Sinn Fein has already conceded key priniciple

Downes continued with interviews with Pat Doherty and David Liddington, the Tory shadow spokesman for Northern Ireland. Downes challenges Doherty with a question of why the deal Sinn Fein thought they had previliged IRA on the runs without making any disclosure. He notes the irony that one of the main pressure groups for justice is called An Fhirinne (the truth) “…when the one thing victims would not get out of the proposed system for OTRs is the truth. They won’t even have to appear in court, indeed they won’t even have to say anything”. And later, “There a principle here that the truth would not be revealed that was agreed to by Sinn Fein”.

  • Teardrop

    Sinn Fein sold out. Anything for the Bhoys

  • Brian

    The bill that will be enacted by the British parlaiment, pertaining to Republican Volunteers (so called OTRs) was never intended to include those within the British establishment who murdered and maimed Irish people. It is therefore unacceptable to include those who murdered on behalf of the British occupier in the six counties, at the behest of British crown forces and their orange cheerleaders. The paras who murdered 14 civilians on Bloody Sunday, the SAS filth who slaughtered the IRA Volunteers in Loughall, those who bombed Dublin and Monaghan and murdered unarmed Irish Republicans in Gibraltar operated on behalf of the occupier. They must be rooted out and brought to justice. IRA (and INLA) Volunteers who are currently deemed OTRs fall into a different category. But of course the Brits have this nauseating tendency to lump the noble republicans in with Unionist filth and professional soldiers. So here’s the scoop – we want our people back in Ireland and we want those who slaughtered innocent people on behalf of the British occupying force brought to justice. It’s also essential that SS/RUC/psno is disbanded, that MI5 are removed from the occupied zone and that the British declare their intention to withdraw from Ireland on a specified date. Anything less will be a receipe for disaster and the Brits and orangies will suffer most.

  • Crataegus

    Brian.

    “unacceptable to include those who murdered”

    Yes Brain ALL who murdered, All murderers are of equal standing. You find reprieve for the British repugnant, some of us find the whole lot repulsive. There is nothing noble in murder and barbarism be it by state or citizen.

  • Slight Return

    It seems to be beyond the capacity of most so-called Republicans to realise that the vast majority of Northern Irish people want Provo killers (and their loyalist brethren) to be brought to justice as well as state killers. All the furore over the inclusion of state perps in the OTR legislation has masked the fact that none of the victims of those covered under the bill will receive justice.

  • Santa Claus

    The deal done between Sinn Fein and the British government at Hillsborough in 2003 stated that “a qualifying offence would be any scheduled offence … committed before 10 April 1998.”

    Are Sinn Fein trying to tell us that they didn’t know “Scheduled Offences” are offences like murder, bomb making, possession of weapons and are always tried in Diplock Courts. They would have known then that “State killings in Northern Ireland are scheduled offences and that is why people like Guardsmen Fisher and Wright and Lee Clegg were tried in Diplock Courts.

    So when Sinn Fein signed up to anybody who committed any scheduled offence before 1998 being able to skip jail, they accepted state killers getting away with it – now and in the future. They accepted this in black and white at Hillsborough 2003.

    And what have they got to say? “Well you didn’t mention it at the time!” – as if the SDLP were in there negotiating with them. This is from the party that never tires of telling us how good and strong they are.

    Sinn Fein surrended the right and priniciple for truth and has been shamed in to a U-turn.

  • Kathy_C

    I see that SF was outmanueverd by the brits.

    SF now seems to be allll upset that the brits put in about british soldiers because it wasn’t part of the deal SF and the brits made back severla years ago.

    HELLO>>>>>>>>>>>>> since when have the brits honored their deals….it’s time SF stop believing everything the brits tell them…it’s time SF grows up.

  • Jocky

    Kathy_C, it appears SF weren’t out manouevered by the Brits, or even lied to, or hoodwinked.

    Seems to me they were in on it all along with the Brits and one assumes they only hoped no one would notice and they could ride it out.

    Seems like the sold out their principles and consituents down the river for their provo mates.

  • Dualta

    I think that Sinn Fein knew all along that that the British would expect to get an amnesty too. It’s only fair that all sides should get an amnesty, rather than just one.

    I also think that most people have accepted that an amnesty of sorts is necessary in order to build the peace here, but not at the expense of the victims.

    Peace is the presence of justice and the current OTR legislation is unjust to victims and the wider society.

    Those OTRs and those guilty of crimes against the people should be forgiven for what they’ve done, but the victims deserve to know who inflicted the pain on them. They deserve an explanation.

    This legislation is a serious injustice on us. Sinn Fein wouldn’t be objecting to it if it weren’t for the furore which has been created.

    The Labour government are guilty of a terrible crime against humanity in Iraq so I don’t expect anything else from them that legislation like this.

  • It certainly isn’t my impression that “most people have accepted that an amnesty of sorts is necessary”

    The otr legislation os not just precisely because it is an amnesty and any amnesty would be unjust. Not merely for “the victims”. We are all victims when justice itself is the victim!

  • willowfield

    Brian

    It is therefore unacceptable to include those who murdered on behalf of the British occupier [sic] in the six counties, at the behest of British crown forces and their orange cheerleaders.

    Surely it’s unacceptable to include any murderers? You can’t have one rule for one murderer and another for a different murderer.

    The paras who murdered 14 civilians on Bloody Sunday, the SAS filth who slaughtered the IRA Volunteers in Loughall [sic], those who bombed Dublin and Monaghan and murdered unarmed Irish Republicans in Gibraltar operated on behalf of the occupier [sic].

    The Loughgall killings were lawful. (The PIRA unit was mounting a murder attack.)

    They must be rooted out and brought to justice. IRA (and INLA) Volunteers who are currently deemed OTRs fall into a different category. But of course the Brits have this nauseating tendency to lump the noble republicans in with Unionist filth and professional soldiers. So here’s the scoop – we want our people back in Ireland and we want those who slaughtered innocent people on behalf of the British occupying force brought to justice.

    You can’t have one rule for one and another rule for others. Justice has to be applied universally.

  • JimMcCool

    This legislation would mean any RUC/PSNI/M15, PARA Trooper etc etc would be released on licence.

    This means simply that all HM Forces will be quick to sign up so they do not face a protracted process of any investigation e.g. Finucane, BS etc

  • Ringo

    This is beginning to play a bit like the McCabe killers issue in the Republic. But with Tony not being subject to the same pressure in his parties constituencies that Bertie was, it may evolve differently.

    Where ther might be common ground is SF being willing to concede – in this case they have an angle, – the security forces not getting a deal either, but they appear to have a bit of ground to make up on that.

  • Zorro

    We are all victims when justice itself is the victim!

    Point well made Berie!

  • Daisy

    Dearie me, Brian has a bit of a bee in his bonnet. Justice for the people he wants justice for only! Here’s some news for you Brian. The idea of anyone getting off with murder is repugnant to most of us, regardless of who they are. We did not want this and nor should we have to accept it. It was not part of the GFA which, we keep being told, is the only show in town.

    Let the OTRs stay in whatever hole they crawled into because they didn’t have the guts to stand up and take their sentences. And let them be joined by their fellow travellers from the military, leaving us to get on with our lives in peace.

  • Cheers Zorro!

    How have you been? I haven’t seen much from you since we had our discussion on the common ground between “loyalist” and republican terrorists.

  • Reader

    Jim McCool: This means simply that all HM Forces will be quick to sign up so they do not face a protracted process of any investigation e.g. Finucane, BS etc
    Do you think 20,000 policemen and ex-policemen want criminal records and unemployment? Do you think 50,000 soldiers and ex-soldiers want criminal records?
    How about supporting a change to the legislation so that anyone seeking this amnesty should explain the actions for which they want protection?