Daily Ireland blames Government for job losses…

DAILY Ireland chief Mairtin O’Muilleoir has confirmed on Talkback today (about 2/3 way through) that jobs will go at the republican newspaper – but fewer than the 12 speculated. He blames the Brits, of course, for not advertising in the publicly-funded newspaper.

O’Muilleoir argues that the Government discriminates against republicans by not advertising in it. Dunseith countered by saying that new Local Press publication Daily View doesn’t get Government advertising either, the reason being that it hasn’t been going long enough to be certified by the Audit Bureau of Circulations.

O’Muilleoir noted that a local Newry newspaper is not audited, yet receives Government advertising. He demanded that the Government publishes its criteria for advertising.

However, the ABC figures are out shortly, and – contrary to much speculation – O’Muilleoir said they would reveal sales of more than 10,000.

You expect an anti-establishment paper like Daily Ireland to come out fighting. But to find its strategy was so heavily dependent upon British Government support must surely cause eyebrows to be raised.

  • Keith M

    The brass neck of O’Muilleoir is hard to believe. Here is a a supposed NEWSpaper (actually just a provo hymnsheet), which gets a handout from the UK taxpayer to help set it up and still can’t get decent circulation figures. Then he wants the UK government to place adds where the circulation is 12,000. In the immortal words of John McEnroe “you CANNOT be serious!”.

  • peteb

    Gonzo

    “publicly-funded newspaper”?

    And, in contrast to the claims of Mairtin, from the Slugger archives – Myopic Liberals in Shock

    The Government did advertise in Daily Ireland.. at least they did in the first edition.

    I have to say I found Mairtin’s narrative more than a little self-serving.. and we await the circulation figures to see if the fact relate in any way to his report..

    But perhaps it’s just a case of the editorial line being so far removed from reality that no-one buys it – literally.

  • fatbuster

    I wonder if they’d accept ads from the PSNI?

  • Levitas

    Get off Marty’s case, its a fine newspaper, much more than a provo hymn sheet, how would you describe the loyalist press then? Unionist hymnsheets, all papers are catering for a distinct market niche, I would say that the absence of govt advertising would impact any newspaper.This is not a new controversy the Morning Star has long complained of a government boycott for advertisng on political grounds even though it has been a recognised Daily paper, and audited as such , since 1930. Incidentally it is still coming out 6 days a week, with its few resources and small readership. I think you may find that DI has a few more laps in it also, much to the annoyance of the many posters on this weblog who have a pathological hatred of it, which I find amazing, since I presume the negative posters do not read it…..I suppose its just having to swallow the sheer impertinence and gall of those nasty republicans producing a daily paper-(the cheek of them!)..

  • Davros

    LOL Fatbuster 🙂

  • Dessertspoon

    Is DI a government sponsored project or is it a real newspaper created with, at least in part, the objective of making a profit from sales and the sale of ad space? If the former then fine go ahead blame the British state you hate so much for not giving you money to tell everyone how bad it is. If the latter then get off your arses and sell your newspaper like everyone else has to.

    I did buy DI a few times more out of curiosity than anything else but I did find it a bit preachy.

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    As stated elsewhere I refuse to buy the DI on the principle that it carries more proapganda than news (I’ve occasionally read it online, including today).

    Assuming that efficiency of advertising is based on the £/no. of target market reached – would it be efficient for the government to advertise in a paper who has 65% of their target market in another country?

  • Jim Bob

    “But to find its strategy was so heavily dependent upon British Government support must surely cause eyebrows to be raised.”

    Why?

    The point here surely is that all newspapers in the North are dependent on advertisiing by government and its agencies etc. All he’s asking for is a level playing field in that.

    His claim is that the British government in the form of the NIO is not advertising in his paper when they are advertising in the others. They are legally obliged to spread their advertising of course.

    And the NIO have admitted that his claim is correct because they’ve issued a statement stating why they’re not advertising in his paper.

    A Northern Ireland Office spokesman said: “A new publication must have an audited circulation figure before government can consider advertising in it.”

    As to the usual inane Unionist cries that there’s something hypocritical in seeking advertising from one of the major advertisers in their area of operation…..

    Get real!

    There’s nothing wrong in arguing against partition whilst recognising that the current reality is that you do live in a partitioned state ruled by the British.

    Seems the only sensible thing to do really…

  • Gonzo

    I often wonder why those mean-spirited Brits only gave £3m to a newspaper group opposed to Brits, I really do…

  • PS

    I find this whole hytsteria about the Daily Ireland ridiculous. I’m amazed at how genuinely offended some people are that a newspaper in the north dares to share some sympathy with the political views of the 2nd largest party in the 6 counties.

  • Davros

    Paddy – if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?

  • Jim Bob

    “I often wonder why those mean-spirited Brits only gave £3m to a newspaper group opposed to Brits, I really do…”

    These monies are allocated on a regional basis for jobs, enterprise and development.

    The whole point here is that none of this has anything to do with the sort of petty nonsense and sloganising that passes for politics within Unionism.

    If Unionist groups could focus a bit more on accessing these funds themselves rather than continually phoning agencies up whinging about what them others is getting we’d all be a lot better off.

  • Jim Bob

    “Paddy – if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    Every taxpayer in the country is financially supporting things that they as individuals wouldn’t necessarily support individually.

    The pettiness of this is just unbelievable.

  • Davros

    Jim Bob – you think any group who wants it should be entitled to millions of pounds of taxpayers money to fund a newspaper that people don’t want to buy?
    So if somebody wanted to set up a paper pushing (sic) the LVF or UDA line (sic) you think we should write them a big cheque ?

  • Handout

    Can someone please answer these questions. Is it not poor management that factors (potential/projected/wished for) government advertising as carrying one third of a workforce or is that par for the norm here?

    Bad business sense to calculate your labour costs relying on advertising bought by the government, no?

    1. Was one third of their workforce really dependent on the Irish government paying for them (via advertising)?

    2. How much did the British and/or Irish government (in various forms) give to DI to get it started?

    3. Does this mean DI is basically a government funded paper that is unsustainable without their support?

  • Idunnomeself

    the purpose of Government advertising is to communicate with people, not to support newspapers.

    There are no standard rules, most of it is not by the NIO. local papers will have local issues advertised inthem (EG planning application are in every local paper)

    NI issues are normally either in the IN, BT and NL or in the BT alone (as it has higher circulation and is read widely). But each decision is individually made.

    Cross Border issues are advertised in Irish and NI papers.

    the DI target audience doesn’t help it get advertising from NI, but they might pick up some from Ireland that the others won’t.

    It all comes down to their marketing strategy and business model.

    The ATN group have previously tried to get the NI administration to subsudise Lá by advertising in it too. They know rightly the rules and procedures, they’re just looking to cover their poor performance (and perhaps their poor business idea, although i suppose they need more time before I can judge that one fairly).

    Is Oliver Cromwell going to comment? Does he work there?

  • Handout

    Please note my questions have nothing to do with the political slant/content of DI, just the business/management/financial side of things, which have to be sound no matter what side of the political spectrum they fall on, and in this case it does not appear to have been the case.

  • Jim Bob

    To Davros

    “Jim Bob – you think any group who wants it should be entitled to millions of pounds of taxpayers money to fund a newspaper that people don’t want to buy?”

    Of course not. But that wouldn’t have been the decision that was made. These people aren’t as petty as the moaners.

    There’ll have been a certain amount of money set aside for a certain period and that will have been dependent on investment by private individuals too. The money will be available with other criteria attached and circulation within a determined period may well have been one of those.

    The point is that investment of this sort for jobs, investment and regional development is the norm. Happens all over the country.

    This Unionist pettiness reminds me of those days when all the right-wing English tabloids were screaming about one-legged Lesbian latinos getting funding that they were entitled to.

    It’s very very sad stuff.

  • Jim Bob

    “Can someone please answer these questions. Is it not poor management that factors (potential/projected/wished for) government advertising as carrying one third of a workforce or is that par for the norm here?”

    Par for the course is closer to the truth generally.

    Northern Ireland is a heavily subsidised region and that’s across the board, whether it’s in direct state jobs or in investment.

  • Handout

    But Jim Bob, the paper’s manager has pitched his tent on the paper having created jobs (via government funding?) and now is losing jobs (blaming an absence of government funding via advertising). So is DI a government funded venture or what exactly is its position when one third of the workforce is axed due to lack of government funds?

    Asking about that has nothing to do with Unionist pettiness as you put it, just trying to understand how DI planned to survive financially. For it appears that its business plan of labour costs paid for by projected government advertising was a gross error of judgement, and does not bode well for the future of the paper if the rest of its financial management and labour needs are meant to be met with wishes and hopes instead of cold, hard cash.

    You have to admit 40 odd people is a very small staff for a daily paper to begin with and to lose a third of that will make a tight situation even tighter.

    It is fair to assume that this announcement (and the reasons given for it) will spook the horses and other advertising revenue will be lost. How much is anyone’s guess but those jobs relying on even a small percentage are now on shakey ground. So what are DI’s financial plans for the future?

    Have they bitten the bullet and assumed that the desired government ads will not come through (soon enough, one guesses they have not given up pursuing them), and projected absorbtion of further advertising revenue loss, and will the leaner staff be able to be sustained in order to keep the paper going? Or is this the first in a slide of atrophy?

  • Oilbhear_Chromaill

    Davros

    Everybody pays taxes, including the workers at DI. So they and the readers of Daily Ireland are as entitled as any other daily newspaper published in the north to government advertising. If you look at the amount of govt advertising in the irish news and the newsletter as well as the telly you will see that it amounts to a significant subsidy. A level playing pitch for all is not an unreasonable expectation.

  • Davros

    OC- why are papers “entitled” to Government advertising ?
    Would they accept PSNI adverts ?

  • Jim Bob

    “But Jim Bob, the paper’s manager has pitched his tent on the paper having created jobs (via government funding?)”

    No. The usual mixture of government and private investment. Government is subsidising business across the North, It’s the norm. There are all sorts of grants and investment for all sorts of things.

    There’s government subsidy in that new Airbus for example. But there’s no guarantee that will make a profit on capital investment.

    “Asking about that has nothing to do with Unionist pettiness as you put it, just trying to understand how DI planned to survive financially.”

    If you want to do that then you could certainly have a sensible discussion about it although I doubt that we’re going to be made privy to DI’s business model. That would be the norm too. So we can only speculate.

    But most of the discussion here hasn’t been as elevated as that. It’s amounted to no more than petty Unionist whining about what “them’uns” is getting.

    As to the future of DI itself only time will tell. And, leaving aside the difficulties of any new venture, anyone can tell you that the newspaper and magazine industry is a notoriously dicey business.

  • Jim Bob

    To Davros

    “OC- why are papers “entitled” to Government advertising ?”

    Because it’s in the legislation.

  • Davros

    “Because it’s in the legislation.”

    Where ?

  • Jim Bob

    “Where?”

    In the Equality legislation. It’s quite clear that the NIO or its agencies cannot discriminate against a publication in terms of its advetising spread.

    Of course the NIO has already entered a defence stating that DI has not yet had audited circulation figures published and that’s necessary before advertising is considered.

    You can contact the Equality Commission for further information

  • kitty

    “I find this whole hytsteria about the Daily Ireland ridiculous. I’m amazed at how genuinely offended some people are that a newspaper in the north dares to share some sympathy with the political views of the 2nd largest party in the 6 counties.”

    The pettiness of the Unionist bloggers on here is mind-boggling! Why should any group, including Republicans have a voice through press. It is absolutely astounding that people who POSE as neutral or fair-minded have so much to say about a newspaper.
    I buy Daily Ireland every day for two reasons 1- I wish to support a Republican press effort and 2- Because it actually does have some excellent views on important issues, not just in Ireland, but from around the world. Issues, mind you, that some of YOU lot seem to actually agree with Daily Ireland on- Iraq, US misuse of power, Israel etc etc.
    So you see Unionist bloggers, or those in disguise, the only diagreement you have with Daily Ireland is its cover of Irish politics. If it is so right on every other issue, but wrong on Ireland, maybe they are not wrong at all- it is YOU who are mistaken and hypocritical as well.
    A final note- Older people do not buy DI because of death notices- believe it or not. Older people that I know and have discussed the new paper with say yes it is a good wee paper, but the only thing, or the first thing I read in the paper, is the death notices. DI has a limited page of death notices, mostly deaths in the Belfast area. Simple reason- but true.
    As for the bigotry of certain bloggers here- you would be the FIRST to cry out in your liberal stance- FREE PRESS – let every group have their voice, but in this case you are attempting to hide your bigotry behind a money issue, LOL Tax Payments. Laughable to say the least. Where are your cries of MY TAX MONEY when British Troops and the ‘security apparatus ‘ of NI is costing you MILLIONS!

  • Chris Gaskin

    “if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    They shouldn’t

  • kitty

    Incidentally, I would welcome a Loyalist newspaper, fudning from whatever source. the Loyalist people have no voice- like their politicians, the Unionist press seems to have deserted them!

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Implicit in this complaint is that the business plan assumed a level of state support through advertising which has not been delivered. For a publication with an avowedly anti-state editorial line, the logic behind the assumption seems eccentric to say the least.

    Also puzzling is the implication that the NIO has a duty to advertise for the benefit of the publication, rather than put forward an argument that it will benefit by reaching an audience not presently reached by its advertising spend. One obvious question to ask is whether or not it is a 6 or 32 county publication. It claims to be the latter, but if this is so then why would it attract NIO spending any more than the Indo or the IT, neither of which would expect such patronage. If this compliant is a tacit acceptance that it remains essentially a northen paper, then what function does it serve that might not equally well have been addressed by the ATN going daily?

  • kitty

    if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    They shouldn’t

    Why Not? Do Government subsidies support other newspapers? Or other areas that provide employment? Do factories get subsidies for setting up? From my experience most businesses get government subsidies in one form or another for setting up a business, particularly those business that provide employment.
    What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.
    It is obvious that a paper with a dissenting voice is what has you all riled- “How dare those Republicans have their own daily newspaper? Just who do they think they are!!!!!”

  • spark

    I resent my rates being used to fund loyalist bonfires.

  • Jim Bob

    “Implicit in this complaint is that the business plan assumed a level of state support through advertising which has not been delivered.”

    It’s not state support. It’s state advertising within the market in which they’re operating. Because NI is a basket case subvention economy a sizable share of the advertising will be from state or semi-state agencies. If you’re discriminated against by the state then you’ll lose out with reference to your competitors.

    “For a publication with an avowedly anti-state editorial line, the logic behind the assumption seems eccentric to say the least.”

    Why? Government services etc are as much used by those who take an anti-partition line as a pro-partition line.

    “Also puzzling is the implication that the NIO has a duty to advertise for the benefit of the publication, rather than put forward an argument that it will benefit by reaching an audience not presently reached by its advertising spend.”

    That’s related to the circulation issue and a potential increase in that. It’s more to do with the future than the present. But if there were signs that the NIO was to ban DI from its advertising portfolio then that’s a case that could be made against them.

    “One obvious question to ask is whether or not it is a 6 or 32 county publication.”

    Not really. It’s obvious that you would expect its circulation to centre in the North, at least initially.

  • kitty

    “I resent my rates being used to fund loyalist bonfires.”

    Yes, the same logic, isn’t it!
    Absolutely transparent, the ‘neutral’ bloggers here crying about their tax money. And their wee apologists coming up the rear with agreement. Hilarious.

  • PatMcLarnon

    Government advertising in the main relates to employment opportunities among other things. Given that these people already advertise in two unionist newspapers and only one nationalist newspaper in the interests of fair employment opportunities Daily Ireland is entitled to ask for fair play in advertising if only to ensure fair representation in the field of public sector employment.

  • JD

    Surely if the issue is one of equal treatment, I cannot see why anyone has a problem with what O’Muilleor is saying. Especially given the reliance of so much on the state’s teat in NI.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    I absolutely accept that publications should be treated equally, but is it being suggested that the NIO is not entitled to take the view that advertising in the DI, for all the reasons suggested above, may not be the most effective use of its resources? Also, not having seen a hard copy, I’d be interested to know whether or not the NIO is noticeable by its absence or, as some have suggested, is it struggling to convince advertisers in general?

  • Handout

    My concern is that labour costs were figured on projected advertising revenue that was not secured. This does not bode well for the future of the paper, period, no politics about that.

    Regardless of whether everyone else is doing it, once the advertising did not materialise it is hardly going to be attractive to other advertisers to claim that because the government did not advertise the paper could not sustain a sizeable chunk of its staff.

    Only so many advertisers are going to be sympathetic to pleas of taking up government slack and those advertisers are likely already sewn up; they will hardly be brand new advertisers coming to the rescue on the heels of this news.

    So now DI is faced with the problem that it appears it does not have the staff it needs to sustain growth; it does not have the advertising base it needs to sustain growth; and it does not have the circulation it needs to sustain advertisers. Most importantly, as advertising is a current problem, it does not present an investment oppoturnity that is likely to attract new advertisers and the forecast for DI’s ability to turn this around is glum.

    This is why I question the soundness of the business plan to begin with. It does not appear to have been well thought out.

  • JD

    Is it good policy for the NIO to ignore the DI readership? Are they not the group of people in NI that need most “courting” by the NIO?

  • Sol

    Handout
    Most businesses in NI rely heavily on government subsidies (tax breaks etc.) to get them up and running.
    However, I do wonder much income was the DI expecting to generate via government advertising?I doubt that it would be enough to cover 1/3 or whatever workers wages.
    Its not like when you open the BT or IT the government advertising is “hanging out of them”.
    It does seem like a slightly flawed business plan.

  • Handout

    Sol, this is the reason given for losing 12 out of 40 odd staff — government advertising or rather, lack of it. It does seem as though something is amiss if the business plan figured that 1/3 of the staff would be paid for by such revenue, or if a revised business plan determines that because of a lack of government advertising, the paper cannot afford to retain 1/3 of its staff.

    Something (obviously) is not right in management’s handling of financial planning.

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    “There’s nothing wrong in arguing against partition whilst recognising that the current reality is that you do live in a partitioned state ruled by the British.”

    The DI doesn’t recognise it though – when was the last time they used the term ‘Northern Ireland’? The only time the DI, like the population of West Belfast (according to WARN!), recognise the state is when there is money to be had out of it!

    I have one or two questions that I would like to be answered in order to inform my opinion (which, at present, is ‘Why the hell should the government fund this paper?’)

    How many millions went into this paper from public coffers?

    Is that really worth the creation of 40 (now fewer) jobs? There’s a new call centre opening in Springvale, I think, the journalists can try in there.

    Did the government help fund the Daily View?

  • Sol

    Handout
    I know, you have valid points with which I agree.
    How much revenue is generated by govt. advertising? hardly enough to cover 1/3 of the workers.
    Perhaps its time to change the management of the paper.

  • Handout

    If the paper does fold, it will be interesting to see how much money it has actually lost, how many millions.

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    “Where are your cries of MY TAX MONEY when British Troops and the ‘security apparatus ‘ of NI is costing you MILLIONS!”

    Kitty I agree that that is an outrage. Unfortuantely when the state has suffered 30 years of terrorist attacks that expenditure is unavoidable, this is not, so your comparison is not legitimate.

  • Davros

    In the Equality legislation. It’s quite clear that the NIO or its agencies cannot discriminate against a publication in terms of its advetising spread.

    Where ? The Government doesn’t have to put advertising in everything that’s printed in NI.

  • Davros

    I wonder if they rejected Government advertising for the PSNI ?

  • beano; EverythingUlster.com

    I think I should be looking for government advertising for EverythingUlster.com

  • Davros

    Davros: if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    Chris Gaskin: They shouldn’t

    Kitty: Why Not? Do Government subsidies support other newspapers? Or other areas that provide employment? Do factories get subsidies for setting up? From my experience most businesses get government subsidies in one form or another for setting up a business, particularly those business that provide employment.
    What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.

    1) Chris Gaskin a Unionist apologist ? 😉

    2) The ATN group is already subbed – What’s at issue is whether a lame duck paper should continue to be subsidised …..

    3) Mairtin O Muilleoir is not a poor man- let him fund his own paper

    “Fury At Community Newspaper Funding”

  • Sol

    People losing jobs is bad for the WHOLE economy, new management team is required.

    Beano
    That seems like easy money. After reading whats involved maybe I should start my own paper.
    Circulation = 3, me, the missus + cat.

  • Sol

    citizen kane type empire all in my own front room

  • Billy Pilgrim

    I think the point should be made that Northern Ireland’s economy is structured in such a way that any large enterprise that is excluded from tendering from public expenditure is in big trouble.

    FFS, two thirds of the economy is controlled by the public sector, yet as has been alluded to earlier, there are no actual criteria laid down for how public money is spent. Nor is there a formal tendering process. It’s just left to our intrepid civil servants to know best.

    I suggest some posters here take a look at a copy of the Irish News from 15 years ago or so. You’ll find there isn’t a hint of public sector advertising – an outrageous state of affairs for the second highest selling paper in the north. The Irish News fought that battle over many years and eventually secured not only its right to public sector advertising but also legislation protecting nationalist newspapers from the ignorance of unionist civil servants for whom only the Telegraph exists.

    (Since it won that battle and gained access to the 65% of the economy it was previously excluded from, the Irish News has become by far the best paper in the north – there’s a lesson there.)

    Jimmy: re your point on whether DI is a 6 or 32 paper.

    It doesn’t matter – it’s based in Belfast, so is a UK-based company and therefore entitled to be treated as a UK company – unlike the Dublin-based examples you suggested.

  • Sol

    intrepid civil servants…
    LOL

  • kitty

    “Chris Gaskin a Unionist apologist ? ;)”

    Interesting that YOU ask that, or even thought that!!!
    Now the point is where did I say that?

    “2) The ATN group is already subbed – What’s at issue is whether a lame duck paper should continue to be subsidised …..”

    Lame duck? your slip is showing:-)

    “3) Mairtin O Muilleoir is not a poor man- let him fund his own paper”

    How do YOU know anything about Mairtin O Muilleoir’s personal finances?
    ( But I do note you do give him his chosen name! Your progress gets a D-! Now what is the name of the lad in charge of the Garvaghy Rd protest? LOL)
    Vera Duckworth said this evening ‘ Now I know how the Birmingham Six felt. Classic corrie moment wasn’t it?

  • kitty

    “Where are your cries of MY TAX MONEY when British Troops and the ‘security apparatus ‘ of NI is costing you MILLIONS!”

    Beano- “Kitty I agree that that is an outrage. Unfortuantely when the state has suffered 30 years of terrorist attacks that expenditure is unavoidable, this is not, so your comparison is not legitimate.”

    Maybe from your perspective it is not legitimate. That does not mean it is not legitimate. There is nothing about NI that IS legitimate, not even its ‘security apparatus.’ Think about this if you can, your TAX were used to pay RUC ‘officers’ who colluded with Loyalist death squads, do you object to that usage of your tax money?
    This is all bigotry plain and simple, dress it up any way you want- the comments on this board regarding this issue reveal the Unionist mindset for what it is.

  • Davros

    “Chris Gaskin a Unionist apologist ? ;)”

    Interesting that YOU ask that, or even thought that!!!
    Now the point is where did I say that?

    You directly quoted him and followed it with

    “What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue!”

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Billy,

    The Irish News point is well made, but you point out the distinguishing factor. SFAIK it has at least (depending on whose figures you believe) five times the circulation of DI. Perhaps (and others perhaps may be able to help), the DI ratecard is significantly lower. Is the NIO obliged to advertise in a paper which is not widely read? My point about its coverage was simply this: why would the NIO be advertising in the Republic? It seems unlikely that the department would have much need to advertise outside NI.

    Some posters have suggested Mr. O Muilleoir subsidise the venture himself. My understanding of his earlier remarks was that he was a nominee shareholder for beneficiaries whose identities he was unwilling to disclose. Is this incorrect?

  • Davros

    This is the Post in full 🙂

    if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    They shouldn’t

    Why Not? Do Government subsidies support other newspapers? Or other areas that provide employment? Do factories get subsidies for setting up? From my experience most businesses get government subsidies in one form or another for setting up a business, particularly those business that provide employment.
    What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.
    It is obvious that a paper with a dissenting voice is what has you all riled- “How dare those Republicans have their own daily newspaper? Just who do they think they are!!!!!”

    Posted by: kitty at April 29, 2005 05:31 PM

    This is the post you were quoting and replying to :

    “if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    They shouldn’t

    Posted by: Chris Gaskin at April 29, 2005 04:52 PM

  • kitty

    “”Chris Gaskin a Unionist apologist ? ;)”

    Interesting that YOU ask that, or even thought that!!!
    Now the point is where did I say that?

    You directly quoted him and followed it with

    “What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue!” “

    I followed it one parapgraph later. Nowhere did I state the lad was anything. Anything! And that’s how that will remain. Your spoon won’t stir this one.

  • kitty

    You do understand the concept of paragraphs, Davros?
    Indeed it is how I posted it, thanks, now look up paragraph. Thata boy. Cause it isn’t stirring me.:-)

    This is the Post in full 🙂

    if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    They shouldn’t

    Why Not? Do Government subsidies support other newspapers? Or other areas that provide employment? Do factories get subsidies for setting up? From my experience most businesses get government subsidies in one form or another for setting up a business, particularly those business that provide employment.
    What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.
    It is obvious that a paper with a dissenting voice is what has you all riled- “How dare those Republicans have their own daily newspaper? Just who do they think they are!!!!!”

    Posted by: kitty at April 29, 2005 05:31 PM

  • kitty

    Now when you put down your wee spoon Davros, ahem, could you address this?

    3) Mairtin O Muilleoir is not a poor man- let him fund his own paper”

    How do YOU know anything about Mairtin O Muilleoir’s personal finances?
    ( But I do note you do give him his chosen name! Your progress gets a D-! Now what is the name of the lad in charge of the Garvaghy Rd protest? LOL)

  • Chris Gaskin

    So Kitty, I am a Unionist apologist

    Forgive me if I don’t model my Republicanism on someone like you.

    Do you know how stupid you seem when you label me a Unionist?

    I have constantly stated on these boards that I don’t support government funding of any media source.

    I buy, read and support DI.

    My views may be different from others but thankfully Sinn Féin don’t have ideological sheep.

    You know you are entitled to uour own view

    I also disagree with positive discrimination i.e. 50/50

    Religion doesn’t come in to my perspective.

    Don’t throw stones Kitty or I will be forced to throw back and believe me when I say you wouldn’t like that.

  • Davros

    No Kitty – you were replying to Chris’s post when you wrote :

    “Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.”!

    If you had been replying to my post then why quote Chris ? LOL

  • kitty

    “So Kitty, I am a Unionist apologist”

    So Davros seems to think!

    “Forgive me if I don’t model my Republicanism on someone like you.”

    You know nothing about me and it will stay that way.

    “Do you know how stupid you seem when you label me a Unionist?”

    Might want to talk to Davros about that! Stupid? Hmmmm well if you say so.

    “I have constantly stated on these boards that I don’t support government funding of any media source.”

    Good for you.

    “I buy, read and support DI. “

    As do I. What do you want- a medal?

    “My views may be different from others but thankfully Sinn Féin don’t have ideological sheep. “

    Indeed they don’t. What a pity you fail to make that argument here when others say we are all sheep!

    “You know you are entitled to uour own view

    I also disagree with positive discrimination i.e. 50/50″

    Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I an the other hand agree 100% with the concept- afirmative action etc. have been important in righting wrongs in many areas of the world.

    “Religion doesn’t come in to my perspective.”

    Nor mine.

    “Don’t throw stones Kitty or I will be forced to throw back and believe me when I say you wouldn’t like that.”

    LOL throw away child, you have nothing to throw.

  • kitty

    Davros, first you pointed out this was my post in its entirety!
    “This is the Post in full 🙂

    if your supporters won’t buy it why should my taxes subsidise it ?”

    They shouldn’t

    Why Not? Do Government subsidies support other newspapers? Or other areas that provide employment? Do factories get subsidies for setting up? From my experience most businesses get government subsidies in one form or another for setting up a business, particularly those business that provide employment.
    What absolute rubbish Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.
    It is obvious that a paper with a dissenting voice is what has you all riled- “How dare those Republicans have their own daily newspaper? Just who do they think they are!!!!!”

    Posted by: kitty at April 29, 2005 05:31 PM”

    THEN YOU POST

    “No Kitty – you were replying to Chris’s post when you wrote :

    “Unionists and their apologists have written here on the issue! It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.It is simply you exercising your deep seated bigotry and using the Tax excuse to do so.”!”

    Ah you DON’T understand the concept of paragraphs. Well look it up before making a fool out of yourself, in the future.

    Now explain to us all why you cut out half the post in your second contribution? Stir away.

    Will you answer this-
    you wrote-3) Mairtin O Muilleoir is not a poor man- let him fund his own paper”

    I asked- How do YOU know anything about Mairtin O Muilleoir’s personal finances?
    ( But I do note you do give him his chosen name! Your progress gets a D-! Now what is the name of the lad in charge of the Garvaghy Rd protest? LOL)

    Answer……………?

  • minesapint

    All newspapers should be self-funding. If someone wants to start a paper without the cash to fund it it would need to have a broad appeal -Why should it be funded?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Lot of rubbish being talked on this thread.

    “Most businesses in NI rely heavily on government subsidies (tax breaks etc.) to get them up and running.”

    Complete and total rubbish. There are no tax breaks for any businesses in Northern Ireland that do not exist throughout the UK, though there should be. Only a small number of companies – usually foreign investors – receive subsidies from the state. Local companies can receive assistance from the state. Invest NI (formerly the IDB) will usually only give you money in exchange for shares in your company, and understandably most businesses are rather reluctant to have clueless bureaucrats interfering with their business decisions.

    Chris G, I’ve been labelled as a unionist by you before, even though I’m not. I hope you have learned a lesson. I’m also a little confused by something else you’ve said. First you say you agree with positive discrimination. Then you contradict yourself and say that religion does not come into your perspective. If you choose to blind yourself to someone’s religion – a laudable idea – then how can you discriminate against them, positively or negatively ?

    To the main point, the fact that a significant number of people on this thread seem to believe that the government is required to prop up every single silly little publication that comes out on the basis of cross-community support shows that an awful lot of people seem to think that the business cycle and business decisions need to be dominated by concerns over perceived equality issues. It’s a rather rude awakening at a time I was beginning to think that people in Northern Ireland might be starting to look outside of their sectarian tribal mindsets and try to understand the big picture in the world they live in. Folks, if a business needs government funding to stay up then it is a waste of money. It’s true of MG Rover, it’s true of the Daily Ireland. It would also be true of the News Letter.

    Why exactly *should* Martin O’Millions and his shareholders be entitled to get rich through government subsidy instead of, for example, the money being spent on schools, hospitals and training to get more people into work and make NI more competitive ?

  • Sol

    Comrade,
    Are you disagreeing with me/agreeing with me, or agreeing with part of what I said?
    To come out and say what I said was rubbish, then tell me it happens is perplexing.
    Regards
    Sol

  • Belfast Dissenter

    When I read the deadpan account of this in today’s Irish News I just laughed out loud at the irony of it all. The Brit-bashing paper wants more dosh from the Brits!

    I do occasionly buy the Daily Ireland and notice that it is quite thin. There aren’t too many advertisments in it at all, never mind British government ones.

    It is well designed – quite like The Independent – but there the similarity ends. To me there is too much editorialising in what ought to be straight news stories. Fair enough if you want to read a propaganda sheet, I suppose. You certainly can’t accuse the ATN group of lacking chutzpah!

  • toby

    cs

    “Chris G, I’ve been labelled as a unionist by you before, even though I’m not.”

    What are your political preferances(i’m just curious,not trying to be confrontational)

    What would your preferance be electorally,

    if its not too personal a question to ask

  • Chris Gaskin

    “Comrade Stalin”

    “Chris G, I’ve been labelled as a unionist by you before,”

    When??????

    “First you say you agree with positive discrimination”

    Learn to read, I disagree with “positive” discrimination.