SDLP excluded from Castlereagh DPP

Daily Ireland ran a story yesterday on the ‘exclusion’ of one of Castlereagh’s two SDLP councillors from the District Policing Partnership. “Six DUP councillors were returned, along with two members of the Ulster Unionist Party and one member of the Alliance Party”.

The SDLP’s Brian Hanvey complained about the ambiguity in the legislation governing selection:

The problem in Castlereagh is that it is a unionist-dominated council and now the DPP does not reflect the make-up of the wider community. What is the Policing Board going to do about that and how does a move like this progress policing post-Patten?

  • mnob

    Can anyone elaborate what they mean by ‘the wider community’ ?

    Do they mean the wider community in Castlereagh or the wider community in Northern Ireland ?

    Do the SDLP want to redraw the boundaries of each DPP to suit themselves then ? I thought the whole point eas that they were local.

    Live by the sword …

  • Carrington

    DPP places are allocated on a proportional basis – the SDLP are trying (yet again) to have their cake and eat it.

  • Carrington

    “The problem in Castlereagh is that it is a unionist-dominated council”

    I know Brian, if only we could make all those nasty Unionists disappear.

  • Fraggle

    Carrington proportional how?

    The DPP has 9 places to be shared amongst 23 councillors or 0.39 places per council seat.

    The DUP have 43% of council seats and yet get 67% of DPP seats. They should only get 4 seats.

    The SDLP have 2 council seats or 9% and get no places. The SDLP should get at least one seat on the DPP. This is going purely on a ‘proportional’ basis, nevermind other political considerations.

  • Carrington

    Fraggle

    The DUP actually have 13 out of 23 seats which equates to 57% of the council seats. The system for allocating seats on District Policing Partnerships is something which is not decided by councils independently – it is set down in law – and cannot be altered from area to area.

    I don’t think it was D’Hondt, but what and irony it would be if it was!

    The SDLP should stop running whinging everytime they don’t get some committee here and some chairmanship there, it’s really rather pathetic.

  • Justice

    Castlereagh DPP places were apportioned strictly according to our old friend d’Hondt. The SDLP cry out for d’Hondt to be used in Castlereagh and when it is they want d’Hondt plus. The SDLP gripe is that not enough electors in Castlereagh voted for them.

    What the SDLP do not say is that not only were DPP places based on d’Hondt but that committee places, Chairmanships and Deputy Chairmanships were also based on d’Hondt.

  • Justice

    Castlereagh DPP places were apportioned strictly according to our old friend d’Hondt. The SDLP cry out for d’Hondt to be used in Castlereagh and when it is they want d’Hondt plus. The SDLP gripe is that not enough electors in Castlereagh voted for them.

    What the SDLP do not say is that not only were DPP places based on d’Hondt but that committee places, Chairmanships and Deputy Chairmanships were also based on d’Hondt.

  • Fraggle

    Ok, sorry about incorrect numbers.

  • Gonzo

    The SDLP have been crying out for d’Hondt to be applied to everything as some kind of panacea for all our problems. Now when it bites them on the ass, they want ‘d’Hondt plus’.

  • yerman

    The SDLP really dont know irony. D’Hondt has always been Mark Durkan’s claim to fame. He loves to harp on about how he pushed it as an issue in the talks leading to the Belfast Agreement.

    Where a Council doesnt run d’Hondt, the SDLP whinge about exclusion, then for a committe/council or any other position where d’Hondt IS run they still complain!!!

    It comes down to them wanting to feel opressed, so much so that even when they get what they want then that is still somehow a terrible cruelty being imposed on them.

  • SDLP Supporter

    9 Places

    Stage 1

    DUP 13/2=6.5 1 Place
    UUP 4
    Alliance 4
    SDLP 2

    Stage 2

    DUP 6.5/2=3.75 1 Place
    UUP 4
    Alliance 4
    SDLP 2

    Stage 3

    DUP 3.75
    UUP 4* – 4/2=2 1 Place
    Alliance 4
    SDLP 2

    *UUP goes first cos they has more votes on Polling Day

    Stage 4

    DUP 3.75
    UUP 2
    Alliance 4 – 4/2=2 1 Place
    SDLP 2

    Stage 5

    DUP 3.75 – 3.75/2=1.875 1 Place
    UUP 2
    Alliance 2
    SDLP 2

    Stage 6

    DUP 1.875
    UUP 2 – 2/2=1 1 Place
    Alliance 2
    SDLP 2

    Stage 7

    DUP 1.875
    UUP 1
    Alliance 2 – 2/2=1 1 Place
    SDLP 2

    Stage 8

    DUP 1.875
    UUP 1
    Alliance 1
    SDLP 2 – 1/2 = 0.5 1 Place

    Stage 9

    DUP 1.875 – 1.875/2 = 0.9375 1 Place
    UUP 1
    Alliance 1
    SDLP O.5

    D’Hondt result = 4 DUP, 2 Ulster Unionists, 2 Alliance, 1 SDLP.

    What the heck happened in Castlereagh?

  • SDLP Supporter

    Mistake at Stage 8 2/2 = 1, not 0.5.

  • Young Fogey

    What the heck happened in Castlereagh?

    You’re not running d’Hondt properly, SDLP supporter. You’re dividing by 2 after every allocation, which isn’t used in any apportionment system I know of.

  • SDLP Supporter

    Justice (a misnomer surely)

    “What the SDLP do not say is that not only were DPP places based on d’Hondt but that committee places, Chairmanships and Deputy Chairmanships were also based on d’Hondt.”

    Funny, the DUP had to wait until they had a majority before they supported D’Hondt. The previous four years they ruled jointly with their Patsies in the UUP.

    The silence from Duppers on this subject is now defeaning, given that I have demonstrated how D’Hondt would not have delivered the result that was delivered at the CBC AGM.

  • SDLP Supporter

    Young Fogey

    Well shut my mouth! I thought it was 2 every time – goes to show what I know!

  • Young Fogey

    given that I have demonstrated how D’Hondt would not have delivered the result that was delivered at the CBC AGM.

    Check your facts, Stooper man! You don’t know how d’Hondt works! A buck stupid system, anyway.

    In d’Hondt the original total is divided by 2 after the first seat is allocated, 3 after the second seat is allocated, 4 after the third etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D'Hondt_method – is a bit opaque.

    But if you go to:

    http://www.election.de

    Choose the Mandate-Rechner link and then, in the pop-up window change the ‘Zuteilungsverfahren’ option to d’Hondt, it demonstrates it graphically better than I could in words.

  • Young Fogey

    Sorry, crossposted with you there, Stooper dude.

    FWIW, I think it’s wrong that the SDLP aren’t represented on the Castlereagh DPP. But to be honest, I think it’s hilarious that d’Hondt has blown up in their face a few times – it really is a buck stupid system for exactly this reason. Live by the sword and die by the sword and all that!

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    Going by that German site (and assuming I calculated correctly), of the 3 systems only D’Hondt gave the SDLP no seats. Ah the bitter irony.

  • PatMcLarnon

    Now that the DUPers are applying D’hondt in Castlereagh one can only assume that their bellyaching in Limavady was no more than a rather tired stunt.

  • irishman

    The real way for nationalists to achieve equality at local govt. level is for nationalists to match unionists in the discrimination stakes.

    No Sinn Fein committee members in Coleraine and Ballymena? Respond like with like in Magherafelt, Derry, Newry, Strabane and Omagh. Exclude unionists from positions of authority in these councils until they publicly commit to power-sharing in Lisburn, Ballymena, Ballymoney and Coleraine.

    That would certainly get the unionist contributors on this site whinging and, more importantly, give them a taste of their own medicine.

    It would also make the Brits get off their back-sides and move to make power-sharing a statutory obligation at local govt. Whilst it is only taigs getting the raw end of the deal, the Brits are under no pressure to yield. I say the time has come to play hardball with unionism.

    On this one, ironically, I am with many unionists. There’s no point nationalists complaining about unionists refusing to share power without utilising the weapons at our own disposal to reciprocate and bring the matter to a head.

  • Young Fogey

    Going by that German site (and assuming I calculated correctly), of the 3 systems only D’Hondt gave the SDLP no seats. Ah the bitter irony.

    You did calculate correctly.

  • David

    Irishman

    Exactly what would be achieved by following your suggestion? We have seen in the past that going tit for tat like that just doesn’t work. The oppurtunity exists for nationalists to take the higher ground.

  • yerman

    Nationalists aren’t being discriminated against in Castlereagh – thats the whole point! They cant be discriminated against in a system which they approved to hand out seats on a non-discriminatory basis!!!

  • Tampico

    Any d’Hondt calculator I have looked at does not give the SDLP a seat. What on earth are they complaining about?

  • El Matador

    SDLP Supporter’s analysis of d’Hondt is absolutely correct. Look at Sydney Elliott’s guide at BBC d’Hondt

    The SDLP should have got a seat on Castlereagh DPP via d’Hondt.

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    Further to the fact that they aren’t being discriminated against in Castlereagh, I watched a show on BBC last week (H&M I think) on which a DUP and SDLP councillor argued about Lisburn.

    Essentially the SDLP have the chair on the committee with responsibility for over half the council’s budget. OK so they didn’t implement d’Hondt, but given the result it got the SDLP in Castlereagh, are they sure they should be complaining about this?

    I’m not going to dignify the rest of Irihsman’s mope with a response.

  • Mrs Attwood

    Reality states that the sdlp are now a political noniety, a small middle class grouping the majority of Nationalists have turned they back on. In large parts of the North and especially in Nationalist parts of Belfast they no longer exist.
    Now all this crying about not getting seats is nothing more than a storm in a teacup, something to win them respect in the eyes of nationalists.
    But maybe someone should tell them that nationalists don`t care…

  • IJP

    El Matador

    Not that I’d trust the BBC with such things, but in fact the BBC has it right – and SDLP Supporter by his/her own admission hasn’t.

    If the SDLP wants to insist on d’Hondt left right and centre, it can stand or die by it.

    Me? I prefer voluntary power-sharing…

  • Billy Pilgrim

    I’m no expert on D’Hondt, nor am I an expert on Castlereagh council.

    However, at the risk of pointing out that trees are MADE of wood, could anyone seriously dispute the assertion that the behaviour of unionist councillors in places like Castlereagh, Lisburn, Ballymena etc is an ongoing disgrace?

    What the hell is the matter with these people? Nationalist councillors in nationalist-dominated councils have a proven track record in their commitment to equality, fairness, parity of esteem. Unionist mayors in nationalist-dominated councils like Newry and Mourne offer evidence that when nationalists talk about respecting the minority, they mean it.

    What is wrong with unionism, that its representatives must behave so badly even over positions so trivial? What is wrong with unionism that posters here will defend such practices?

  • Davros

    Nationalist councillors in nationalist-dominated councils have a proven track record in their commitment to equality, fairness, parity of esteem.

    Do they ? There have been problems with several Nationalist run councils Billy. I would suggest that one side’s in effect as bad as the other and a plague on both their houses.

  • Young Fogey

    I’m no expert on D’Hondt, nor am I an expert on Castlereagh council

    Yes, d’Hondt is a really stupid system, designed for electing bodies with thousands of voters, not elections with nearly as many people voting as there are seats to be filled, and certainly not designed to elect, for example, a cabinet. With small numbers of votes cast, it’s terribly un-proportional, and it erodes the sort of trust needed to build genuine power sharing.

    That’s why I’ve always wondered why the SDLP’s support for it was so theological.

    Interestingly d’Hondt has also screwed the SDLP over in Magherafelt, but as it’s the Shinners benefiting from it there, I’ve heard a lot less comment about that.