Irish Americans in online debate

Interesting discussion on Debate Central around the role of Irish Americans in online debate. In their poll of the best venue for quality political debate, our own Jimmy Sands’ site is way ahead of the rest of the distinguished field.

Note: Julie runs DC as a resolutely unmoderated site!

  • Slartibuckfast

    Dc is class. I go there mainly because I’m a f**king Tourette’s suffering c**t.

  • Ciarán Irvine

    Or The Zoo, as some of us residents fondly call it. DebCen is brilliant, full of completely, utterly, daft-as-a-brush senile old men, raving bitter psychotics, deranged neo-Nazis, gay loyalists, Americans, Irish people, a well-stocked menagerie of sock puppets (though most of them belong to a wet-legged Irish Canadian self-proclaimed coward with gender-identity issues), mad “I want to join the SAS when I grow up” military fetishists, Imperialist Socialists, drunks, weirdos, perverts and loons of all descriptions.

    Pull up a chair and join the insult-fest!

  • eleanor

    Ciaran forgot to mention the hundreds of unionists that dominate the site.

  • Ciarán Irvine

    Ellie – as a good Republican unionists get included under “Irish people” whether they want to be or not 😉

  • Eamonn

    Now listen here, Ellie. Harpo (the mad Canadian), Lothario (your former suiter) and his menagerie of sock puppets do not count as ‘hundreds of unionists.’ Yer man forgot to mention the unionists-in-denial that also plague that board every day with their festering pile of rampant whatabouttheIRA that they (that is, youse boys) think passes for debate. The reason thon place gets so heated is the intellectual bankruptcy of the unionist position and the fact that yis couldn’t debate yer way out of a paper bag. Your lot gets exposed for the issue-avoiding supremacists you are. Hahaaa! Slap it up ya!

  • Alan McDonald

    Debate Central! My gosh, I thought that was a bad dream that I visited years ago. Thanks for reminding me of why I never go there anymore.

  • ellie

    Eamonn?

    Are you related to Queer Fellow the San Franciscan shirt lifter, by any chance? :-0

    (Thinks…a rush and a push and the lunacy could be made to spill out of DC and onto O’Toole Street. That would be a laff-riot…)

  • RoryG

    Eamon is the guy that has been barred from most MB’s due to his mysoginistic postings.

  • Eamonn

    Rory boy, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. I could still post away on any messageboard I want to.

    [All right.. let’s keep it civil. This is not DC – ed. Mod]

  • Carraigmor

    Ciaran: I can work out the majority of the people you describe, but who are the drunks?

  • harpo

    ‘a wet-legged Irish Canadian self-proclaimed coward with gender-identity issues’

    Where is the referee to enforce the ‘man-not-ball’ rule when you need him?

    As a victim of PIRA violence who had to get out of NI, I object to this description of me. This it typical tactics from the defenders of nationalist armed force on the DC boards, but I didn’t expect it to be allowed here.

    If there is a man-not-ball policy, I’d say I have been gang tackled at chest height by the other team 5 years after I have retired from playing in this case.

    This is typical tactics from that loser from Londonderry – Ciaran/Sidewinder – dismissing the victims of the Troubles in his constant ‘the IRA wasn’t that bad’ campaign.

    I’m not surprised by him, but I am surprised by the lack of dealing with personal attacks. If this isn’t dealt with I trust that I can respond in kind.

  • peteb

    harpo

    This thread got a degree of lattitude to begin with.. (and possibly it was the wrong decision)

    But that won’t continue.

  • harpo

    ‘But that won’t continue.’

    What exactly does that mean?

    Thanks for the reply BTW.

  • peteb

    It means that the comments will be moderated more closely than they may have been up to now.

  • Eamonn

    Ahh yis is nothing but spoilsports. [ed. Spoilsport]

  • Eamonn

    Is Harpo doing the old ‘wah wah wah everybody’s picking on me’ routine again? Poor wee crater. God love him.

  • Davros

    I strongly object to the use of that expression Eamonn. Shame on you.

  • harpo

    ‘It means that the comments will be moderated more closely than they may have been up to now.’

    Ah…the old ‘peace process’ approach. ‘We are prepared to forgive all of the things you have done up to this point, but we are really going to throw the book at you from this point on’.

    BTW
    Who are you anyway? The moderator’s big sister?

  • harpo

    ‘Is Harpo doing the old ‘wah wah wah everybody’s picking on me’ routine again? Poor wee crater. God love him.’

    Not at all.

    Just exposing the ‘Ireland of equals’ thinking that ‘nationalists’ like Ciaran/Sidewinder and you routinely engage in. Victims of terrorism are abused, not the terrorists themselves. So people who are bombed out of NI are called cowards, instead of the real cowards – the IR terrorists who bombed a civilian family in the middle of the night.

    You do it over on DC, and I see plenty on here who pick on the likes of the McCartneys instead of directing their venom at the PIRA and their fellow terrorists.

    It’s simply all about abusing those who dare complain about the Provisionals – that’s why you do it.

  • Eamonn

    No I don’t.

  • barnshee

    This is the on that normally shuts up all the apologists for catholic republican murder gangs


    Of all the hideous and blood thirsty atrocities carried out by the blood-thirsty fiends of Sinn Fein IRA in the name of so called Irish Freedom, the murder of Mrs Jean McConville must rate as one of the most blood-curdling tales to emerge from over 30 years of terror.
    The execution of Jean McConville Beaten up and killed for one simple act of charity. You might imagine that she had suffered enough. She was 37 and her husband Arthur had died from cancer just 10 months earlier. Her eldest daughter was in Muckamore Abbey (a home for the mentally retarded), and her eldest son Robert, 17, was interned on the prison ship Maidstone, suspected of involvement with Sinn Fein IRA.
    Jean McConville was 20 when she first met Arthur in Belfast. It was not a time of plenty, but it was a time of peace. He was Catholic, a British Army squaddie. She was a Protestant girl from working-class East Belfast. She changed her religion and began producing children. In early 1973, when the world first heard about Jean McConville, her daughter Anne was 19; Robert, the internee, was 17; Arthur was 16; Helen was 15; Agnes 13; Micky 11; Thomas 8; Suzanne 7; Billy and Jim, the twins, were six years old.
    The Troubles came to Belfast in 1969. The family moved into a new home, a little house in St Jude’s Walk part of the notorious Divis complex, overlooked by the appalling high-rise Divis Flats. You might think Jean McConville and her family had suffered enough. But Arthur was diagnosed with cancer and in the February of that year, 1972, he died. Robert was already in prison. Anne was in a home. Billy, one of the twins, lost a kidney and Helen broke her leg. Jean, trying to hold it all together, suffered a mental breakdown. But the fates weren’t finished with Jean McConville. On just another brutal day in the Belfast of the Seventies, a single sniper’s shot rang out from the Divis Flats, cutting down a young British soldier. As he lay bleeding on the pavement, Jean McConville came out of her house with a pillow, put it under his head and, as his life ebbed away, whispered a few prayers into the dying squaddie’s ear. But others were whispering at the sight of such common decency.
    Their whispering soon leeched back to the brave men of `B’ Company, Provisional Sinn Fein IRA, Belfast, a group of notorious serial killers living in the twisted reign of terror of 1972. Everybody had suffered enough. But not Jean McConville or so some people thought. They daubed `Brit Lover’ in red paint on the front door of her home and then, on the bitterly cold night of December 6, things took a sinister turn. A woman lured her into a car, where she was pushed to the floor and taken to a house on the Glen Road. They held her for four hours and beat her, claiming she was an informer, but that was nonsense.
    She was found by the Army, wandering barefoot and confused. It was freezing cold. The Army took her to the barracks in Albert Street and tried to make some sense out of what had happened. “They came and asked me to collect her. When I got to the door of the barracks I could hear her screaming, but she insisted on coming back to look after us,” recalls her daughter Helen. The following evening Jean McConville was still sore from her ordeal.
    Looking at her photograph now, you know that she had suffered enough. In the grainy black-and-white snap of 1972, she looks 20 years older than 37. But some people are never satisfied. Certainly not the bitter men of `B’ Company. Shortly after Helen left eight men and four women descended on the house. “They dragged her from the bathroom. They said they were only taking her for a few hours. My elder brother Arthur followed them down to a waiting car. One of the men pulled a gun and put it to his head and told him to f**k off,” says Helen. “They had been wearing masks, but they took them off outside. Arthur knew who some of them were, but he has never said who and he never will, or the same might happen to him.” For years after that, Helen would pass one of the women almost every day, but their gazes never met.
    The kids waited for their mother to come home and Helen took charge of the household. They were afraid to report her missing to the RUC, so Christmas 1972 came and went. Their granny, Mary McConville, 68, came over from her house in Collingswood Walk to help out. They scraped together a few presents but it was a cold and lonely Christmas without a mother, abandoned by the community. What happened to Jean McConville? She was taken to a house in the Beechmount area of Belfast for what Sinn Fein IRA call “interrogation”. The brave “freedom fighters” put a plastic bag over the head of the Roman Catholic mother of 10 and began to question her. She suffered terribly until the last breath was squeezed out of her sad life. Some time after Christmas, a man called to the McConvilles’ house. He had their mother’s purse, with just her three rings inside it. He told them that he knew nothing about her, that he had just been asked to return it.
    That was all they had left of their mother. On January 17, 1973, with the family at the end of their tether, the young McConvilles went to the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association for help. The next day the story was in the newspapers under the heading: `Return mother, family of 10 plead’. It makes heart-rending reading today. The IRA had murdered Jean McConville and now, in prolonging the McConvilles’ agony by withholding her body, they were showing that they could control the lives and destiny of anyone who crossed them. Terrorism in its purest form. “We daren’t tell the police, because you don’t do things like that around here. If we knew where to look for her, we would. No-one tells us anything,” the then 15-year-old Helen told reporters. But the killers had further evil intent in store for the McConvilles. The following day “reliable sources” in Belfast told the papers that Jean McConville was “alive and well and living in Britain”.
    That report (January 19, 1973) said she had been released by her IRA kidnappers, flown to Britain and was living at a “secret” hideout in Belfast. Years later the truth come out and proves the liars that Adams and co really are.
    Jeans body was found in 2003 from information given by an IRA tout. She had 4 fingers chopped of, many broken bones from a vicious beating and was shot in the back of the head.”

    “Wonderful” people supported by “lovely” people in USA -carried out these actions I am sure that they are really proud of themselves and their struggle for “irish Freedom”

  • Eamonn

    Harpo lad, it is a known fact that the biggest deflectors on DC are youse boys. The term: “Translation: “What about the IRA”” has been used so often in response to your rampant whataboutery that has become an established part of the DC folklore. Youse boys cannot stand the sight of any discussion of loyalist violence. You change the subject back to the IRA with all the reflexive reactions of a leg lifting in response to the knee beig hit by a hammer. Yis is the biggest subject-changers in all of creation. If a man were to post about the weather you’d find a way to turn the topic around to bashing the IRA. Yis is obsessed with them despite their having been dormant for god knows how long now. Away out of that with ya!

  • barnshee

    Eamonn
    Fancy a pop at my Post?
    Thought not

  • Davros

    Could you people take your DC behaviour back from whence it came ?

  • harpo

    ‘The term: “Translation: “What about the IRA”” has been used so often’

    Simply done by people like you to avoid having to discuss….PIRA activity.

    Terrorists in Colombia? Gun-running? Beatings of so-called anti-social elements? Gathering intelligence? Murdering people after pub disputes? A discussion starts, and someone like you tries to end it by posting “What about the IRA”. The discussions ARE about the PIRA, and you posting that inane set of words doesn’t end the discussions.

    ‘it is a known fact that the biggest deflectors on DC are youse boys’

    Us victims of terrorist violence are deflectors? Nonsense. There are only one set of deflectors on DC – certain nationalists who can’t bear to see their beloved PIRA be criticised. There are no defenders of loyalist violence on DC, even though people like you will try to portray several of us unionists as such.

    The terrorist defenders are uniformly nationalist in view. The nutty ‘Irish’ Americans and the home-grown fanatics who believe that the La Mon House bomb was a legitimate military action because it was a British spy centre. Now that’s deflection! Not to mention fantasy.

  • harpo

    ‘Could you people take your DC behaviour back from whence it came ?’

    Well excuse me for coming over here to defend myself in front of the coffee-table set.

  • peteb

    “Well excuse me for coming over here to defend myself in front of the coffee-table set.”

    Under a pseudonym.. which no-one had actually mentioned..

    Hmmm..

    [/moderator’s big sister]

  • Eamonn

    “Simply done by people like you to avoid having to discuss….PIRA activity.”

    No, start a subject about violence from the loyalist side and immediately the subject will be changed by youse boys to the IRA.

    “Terrorists in Colombia? Gun-running? Beatings of so-called anti-social elements? Gathering intelligence? Murdering people after pub disputes?”

    Translation: “What about the IRA?”

    “A discussion starts, and someone like you tries to end it by posting “What about the IRA”. The discussions ARE about the PIRA, and you posting that inane set of words doesn’t end the discussions.”

    Incorrect. If a discussion starts about the IRA (seemingly an hourly occurence if boys like you are about) then the discussion invariably remains on the subject of the IRA.

    “Us victims of terrorist violence are deflectors? Nonsense. There are only one set of deflectors on DC – certain nationalists who can’t bear to see their beloved PIRA be criticised. There are no defenders of loyalist violence on DC, even though people like you will try to portray several of us unionists as such.”

    Incorrect. You’re so desperate that you have now taken to telling lies. Tell you what, conduct a little experiment. Create another sock puppet (to go with your existing menagerie), pose as an IR, start a thread giving out about some loyalist violence, and watch the whataboutery flow. You can set your watch by it.

    “The terrorist defenders are uniformly nationalist in view. The nutty ‘Irish’ Americans and the home-grown fanatics who believe that the La Mon House bomb was a legitimate military action because it was a British spy centre. Now that’s deflection! Not to mention fantasy.”

    Mad Bob usually waits for other people to bring up the La Mon thing (this usually happens in a thread about loyalist violence, funnily enough) and then sticks his oar in with his wacky theories about legit targets.

    Your lot, on the other hand, are a bit more subtle in your defence of loyalist violence. You defend it by justifying it, claiming that it was the IRs that started it. You know? How the dreaded catholics just got up one morning in the perfect, peaceful, rosy Ulster garden and decided to go on a killing spree for no apparent reason.

    And god forbid if any of us should complain about mistreatment. It gets dismissed by youse boys as MOPEry, the old Most Oppressed People Ever syndrome. That term was invented by one of yours, by the way.

  • Slartibuckfast

    ‘Well excuse me for coming over here to defend myself in front of the coffee-table set.’

    Damn straight, Harpo. Get your wab out and wave it at those lentil reading Guardian eaters(I know what I wrote and I stand by it). Then get back over to DC as I need someone to curse at.

  • peteb

    I’m sure you guys have a thread on DC where you can continue this discussion.

    Otherwise there is a very real possibility the comments on this thread will be closed.

  • Eamonn

    “I’m sure you guys have a thread on DC where you can continue this discussion.”

    Anyone not interested in this thread (or who doesn’t have the stomach for it) is cordially invited to not read it.

  • peteb

    That may be how it works at DC, Eamonn… but not here.

  • pollster

    Peter b

    Update: Jimmy Sands’ site has won the poll for the best forum on NI issues, followed by Slugger O’TOole, then Debate Central.

    So the users of DC have voted that Slugger is better than DC for discussion of NI issues.

  • peteb

    Go Jimmy!!

  • peteb

    Of course, strictly speaking, Slugger isn’t a forum.. it’s a blog..

    *ducks*

  • Eamonn

    Pete, glad to hear that Slugger doesn’t allow the subject-changing whataboutery of the unionists. Proper order!

  • peteb

    Hmmm…

  • barnshee

    Eamonn

    Again -any response??

    (Sings o its all gone quiet over there o its all gone quiet over there all gone quiet all gone quiet all gone quiet over there)

  • harpo

    ‘Of course, strictly speaking, Slugger isn’t a forum.. it’s a blog..’

    Strictly speaking it isn’t a blog.

    How do you work out that it is a blog?

    Isn’t a blog a place where someone, or some group of like-minded people, post their opinions/views?

    All I see here is discussions of issues, like a discussion forum. Someone cuts and pastes, or posts a link to, some article, and then a discussion breaks out.

    If it was a blog, even one ran by several like minded people, wouldn’t they just post the original article, and then post their views on that, as in a shared diary? They certainly wouldn’t allow anyone who just drifts past to post their comments on a real blog.

    I’d say the blog description is just snobbery on the part of those who run this forum.

  • Mick

    To each their own Harpo.

    I’ve been round the houses on this several times already.

    Personally it matters little to me what you call Slugger. However it does qualify as a blog if only because fulfils certain criteria.

    – It uses standard blog software (which is not particularly well suited to acting as a forum).

    – It is written in diary format.

    – It has a blog roll, with links to other blogs.

    Cutting and pasting snippets of articles and linking is large part of what blogging is about. However if that is all you’ve seen so far, I’d suggest you’ve not been reading long enough.