Holiday advice for undercover twitchers…

IT’S not just the Colombian government that wants IRA members extradited – now the Germans are getting in on the act too. PA reported that Scotland Yard was involved in the arrest of alleged Osnabruck bomber Leonard ‘Bap’ Hardy in Spain. Helpfully, Sinn Fein have informed us that the suspect had been living openly in Ireland for years (tut tut, Bertie). So no more overseas birdwatching trips for the C3 then – but perhaps the Hardy case presents an unforeseen problem…

If ‘On the Run’ IRA suspects are allowed home as part of the political deal to restore devolution, then that is a deal between the British Government, the Provos and the Irish Government. So what happens if other governments that have legal treaties with Ireland come knocking on the Dail doors, seeking the extradition of IRA suspects for ‘international terrorism’ or whatever?

To be honest, I can’t think of another example outside Germany at the moment. But unionists might argue that the UK’s amnesty for IRA fugitves and the German extradition case illustrate how far Britain and Ireland have been prepared to move to tie up republican loose ends (which I suppose is a bit of a compliment to SF’s negotiating skills).

How would Londoners have reacted if the Italisn government had refused to extradite a man wanted in connection with the failed bomb attacks of 21 July?

And isn’t it strangely coincidental that Scotland Yard were involved in all this, at this particular time? You’d almost get the impression that someone was pissed off over the Three Amigos making their own way home…!

  • aquifer

    Quite a few English criminals live in Spain as there was no criminal extradition treaty in the past, perhaps based on England’s occupation of Gibraltar. Did Bap misread this? Scotland Yard probably had resources in the area already.

  • Wee Bap

    The Germans extraditing people for war ‘crimes’? Now that’s a joke.

  • circles

    Wee Bap:
    Wheres the joke? Was that a reference to WWII which ended over 60 years ago? I mean 60 years man? You wouldn’t happen to be a Sun reader would you?
    And it isn’t war crimes they want him for Bapster.

    Although if you ask me they should catch themselves own, recognise the political nature of the “crime” and accept the fact that Hardy will become a repeat offender. He just had the misfortune of being born in the “wrong” place, at the “wrong” time and having the “wrong” political disposition.

    This story though highlights really well how some people are still barking up the truly wrong tree. How about some arrests of the “loyalists” who’ve been rippng the place up and continue to do so with impunity?

  • circles

    Ooooopps!!!!!
    I meant
    “Although if you ask me they should catch themselves own, recognise the political nature of the “crime” and accept the fact that Hardy will NOT become a repeat offender”

    bit embarassing that :o)

  • Albert Doyle

    This may be slightly afield but the Germans don’t just extradite people for “war crimes” they grab them for having fobidden opinions. Take a look at the case of Ernst Zundel, just the latest of many, under arrest because he expresses doubts about the Holocaust stories. I guess that makes him a “denier” which will undoubtedly inflame a lot of idiots here too but would get him arrested, fined and jailed, as in Germany.

  • TAFKABO

    “He just had the misfortune of being born in the “wrong” place, at the “wrong” time and having the “wrong” political disposition.”

    He also just happened to be someone who committed crimes including bombing and killing children.
    With the greatest respect, this does place him somewhat outside the pale (if you pardon that particular expression)

  • circles

    Yeah Albert:
    Germany has a lot of people who question the authenticity of holocaust stories.
    A group of them tried to have a march through Wunsiedel at the weekend to remember Rudolf Hess, but thousands of their fellow citizens – oh sorry “idiots” – conspired against them, denying them the right to march their shaven heads through the streets and to spread the word on the danger of foreigners here in the good old Vaterland.
    So much for freedom of speech eh Albert?
    Sure they’re not doing anybody any harm (well apart from the hundreds of people hospitalised every year, the graves that have been destroyed, the fear and the hate, the economic damage they cause their own areas and all that)

    All of which of course has nothing to do with this thread at all.

  • circles

    TAFKABO:
    Thats a mighty big can of worms.
    If thats the case then I’d be all for putting everyone who killed people during the troubles into jail using the same standards for all – of course some british soldiers will have to go down, as well as RUC and for the same lemgth of time as an IRA man. Not to mention soldiers currently serving in Iraq (who incidentally have even started kidnapping children to force families to give information).
    A life is a life and the taking of a life should be punished in exactly the same manner no matter who you are.

    But we all know this isn’t going to happen and to get on the moral high horse for one case and of it for another is hypocrisy of the highest order – so I’d be all for a pragmatic handling of cases like this and not at all in favour of the usual unionist dogmatic chants of “a crime is a crime is a crime” – which all know to be pure nonsense in the eyes of the law anyway.

  • TAFKABO

    “A life is a life and the taking of a life should be punished in exactly the same manner no matter who you are.”

    You don’t believe this, so why sa it?

    “But we all know this isn’t going to happen and to get on the moral high horse for one case and of it for another is hypocrisy of the highest order”

    Who is getting on the moral high horse?, i was simply pointing out that there was a bit more to this case than someone being unfortunate enough to be born with a certain background.

    ” – so I’d be all for a pragmatic handling of cases like this and not at all in favour of the usual unionist dogmatic chants of “a crime is a crime is a crime” – which all know to be pure nonsense in the eyes of the law anyway.”

    Now you are contradicting yourself, a few minutes ago you were saying that all taking of life should be judged the same way.
    Besides, this has nothig to do with Unionists, itas to do with the Germans dealing with crimes committed on their soil.
    If you, or anyone else wants to make an arguments as to why Germany ought to relax its laws in this case, I’d love to hear it.

    over to you.

  • Fraggle

    I hope the evidence they have against this guy is a little better than the evidence they had on Roisin McAlliskey.

  • TAFKABO

    “I hope the evidence they have against this guy is a little better than the evidence they had on Roisin McAlliskey.”

    does this mean you want to see him convicted?

  • circles

    TAFKABO:
    Sorry – in work – can’t post as much, nor as lucidly as I’d like. I was trying to point out that
    1) I do believe that 1 life is as valuable as another (so none of your judgements please – you read a post and think you know what I believer?? you should know better than that) and
    2) the real world does not treat everybody as equal before the law, and allowances are made for circumstances.

    In this case I would say that I do not think that he should be tried by a conventional court due to the specific nature of the offense he has been accused of. I don’t believe that Hardy would have been involved in blowing up anything had it not been for the situation in the 6Cs.
    Whether German courts will consider that is doubtful – they’re none too fond of any kind of radicals / extremists here.

  • pakman

    “In this case I would say that I do not think that he should be tried by a conventional court due to the specific nature of the offense (sic) he has been accused of”

    so circles goes in to bat for the Diplock Courts.

    “they’re none too fond of any kind of radicals / extremists “

    I think you will find that after having suffered Red/ Black terrorism in the 1970s’ as well as the Munich Olympic disaster the Germans, rightly so, are none too fond of terrorism. Exactly the sort of criminality Hardy perpetrated (allegedly).

  • hmmm….interesting

    You ought to read Eamon Collins book “Killing Rage” if you want some details about what Hardbap/Hardy got up to, it wasn’t pretty. The man was/is a terrorist and is on the run for being a terrorist so lets stop with the allegedly bullshit.

  • circles

    “so circles goes in to bat for the Diplock Courts.”

    If thats the best your imagination can come up with pakman I’d say keep taking the power pills and running from those ghosts. Diplock courts aren’t the only alternative….
    anyway – to work …

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “Whether German courts will consider that is doubtful – they’re none too fond of any kind of radicals / extremists here.”

    They know how this story ends.