Metro dhíth i mBéal Feirste?

Metro de dhíth i mBéal Feirste anois, dar le Gearóid Ó Cairealláin i Lá, de bhri an dlús daonra sa mór thimpeallacht an ceathrach: “Déarfainn go bhfuil 300,000 duine sa chathair seo cois cuain, trí oiread sin nuair a chuireann tú na bruachbhailte san áireamh. Ba cheart Lios na gCearrbhach féin a áireamh mar chuid de Bhéal Feirste ó thaobh iompair de”. Agus comhghairdeas le Concubhar Ó Liatháin – an t-eagarthóir úr ar an nuachtán.

  • Henry Fitzpatrick

    It’s hardly a big issue, *but* . . . I’m willing to bet there has never been a monolingual Irish speaker who has stumbled across Slugger in cyberspace. I mention this simply because, that, if it had happened, would have been the only comparable moment to what the majority of monolingual Anglophone Slugger readers experience every time there is a post in Irish, sans translation. Is there any particular reason why, Canadian style, an English transaltion isn’t provided as well?

  • stu

    I didn’t really understand that. Would a Gealige speaker mind translating?

  • smcgiff

    Henry,

    Are you suggesting all the English Slugger blogs should be translated into Irish?

  • Henry, mostly the work involved. But also, I’d need to write more to give readers more of the gist of the original to those who don’t speak the langauge. The gist is a proposal for a Metro system for the Greater Belfast stretching out to Lisburn.

  • Henry Fitzpatrick

    Mick – many thanks for your answer: I had assumed if was the ‘more work for no money’ aspect of blogging that was holding things back here.

    smcgiff – you’ve missed the point of my post, so I’ll repeat it. If Slugger was being read by tons of Irish-only readers, then they would be excluded by the English-only postings and there would be a strong case for dual-transaltion. But as I pointed out above, you would honestly have to wonder if there has *ever* been an instance of an Irish-only reader stumbling upon Slugger in Cyberspace. And while we can doubtless agree that it’s possible, but very unlikely, it’s absolutely certain that the vast majority of Slugger’s reader are monoglot English-readers, and hence by definition excluded from the discussion when there are Irish-only posts.

  • seabhac siulach

    Ni bheidh metro riamh i mBeal Feirste mura bhfuil neamhspleachas eacnamaiochta againn sna 6 chontae…ma bhionn Airi Stait o Shasana i gcumhacht anseo nil thiocfaidh go leor airgead riamh chun feabhas a chur ar an mbonneagar…mar shampla, feach ar na gceantair eile sa Riocht Aontaithe (Albain no an Bhreatain Bheag), ta bonneagar lagfhorbarta acu chomh maith…(cen fath, mar shampla, nach bhfuil nios mo airgead a gcaitheamh ar na mboithre sa Bhreatain Bheag…nil ach motarbhealach amhain sa tir sin ar fad …ceapaim)
    Is i nDeisceart na hEireann amhain ina bhfuil an airgead le fail (34.4 billiun) chun an bonneagar a fhobhairt…
    Cen fath? Mar ta neamhspleachas eacnamaiochta (agus an feinmhuinin) acu, agus an smacht (gan cur isteach ag eachtrannaigh), mar sin, ar an airgead a thagann on gComhphobal Eorpach agus o chain.
    Mura bhfuil, fiu, an parlaimint i Stormont, curtha ar bun, agus Eireannaigh curtha i gcumhacht ar an meid beag airgead a thagann on rialtas i Londain, ta seans nios lu fos go mbeidh metro, no aon rud eile, foirgnithe riamh i mBeal Feirste…

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Hardly an inclusive topic when I come from a Protestant, British background and know little more than 3 words of Gaelic, so can’t participate in it…

  • Henry,

    1. Look at the front page of Slugger, a single Irish thread, do you have to complain about it? A simple request for a translation would be enough. IMO.

    2. Here’s a dodgy translation:

    Metro now needed in Belfast, in the opinion of Gearóid Ó Cairealláin in Lá, because of the population density in the city:
    “I suppose there’s 300,000 people in the city here habour-side(?), three times as much when you include the suburbs. It’s right to include Lisburn as part of the surrounding area of Belfast(??)”.
    And congrats to Concubhar – the new editor of Lá.

  • stu

    Do they mean Metro as in underground rail?

  • seabhac siulach

    Concerned Loyalist – no time like the present to start learning…

    Sure, didn’t the loyalists welcome Queen Victoria to Belfast/Ulster in 1900 with banners written in Gaelic…
    The troubles and a certain paramilitary grouping have made Irish (Gaelic) appear, unfortunately, to be the language of only one community in the North. This should never have been the case. After all, most planters to Ulster (from Scotland) were Gaelic speakers in the 17th century…

    Perhaps we can have some blogs in Ulster Scots…for balance, that might be interesting…

  • Henry Fitzpatrick

    Maca old son, strain yourself and read the first four fricking words of the thread: ‘It’s hardly a big issue’ – and once you’ve done that, see that high horse you’re on? Dismount. There wasn’t even the hint of a “complaint” (precisely because there was none) in what I wrote. So don’t let preemptive paranoia get the better of you when other people are merely asking questions. For all I know, you might ask them only ever to ‘prove a point’: me, I’m boring enough to do so because I want to hear some answers. Which I got on the 4th post, and thus am happy. Come join me, life’s better that way.

  • Boys, boys… keep it on topic… or at least off the personal…

  • aonghus

    Nonetheless, this must be a record.

    Only comment nr 6 of the 11 actually addresses the subject of the blog.

    Henry, although my first language is Irish, I also speak English. And German.

    Why shouldn’t Mick start of a conversation which those of us with Irish can partake in? The vast majority of blogs are in English.

    Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil Metro ciallmhar – abhus anseo i mBÁC, ná ó thuaidh. Cosnaíonn traen faoi thalamh 10 n-oiread an km le traen os cionn talún.

    Ba cheart féachaint chuige go mbeadh treanacha thar talamh ann – tá an Luas ag feidhmiú go maith anseo ó dheas.

  • Henry Fitzpatrick

    Sorry Maca, my headache was getting the better of me, and my reply to you was overly testy – but you were wrong, for whatever reason, to asusme that I was ‘complaining’. I was asking a question, and there is a difference. Which, in essence, in my reply to aonghus too. Nowhere did I say, as you suggest that Slugger *shouldn’t* start/run a thread in Irish. I merely asked, for the boring statistical reason I’ve adverted to twice already (to repeat: most of Slugger’s readers are monoglot anglophones, virtually none of Slugger’s readers will be Irish-only readers, unless anyone wants to contradict me on that score), would there be any harm in involing the Anglophone majority (by means of a dual translation/precis) on the Irish threads. And that query was answered serveal posts ago.

  • Oilbhéar Chromaill

    Is nós é – droch nós – i gcónaí go dtiontaíonn comhráití i nGaeilge go Béarla, fiú sa Ghaeltacht, mar gheall ar dea bhéasaí na nGaeilgeoirí.

    It’s a habit – a bad habit I feel – which occurs in the Gaeltacht that people holding a conversation in Irish turn to English once an English speaker comes on the scene. It’s good manners certainly but does little for the language.

    The point about having a conversation in Irish is to allow people to speak in Irish – or to comment in Irish – it’s not exclusionary. Anybody can learn Irish. You don’t have to be Irish to speak Irish – you can be British or Japanese or whatever. I met a Japanese Irish speaker while attending the Oireachtas in Cork at the weekend.

    If every Irish conversation were to convert to English because of English speakers, that would be the end of the Irish language. People speak Irish because they want to, not because they have to. If you don’t want to that’s fair enough. If you want to have a debate with Irish speakers about a metro in Belfast then don’t be surprised if they continue speaking in Irish. Slugger, I’m sure, could accomodate an English language debate on the topic. Or perhaps the entire point of the intervention of some people here was just to get us to comment as Béarla.
    Sin é.

  • Mike

    SS –

    “After all, most planters to Ulster (from Scotland) were Gaelic speakers in the 17th century…”

    I don’t think that would be right. Would the great majority of them not have been Scots (or English if you prefer) speakers, being Lowlanders?

  • Henry, fine.

  • seabhac siulach

    Mike

    “I don’t think that would be right. Would the great majority of them not have been Scots (or English if you prefer) speakers, being Lowlanders?”

    From the little I know of the subject (I don’t claim to be an expert), most of the Scottish people who came to Ireland in the 17th Century were from the area around Glasgow (Galloway?), which was still Gaelic speaking at that time. Of course, not all planters were Scottish, some were English and some undoubtedly came from Lallans speaking areas…
    The identification of loyalism with Lallans is a bit mysterious in this context…why not Scottish Gaelic, to be more authentic? Or is it that loyalists still do not forgive the desperate dis-loyalty of the clans at Culloden in 1746?!

  • stu

    To drag this back on topic, I ask again- are they advocating a Metro a la London/Paris/Newcastle/Glasgow?

  • Mick Fealty

    Stu, yes.

    OC, I think the problem is that we don’t post enough in Irish. I hopeful we at last have a gael blogger on the launch pad, so I hope we can make it such a regular feature that it won’t attract the same novelty attention as it does just now.

    But I agree re Gaeltacht (esp Donegal) politness. It’s important for the language just to be if it’s going to prosper.

  • foreign correspondent

    Bheadh se go hiontach da mbeadh metro ag Beal Feirste, agus ag BAC. Ta cathracha na hEireann i bhfad rospleach ar chairr. Ta metro cheana ag aiteanna nios lu na Beal Feirste – Rennes na Briotaine, mar shampla, a bhfuil daonra de thart ar 250,000 aige.

  • Aonghus

    Tá ré na metro thart – tá sé ró dheacair, agus ró chostasach iad a thógaint i gcathracha anois.

    Ach is féidir na tramanna a thabhairt thar nais, agus na cairr a dhibirt as lár na cathracha.

    Feidhmíonn tram go maith nuair atá lána da chuid fhéin aige.

    Henry,
    I take your point.

    However, speaking for myself – it is at least twice the work for me to translate a post I’ve written in Irish to english. And I’m too damn lazy.

  • PaddyReilly

    Caithfidh mé a admháil: is fear ón Deisceart mé is ní raibh mé i mBéal Feirsde le mo bheo. Ach bhí mé sa choláisde le Sylvia Paisley (atá anois i n-a bantiarna agus MP) agus Éamonn Ó Catháin (celebrity chef) áit éigin sa t-saol. Lá amháin d’fhiafruigh mé ó Éamonn: a Éamuinn, a chara, an bhfuil Metró agaibh i mBéal Feirsde i n-aon chor?

    Ar seisean, a bhfuil tú as do mheabhair? Dá mbéadh Metró againn, nach mbeadh buama ann gach seachtain? Dá n-osclódh siad Metró, cad a dhéanfadh na Sealadaigh ach gáirí? Rud éigin eile chun pléascadh do bheadh acu, ar ndóigh.

    Do b’fhíor an rud adúirt tú, a Éamuinn, is ní dheinfhidh Gaeil Éireann dearmad ariamh ort. Measann daoine go mbíonn na trioblóidí thart, ach cá bhfios dúinn nach mbeadh a leithéid arís ann san am atá le teacht. Do b’fhearra dhaoibh bheith gan Metró. Faighigí an bus.

  • crc

    foreign correspondent : Ta metro cheana ag aiteanna nios lu na Beal Feirste – Rennes na Briotaine, mar shampla, a bhfuil daonra de thart ar 250,000 aige.
    ——–

    Is í Rennes an cathair le metro nios lú sa domhain, agus níl ach líne amhain ansin (VAL*).

    Sílim níl metro de dhíth ar Béal Féirste. Tá gréasán iarnród maith an anois, agus beidh líne eile ró chostasach.

    *VAL = Véhicule Automatique Legère (Gan Tiománaí)

  • foreign correspondent

    B´fheidir narbh fheidir metro a thogail i mBF le linn na dtriobloidi, ach taimid ag suil leis go bhfuil an re sin thart agus ni feidir Beal Feirste a fhorbairt as seo go deireadh an cheid ag smaoineamh mar sin (dar liom)
    An fhadhb ata ann in Eirinn na go sileann a lan daoine nach bhfuil tabhacht le hinfrastruchtur do choras taistil poibli. Sin an fath a bhfuil BAC ina phraiseach o thaobh taistil de; nil siad ag tabhairt aghaidhe ar choras comhthaite poibli don phriomhchathair anois, 30-40 bliain mall.
    Sin rud amhain, ar a laghad, ata i gcomhar ag BF agus BAC 🙂

  • foreign correspondent

    Nil siad ACH ag tabhairt aghaidhe ar choras comhthaite TAISTIL phoibli anois, a bhi me ag iarraidh a ra…

  • westchick

    Níl metro de dhith anseo, ta Beal Feirste ro bheag.
    An dtig linn Metro a bheith againn, nach bhfuil an talamh i mBeal Feirste ro bhog?

  • PaddyReilly

    Más féidir leo iarnród a thógaint os cionn talún, do bheadh sin míle uair níos fearr. Tá dainséar, tá costas, tá deacrachtaí eile a baint le iarnród faoi thalamh. Tá Metró i Londain agus i bPáras agus fáth leis: cathracha iad agus drong mhór daoine iontu, agus costas talún an-ard. Ach Béal Feirde? Bheadh sé níos saoire tithe a cheannacht agus a leagadh agus iarnród a chur i n-a n-áit.

    Ar fhaca sibh an Metró sa mBruiséal ariamh? Traen faoi thalamh atá i Metró Phárais agus Tiúb Londain, ach séard atá ann sa mBruiséal ach tram faoi thalamh. Is dócha go bhfuil Metró Rennes cosúil leis sin.

  • aonghus

    Is beag áit in Iarthar na hEorpa atá ag togail metró nua, de bharr an chostais. Tógadh na traenacha faoi thalamh i bhfad ó shin don chuid is mó.

    Ba cheart tramanna a thabhairt thar nais – ar raibh siad ag Béal Feirste tráth?

  • stu

    I only know some very basic Gaelige, so I’m going with the gist of this.

    I think given Belfast’s shaky foundations an underground Metro is doomed to failure. Besides, it’s just one more place for the wee scrotes to try and jump you.

    Agreed on the Gaeltacht- If you’re having a conversation in Gaelige, carry on doing so unless someone talks to you directly in English. I think that’s both sensible and polite, on everyone’s side.

  • Shore Road Resident

    Now that Concubhar is editor of La, will he continue that paper’s policy of demanding British government funding?

  • Metacom

    Is fear Bostunach me. Is smaoineamh maith Metro i mBeal Feirste. I rith cuid bliain deag seo caite, thug an Big Dig nios mo na $13 billion go dti an catharch seo agus fostaithe go milte duine. Airegead agus fostaithe ar na duine agus an bille go dti na saibreas na Saorstat (via an EU). Faigh do sluasaid agus tosaigh ag baint!

    Go mo leithsceal ar mo cuid drochGaeilge. Nil me liofa sa caint leiprachanach!

  • Metacom

    Is fear Bostunach me. Is smaoineamh maith Metro i mBeal Feirste. I rith cuid bliain deag seo caite, thug an Big Dig nios mo na $13 billion go dti an catharch seo agus fostaithe go milte duine. Airegead agus fostaithe ar na duine agus an bille go dti na saibreas na Saorstat (via an EU). Faigh do sluasaid agus tosaigh ag baint!

    Go mo leithsceal ar mo cuid drochGaeilge. Nil me liofa sa caint leiprachanach!

  • Metacom

    Is fear Bostunach me. Is smaoineamh maith Metro i mBeal Feirste. I rith cuig bliain deag seo caite, thug an Big Dig nios mo na $13 billion go dti an catharch seo agus fostaithe go milte duine. Airegead agus fostaithe ar na duine Feirsteach agus an bille go dti na saibreas na Saorstat (via an EU). Faigh do sluasaid agus tosaigh ag baint!

    Go mo leithsceal ar mo cuid drochGaeilge. Nil me liofa sa caint leiprachanach!

  • Metacom

    Sorry for the multiple posts. I think I’ve got the hang of it now.

  • Concerned Loyalist

    Regarding topics printed in Gaelic…
    Can anyone give me statistics as to the percentage of the approximately 1.7 million citizens who live in Northern Ireland, who speak Gaelic as their first language?

    Also, can anyone enlighten me as to the percentage that can speak Gaelic fluently, whether first language or otherwise?

    Slugger’s raison d’etre is “Northern Ireland politics and culture”, and I just wonder if topics in Gaelic is appropriate and fits in with this, when it is not a language that is used in everyday Norn Iron life…