IRA man to move to the States…

According to the McCartney sisters, the man who gave the order to kill their brother is planning to emigrate to the US. It appears he is not one of the two people charged with Robert McCartney’s murder.

  • Henry94

    I find it hard to believe that someone who is a suspect in this case would get a visa for the US.

  • Thomas

    Henry

    The man (sorry)person has not been charged with any crime so has not been found guilty of any crime so therefore is free to travel.

    But the US may still stop him as a suspected terrorist.

  • Dec

    Henry

    Visa applications are not issued on the basis of Paula McCartney’s say so.

  • Henry’s point, I think, is not to do with charges but rather the enormous difficulty of getting a visa facing any former IRA volunteer. It’s my understanding that it’s generally only granted in exceptional cases.

  • Dec

    Considering the source, I’ll not pass judgement on the story’s veracity just yet. Though it’s obviously served its’ purpose judging by its prominence on the BBC NI website and news bulletins.

  • Dec

    That should have read ‘accept’ not ‘pass judgement’.

  • Perhaps more than anything to date, this highlights the “other side” of the McCartney story. I live in Short Strand and have witnessed a number of events which have gone unreported due to the incredibly biased media coverage of the aftermath of the tragic event which occurred. The person alluded to by the McCartneys has NEVER been charged with any offence by the PSNI despite exhaustive enquiries. Some prior media reports indicated that the PSNI had no evidence that this individual had given any such order.He has maintained his innocence from Day 1 and charges have now been brought against those responsible. The fact that Paula McCartney is attempting yet another trial by media will not come as a surprise to the majority within Short Strand who have witnessed the family make countless unfounded accusations based on hearsay and innuendo. It is information from the district which has led to charges against those responsible. They will be tried accordingly. I have said on previous posts that there was a need for a courageous invetigative journalist to reflect the reality of the campaign which has been undertaken by the McCartney family. EVERYONE within the area is abhorred by what happened but the family have become obsessed by the celebrity status which they obtained and have used it to ‘carte blanche’ make unfounded accusations against many individuals. If they trust the PSNI to see justice is done, then they cannot implement their own arbitrary trail by media againts individuals whom the PSNI are satisdied were not involved. It is disgraceful and needs to be curtailed.

  • bigwhitedove

    Ah,
    I wondered how long it would take for the McCartneys to resurface to show us all just how bad the big bad RA realy are.
    They compain abouted about this individual walking around the strand now they are complaining that he is intending to leave it, maybe a public flogging would suffice!!
    Is this just a coincidence at a time when the Brits are on the ropes over Stormontgate?

  • headmelter

    macswiney,
    I agree entirely, what do these women know about the internal workings of the IRA and what makes their ‘ideas’ about those charged accurate and that of everyone else misconceived.
    It would appear it is not justice they seek but affirmation of their own ideas. It would also make you wonder who is feeding the McCartneys their ‘information’and for what ends?

  • Harry Flashman

    Ah yes the MacCartneys are the real villains here, of course they are. Not a bunch of homicidal maniacs who over three decades butchered with impunity!

    Christ this used to be a balanced site but the Sinners are really getting themselves well ensconced aren’t they? It’s beginning to sound like a SF chatroom.

  • crow

    bigwhitedove

    You make it sound like the ira were not big and bad but the MacCartneys are why is this?

    headmelter

    Maybe it is ordinary decent folk in the strand feeding the MacCartneys but i suppose you would like it to be the securocrats.

  • crow

    Maybe he could borrow a passport off one of the columbia three.

  • Mickhall

    I’m loath to get involved in this argument because in all probability it will descend into whataboutary. But let me ask this question. But let me ask a hypothetical question.

    A senior British officer orders two of his squadies to murder my brother, after some time and much denial by the British, light is thrown onto his death and the two squadies end up before the courts, but the officer denies all knowledge of the killing. I do not believe him but have no proof of his guilt, but hope with time some may emerge.

    I then hear from acquaintances within the British army the officer is to be spirited off to the USA by his former commanding officers, as the last thing they want is for this case to drag on or worse evidence emerge of the mans guilt.

    I realize it will not be a case of the man going through US immigration, but the British army using their contacts in the US to spirt the man away unofficially to a new life in some mid west city; and that will be the last of him as far as my brothers murder is concerned

    Should I do nothing and wave the individual I believe may or may not have ordered my brothers death, or use what contacts I have in the media to scotch any chance of him entering the USA illegally.

    I ask sluggerites what would they do?

    Regards to all.

  • jocky

    Macswiney, your presuming they family “have become obsessed by the celebrity status which they obtained and have used it to ‘carte blanche’ make unfounded accusations against many individuals” their motives are obviously their “celebrity status” why they’re never out of Heat magazine, on B ig Brother, they’ll be in the Jungle next year, getting a make over with Trinny and Sussanah next.

    Maybe their just trying to make sure the people who they think/know who killed their brother doeasn’t get a free pass?

    Oh yeah, they should have kept their heads down, went to the ‘RA for a bit of CRJ, not said anything.

  • Fenian Bastard

    “This person is bigger than the IRA, he’s bigger than the whole movement.”

    What on earth does that mean?

  • crow

    I would like to know what that means also.Or is it just a headline grabber.

  • Shore Road Resident

    Delighted to see that Macswiney, Bigwhitedove and Headmelter all now prefer trial by the courts rather than trial by media.
    That number you’ll be looking for shortly boys is: 999.

  • Dec

    Mick Hall

    Nice analogy but has it ever occured to you that maybe he didn’t order anyone’s murder that night?

  • Mickhall

    Mick Hall

    Nice analogy but has it ever occured to you that maybe he didn’t order anyone’s murder that night?

    Posted by Dec

    Dec,

    Of course it has, I have no idea what the truth is in this case, I was trying to explain what motivates the McCartney families behavior, which to me seems perfectly logical. They are trying to get some kind of justice for their brother and if this upsets vested interests so be it. They are the victims here, as such they may make mistakes or indeed at times go over the top. But when they do, they certainly do not deserve to be smeared or insulted but shown a bit of common decency.

    As to the man in question, im absolutely certain he is well able to look after himself without having go fore’s attacking these women. For him to be connected with such behavior certainly does not serve his interest nor the PRM. These women have acted in an admirable manner, otherwise some of those involved in Mr McCartney’s murder would now be dead. Perhaps some of their critics would do well to ponder on this fact.

  • Damn I-Am

    Wow, I must have missed something. Last I looked it was a bar brawl gone bad that led to McCartney’s unfortunate death. Now I see someone actually ordered the killing? What did the perpetrator do, stop in mid-fight and ring the higher-ups to see if it is OK to stick the knife in McCartney’s chest? Or was the brawl a ruse to get to McCartney? The chances of either scenario being true are as likely as one of the higher ups in Sinn Fein being a British agent. Gotta go check the nuzhound archives to see what else I have missed in the last month or so!

  • TAFKABO

    Wow, I must have missed something. Last I looked it was a bar brawl gone bad that led to McCartney’s unfortunate death. Now I see someone actually ordered the killing? What did the perpetrator do, stop in mid-fight and ring the higher-ups to see if it is OK to stick the knife in McCartney’s chest?

    You have obviously missed the much publicised allegation that someone made a throat cutting gesture to subordinates directly before McCartney was killed.

  • SlugFest

    While i would never want to cast dispersions on the McCartney sisters, as i believe in their campaign for justice, i just don’t think this story holds any water. They may well have heard such a rumor, but the chances of it being true are slim to none:

    1. If this IRA member was ever convicted in the Diplock courts, there’s absolutely no way he would be granted a visa. As it is, your average Joe with no convictions on either side of the border has a difficult enough time getting a visa.

    2. The only way a convicted IRA man can pass through US immigration/security checks at airports is to sneak in. Can this be done? Absolutely — i know of a number of ex-prisoners who have done it post 9/11. You can slip right through at JFK. You can also fly into Toronto and mosey on down. I can’t speak of the other major cities, but i’m sure it’s much the same.

    3. BUT if you’re sneaking in, you tell NO ONE save your contact in the states and maybe one person in Belfast. you don’t go telling the neighborhood and you don’t plan an ‘irish wake.’

  • SlugFest

    sorry … i meant ‘american’, not ‘irish’, wake.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    mickhall,

    the analogy could well fit a certain Colonel who not only escaped a possible appearance in court but has went on to bigger and more lucrative paydays in Iraq.

    No matter on him, the fact of the Mc Cartney case is that the sisters are convinced of this other person’s guilt, regardless of the absence of any formal charges. From their point of view they are well within their rights to continue to point the finger and to a large extent indulge in their own whispering campaign amongst their supporters and sympathetic elements within the media.

    From the point of view of the person being pointed out (and it no great secret as to his identity) what grounds does he, his family and supporters have in what they see as a personal campaign against him? At what point does his attempt to defend himself stray into his very own whispering campaign and finger pointing?
    Is the nod and wink about guilt to be thrown in his direction or is he too entitled to a bit of common decency?

    As you have rightly pointed nobody on this site knows the full facts. The exact details to this case are in the hands of probably a few dozen people and non (to their shame) have shared those facts with the rest of us.

  • Dec

    TAFKABO

    You have obviously missed the much publicised allegation that someone made a throat cutting gesture to subordinates directly before McCartney was killed.

    Much-publicised, never substantiated. You may or may not be aware that the man in question was the person initially assaulted in the bar leaving him with an arm injury that caused him the loss of three pints of blood. Whether he had the presence of mind at that stage to wander through the bar giving throat-slitting gestures is of course conjecture.

    Mick Hall

    As to the man in question, im absolutely certain he is well able to look after himself without having go fore’s attacking these women.

    I’m sure he is. Whether or not his relations or equally able to ‘look after themselves’ whenever they are harangued or threatened in the street by McCartney supporters is another question.

    Any doubts that the McCartney campaign has descended into a publicity junket ‘free-for-all’ were dispelled with yesterdays news that Sinead Commander is now in meetings with the British PM. Shows what doors a small scratch on your husband’s head can open for you.

  • TAFKABO

    Dec.

    I wasn’t claiming that the allegation was or wasn’t substantiated, just that it was a much publicised allegation, contrary to damn-I-Ams assertion that there was no suggestion it was a killing carried out on the orders of someone.

  • Mickhall

    Pat,

    What you write is absolutely fair and correct, in many ways it is one of the problems with media coverage and our own discussions on slugger. i e daily life is magnified on to a more public stage, this being so, one tends to either take sides or hang back for fear of making a bad situation worse, especially as one situation inevitable leads to another.

    I will give an example, slugfest posted the following on this thread,

    “1. If this IRA member was ever convicted in the Diplock courts, there’s absolutely no way he would be granted a visa.”

    This may or may not be true, as we have recently had a prime example in the media of someone having been sentenced to a long stretch of jail time in the 1970s and ending up in the USA as SF/SIS/whatever, spokesperson only a few years after he came out of jail.

    People who find themselves in the heart of this nightmare and who are totally clean must have f….d up brains on a par with the average coke head.

    Have a good Christmas Pat,

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    Agreed Mick,

    have a great Christmas yourself and all of yours as well.

  • bigwhitedove

    Jocky, re: Heat magazine
    They already have done a centre spread of the trip to America.

    SRR
    I believe criminals should be tried before a criminal court and have never believed anything else.The murder of Mr McCartney was a crime and the family deserve justice. The criminal system/law should not be flouted just because of alleged RA involvement.

    It is not affording the individual the right to a fair hearing when he is continually identified in the media as the “senior commander who gave the order” this is only something that can be verified by the people who did the deed.

    My understanding is that the US has an extradition treaty with both parts of Ireland if the story is true!!!

    I did not blame the Sisters for manipulating the media but it has happened, in a way that takes the recent pressure of the Brits

  • Cahal

    It’s not possible to just emigrate to the US. This is not the 1940s.

    It is an extremeley long drawn out process and takes several years.

    Unless he has a close relative there who is willing to sponsor his Visa (which can still take several years to obtain), he has no chance of getting any long term visa.

    Perhaps he is going on ‘an extended vacation’. If you get my drift.

  • don

    Three of the McCartney sisters have withdrawn from the campaign due to differences over the direction in which the remaining two sisters have steered the issue.

  • greg

    Several witnesses came forward and gave full statements to the police regarding incidents inside and outside the bar.

    None of the eye witnesses saw this man make any gestures or say anything to order any attack on Mr McCartney.

    The McCartneys seem to be so publicity crazy that the will say anything to try and get their faces on tv.

  • Shore Road Resident

    The McCartneys drive Shinners so crazy that they’ll say anything after they’ve been on TV.

  • Paul

    SRR, you are so right. Shinners genuinely don’t give a shit for anyone’s rights, except for members of “the Republican family”. They have demonstrated this to the entire world over the murder of Robert McCartney and the subsequent cover up. It’s not so easy now for GA and the rest of the hypocrites to pose around the world as “human rights activists”. That’s why they hate the courageous McCartney sisters. They have shone a very bright light on the hypocrisy and cant of SF, even threatening the Shinners ludicrous self image. We can see now, from this site, that their next tactic will be to try to blacken the name of the McCartney sisters. Their problem is that then everyone can see the “Republican family” for the dysfunctional group that they are.