The State they're in…

WOW! Not only has Sinn Fein’s Michael Ferguson a new-found faith in the courts (though one suspects it’s only to dampen further speculation), but Gerry Adams has appealed to witnesses to a fatal road accident in west Belfast involving a police Land Rover to help Northern Ireland’s Police Ombudsman establish what exactly happened (though one suspects that had the death not involved the PSNI, he might have waited for another opportunity).

Baby steps.

And this ISN’T another McCartney thread – as Mick would point out.

  • peteb

    Gonzo.. No baby steps involved.. or, in other words, no silver lining here.

    Help the Police Ombudsman – says Gerry..

    But.. he goes on to claim.. “It is important that this is done in conjunction with a solicitor”.

    Really, Gerry?? Another set of statements delivered by solicitors?.. of no use to anyone..

  • Gum

    Does this really constitute news or a topic worthy of a thread on Slugger? SF have been using the court system for decades now – the argument that they’re hypocrytes is as old.

  • Liam

    I am a Republican, yet I agree, they are showing hints of hypocrisy in that statement.
    Where is the reasoning if they are true Republicans????

  • Achilles

    This thread was obviously started to encourage debate on SF’s attitude to policing. I’m not socialist enough to follow SF, although I’d like to see an end to partition, crime against the elderley, car jacking etc… I think Gerry Adams would like to have a political opportunity to back down from SF’s hardline stance on the PSNI. Politically he feels that SF must play the old style NI political hardball and see a carrot dangled by Tony Blair before backing down. They await this opportunity to arise. Tony Blair awaits SF’s attempt to remove the stigma caused by recent events. SF need more events….. “Events dear boy, events”…Perhaps Tony Blair can provide some cloak and dagger stuff to allow SF to sell the idea of nomalisation to their supporters and end the nonsense. In my opinion political stalemates are not political problems, they are simply tools of the trade. Northern Ireland in a global sense doesn’t have many problems. It’s just that the politicians are using old political tools instead of new ones. I also don’t think this acceptance of policing will be as difficult as republicanism politicians fear. In fact, SF would increase their vote substantially by taking a more moderate line, as it would be seen as a humanitarian move by the potential SDLP swing voters. Most people question how many incidents have to occur in W & N Belfast before SF realise who is really losing with regard to this policy. Republican people do not benefit from this policy and that’s the real bottom line. Youths now think NI culture is to stone anyone in a uniform, be it a fireman, ambulance driver or policeman. NI has to learn – you don’t sh*t in your own back yard.

  • Snapper

    Guys –
    This is a very difficult time for the family involved. May I suggest leaving cheap political point scoring to other less emotional issues.

  • Really, guys

    Yes, the least you can do is show the same respect that has been shown the McCartney and Dorrian families on this website.

  • Achilles

    If you read the initial comment in this blog it does focus on 2 politicians and their party’s attitude to policing. On that subject alone I was discussing. I was not delving into a discussion on that particular incident involving the police landrover because it’s not directly relevent to the subject of this thread, and it’s too personal. I refuse to apologise for what I have written. How did I start my last paragraph?? My point in a nushell was that SF’s refusal to work with the police is having a detrimental affect on the communities they represent. I didn’t realise I was point scoring but some people I guess are over sensitive and combative in communication. The easiest thing to do on a blog is to tell someone else off. Try contributing constructive content in future (See! told you it was easy)

  • Chris Gaskin

    “My point in a nushell was that SF’s refusal to work with the police is having a detrimental affect on the communities they represent”

    Then your understanding of the situtation is limited

    Nationalist and Republican areas have no respect,faith or support in the police.

    Until people accept that reality there will be no movement on the policing issue.

  • Achilles

    Chris,
    Try to answer the point instead of telling me how my knowledge is limited. Your intellegence and communication skills are limited, but I don’t insult you, do I?

    Oh an the rest of your note looks like a SF flyer. As Blackadder said to Baldrick “People have to learn to think for themselves”

    Now, again – I want to know, how does the nationalist and republican community benefit from SFs position where people are encouraged not to go to the police, and they don’t join the policing board?

    To help you, please think of the benifits to the community in terms of economy, unemployment, crime, tourism, education, housing and the environment. Please don’t use party political soundbites in your replies, if you reply. I’m crying out for some originality and real thought out solutions.

    When you have thought about this you might realise what is a real issue, and what is a political stance. Easyjet can get you out of NI for £4.99 if you get fed up waiting for your new police force.

  • Chris Gaskin

    Achilles

    “Your intellegence and communication skills are limited, but I don’t insult you, do I?”

    LOL, I must have hit a nerve

    “Oh an the rest of your note looks like a SF flyer. As Blackadder said to Baldrick “People have to learn to think for themselves”

    That seems to be the typical Unionist response to a point they can’t handle, “it’s just SF spin”

    You need to accept the reality of the situation

    The majority of Nationalists and Republicans in the 6 counties do not accept the PSNI as a fair and impartial force.

    If you want to pretend that is not the case then by all means, reside in denial

    “Now, again – I want to know, how does the nationalist and republican community benefit from SFs position where people are encouraged not to go to the police, and they don’t join the policing board?”

    They don’t benefit and that is the point but Nationalists and Republicans are not prepared to do as the SDLP did and give some cloak of acceptability to the PSNI.

    The reforms of the Police have not gone far enough and until they do the majority of Nationalist’s and Republicans will never support them.

    “To help you, please think of the benefits to the community in terms of economy, unemployment, crime, tourism, education, housing and the environment”

    You just have to look at the obstacle the PSNI are to these various issues.

    In my local area we tried to get a grant to secure all OAP residences this was blocked because we were told to work with the PSNI. Our Resident Groups constitution, ratified by the local community, forbids co-operation with the PSNI.

    Relevant schemes can’t be put into operation until the proper reforms take place.

    As for crime the PSNI only solved 3% of crime in Newry and Mourne last year so let’s stop trying to pretend that they are a credible police service.

    As for leaving, I have no intention to do so

  • Gonzo

    Even if the police are rubbish, are they not better than the alternative?

  • PatMcLarnon

    Is Adams not applying the same criteria to this case that he applied to the Mc Cartney case?

  • Gonzo

    Pat – yes.

  • Edward & Tubs

    “As for crime the PSNI only solved 3% of crime in Newry and Mourne last year so let’s stop trying to pretend that they are a credible police service.”

    The Police need to be able to gather evidence to solve crimes, sometimes that evidence is from witnesses other times forensic. If the communities don’t co-operate how do the police solve crime?? You can’t criticise their clear up rates on one hand and refuse to play your part on the other.

  • Edward & Tubs

    “As for crime the PSNI only solved 3% of crime in Newry and Mourne last year so let’s stop trying to pretend that they are a credible police service.”

    The Police need to be able to gather evidence to solve crimes, sometimes that evidence is from witnesses other times forensic. If the communities don’t co-operate how do the police solve crime?? You can’t criticise their clear up rates on one hand and refuse to play your part on the other.

  • Edward & Tubs

    “As for crime the PSNI only solved 3% of crime in Newry and Mourne last year so let’s stop trying to pretend that they are a credible police service.”

    The Police need to be able to gather evidence to solve crimes, sometimes that evidence is from witnesses other times forensic. If the communities don’t co-operate how do the police solve crime?? You can’t criticise their clear up rates on one hand and refuse to play your part on the other.

  • Achilles

    It’s time to put PSNI, Ombudsman etc to the test. Difficult pill to swallow, but still, there are benefits.

    Republicans can hold the PSNI to account in a manner which people can take seriously.

    Crime rates will fall. Can’t get worse with current approach.

    Who knows, maybe like a broken marriage, if the republican community makes the first step the PSNI may resiprocate with acceleration of the implementation of the Patten commission.