Will the Welsh show respect – and will we..?

OVER at Our Wee Country, thoughts are turning to the national anthems that will be played tomorrow at Windsor Park. Could the Welsh booing of ‘God Save the Queen’ when NI played them in Cardiff lead to an especially loud ‘No Surrender’ from fans? Or will anyone take up this NI fan’s suggestion that the unofficial addendum to ‘the Queen’ be replaced simply with ‘Northern Ireland’? One Welsh fan on the board suggested the booing at the Millennium stadium was motivated by anti-English sentiment, but will our fans see it that way? All these and other questions to be answered later…

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177 thoughts on “Will the Welsh show respect – and will we..?

  1. Bill,

    You obviously cared enough to read it and post.

    GSTQ was roundly booed by the Welsh supporters when we visited Cardiff last year.

    I expect that the magnificant anthem of Wales will be booed in return by some of the home support tomorrow…in what those perpetrating it will classify as “retaliation”.

    It is appalling that ANY visting National Anthem is booed, but unfortunately it is inevitable tomorrow.

    Regarding replacing the neandethal chants of “No Surrender” by some during GSTQ, it is not an answer to drown it out with chants of “Northern Ireland”.

    This also bastardises the anthem, which should be fully respected.

    If a couple of hundred souls are so “loyal” to Her Majesty that they choose to bastardise GSTQ, I think they need to think again about their definition of respect, and ponder over the irony of their actions.

    PS: Big John Hartson is sure to get pelters tomorrow…with his elbows everywhere, pushing and shoving, aggressive, “no nonsense” style of play etc.

    Que the detractors (many of them Celtic fans) with cries of “rampant sectarianism” etc.

    They should maybe do a little homework before they jump the gun in their insatiable desire to lambast everything “Norn Iron”.

  2. Belfast Gonzo,

    With respect, Our Wee Country itself promotes bigotry. Get a load of this article on the front page of their site:

    World Cup 2002.

    I don’t know if Slugger wants to associate itself with such a hate-filled anti-Irish site.

  3. Ah UI, you still haven’t found anything better to do than whinge about Owen’s article? Does this have any relevance to the question about the national anthems? Nah, but don’t let that stop you having your traditional whinge.

  4. UI doesn’t do satire.

    “such a hate-filled anti-Irish site.”

    One article, one writer, 2000 members…many Irish.

    Nor, apparantly, does he do irony.

  5. Yeah I love this bit of ‘satire’ (ahem):

    “Roy Keane’s departure from the Republic’s camp was ascribed partly to a disagreement with his manager and partly to “personal problems”. In all fairness being a psychotic gipsy can be a serious problem for a person. Roy was also probably concerned about his family. I’m told it’s been a tough few years for itinerant driveway tarmaccers

    Or how about this great bit of satire:

    Of course the most shocking thing about the Keane affair was the reaction of those fun-loving scamps, the beggar supporters. The vast majority…Not entirely surprising that they supported an abusive and violent scumbag when you consider we’re talking about a country where dishonesty and casual criminality are often viewed as endearing national quirks.

    Wow the author of this article could have given the late great Ronnie Barker a run for his money! (now that’s satire)

  6. Hopefully the Welsh show Norn Ireland some respect and beat them by a tiny 3 or 4 nil, with Hartson scoring 3 and Healy an OG to round off a jolly good day 🙂

  7. Victor 1
    Bitter, bitter , bitter, bet you’re also a Man City supporter 🙂

    I can’t believe I was born just down the road from you..;)

  8. Victor 1
    Bitter, bitter, bitter, bet you’re also a Man City supporter 🙂

    I can’t believe I was born just down the road from you..;)

  9. Paul
    So I’m bitter because I don’t support Norn Ireland, surely I’m entitled to give my support to whomsoever I wish it’s free choice is it not! I’m don’t support Glentoran either suppose that makes me bitter also 😉

  10. I’m undecided who gets my support tomorrow, good luck to both teams I suppose. My attention will be on another match anyway.

  11. One Welsh fan on the board suggested the booing at the Millennium stadium was motivated by anti-English sentiment, but will our fans see it that way?

    There’s at least one Welsh blogger
    who takes the opposite view:

    what Rhodri and his British Nationalist friends do not understand is that the Welsh were NOT booing England’s National Anthem, they booed the ‘British’ national anthem, as they did against Northern Ireland in an earlier match at the millenium stadium.

  12. I’m more interested in events in Nicosia tomorrow evening

    Over ten thousand Irish fans are travelling over for the game.

    Home from home.

  13. Let’s face it, Britain could change the national anthem to Come On Eileen and it would still be excepted unreservedly by NI football fans. National anthems should be scrapped, period.

  14. Unfortunately, the Irish have always shown their comtempt for the people of Wales. Think of the song “The Sea Around Us” for example. Perhaps that criticism was well founded. The Welsh seemingly have always bowed down to their English masters. Wouldn’t you agree?

    As to Welsh literature and poetry; forget it. Dylan Thomas wrote two or three decent pieces of poetry and prose and then drank himself to death in an Irish American bar in New York city called “The White Horse” while in the company of the Clancy Brothers. I kid you not.

  15. Why do NI use GSTQ?

    I thought even the Sassenachs were trying to replace it with “Jerusalem”?

    Like, it’s a bit of a dirge. Why not have something that demonstrates a bit of local id? National anthems are generally shite anyway. Exceptions: La Marseillaise and maybe Advance Australia Fair?

    Couldn’t we lead the way with a rethink? Dawson Baillie doing a rendition of Coney Island?

    Anyway – stand up for the Ulstermen. I really hope they do the business (without burning the frickin’ town down afterwards).

  16. Will the Welsh show respect for the English national anthem being sang by Irish descendents of Scottish settlers?

    Good question.

  17. “Why not have something that demonstrates a bit of local id?”

    That’s a problem because there are 2 ids.

  18. I know. Let’s make the “Go Walking” jingle from a few years ago the new NI National Anthem. The message is uncontentious. We all know the words. And its so insanely catchy it’s like the mind virus equivalent of the Ebola Zaire bug.

  19. I honestly don’t know whether to laugh or cry..
    This is so typical of the NI mindset. “we want respect”
    It is a bloody football game..The opposing team/supporters will rarely show respect. It doesn’t matter if you play for Brazil, Germany, France or England.
    It is the way it is! Your opponents supporters will boo you.
    Believe it or believe it not, the NI football team isn’t precious, they are a football team like any other team. Prepared to be boo’d
    Peoples attitude’s in this country leave me stunned sometimes because of their pettiness

  20. The Scottish sing Flower of Scotland to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity.

    The Welsh sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity.

    Northern Ireland sing god save the queen.Why?

  21. ´´The Scottish sing Flower of Scotland to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity. The Welsh sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau to express their pride in their country and as a distinct expression of their identity.
    Northern Ireland sing god save the queen.Why?´´

    Dwi´n meddwl ac´hos bod y Cymry mwy deallus na pobl Gogledd Iwerddon, dyma pam.
    Dwi´n gobeithio bod Cymru yn mynd i innill y gem.

  22. “Northern Ireland sing god save the queen.Why?”

    Walter,

    Because it is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, I presume.

    Recommendations have been made to the IFA to change to a uniquely, Northern Irish sporting anthem…something I support wholeheartedly.

    Right…never mind the anthems, I’m off to the game – here’s hoping for “three in a row”.

  23. Great to see norn iron fans with all their red hands of ulster showing their true colours booing the welsh national anthem!!!
    And didn`t they love singing their “national anthem”.
    Is it any wonder windsor park is a cold house for Catholics.

  24. I don’t think the Welsh fans kew what hit em. They music remember they’re in the World capital of whataboutary.

  25. 0-2 to Wales. That looks to take care of your double Henry. The booing of Hartson and the Welsh anthem is not doing the team the fans or the IFA any favours.

    Capaldi yellowed! Penalty.

  26. The treatment of Hartson by the north’s fans (and given the volume it is not a small number) shows no matter how much the IFA and fans lie about it Windsor Park and the north’s fans are still as sectarian as ever.

    I’m enjoying watching them getting beaten but nowhere near as much as Hartson.

    Slap it up the bigots John.

  27. Mick,

    This kind.

    [I]“The IFA respects and values diversity. We endeavour to provide an environment which values and enables the full involvement of all people, in all aspects and at every level of Northern Ireland football, regardless of perceived cultural identity, political affiliation or religious beliefs. We believe in the philosophy of Football For All”.
    “By 2007 Football will be the most popular and inclusive sport in Northern Ireland, in which all are encouraged to participate and realize their full potential, led by a dynamic and outward looking governing body with successful International teams”. [/I]

    None of this has happened. It was and is a sectarian environment. The fans prove it again today. The IFA’s response as always will not deal with their sectarian supporters.

  28. What a game!!!

    “The treatment of Hartson by the north’s fans (and given the volume it is not a small number) shows no matter how much the IFA and fans lie about it Windsor Park and the north’s fans are still as sectarian as ever.”

    I think you’ll find that the so called Irish fans in Landsdowne Road have given a similar reception to Rangers players for many years. I fully accept that my comment is whataboutery, but condemnation must go to anyone to does this kind of thing.

  29. 2-3 Giggs! Curses!

    Hartson is a violent thug, masquerading as a professional football player. He’s given a hard time because of his style everywhere he plays(the English fans gave him a particularly bad reception).

  30. Maybe winsdor park should be renamed the theatre of sectarian hate!

    And isn`t it funny that the NI bbc commentators never see or hear anything?

  31. Today we witnessed the true colours of NI ‘fans’. Booing an anthem? They’re a disgrace. And the treatment Hartson suffered for being a Celtic player highlights the stinking hypocrisy of NI supporters who berated some Irish fans for booing Rangers players.

    Today, it wasn’t just some NI fans booing, it was practically the whole fanbase!

    Inclusive? My arse they are.

  32. Before anyone starts to assess thsi game based onm politics and not the game (because somepeople are pathetically small minded on this island) i watched it and NI actually must be going the right way. From previous results when they went behind they would have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down but somehow they dont seem to let things go so easily now. Thats a very good sign although they are clearly not a great side in the big scheme of things.

  33. Before anyone starts to assess this game based on politics and not the game itself(because some people are pathetically small minded on this island) I watched it and NI actually are going the right way. From previous results when they went behind they would have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down but somehow they dont seem to let things go so easily now. Thats a very good sign although they are clearly not a great side in the big scheme of things.

  34. Before anyone starts to assess this game based on politics and not the game itself(because some people are pathetically small minded on this island) I watched it and NI actually are going the right way. From previous results when they went behind they would have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down but somehow they dont seem to let things go so easily now. Thats a very good sign although they are clearly not a great side in the big scheme of things.

  35. Disapointed about the result and do not approve of booing the Welsh anthem even if the Welsh booed QSTQ. Boo those fans not the anthem.

  36. How can the atmosphere be inclusive when a large proportion of the crowd sing ‘rule britannia’

    Around 20 minutes into the first half the stadium erupted with a rousing rendition.

    Is ‘rule britannia’ part of the new and improved atmosphere ?

  37. Some cracking football in the second half. Without a doubt they’ve turned a big 20 year corner. Nice free kick from Giggs.

    Crat, surely that’s an aspirational statement? Hard to peg it for a lie.

  38. I see while some of us have been at the match the blinkered have come out to play.

    Green Giant

    “booing the welsh national anthem!!!…a cold house for Catholics”

    How is booing the welsh anthem sectarian?
    What has the Welsh anthem got to do with Catholics in NI or Nationalists in NI?

    Someone Welsh being offended I can understand but some from NI claiming it shows sectarianism is a desparate scrapping of the barrel to justify an increasingly untenable position.

    I didn’t boo the anthem, respect should have been shown but then so should the Welsh fans at the Cardiff game.

    “their red hands of ulster showing their true colours”

    The Red Hand of Ulster is the oldest symbol on the island of ireland. How is displaying it make a cold house? Tyrone GAA matches mustn’t have a Catholic about the place, all those red hands they must be a big bunch of anti-Catholic bigots.

    “The treatment of Hartson by the north’s fans”

    Rooney got booed at the last game. Beckham got booed at the last game.

    Today when all the Welsh names were called out they were booed. They were booed as they came on the pitch. Earnshaw got booed and chanted at as a cheat. Giggs got booed and chanted at when he took corners. The goalkeeper was jeered (called a fat bastard) everytime he took a goal kick (like every other keeper who comes to Windsor park). Hartson got booed and chants of fat bastard and who ate all the pies. The Dutch referee and the linesman in front of the North Stand got booed.

    This was a grudge match after the robbery of the game at the Millenium stadium and the behaviour of the Welsh fans before and at the game (the unsuccessful violent attack by the Cardiff Soul Crew on two pubs before the match and the booing of the anthem at the match). The bad blood had feck all to do with sectarianism.

    You cheer your own team and you jeer your opponents and the officials (when they make questionable decisions and it wouldn’t be football if all the decisions against your team weren’t thought questionable or wrong) – its called going to a football match.

    No sectarian chants or name-calling were made at ANY player.

    “Good luck to our celtic brothers Wales, from all your friends in West Belfast.”

    Hmmmmm and that doesn’t show a warped mindset .

  39. “Today when all the Welsh names were called out they were booed. They were booed as they came on the pitch. Earnshaw got booed and chanted at as a cheat. Giggs got booed and chanted at when he took corners. The goalkeeper was jeered (called a fat bastard) everytime he took a goal kick (like every other keeper who comes to Windsor park). Hartson got booed and chants of fat bastard and who ate all the pies. The Dutch referee and the linesman in front of the North Stand got booed.

    That’s a lot of booing and foul language. You guys should chill out and concentrate on cheering your own side instead.

    Maybe catch a GAA game to see how to behave yourselves at a spoting event.

  40. Ot rather a sporting event.

    On second thoughts don’t. You’ll pick up bad habits like giving your own players serious abuse if they do the slightest thing wrong.

  41. United Irelander

    When I try to put a face to the prick that makes the slap deserving posts that you do Barry McElduff springs to mind. Is it you ?

    I bet at school you were a tell tale – hopping on one leg shouting teacher teacher those bad boys are annoying me.

    You really are a prick in the truest sense of that insult – do your friends ever tell you so.

    You are also a liability in the argument for a United Ireland – Infact I am sure you would put some nationalists off.

    I am sorry but I never play man not ball but you really bring the worst out in a person.

    I was at the match.
    The Welsh National Anthem was booed by a minority in the West Stand who are of course a minority in the ground.
    Some of them just couldn’t help themselves and it was all about retaliation for the widespread booing of GSTQ in Cardiff.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right but some of the NI fans aren’t as forgiving as the rest of us.
    I have been to dozens of matches at Windsor and not once I have heard anything but silence and then applause at the visiting teams anthem.

    ie this action had history and context and should be seen as a one off.

    Regarding Hartson – grow up – it is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team. Rooney got the same treatment against England and Giggs got some today. They are professional footballers and are supposed to be able to take it.

    Stop being such a cry baby.

  42. Rule Britannia certainly ruled today at Windsor Park.

    Jakie Fullerton said “there are plenty of Rangers fans in the ground today”

  43. Rule Britannia certainly ruled today at Windsor Park.

    Jakie Fullerton said “there are plenty of Rangers fans in the ground today”

  44. Hard luck to the North, they did well to get back into it, shows good spirit … but i’m a Giggs fan so happy to see him putting in a great game and getting on the score sheet.

    What’s with all the booing? I don’t get that, what’s the point? Not very sporting is it? (though I don’t see how it’s sectarian, that’s nonsense)

    I can understand Hartson being booed though, the man’s a thug IMHO

  45. Rule Britannia ?

    I will give £20 to your chosen charity if you can tell me the time this was song and I will confirm it on video.

    I was there and I missed it ?

    They sang the “bomber harris song” _(made popular at former meetings with Germany) etc and stand up for the Ulstermen but I did not hear Rule Britannia. None of these are sectarian or anti Irish

    Therefore those who say it was sang please advise when

  46. “What’s with all the booing? I don’t get that, what’s the point? Not very sporting is it? (though I don’t see how it’s sectarian, that’s nonsense)”

    Maca,

    Not very sporting( although,apparently it’s quite common at football games;)) but the fact that it’s N.Ireland fans is enough to get the bigots on their high horses again. We should allow them a bit of leeway, I suppose, the aftermath of the England game last month must have been agony for them.

    UI/davey/brian et al

    Did you actually watch the game?
    If so why?
    You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?
    I’ve got visions of you all sitting in front of your telly with your notebooks and tape recorders, listening for every cheep coming from the crowd, just dying to report to the world the latest crime committed at the Cauldron of Sectarianism.

    Get yourselves a life.
    Watch your own team.
    Be a bit more critical sometimes of their behaviour, before you judge that of others.

  47. John east belfast, you must have some hearing and sight. You heard more than all of us who witnessed this sectarian farce on the TV!Maybe the bad biased BBC doctored the sound, added chorus`s, falsified the images!!!!

    Get real The Theatre of Sectarianism, sorry winsdor park truely showed norn fans for all the world to see, petty minded bigots.

  48. Green Giant,
    John asked you when it was sung. Any answers?

    I’ll also repeat my earlier question especially for you.

    “Did you actually watch the game?
    If so why?
    You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?”

  49. Green Giant,
    John asked you when it was sung. Any answers?

    I’ll also repeat my earlier question especially for you.

    “Did you actually watch the game?
    If so why?
    You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?”

  50. Green Giant,
    John asked you when it was sung. Any answers?

    I’ll also repeat my earlier question especially for you.

    “Did you actually watch the game?
    If so why?
    You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?”

    “The Theatre of Sectarianism”- I believe the accepted title now amongst the begrudgers and bigots is “Cauldron of Sectarianism”. Try and keep up.

  51. John East Belfast

    “When I try to put a face to the prick that makes the slap deserving posts that you do Barry McElduff springs to mind. Is it you ?”

    LOL. Here come the ad hominem attacks! You NI supporters need lessons in respect!

    “I bet at school you were a tell tale – hopping on one leg shouting teacher teacher those bad boys are annoying me.”

    I was pretty quiet in school. No nasty chants from me or anything…

    “You really are a prick in the truest sense of that insult – do your friends ever tell you so.”

    Charming language, John. You’re a credit to your fanbase. It’s language like this which drags Slugger down. Shame on you.

    “You are also a liability in the argument for a United Ireland – Infact I am sure you would put some nationalists off.”

    Really? Why’s that?

    “I am sorry but I never play man not ball but you really bring the worst out in a person.”

    Yeah the truth can be hurtful sometimes, eh?

    “this action had history and context and should be seen as a one off.”

    LOL!

    “Regarding Hartson – grow up – it is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team.”

    It’s the job of the fans to harass a representative of a team associated with Irishness and Catholicism?

    “Stop being such a cry baby.”

    LOL. Here’s some advice John. Firstly, cut out the ad hominem attacks. Secondly, acknowledge when your supporters have let themselves down by behaving like a bunch of animals, and thirdly, stop making excuses for bigotry.

    You must do better!

  52. GG,

    As I’ve said endlessly in the past,; civility is the only admission fee for posting on Slugger.

    You and I may have seen the broadcast pictures and heard the sound. John was there. Please have the courtesy to let him tell it as he saw it without turning the whole affair into a shouting match.

    Mick

  53. Paul

    “UI/davey/brian et al

    “Did you actually watch the game?”

    Yes.

    “If so why?”

    I’m a football fan. I’ll watch any football match.

    “You obviously hate everything to do with the Northern Ireland team and their supporters, why put yourselves through the torture?”

    You’re obviously a poor judge of character.

    “I’ve got visions of you all sitting in front of your telly with your notebooks and tape recorders, listening for every cheep coming from the crowd, just dying to report to the world the latest crime committed at the Cauldron of Sectarianism.”

    Picture me shaking my head in disgust as the Welsh anthem was booed and John Hartson was harassed and you’ll be getting closer…

    “Get yourselves a life.”

    I have one thanks.

    “Watch your own team.”

    LOL! I do, but can I not watch other teams as well?

    “Be a bit more critical sometimes of their behaviour, before you judge that of others.”

    If one day my team’s suporters boo the Welsh anthem, (hopefully it never happens) you’ll hear me condemn it.

    Time to open your eyes and ears to the disgraceful bigots within your fanbase Paul. If you don’t, the problem won’t go away.

    Your supporters let all decent football fans down today with their hate-filled jeers. Shame on them all.

  54. If you want to hear the singing of the rousing rendition of ‘rule britannia’ fast forward your video to the 21st minute(ish), the boys were in great voice.

    “Sport for all- your avin’ a laugh”…

  55. joe,

    Some of these NI fans just don’t want to know. They turn a blind eye to the bigotry on show and if you speak out about it you’re branded a ‘detractor’ or a ‘begrudger’.

    They have alot to learn about being tolerant.

  56. I watched the match on BBC Wales today, one of the commentators stated that he had never heard such disrespect given to a national anthem in all his years of commentating, he did mention that a section of the crowd had booed god save the queen at the Millenium stadium during the first game, but had never known, basically, a full stadium shout and boo during the playing of any anthem. He also mentioned that the crowd then started singing to drown out the remainder of the anthem.

    He said football doesn’t need this kind of ‘so called supporter’

  57. Do Northern Ireland fans think they are British?
    If they do, why the disgraceful scenes during the Welsh national anthem – don’t they realise the match was being watched across Britain.
    Another own goal before a ball had been kicked – when will these racist bigots ever learn?
    They have lost the support of Wales to bring back the British championship – just right too!

  58. crim,
    Relevance of your article to the Northern Ireland international team?

    UI,
    As you well know, I’ve had no problem in criticising “my side”, be it political or football when I’ve felt it warranted it.

    However, in the vast majority of cases the vitriol which is thrown towards the team and its supporters is not generated by a hatred of sectarianism but by a hatred of everything to do with Northern Ireland as a separate entity.

    Welsh anthem was booed-shouldn’t have happened, but it wasn’t generated by sectarianism. John Hartson got a hard time, as I said before, he’s a thug and gets stick everywhere he played. He probably would have got a better reception in Cyprus judging by the vast number of Celtic shirts on show. Remind me again, why do the “greatest supporters in the world” feel the need to wear that particular Scottish club’s rather than their own team’s shirts?

    Unlike certain other sporting bodies in Ireland, at least the IFA has realised there is a problem and has made attempts to alleviate the situation. Also have a look on the OWC board tonight and you’ll see that decent fans are castigating the morons within our fan base. In time, hopefully sooner rather than later, both the IFA and the fans will completely remove any traces of sectarianism which still remain. But if and when that day comes,I still don’t think it’ll be enough for the likes of yourself, Green Giant, Crim and Wiliam.

    Now if you excuse me, I’m off to Vienna for Wed night’s game and I have to get my sash dusted and
    bowler polished 😉 Don’t worry,I’ll send you a postcard right from the middle of the hatefest!

  59. Paul

    “However, in the vast majority of cases the vitriol which is thrown towards the team and its supporters is not generated by a hatred of sectarianism but by a hatred of everything to do with Northern Ireland as a separate entity.”

    That’s the old excuse. There will be much discontent amongst Welsh supporters tonight towards the NI fans and it has nothing to do with politics.

    “Welsh anthem was booed-shouldn’t have happened, but it wasn’t generated by sectarianism.”

    It was an anti-Welsh gesture.

    “John Hartson got a hard time, as I said before, he’s a thug and gets stick everywhere he played.

    He was VOCIFEROUSLY booed tonight. Why? Because he plays for Celtic.

    “He probably would have got a better reception in Cyprus judging by the vast number of Celtic shirts on show.”

    Probably wouldn’t have been booed, no. I thought our fans were great in Cyprus. Respected the opposing team’s anthem and everything. No nasty chants. Great job.

    “Remind me again, why do the “greatest supporters in the world” feel the need to wear that particular Scottish club’s rather than their own team’s shirts?”

    If you mean why do ROI fans, whose team play in green, wear Celtic shirts who also play in green, I’m guessing it has to do with the fact that well…both teams play in green. That’s my best guess. If you have another theory I’d like to hear it.

    “Unlike certain other sporting bodies in Ireland, at least the IFA has realised there is a problem and has made attempts to alleviate the situation.”

    What attempts would they be? And on the basis of tonight’s display by NI fans, has sectarianism been ‘given the boot’ do you think?

    “Also have a look on the OWC board tonight and you’ll see that decent fans are castigating the morons within our fan base.”

    I’m not a big fan of that site as I’m sure you know.

    “In time, hopefully sooner rather than later, both the IFA and the fans will completely remove any traces of sectarianism which still remain. But if and when that day comes,I still don’t think it’ll be enough for the likes of yourself, Green Giant, Crim and Wiliam.”

    If the NI team reaches out to nationalists, in the way the NI state has reached out to nationalists in recent years, it will be quite enough for me and I’m sure many others.

    “Now if you excuse me, I’m off to Vienna for Wed night’s game and I have to get my sash dusted and
    bowler polished 😉 Don’t worry,I’ll send you a postcard right from the middle of the hatefest!”

    Careful about sending a postcard to Ireland, you may upset a nasty element of the NI fanbase. 😉

  60. How does the singing of Rule britannia create an all inclusive atmosphere at windsor park ?

    The majority of supporters were happy to sing the song today.

    So Catholics are welcome to attend northern ireland games as long as they sing god save the queen (with ‘no surrender’ add on), Join in to ‘rule britannia’, sing to another wee rendition of gstq and boo a player from the opposing team who happens to play for Celtic.

    Sure they could have hitched a lift to the match on the all inclusive open decked bus with the hugh union jack drapped over the side !!

  61. JEB,

    “Regarding Hartson – grow up – it is the job of the fans to offset and piss off the star players on the opposing team.”

    I thought it was the job of the fans to SUPPORT their team, hence the tag of SUPPORTERS.
    But then it was norn iron ‘supporters’ with a good loyalist base and long tradition of negativism.

  62. “The Red Hand of Ulster is the oldest symbol on the island of ireland. How is displaying it make a cold house? Tyrone GAA matches mustn’t have a Catholic about the place, all those red hands they must be a big bunch of anti-Catholic bigots.”

    Maybe because the flags flown tend to include a hell of a lot of the former (as it is no longer official) Northern Ireland flag of the Old Stormont Unionist regime i.e. 6 sided star for the 6 counties with a Crown on top, to which Northern Nationalists do not feel loyalty as they want NI to be part of the Republic of Ireland. Also, songs like “The Sash” and “Rule Brittania” and “God Save the Queen” obviously are going to turn off 41% of the NI population. So the remark about Windsor Park being a Cold House for Catholics is entirely valid.

  63. Hard luck to the north and their fans following a thrilling match.

    Though never a supporter of the northern team, I believe it would be churlish to not accept the efforts made by the IFA to eradicate the worst excesses of sectarianism within Windsor Park.

    Today I actually sat down to watch a northern Ireland game for the first time in many, many years. I watched an excellent football match- not in terms of skill but rather excitement- which resulted in five goals, played in front of enthusiastic fans.

    Fair play to the IFA for tackling sectarianism. They have clearly some work still to do to take the political element out of the support base- as the singing of Rule Britannia and cries of No surrender illustrate- but, again, I must say I truly believe the vast majority of fans were only there to have a good time at a sporting event.

    On the booing of Hartson, I can only say that it disappointed but didn’t surprise me. AND I will state that, having been at matches in Lansdowne when Rangers players were booed -albeit by a much smaller element than witnessed today- it is equally repugnant in Dublin as in Belfast.

    Now, that said, let me say why the IFA campaign as intimated by their President, Jim Boyce, is destined to fail.

    Following the team’s stunning victory over England, we witnessed an unprecedented effort by Boyce and others through the media to call on nationalists to throw their wholehearted support behind the team. In a memorable interview, Boyce stated with not a little amount of frustration on UTV that “anyone born in northern Ireland should be supporting the team.”

    This type of statement was reminiscent of an interview conducted with a senior IFA official, David Bowen, several years ago when he criticised the “ease with which people born in the north could get Irish passports.”

    Sooner or later we are all going to have to accept the right of each other to determine our own cultural and political allegiances and respect those decisions.

    As a Belfast man, my only loyalties at international level are to the Irish team playing out of Lansdowne Road- always have been and probably will be. The fact that players come from all parts of Ireland and the Diaspora to represent the team will always endear them to nationalists, as will the complete absence of any political sentiment on the terracing (or should that be bucket seats?) and the admittedly ‘nationalist’ character of the team’s emblems.

    The best Boyce and Bowen and others should hope for is that people like me develop a liking for their team as a second preference of sorts- and I would hope for reciprocation from northern Ireland supporters.

    In the meantime, small steps are the order of the day. Let’s start by hoping for two Irish victories on Wednesday night and many more to follow.

  64. The treatment of Hartson by the north’s fans (and given the volume it is not a small number) shows no matter how much the IFA and fans lie about it Windsor Park and the north’s fans are still as sectarian as ever.

    crat, does this mean that the lansdowne road fans, who booed Rangers players, are sectarian

  65. Irishman – bit of common sense at last. Yes – lets hope the boys in green bring 6 points back on Wednesday and extra special good luck to the Republic who still have a decent chance of qualifying.

    John East Belfast – the crowd DID sing Rule Bitannia which was a tad cringeworthy to say the least.

    About time the NI team adopted a new anthem. With all due respect, GSTQ is hardly representative – we should follow the example of the Jocks and Taffs. I reckon something to the tune of Teenage Kicks would do the job nicely.

  66. ‘Bucket seats’

    i’ve splashed the cash and have an east touchline seat.

    60 f’ing euro’s.

    Some of us Belfast boys are prepared to invest the extra 20 euro to watch the game from a better position.

    It could be worse ,i could be back in those god awful seats on the north terrace.

    Here’s hoping for a victory on Wednesday.

  67. Given that:

    1)The IFA has made big leaps in terms of de-secterianising the game

    2)Some people do still sing ‘no surrender’etc

    3)The majority of NI supporters here and elsewhere have condemned the boo-ing

    Is it possible that perhaps some people are actively looking for something to get stuck into NI for? Windsor is a much nicer place for everyone concerned now, I lived on Lower Windsor Avenue last year, and just round the corner the year before and I can say that the majority of people of people who are there singing ‘Rule Britannia’ are the same people who, if they were of a Nationalist nature, would sing rebel songs at Lansdowne. Just a bit of craic, hardly intended to be sectarian, it’s a celebration rather than an attack, but I agree it should go, and so should GSTQ. As for those people who actually are trying to be sectarian? They’re a lot fewer in number now, and most of them are hanging around loveulster.com, telling each other how prod they are, which tells you all you need to know about them.

    Good game today, Hartson’s a violent bugger, and he gets booed in almost every game he plays; the Lennon fiasco made sure there was a clamping down of the anti-Celtic thing.

    Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn’t wash.

  68. Given that:

    1)The IFA has made big leaps in terms of de-secterianising the game

    2)Some people do still sing ‘no surrender’etc

    3)The majority of NI supporters here and elsewhere have condemned the boo-ing

    Is it possible that perhaps some people are actively looking for something to get stuck into NI for? Windsor is a much nicer place for everyone concerned now, I lived on Lower Windsor Avenue last year, and just round the corner the year before and I can say that the majority of people of people who are there singing ‘Rule Britannia’ are the same people who, if they were of a Nationalist nature, would sing rebel songs at Lansdowne. Just a bit of craic, hardly intended to be sectarian, it’s a celebration rather than an attack, but I agree it should go, and so should GSTQ. As for those people who actually are trying to be sectarian? They’re a lot fewer in number now, and most of them are hanging around loveulster.com, telling each other how prod they are, which tells you all you need to know about them.

    Good game today, Hartson’s a violent bugger, and he gets booed in almost every game he plays; the Lennon fiasco made sure there was a clamping down of the anti-Celtic thing.

    Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn’t wash.

    To anyone who feels like Windsor may be a cold house for them, come down, get your arms in the air, and anytime anyone starts being a bigot, we’ll all just start shouting ‘Green And White Army!’

  69. stu

    “Oh, and the Celtic/Green, Ireland/Green thing doesn’t wash.”

    LOL. It washes quite well. Tell us then why some ROI fans wear Celtic jerseys to Ireland matches?

    I’ve been to Ireland matches and seen fans wear their county colours, alot of which are green, for example Mayo’s. I figured it was due to the colour green. Perhaps you have a different theory on that too?

  70. For Goodness sake, the NI Fans know some of their fans have disgraced their team today and set back their Football for All Campaign, there is no need to rub it in,their support against England was amazing,they were let down by a few lunatics today, all countries have these sort of people Enjoy the cyprus result(if not the performance) and look forward to booking a trip to Germany next summer.
    Celtic/Ireland connection does not have to be explained,as Celtic is a club steeped in irishness, located in Scotland, that is the reason so many Celtic shirts are worn at ROI games.

  71. I have a good friend who supports northern ireland (now that they are doing well), he used to come down with me to Lansdowne Road during the ‘lean’ years for the north.

    He enjoyed following which ever Irish team was doing well during a particular period.

    Fair weather supporter , i know , but he just loves the game.

    He managed to blag his way behind the scenes after the England game at Windsor, looking a few autoghaphs etc…

    Anyway, he ended up behind Jim Boyce while waiting to try and meet a few of the players etc… The guy giving out the results on the intercom started letting people know the results from the other games in the group and the other groups. When he announced that the French had beaten the Republic at Lansedowne road, Jim Boyce raised his hand in glee,

    Why would the president of the ifa do this, any ideas.

  72. He’s glad to see the next nearest team get beat, like Arsene Wenger would if Chelsea got beat.

    I think CavanMan pointed out clearly enough that every country has its lunatics, ours more than some.

    If we’re going to get involved in finger pointing, I’ll say that Roy Keane called Mick McCarthy ‘an English cunt’ and leave it at that. Not holding it against him, football’s a competitve game.

  73. stu

    “If we’re going to get involved in finger pointing, I’ll say that Roy Keane called Mick McCarthy ‘an English cunt’ and leave it at that. Not holding it against him, football’s a competitve game.”

    I should hope you don’t hold that agaisnt Keane seeing as he never actually called McCarthy an ‘English cunt’.

    Why let the truth ruin a good story though, eh?

  74. 1. Time to lose the anthem…it is the British anthem, lets get something that provides an identity for NI. Yes, we are British but so are the Welsh and Scots.

    2. Time to lose the Red Hand flag. This flag of Ulster cannot be seperated from paramilitary terror orgainzations at this point. It is akin to the confederate flag in the US, the old rising sun flag of imperial Japan and the nazi flag of Germany. A new flag is in order. Let the terror groups have the blood-stained red hand and those who want peace in NI can move forward with a new flag.

    Proud to be British, proud to be a NI fan but recognize the need for some change.

  75. “It is appalling that ANY visting National Anthem is booed, but unfortunately it is inevitable tomorrow.”

    NI is not a nation and GSTQ is not its anthem

  76. GSTQ shouldn’t be played in NI matches. I find it offennsive I live in a town where the sectarian clubs/drinking dens play GSTQ to see if anyone is an ‘IRA supporter’ creating a kind of social apartheid.
    I’ve never stood for the Queen in my life and I never will.

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