FAIR step up campaign for justice.

Ever since the Libyan Government agreed to pay compensation to the families of those killed in the Lockerbie bombing there have been calls for similar compensation to be paid to the victims of IRA violence carried out using weapons supplied by the Gaddafi regime.

The calls for compensation have not been heeded, but the FAIR group based in Markethill have now launched a new petition which is being carried in the Newsletter calling for an apology from the Libyan Government.

The article on the FAIR site states that the campaign has the backing of families of those killed in the 9/11 attacks and outlines previous attempts made by FAIR to meet with Colonel Gaddafi. Because the majority of IRA killings were carried out using Lybian weapons the group has been trying, for some time, to gather publicity and support for this campaign.

  • Brendan

    The Unionist Party armed the UVF in 1913 and the B Specials and many of those weapons were used to kill nationalists/Catholics in the ensuing years. Does that mean that the families of those victims should be entitled to compensation from the Unionist Party? Honestly!!!! I appreciate that people lost loved ones during the Troubles but we as a society need to move on and put the past behind us. That doesn’t necessarily mean we forget about the victims of the violence of the past 30 years, but this sort of “carry on” only serves to reinforce bitterness and division.

  • Fanny

    This is calling for an apology, not compensation.
    I assume Brendan had no objection to calls for a British apology for the potato famine?
    Personally I think these historical apologies are largely pointless unless they are willingly offered – but that applies across the board.
    Nobody who has ever used the stupid phrase “800 years of oppression” gets to complain about this, comprende?
    PS Clive: It’s ‘Libya’, dumbass.

  • CavanMan

    This Fair group are nothing but a secondary unionist party, they claim to be non political? where are all the references to UDA/UVF attrocities against nationalists/catholics, in their opinion, only one community suffered over the 30 years,Its no wonder they are not taken seriously.

  • Fanny

    So, quite unlike – say – the Pat Finucane Centre then?

    I’d go so far as to say that FAIR was actually a secondary loyalist party. I’d also say that’s sauce for the goose around here.

  • la Dolorosa

    I don’t think it’s helpful or tactful to create a ‘hierarcyorleague table of victims and victimhood – it only adds to the diviseness of it all.

  • La Dolorosa

    It also smacks of ‘whataboutery’…..

  • Fanny

    In that case, La Dolorosa, you might as well emigrate.
    Hierarchies of victims are what we’re all about in Ireland, north and south, civilian, paramilitary or criminal.
    I’ll wager you subscribe to a fairly strict hierarchy of victims yourself.

  • La Dolorosa

    fanny – what is so insiduous about having ‘hierarchies of victims’ is that it implies some lives are more important than others and it’s not just in Ireland. In Iraq there’s no number count for dead Iraqies but there is for US and British dead.

  • daithi

    I find it fascinating that a general consenus on this site is that being guilty of ‘whataboutery’ implies that one has lost the argument or the original point is not valid. In a conflict situation it is all about whataboutery, its what causes the conflict, what sustains it and what sparks it off again.

  • toronto

    This would set an interesting precedent. Almost every Third World country that has had a civil conflict could choose to sue the United States, Russia, France, etc. After all, they’re the world’s biggest arms dealers. They make Gadafi look like that low-life gunrunner in “Taxi Driver.”

  • PatMcLarnon

    For some strange reason FAIR has been less then vociferous in their support for the families of Andrew Robb and David Mc Ilwaine, I wonder why?

  • Brendan

    Fanny – I’m pretty much indifferent to calls for an apology from the British for the potato famine; now an apology for 800 years of oppression would be a good starting point ;p

  • Davros

    If we are going down the apology route Brendan – how about an apology from Ireland for the attacks on, and colonisation of parts of, what are now Scotland, England and Wales that pre-date this supposed “800 years of oppression”? 😉

    La D – we already have a hierarchy of Victims that was reinforced at the time of the GFA.

  • bertie

    The issue here is that our government has backed the compensation for Lockerbie victims and put pressure on, but refused to do the same for victims of Lybian backed IRA terrorism.

  • bertie

    how can FAIR be considered a party? and what does the “loyalist” label mean? Are you saying that FAIR is a terrorist organisation and if so on what basis?

  • CavanMan

    FAIR is a loyalist propaghanda group, who want us to believe that during the 30 years people only suffered at the hands of republican terrorists.Not one mention of the countless nationalist murdered by the british army and their UDA/UVF cohorts.

  • Fanny

    CavanMan, all you say about FAIR is true.
    However like much that is reactive about unionism it is simply a response to the same sort of one-sided whataboutery perfected by the Shinners and their proxies down the years.
    So to that extent FAIR is fair enough.
    Nobody is actually fooled by either side’s cheerleaders for a moment, of course. To a large extent all their machinations are an intellectual exercise for the political/media elite.
    It is the literally thousands of families who deal with the grief privately that always amaze me.

  • bertie

    I repeat “what does the “loyalist” label mean? Are you saying that FAIR is a terrorist organisation and if so on what basis?”

  • Fanny

    FAIR’s links to mid-Ulster loyalism are a matter of record. It has had a particularly cosy relationship with the LVF in the past.
    However it’s all of the “but we just met them to address grievances” sort of a thing that excuses DUP involvement on the loyalist commission, for example. And Gerry was never in the IRA.

  • Me

    In case you haven’t noticed folks – FAIR is headed up by that renowned sophisticate, wit, seer, sage and general prince among men Willie Frazer – – say no more, I rest my case etc. etc. etc.

  • D’Oracle

    Wasnt said Libyan merchandise of Russian, Czech etc provenance ;they made them so they should be billed also
    (Are inanimate objects or rather their makers responsible for the uses people put them to?)

  • Joseyboy

    Let’s be clear. This is a transparent case of professissonal mopers becoming bored of bashing nationalists and the government/s and regressing into begging for money in order to go away and stop pretending to be aggrieved.

    Lots of luck, chancers.

  • Mark Baxter

    “FAIR’s links to mid-Ulster loyalism are a matter of record. It has had a particularly cosy relationship with the LVF in the past.”

    To be honest I’ve always considered FAIR to be quite a reasonable group. I would have always considered them to have a unionist slant, but to accuse them of being hand in pocket with the LVF seems a step to far. Do you have any proof of this, Fanny?

  • offer it up

    Willie Frazer has links with loyalist and right-wing elements both in Northern Ireland, Britain and the USA. He was an Ulster Independence Movement candidate in the 1998 Assembly elections. He has hosted a visitor with notorious links to the KKK, and on visiting the US with FAIR met Jesse Helms and other such advocates of segregation.

    FAIR simply exist to cause division. Their anti-Catholicism and affiliation with loyalism is thinly veiled by this innocent victims malarky. FAIR are on record as saying that Majella O’Hare – the 12 year old schoolgirl who was shot dead by the British Army in Whitecross – was a ‘friendly-fire victim’. And every member of Willie Frazer’s family that was killed was wearing a British Army uniform – so I’m unsure as to how ‘innocent victims’ can be applied to protagonists in a conflict?

  • bertie

    “begging for money in order to go away and stop pretending to be aggrieved”

    so if you are a victim of terrorism, then being aggreived is a pretence????

    “in their opinion, only one community suffered over the 30 years”

    yea and the cancer research charities think that heart attacks are trivial!

    FAIR does seem to have a focus on victims of republican violence, but that is partly due to their active membership being that and that people who come together from suffering tend to do so with people in a similar boat and cultural cohesion helps. I have been told, (I asked them recently about this) that they have contacts with victims murdered by “loyalist” terrorists, who are not themselves sympathetic to IRA/Sinn Fein. I would imagine those sympathetic to IRA/Sinn Fein would not want serious engagement even if FAIR did. Contact with nationalists not sypathetic to IRA/Sinn Fein would have to be done discretly so as not to put them in danger from them. Of course there are unionists who have been murdered by the UVF etc. apart from inter “loyalist” feuding. And of course the IRA has murdered more than its fair share of Roman Catholics.

  • Carrington

    Fanny

    The DUP don’t have representatives on the Loyalist Commission. Get your facts right.

    As for the question of a victims heirarchy – if there isn’t one, there damn well should be!

    No-one, no matter in what flowing prose or attempted “reasonableness” they couch their argument will ever persuade me that the scum intercepted by the British Army, trying to murder innocent people at Loughgall have any moral equivalence with the people killed at Enniskillen or Omagh. Terrorists out to kill and destroy property who get caught in the act are not victims.

    That anyone should even attempt to argue that point is ludicrous.

  • harlequin

    Yes its all so unfair how these unionist-affiliated groups look after themselves. And indeed they should be getting involved in the crimes that have been committed against republicans and nationalists. So in order for them to address this apparent inequality, they should start immediately to campaign for justice for republicans and nationalists who have been the victims of terrible crimes. Starting with McCartney.

    There you go, perfect solution…happy now?

  • offer it up

    harlequin

    Don’t be ridiculous. The point here is that FAIR present themselves as the voice of ‘innocent’ victims. If they simply said they were a group for unionist/Protestant victims, it would be a bit more honest and much less insulting.

    FAIR insinuate that only those killed by the IRA and other republican groups were victims in this conflict.

  • offer it up

    offer it up

    I notice you put the word innocent in quotes. Are you implying that they represent people who are not innocent victims? Guilty victims? Who are you referring to?

    More importantly, I honestly don’t care which side of the fence they represent – if they are representing people who have suffered at the hands of terrorists of either hue they get my vote.

    This seems to me like just another sad example of the usual depressing zero-sum attitude we take for granted in NI

  • harlequin

    offer it up – apologies – I somehow managed to send my last post in your name. Don’t know how that happened.

  • bertie

    Carrington – well said

  • John

    Well its all a waste of time anyway.Nobody is taking them seriously and never will.Guns that came from Lybia, that came from Russia or Czech before that.Who are you gonna bill, and who is gonna pay up anyway?Then that sets a precident for any victims.Loyalist groups have done plenty of killing with the help of the british government.Are they gonna start paying compensation too.All they are to do is generate a bit of simpathy towards their side of things when in truth the loyalist are the worst culprits of the lot.

  • John

    Well its all a waste of time anyway.Nobody is taking them seriously and never will.Guns that came from Lybia, that came from Russia or Czech before that.Who are you gonna bill, and who is gonna pay up anyway?Then that sets a precident for any victims.Loyalist groups have done plenty of killing with the help of the british government.Are they gonna start paying compensation too.All they are to do is generate a bit of simpathy towards their side of things when in truth the loyalist are the worst culprits of the lot.

  • TAFKABO

    “All they are to do is generate a bit of simpathy towards their side of things when in truth the loyalist are the worst culprits of the lot.”

    How do you work that one out?

    Are people killed by Loyalists a bit more dead than people killed by republicans?