s Gerry Kelly for suggesting that a perfectly credible accusation amounts to incitement to murder.’

    Considering what happened to Pat Finucane there is very little ludicrous about Kelly’s statement.

  • HolyGhost

    I see martin ingram has problems with his focus and concentration, he’s unable to even catch the thread here never mind discuss it.

  • Dec

    Martin

    You see this process is built upon trust. We only have the IRAs word that it has decommissioned its arms, yes we have international and local observers who participated in this process BUT what we dont know is exactly what amount of arms was destroyed and WHEN?The when bit is important to gauge the honesty of both the Govts and the IRA.

    I have a feeling that the Intelligence community was not told of the ammounts in case it did not concur with this “Total Decommissioning”. The IMC would then have been informed.

    having read your previous posts with interest, I would have thought that all those touts you’ve mentioned (Martin, Gerry, Gerry, Brian etc) would have made sure all the weapons were decommissioned. Surely British intelligence told them to?

  • It’s going to take more than Ian Paisley complaining to disqualify every defence lawyer in Northern Ireland, now, isn’t it?

    Minus five points for poor reading comprehension, Reader.
    The quote was
    many lawyers in the North are involved in IRA money-laundering

    Now, pulling out your trusty Venn diagram, intersect the sets of lawyers in the north and money launders. The cat’s eye you observe is obviously not “every defence lawyer in Northern Ireland” and probably doesn’t even contain the guys that represented the Prentice brothers in the “Committee” case. Here I also assume we are lumping barrister and solicitor into “lawyer”.

    Does the RICO act apply in Northern Ireland? No!

    Minus two and a half points for deliberate miscomprehension.

    It’s still a damned interesting point, even if it’s original inclusion was meant to serve as an example to suggest how the existing law could be bent to curtail the defendants rights, not as a literal legislative suggestion. Anyone who thought up the Diplock courts can surely jury-rig something.

    I have never understood why, with all the Draconian legislation that Parliament has passed in the past 30 years, that they haven’t picked up on the RICO statutes that we used in the 70’s to wreck the Mafia. Just the seizure of criminal assets that we’ve used for thirty years against everyone from the Gambino Family to the Hell’s Angels was only recently attempted in Ireland, ferchristsakkes!!

    Are these bozos really trying to end this thing or are they only playing at it? Is it a hobby? Surely the crafters of the Official Secrets Act cannot be aghast at the damage RICO would do to individual freedom. It would only rearrange the rubble.

  • Reader

    Smilin Jim…: “reading comprehension”
    I was dealing with *your* remarks, not Paisley’s. Republicans can be represented by any lawyer, can’t they? Do they really need to be represented by ideological allies? Paisley’s remarks aren’t going to “disqualify” anyone, are they? (Remember – you introduced the word “disqualify” to this discussion.) So – net result is – no-one is going to be disqualified, and if they were, well, there are plenty more lawyers untainted by illegality to do the job.
    Smilin Jim…: I have never understood why, with all the Draconian legislation that Parliament has passed in the past 30 years, that they haven’t picked up on the RICO statutes that we used in the 70’s to wreck the Mafia.
    Well, it looks like your assumptions or your logic have led you up a blind alley, since it didn’t happen.

  • fair_deal

    CS

    “The penalties for a lawyer caught at this would be stiff. Why would they take the risk ?”

    For the same reason all corrupt individuals do, the potential profits from their corruption outweigh the potential for and actual penalties.

  • aquifer

    Unless some posters establish that PIRA have never been involved in a transfer of land, what Paisley has said must be correct.

    Very loyalist of these posters to support their co-revolutionaries in every instance, but going out on a limb every time just leaves some of you dangling.

  • Kim Philby

    Unless some posters establish that PIRA have never been involved in a transfer of land, what Paisley has said must be correct.

    That is as comprehensive a misunderstanding of the concepts of “burden of proof” and “proving a negative” as it is possible to squeeze into a short sentence. Well done.

  • fair_deal

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0201/cab.html

    “Gardaí have raided more than 20 properties including a pub, a hotel and a number of solicitors and accountants’ offices in Dublin and Meath as part of an investigation into IRA money laundering.”

    Are the Gardai involved in setting up accountants and solicitors? Or is it an example of how money laundering needs the involvment of professionals? Paisley’s claims don’t seem so wild now do they?